The First Mafia: Game Over

[SpyreX]

Well huzzah.
Dgb had me full blinders.

Why would you not claim your actual role name

[Errantparabola]

Thats a shame.
Good show, mafia- you certainly outplayed me

[mykonian]

First of all, many thanks to the replacements, in no particular order: EP, Spyrex, CES, Farside, and DGB. You helped keep this game going and despite having to catch up, proved to be strong players in this game.

As for the game itself, design wise this was a struggle. If town gets the show on the road, they have an immune player and virtual double day, as the towns nightkill is hard to actually stop. This game basically got as close as it could to taking out that town power, and scum needed some fortune and good reads to achieve that. So on the one hand, town could be oppressive, on the other hand scum did still have 4 members (which assuming a near double day setup, was a good template to start from, town got 4 miskills before they lost, town would have to hit slightly below 50% to get to a 3p lylo. Given the immunity, still some significant power was needed. Snarky's role was born from the fact that a strong information role could be fun, but innocent reports would make the leadership vote boring, and a plain watcher could get silly when targetting someone designated by the leader (as the watcher would instantly know most, if not all, soldiers). The reviewers were worried about the politician, but for flavour reasons and the fact that there were two votes each day, I pushed that through, hoping that the person getting it would get more enjoyment out of it than the person losing their vote. I hope I didn't inconvenience Katsuki and Petroleumjelly too much, there. I'm sorry in that case.

Given recent md discussion, we honestly tried to make the game (by feeling) townsided, hoping to end up with a better game that way. Sadly town could not put up too much of a fight.

In terms of play, day 1 was fine. Nothing weird going on, and even a scum was lynched. Town seemed to be off to a good start. I don't know what happened day 2, and from reading what scum posted, PJ and later CES seemed to be similarly confused. I think I spotted a couple of PJ's posts where he was trying to sound reasonable, while being very confused about where the town was taking this. Between equinox wanting to get rid of leader, the butting of heads, the fake guilty that was always kept in the discussion, somehow picking a scummy looking player as leader because it was deemed a risk, and then the decision to kill Equinox's slot, town managed to take themselves out of the game here, I feel. Probably didn't help that activity dropped drastically. Idk, that saddened me. I thought that scum could come back from losing one member, even if town had continued as day 1 had gone discussion wise, and it could have been a real fight. But that wasn't meant to be.

In the end, scum worked together, were actively thinking how they could mess with town, and managed to stay out of trouble. They got everything right, and a very deserved victory is theirs!

[SnarkySnowman]

I FUCKING KNEW CES WAS SCUM ASDOFSDAKGLKDFSGDAFKNGMVADS

[Equinox]

Good game, and well-played to the scum team.

Sorry for replacing out.

[Errantparabola]

I live under only one philosophical tenet-
If Equinox has done it, then it must be the right thing to do

So no need to be sorry

Thanks for modding dearest mykonian <3

[Bulbazak]

You were missed Equinox, but I don't think it mattered one way or the other.

[McMenno]

le happy viplin

[petroleumjelly]

Downtime post from work.

1.)

Thanks for the game, all. Special thanks to the replacements and mykonian. And hey, we kept it under 50 pages. Probably could have been shorter, but Day Two dragged on after the Leader election and the string of replacements.

2.)

As for the set-up, the sheer amount of kills available definitely favors the Town. I

do

think moderators

should

as a rule balance in favor of Towns because set-ups tend to play out more in favor of scum. But this may have crossed the arbitrary line a bit – a Town Leader who (effectively) cannot be removed can completely destroy a scumteam even if the Town is not very accurate. Had the Leader executed Night One (for example), Town would have gotten a seventh (!) kill in three days. And if two of those kills had hit scum (instead of just one), we would have been put into a 5-player endgame with 3 Town v 2 Scum. While that normally means “LyLo,” the presence of a Politician, a Back-Up Politician, and perhaps most importantly, a Roleblocker, means that Town had multiple scenarios where they might have gotten an additional Day even with a miskill.

Granted I was never sure under what conditions the game would actually

end

. For example: was 2 v 2 sufficient, or did we

also

have to be in control of votes? The scum Role PM indicated that we could only win if nothing could prevent it… and having a stolen vote (allowing Town to hit three votes for a lynch) followed by a correct Execution would technically let Town win such a scenario. And so on.

Overall, though, I think given that how the set-up would play out was hazy, mykonian did an okay job of trying to hit a balance. I would have just taken it easy on the above-mentioned roles that are especially difficult for scum to maneuver around in endgame, perhaps by limiting their uses or giving scum at least one way to wiggle.

3.)

I

do not

like the Politician role.

->

a.)

For some players (especially Vanilla Town), the most influential thing they can do in a game is to cast a vote, and casting a vote is the heart of playing mafia. Taking it away from a player feels against the spirit. I particularly do not understand how a vote can be “stolen” when the stealer is dead; the vote should just revert back to normal. (Not that I minded – it allowed me to more ineffectually ‘defend’ Katsuki/UpTooLate/SnarkySnowman and ‘attack’ DrippingGoofball, all while playing ignorant).
->

b.)

With one less vote available, the requirements for Leader/lynching should have been treated as though there were eight players alive. A missing vote

could

have made it impossible for Town to reach a supermajority to change the Leader, as an example. (On Day Three, Town needed six out of eight available votes to change the Leader. Had Bulbazak stolen a Townsperson’s vote and the three scum silently refused to help, a Leader change would have been impossible… except perhaps to elect a scum Leader).

4.)

If anything is taken from this game, I hope it is that lying as Town should be heavily discouraged. Even little white lies can add up. If you want to change the state of a game, you should argue for it – not lie to get it. Townspeople should not have to go through the thought process of “this person lied to everybody – are they still Town?” The only liars in a game should be scum.

[Katsuki]

DGB was obvscum and I had a scumread on CES due to EP flip, pity.

Well played PJ.

You broke my heart Spyspy </3

Mykonian, if you think that bulbazak was anything but scum MVP then you're fucking delusional I have no idea what to say.

[mykonian]

Sorry about the politician, in that case.

As for the kills, the 2nd kill the leader could take can be effective (if scum made a play for leader), but usually would be a bit of a trap, the person voted towards leader probably was considered town by most people. If scum did become leader, town having a bonus after wouldn't be bad, as they were probably in quite a bad position. So 6 kills by day 3 would be normal, 7 probably included at least one antitown kill (be that scum being leader, or leader taking a clear townie out).

The vote for leader was affected by how much support he got from the soldiers. The fact that 2/3's was needed every time was because the majority of the soldiers agreed with every decision made (including the kill on EP). Should scum become leader, town had ways of removing them even with a missing vote (but would need support from the town soldiers).

[Katsuki]

Oh ya bulb what you mentioned in the dead QT about trying to figure this game out is fucking hysterical.

Let's examine your dumbfuck logic

1. Your priority D1 was proving your fucking vote steal, and to boot you decide to steal it from the player who forced a quicklynch on scum.
2. That alone is like ok fine this person's just dumb. You then decide to push a player as "obviously scum" for quicklynching their buddy D1, and killing off their biggest ally N1?

Not once did you try to "figure" this game out. Your only goal this game was pushing a personal grudge of yours and ruining the entire fucking game in the process. Then you tried to make it personal.

Like actually get fucked, you're a waste of air.

[Katsuki]

Well huzzah.
Dgb had me full blinders.

Why would you not claim your actual role name

Trust me on DGB always T^T

Just like how people should trust me on you

[DrippingGoofball]

PJ & CES was like my scum dream team LOL

[kraska77]

Not surprised to see equinox almost executed me...I played pretty badly (also *hugs*). I found the game pretty awkward day 1 and my posting reflected that
Scjm team played well

And @mod sorry for replacing out. I just couldn't play after sleepykrews immature shit

[Bulbazak]

4.)

If anything is taken from this game, I hope it is that lying as Town should be heavily discouraged. Even little white lies can add up. If you want to change the state of a game, you should argue for it – not lie to get it. Townspeople should not have to go through the thought process of “this person lied to everybody – are they still Town?” The only liars in a game should be scum.

This. The abundant fake claims definitely muddied the waters, and Katsuki lying in general d2 paved the way for an easy scum victory. The minute he faked the guilty and then lied about a message that was 100% confirmable, the stage was already set for the end of the game. All that happened at that point was the town following the script that was layed out and scum just letting them. I probably could have still done something at the beginning of d2 to try to steer it another way, but along with wanting to use my own role, not trusting Katsuki with his own vote, wanting to test out the validity of Equinox's claim, and knowing that me vs. Kats would have to be settled in either him dying or both of us dying, I helped facilitate everything. I do think given those circumstances I made the best overall play of making sure that was taken care of and not making it to endgame, but there were just too many variables that I didn't understand to realize how catastrophic those early moments ended up being for town.

@Katsuki: Stop it. Seriously. Stop. First of all, the scum victory is all due to your constant lying and taking matters into your own hands. There's no one else to blame here. At that point I was only trying to do the best thing game-wise and keep the confusion from affecting the rest of the game, because YOU made me vs. you the priority of d2. I spent most of that day just trying to ensure that was taken care of so that wouldn't be a problem near the end of the game (And guess what, it was.). Second, it's hilarious that you're trying to say I was holding a grudge against you when it was YOU that came after me, and it was YOU that made a point of doing this 2 games in a row and trying to make my life miserable to the point that I was wondering if I had ran over your dog or something. If I had foreseen there being a problem, I would have just have /outed like I did when ABR signed up, because I didn't want to be utterly miserable while playing this game. But for some reason, I didn't anticipate a narcissist targeting and slandering me and making this game a living hell. Third, let's look at what you did vs. what I did. That d1 scum lynch? It was a policy lynch, and you trying to take credit for that is hilarious. For me, the fact that the lynch went through so quickly was evidence of scum uber-bussing, because the way it happened was wrong. You just stroked your own ego and took credit for something that happened because of town annoyance and where you really had little to do with the outcome. Then on d2 you did absolutely nothing outside of lying and then lurked for the rest of the day. D3 included more lying about actions, and when town caught you with your pants down, they rightly lynched you for it. And furthermore, you self voted and let them do it. Overall, you had zero effect on the outcome of the entire game, and the most you did was hinder and work against the town, essentially forcing their hands. Meanwhile, I spent the whole game sorting people and trying to ascertain the motivation behind their actions. And especially on d2, I was very open with my thought process. I highlighted why I had town reads on Hiplop, Snarky, and at the end, Ducks. I broke down my reasoning on certain reads, and while I would have liked to have more behind them, I was working with what little I had, knowing that I was unlikely to get more due to dying. At the end of the day, I did wagon analysis and broke down what that likely meant. I then gave my final thoughts on every single person in the game and why my reads were the way they were. I highlighted where I was conflicted but why I then came to my conclusions. And on you, I highlighted not only my conflictions with you, but why you flipping scum was the best case scenario, because you being town highlighted that you were just a horrible human being that had been allowed to do this for so long that you could put games in jeopardy and attack other players and yet feel nothing as you wouldn't be punished for it. And then you ignored all of that only to attack me on the final paragraph and ensure that it would be easy for town to never look or consider my final thoughts and reads. And then, when I was in the dead PT, I continued to scum hunt and revise reads. I moved away from UTL after I saw her claim and knew there was no way she'd do that as scum. I continued to try to figure things out. What did you do? You insulted me and the mod and acted as if it wasn't your fault that the game ended the way it did. You disgust me. Stay away from my games.

[SpyreX]

DGB was obvscum and I had a scumread on CES due to EP flip, pity.

Well played PJ.

You broke my heart Spyspy </3

Mykonian, if you think that bulbazak was anything but scum MVP then you're fucking delusional I have no idea what to say.

Well if d3 you were not so busy maybe it would have went a bit better. I didn't think you were scum and the twilight really made me think about the game state. I got a little distracted by u2l and farside but man.

I think it would have been so easy without the eq kill i just couldn't wrap my head around that. :/ i would have actively fought for your not lynch.

And i didn't think that was a game over place i should have thought it through more.

Of course me bring the choice losing the politician hurts too

[McMenno]

I'll get the popcorn

[SpyreX]

No thanks. Just stop both of you it does 0 good

[Bulbazak]

I've said my peace. As long as he stays away from any game I'm in, I'm good.

[UpTooLate]

Good game guys. Thanks for modding, Myko!

Sorry I was completely worthless Day 2.

[lalaladucks]

I FUCKING KNEW DGB WAS SCUM ASDOFSDAKGLKDFSGDAFKNGMVADS

[farside22]

Well that's, that. Day 2 was by far the worst thing to see.
From an outside prospective on bulba vs kats. Kats saw bulba scum from jump and no matter what he said or did kats was calling bulba scum.
The EP kill is one of the worse choices.
Ces was barely a blip for me, good job.
Dgb have to say great replacement job there.

[Killthestory]

my worst game yet, but i had some amount of fun before i was mercilessly ended

[SpyreX]

Ces and pj were more likely to me than you and utl. I should have been harder on them not coming out with the soldier stuff.

I have regrets