STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb: Ah, I figured it was communicated enough via wincon of removing 'Earth-aligned' players.

Ummm.

Our win con was equal or exceed remaining players.

Not remove earth-aligned.
Had that been the case, yes, it would have been clear...but that wasn't the case.

[Cerberus v666]

Ph, you mean he fact that the towns win con required survival of am earth aligned.

That's not sufficient. All that does ia tell us there's another faction that could remove the last scum while no town live(which actually makes It misleading, because no such faction existed).

[Varsoon]

D'oh. Now I feel like a chump.
For some reason, I thought I built it such that it was like:
You win if you have equal numbers or higher to non-scum,
or You win if all town (earth) are eliminated from the game.

That's what I intended, regardless.
I think it's only evident in this iteration by actually realizing the CG's get end-gamed when no Town players are left.

[SirCakez]

Ya Varsoon I'm excited to see how your smaller games go
The size seems to be the biggest reason why your Larges tend to be swingy

[SirCakez]

Also there were no modkills! That's always good.

[McMenno]

sircakez I hope you're prepared to get hypertunnelled in every single game we play in together

[Titus]

@Titus: whether you or mastin won was immaterial. We chose mastin purely for the sake of consistency in the plan I had outlined to you and yume.

It was though, and you should have aborted when I objected and you knew or should have know I was triggerring my IC. You did get Mastina a win, but at the expense of revealing a scum mastermind.

If you said, Titus will confirm herself as town most likely, we should elect Titus en masse and play to her pride, town gets a lot less info. Mastina looks better and thus I compromise onto Snarky/town faster, rather than leading a DGB lynch. There's also less data on numbers with split wagons. We had a three pronged equation with the division instead of there are x many group scum.

The beachapalooza vote division was meaningless. It ended up being useless because of the NC/Farside votes(which we expected, btw. Not them exactly, but that some alliance would make the floor 5 votes). Matin was right that it was never used to lynch someone, and it never could have been used.

Seriously, the event wasn't important other than giving mastin a gunsmith.

Revealing that there was a "mastermind" also wasn't important. None of the arguments against us that were substantial were based on that. Mastin tried a bit in the midgame, but it wasn't a threat.
The eventual choice she made was based off of her inability to absorb all the information available fast enough. I'm quote confident that had she had the time to actually respond to everything drixx was saying, and read through the rest of the game, she wouldn't have voted for us.


Granred, this is all hindsight. It's possible that it would have been BETTER to handle beachapalooza differently, but I don't believe it hurt us in any significant fashion.

I think you're wrong.

With the beachpalooza, we got solid math.

7 on Mastina
6 on Titus
5 on Not Chara

Anyone not in the loop usually votes to give conftown power. If you had decided to follow me as an IC, we likely would get

13 on Titus
5 on Not Chara

While this practically eliminates Farside as group scum in a day or two at most, the closest thing scum gets is an approximate number of players. The no submissions even throw that off. We know that for every scum that voted, someone must say no vote, but a significant number of town no voted. We'd be lynching in the no-voters for days, with flips revealing relatively little. Only when town felt confident in the bottom pool, would they turn to you in the top. This does not reveal a mastermind or a planner at all.

The split that we did get, suggested there was a coordinated effort AGAINST an IC and quickly revealed which players were on the inside and versus the outside. An IC always feels that they will win such an event. I made several proclaimations to that effect that I'd be winning and was genuinely shocked when I did not win, given my skill as a gunsmith. (Speaking of which Mastina, ALWAYS lynch a GS guilty if they claim vig that never shot. ALWAYS.) In order to have the votes match and not reveal that the gems and scum agreed on Mastina, the votes in the scum chat had to be planned. Thus, Mastermind and two pools to work with that had to add up to a certain number rather than 1.

Eventually, the math would have narrowed down with the flips to where only certain slots could be scum. I think Mastina reaches a comfortable solution faster if they factored this math in. This math is why I resisted your wagon D2, even though it was mostly if not all town.

[Carnelian]

Carny here, whoop shoop da snoop loop chicken coop

[Cerberus v666]

Skimmed your last post once I reached the part where it fell apart....namely, where Yune and mastin both vote for her, which is something I couldn't control. The floor is set at 2 5s. It's the same situation, with a pool of non voters and a pool of voters.

[Cerberus v666]

D'oh. Now I feel like a chump.
For some reason, I thought I built it such that it was like:
You win if you have equal numbers or higher to non-scum,
or You win if all town (earth) are eliminated from the game.

That's what I intended, regardless.
I think it's only evident in this iteration by actually realizing the CG's get end-gamed when no Town players are left.

Yeah, and that's something that only someone extremely mechanics and balance minded would even suspect, and which would NEVER be known for certain.

[SirCakez]

sircakez I hope you're prepared to get hypertunnelled in every single game we play in together

y

[Cerberus v666]

Holy shit epic length dead thread.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna is an example of the worst shit on this site. The people with older join dates are always trying to tell people how to play and are super preachy judgy assholes to newer people. It's like gigantic e-dick slapping. Some of the worst people on this site are among the ones with older join dates who think that entitles them to be god of mafia and dictate to others how to play. To my knowledge I've never played with that guy before, and this game makes me never want to play with him again.

@Drixx

- I will certainly make sure to keep my "worst shit on site" self out of games that you are commited to first also.

[Firebringer]

Holy shit epic length dead thread.

theres also a lot of salt in there.

[Cerberus v666]

Magna is an example of the worst shit on this site. The people with older join dates are always trying to tell people how to play and are super preachy judgy assholes to newer people. It's like gigantic e-dick slapping. Some of the worst people on this site are among the ones with older join dates who think that entitles them to be god of mafia and dictate to others how to play. To my knowledge I've never played with that guy before, and this game makes me never want to play with him again.

@Drixx

- I will certainly make sure to keep my "worst shit on site" self out of games that you are commited to first also.

Fyi, it's unlikely that drixx will avoid doing things he wants to do just to avoid you. He's not one to give someone else power over him.

Holy shit epic length dead thread.

theres also a lot of salt in there.

Finally finished reading it.

So many things I could respond to, but in true me fashion, I have to respond to the one thing that's not true.

@TFL99: We were not lying about the farside shot. Maybe you viewed it aa pushing, but we were VERY careful to work with a very light touch.

[Cerberus v666]

Ohhh I need to explain the shitstorm of bitching by us when mastin showed up to say nothing but reiterate stuff she had already said: this was a perfectly honest, real response. We both felt like she had just asked us to waste a shitload of time for no reason. Posting all of it in thread though, was strategic. Normally drixx and I would just vent to one another, mostly. By posting it in thread, it opened up the possibility that mastin would either just hammer us, which we were desperate to see happen....or think "why are they STILL trying to piss me off if they're scum?" And possibly hammer shiro. It may have been better to simply answer everything as quickly as possible that night, instead of giving into my urge to vent, because we really do believe that a mastin who put in as much time and effort to make her decision as she said she would, who had spent enough time thinking about it to overcome her bias(which all you dead people saw her admit to you), she wouldn't have believed we could be scum. Responding faster would have meant more time she could have spent reaching that point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fyi, it's unlikely that drixx will avoid doing things he wants to do just to avoid you. He's not one to give someone else power over him.

Oh that wasn't meant as a request of him, just a statement. I know better than to expect effort from whiny self-entitled special snowflakes ...

[Killthestory]

whoaaa

[Cerberus v666]

whoaaa

Kts, we could(and should) have blown up your slot as soon as you said you were garnet. I sincerely regret not doing thst, jist for the shock and awe it would cause, plus it would have bypassed your roles protections(per varsoon after you flipped, though by the letter of your ability you would have still been alive).

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and drixx has finished with the logs. Anyone who wants to know the majority of our thoughts during these last few days can now see them.

[Drixx]

Magna is an example of the worst shit on this site. The people with older join dates are always trying to tell people how to play and are super preachy judgy assholes to newer people. It's like gigantic e-dick slapping. Some of the worst people on this site are among the ones with older join dates who think that entitles them to be god of mafia and dictate to others how to play. To my knowledge I've never played with that guy before, and this game makes me never want to play with him again.

@Drixx

- I will certainly make sure to keep my "worst shit on site" self out of games that you are commited to first also.

If you've never been frustrated at someone and vented in a semi-private place before, then please feel free to condemn me for being momentarily irritated with you. Cerberus told me you were irritated with me while I was finishing the copy of our slack logs to our hydra PT, and I had to ask him why. I had no recollection of being irritated with you and was legit confused why you would be upset with me.

When I say I don't hold grudges, I mean it. I literally can't even remember what made me post that. Whatever it was, it was a momentary frustration and I vented it and moved on.

The underlying point is something that has been the case with some players on the site; however, my memory here at the end says that you are

NOT

actually among the small group of people who have a huge e-dick about their join date.

So please accept my sincere apology for the attack. Whatever it was that irritated me caused me to jump to a false conclusion about you. I'm honest though and will freely admit that it was in fact a false conclusion so yeah. My bad.

Fyi, it's unlikely that drixx will avoid doing things he wants to do just to avoid you. He's not one to give someone else power over him.

Oh that wasn't meant as a request of him, just a statement. I know better than to expect effort from whiny self-entitled special snowflakes ...

I always try my hardest, and put in extra effort to mend fences if I offend someone. I am, in fact, the exact opposite of a "special snowflake". Cerb can vouch that I have a rather low opinion of myself.

And if you doubt what I'm saying about no grudges and hug it out/shake hands and move on, you can ask Titus. We had the ugliest interaction I've ever been a part of online in Space Dandy 2, and we got over it and moved on. She's helping me design a game right now even. Like ... you won't find anyone quicker to let the water pass under the bridge than me, I don't think.

After sleep, I'm like only 10% as mad at Mastin as I was. I don't want to pick at that scab. I don't see any upside whatsoever to explaining why it made me legitimately angry, especially since that anger is quickly fading.

@Varsoon: Our Hydra PT is done but post #49 should be redacted. I see no upside to my explanation of why I was so enraged being publicly viewable. It's not that I would mind people knowing about my circumstance ... it's just that I can't see it doing anything positive, and I can think of several ways it could be very negative. Please redact and then our PT is ready to be read.

@all:

We tend to be very blunt when we're talking, Cerb and I. I removed a few things that I felt were just pure venting (we felt like we were endgamed like 2 months ago and literally laid out to Varsoon why and asked him to end the game, so obviously the last two months were pretty rocky), but I also left stuff in that might be borderline. Please know that if you see something in there that is negative about you ... there's literally not a person in this game that I wouldn't play with again and what you're seeing is the product of stress and the need to vent it. As much as we both try to be rational, all human beings have emotions, and it has to go somewhere. (Although, Cerb sometimes makes me wonder ...)

[Titus]

@Drixx/Magna, I would love your feedback.

@Drixx, I saw your scum pt through 121 and you were thisclose to realizing I was IC.

[Drixx]

@Mastin:

Congratulations. My biggest frustration atm is that you caught us, but for all the wrong reasons. All the pieces were there to catch us out. The only critique I have is your reliance on what happened in other games with other setups with other people and trying to apply that onto different scenarios. That's a provably irrational and bad way to go about figuring things out. Much respect though. I threw everything I could at you. I do have to wonder what would have happened if there had been enough time for you to engage with it.

It would have been a satisfying win.


Still... the game was fun far more than it was frustrating. That's a win all around.

@Yume:

I'm sure we would love to hydra with you. Dunno why Cerb didn't already say so.

@Gems:

Sorry we took you out of the win. It wasn't out of spite. We had such a narrow path to victory, we had to choose what we thought gave us the best chance with what we knew. If we thought we could have risked it, we would have left Random alive. Hope there's no hard feelings.

[Cerberus v666]

Yep, I'm a robot. When Grapes asked said I was either scum or not human, I had to bite back an immediate response of "why can't I be both?"

[Drixx]

@Drixx/Magna, I would love your feedback.

@Drixx, I saw your scum pt through 121 and you were thisclose to realizing I was IC.

I never quite realized it. I feel dumb for missing it but it's not like you came out and said "I'm gonna pop IC so I win". Ironically that might have led to a super fast town win as we were kind of committed to the play at that point and would have had to support that. I had that computer problem so my early notes are on a HDD from before. I will snag them and drop you more thorough thoughts.

For those who may not understand why a water spill cost me a computer, I present to you the greatest design flaw ever in a computer case:



That top is wide open to vent air out upwards. Like perhaps 1.5 ounces of water got accidentally dropped into the top and fried the GPU, CPU socket and Ram (but the GPU saved most of the rest of the components).