The Mystery at King's Landing (Game Over)

[Tammy]

This was a game I was in.

Congrats town and thanks for running in Arthur!

Sorry for replacing out. I shouldn't have signed up for a game when I did. As it was I was trying to catch up while cooking and putting off grading and still was 20-30 pages behind, so sorry. This game was probably one of the most relaxed I felt about playing scum, probably because of how much of a mess some town games have been lately that it was nice not to have to worry about town fucking itself over.

The third person talk was very confusing. I think some people don't realize just how hard it is to properly alt guess anyway; talking in the third person doesn't mask that any more than just regular speaking does.

[House Dayne]

Since the scum seem cool with it, Scum PT is now public.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So I decided to see if Baraethon today would still be that vanity wagon.

I can't imagine a scum-aligned Baratheon given our lack of town power.

House Arryn-VT

House Baratheon -Half Gunsmith

House Bolton -Scum Half Doc Traitor

House Clegane -Half vig

House Connington -Half Gunsmith
House Dondarrion -Vanilla Cop
House Frey -VT
House Greyjoy -VT?
House Martell -VT

House Mormont -Jailkeeper

House Reed -VT?

House Seaworth - Half vig

House Stark - VT
House Tully - Half doc

House Tyrell - VT

We have two half vigs, a JK, two half gun smiths, a vanilla cop, and a half doc. Presumably 3 scum and a traitor. The scum even chose to kill a half vig over an investigative. We are ridiculously underpowered. How can Bara be scum?

So

Dondarrion

Stark

Baratheon

team.

Frey is literally saying that our setup is 2 half vigs, 1 gunsmith, 1 half doc, 1 JK, THATS IT. In a large game.

That's insane.

Mathblade, I was intentionally lying here. I wanted to goad you into revealing your thoughts on the setup to determine what sort of opposition town was facing. You shouldn't have argued your point. I would have been a bit less sure on Baratheon scum if you had let this point go but you argued it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You are wrong Seaworth and instead of saying that you can correct it, you can join my Tully wagon which is far superior to whatever this Frey stuff is. You still haven't refuted any of my arguments here - just brushed them aside.

I was such a bro to you this game lol, literally stuck by you through thick and thin we did it! We won and survived

[Albert B. Rampage]

Tully is town. I would bet the barn on that. I'm all-in on Tully town. I'm very sorry if I'm wrong on one of you, those that I called scum. If I make a mistake, I will correct it, in this life or the next. I promise. I gave this game my everything. This is the best that I can do.

Tully too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

No Frey. We'll see after Greyjoy claims. This is useless.

Greyjoy is fucking ridiculous he just needs to skim the last two pages to see everyones waiting on him to claim. He replaces into a game and disapears. Fuck this shit.

points to an absentee scumteam though!

Love you UT

[Untrod Tripod]

Subject: TARGARYEN SPIES PT

OTOH we might need to kill Seaworthy tonight to free up the block tomorrow. ABR is a wild card and we can't trust him to shoot where he says he will.

if only I had listened to myself :'(

[MathBlade]

So I decided to see if Baraethon today would still be that vanity wagon.

I can't imagine a scum-aligned Baratheon given our lack of town power.

House Arryn-VT

House Baratheon -Half Gunsmith

House Bolton -Scum Half Doc Traitor

House Clegane -Half vig

House Connington -Half Gunsmith
House Dondarrion -Vanilla Cop
House Frey -VT
House Greyjoy -VT?
House Martell -VT

House Mormont -Jailkeeper

House Reed -VT?

House Seaworth - Half vig

House Stark - VT
House Tully - Half doc

House Tyrell - VT

We have two half vigs, a JK, two half gun smiths, a vanilla cop, and a half doc. Presumably 3 scum and a traitor. The scum even chose to kill a half vig over an investigative. We are ridiculously underpowered. How can Bara be scum?

So

Dondarrion

Stark

Baratheon

team.

Frey is literally saying that our setup is 2 half vigs, 1 gunsmith, 1 half doc, 1 JK, THATS IT. In a large game.

That's insane.

Mathblade, I was intentionally lying here. I wanted to goad you into revealing your thoughts on the setup to determine what sort of opposition town was facing. You shouldn't have argued your point. I would have been a bit less sure on Baratheon scum if you had let this point go but you argued it.

Good to know thank you

[mastina]

Congrats to the people who did not alt slip any time as well because even I alt slipped once while making a VC. You the real mvp.

Am I included in this even if I was nightkilled N1?

[mastina]

But not the vig...lol

I mean.

I had a plan for the vig.

It was called

saving UT's ass

, and then

clearing him for it

.

For those too lazy to read the dead PT, my process this game was basically this:
"Hey, do the scum know there's a traitor?"
"Yes."
"Will that fact flip if a scum dies?"
"No."
"Okay, cool. I'm planning on fakeclaiming odd-night weak doctor, so that I can clear my scumbuddies one by one, and letting them know this by heavily traitor crumbing."

I easily deduced that we had a roleblocker. I suspected Frey was a goon. I also figured I had a counterpart, an even-night protective role, though I didn't know it was an exact mirror nor did I care. If they counterclaimed me, it didn't matter; I was a fucking traitor so I knew that an even-night doctor counterclaiming my odd-night weak doctor claim would be +EV for my scumteam. If they BELIEVED me, all the better!

...And then.
Quite literally.
The moment Firebringer (who was easy to figure out as being such) posted that Greyjoy was town.

I PMed SAD.
"Oh fuck my scumteam's going to nightkill me."

That required a change of tact.

"Why not just imply you knew Tully was lying?"

Because the only players who knew Tully was lying were the four scum and Firebringer himself. If I had cast shade on House Tully's claim, then it would only serve to draw unwanted attention onto myself.
Basically, I literally couldn't shout "HOUSE TULLY IS NOT YOUR TRAITOR" because doing so would in fact...be a quite literal scumclaim. It would be a scumclaim even without the town knowing Greyjoy was scum; it would be a scumclaim on D1, with ALL the scum attacking me for it AND all the town attacking me for it.

So instead of shouting "HOUSE TULLY IS NOT YOUR TRAITOR", I instead shouted, "I AM YOUR TRAITOR SO PLEASE DON'T FUCKING SHOOT ME".

So I crammed in traitor breadcrumbs at every step of the way. I tried to signal them to my identity: I talked to Stark, but I was really using Stark as a decoy to convey my message to the scumteam. "I AM MASTINA I BREADCRUMB MY REAL ROLE EVEN AS SCUM SO READ MY FUCKING ISO AND REALIZE I HAVE DROPPED A DISPROPORTIONATELY LARGE NUMBER OF BREADCRUMBS THAT LITERALLY SPELL OUT I AM YOUR TRAITOR".

When that

still

failed. When my message STILL wasn't getting through. I upped the ante. And talked DIRECTLY TO BARATHEON. And conveyed quite literally the entirety of my plan: "I AM GOING TO PROTECT YOU AND THEN CLEAR YOU AND THEN WORK WITH YOU DAY TWO ONWARDS SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DON'T FUCKING NIGHTKILL ME, GODDAMMIT!"

This was emphasized when I counterclaimed Kuroi's Jailkeeper. I made

the most sketchiest claim possible

.

• I was vague about my claim, in spite of me attacking ABR for having done the same. (Meaning, I was hypocritical.)
  
• I backtracked out and refused to take responsibility for it, by saying "I'm not actually counterclaiming".
  
• I tried to have the best of both worlds.

These things were meant to achieve four basic goals:

1. Lynch the town power role (because the job of the traitor is to FUCKING LYNCH THE TOWN'S POWER ROLES and that's QUITE LITERALLY EXACTLY WHAT MY CLAIM DID because Mormont wasn't getting lynched otherwise)
   
2. Lessen my towncred, so that come D2 I would be in a position where I was forced to explain myself (remember, I WANTED to explain myself!)
   
3. Further signal to my scumteam "I AM YOUR TRAITOR AND I AM LITERALLY TRYING TO DESTROY THE TOWN FROM THE INSIDE-OUT"
   
4. While still positioning myself in a place where I would make the entire scumteam (myself included) look stronger come mid-D2.

This is why nobody quite understood my iso:

They were reading with the assumption that what they saw was what they got, but I wasn't planning on being nightkilled N1. (I mean. I knew from the getgo I was GOING to be killed N1. I tried my damnedest to AVOID getting the kill N1, at every step of the way SCREAMING to my scumbuddies to NOT do what I fucking knew they were going to do. But being killed N1 was my contingency plan, not my main plan.)

If I had lived to see D2 and pull off my weak odd-night doctor claim, then...
-I'd have saved Baratheon from being vigged
-I'd have also entered a 1v1 with House Connington, maybe even getting Connington lynched
-I'd have positioned myself in a place where if Connington DIDN'T have a guilty, both myself and House Baratheon would be held in higher standards.
-And when combined with Greyjoy being cleared by Tully, the one and only scum at risk of death would be House Frey.

Who I picked up as being expendable, but who I also figured I could stall for time on. There were just enough potential mislynches hanging around that I felt I could keep Frey alive until N3, where I would if I still had free reign on doctor choice callouts protecting them, thereby clearing them.

That was my plan.
It only required one fucking thing: me surviving past the first night. (I knew past the first day was no problem--even IF I were wagoned and forced to claim, claiming weak odd-night doctor would have only set up my gambit with a greater ease. The first NIGHT was the problem, because if my scumbuddies didn't fucking look at my iso like I was begging them to, they'd miss my breadcrumbs.)

Fun fact though: I actually misidentified House Baratheon. I didn't suspect gunsmith. I thought Baratheon might be a scum neighborizer of some sort, and was thinking, "Yes. YES. YES! NEIGHBORIZE ME YOU BITCH SO WE CAN FUCKING COMMUNICATE AND WORK AS A TEAM!".
Was quite sad when I learned there was no such role in the game.

tl;dr: my plan this game was to claim weak odd-night doctor, protect Baratheon (the only scum who'd get vigged), claim D2, clear him, and via my clear signalling to them that I'm their fucking traitor (since obviously a real weak doctor would die on Baratheon), letting them in on my plan. I knew the risk of a roleblocker meant they MIGHT not get the message, and I knew they were going to probably kill me anyway, but dammit, I did everything to try and tell them to NOT fucking shoot me.

[mastina]

I like to think that my charisma is my biggest weapon

That's one of the reasons why I was pushing you, btw.
I knew Baratheon = Untrod Tripod; it wasn't that hard to figure out. So I trusted in your innate ability to not die D1. I didn't need you to live longer than that on your own merit, because by MY plan, you wouldn't NEED to: you'd be cleared come D2, and thus, above reproach. For you to die, first I'd have to die and given I was one of the town's strongest voices, that wasn't happening if I successfully told you I was the traitor.

(Like. I even tried hinting I was the traitor with my readslist. One in scum, one in null, one in town? It's as cliched as can be. And the fact that Bolton was mastina shoulda told you that Frey being on the southern side so consistently was me as scum because no way in fuck does a mastina-as-town have reads that good!)

[mastina]

Speaking of alts, I will be cleaning alts (deleting PMs and resetting passwords) in the next week or so whenever I get the chance, unless someone really wants to keep/got attached to their alt (and Zoraster agrees).

If you're not planning on reusing them, then...
*raises hand*

I'm dead serious when I say my play on House Bolton is the best I've ever played--not just as mafia. In any game, ever.
I wanted a game to change up my gameplay, because I was intensely dissatisfied with how my games were going, particularly, my towngames. And the process I came up with for House Bolton revolutionized it. (Titus, I mentioned this in Mini Normal 1900, and this is what I was referring to: my play as House Bolton. But since you were alive as Reed I couldn't exactly SAY that to you.)

I've managed to maintain

some

of House Bolton's magic even as mastina, but to be honest...I don't think I can muster the full strength I had this game unless I'm on the account doing SOME level of roleplay. (Not as much as in this game, but at least maintaining some of the flairs I was rather fond of this game.) It's part of the charm, I feel.

[Firebringer]

Pretty sure Greyjoy was town.
I had N0 innocent on them.

[MathBlade]

I has sads

The great Mastina math hybrid destroyed *sniff*

Ugh.

[Firebringer]

Hey greyjoy, how you doing in what we call meat space?

Feel like joining me on Martell wagon?

<< Shadowrun reference
<< Tully was obviously FB at this point
<< I had a traitor in Shadowrun
<< Innocent claim on Greyjoy
<< Demolished town read on entry

<< How the fucking hell Tully didn't turn up traitor surprised the FUCK out of me.

lol I wasn't mentioning shadowrun.

[mastina]

Bolton was in an extremely dominant position and played the best scum game of his life, but he's too arrogant to understand that he took too much risk just to kill Mormont.

I didn't exactly have much of a choice:
-If I didn't counterclaim House Mormont, my plan wouldn't have worked.

People would wonder, come D2, why I didn't counterclaim House Mormont on D1. (To be honest, the presence of a full-JK legit surprised me. When I CCed Mormont, I thought Mormont was an even-night jailkeeper. I wasn't lying when I said his role simply didn't fit, from my understanding of the game.)

Furthermore. If House Mormont lived and blocked me, then--while it would save me from the scum's nightkill--it would also prevent me from executing my plan. I had been breadcrumbing my plan all-day. My claim was set in stone, and I couldn't back out of it. Which brings me to...

-I was probably dead anyway. I tried, every step of the way, to tell the scum "I AM YOUR TRAITOR", without saying "TULLY IS NOT YOUR TRAITOR" (because the latter would be a scumclaim, so no, Titus, I never did this contrary to what you thought and everyone saying as much to you was right), but because I couldn't exactly give them any signal without it being a scumclaim (I couldn't identify scum as 'Spies', since if we had a scumflip me doing so early-on would rightfully be seen as a scumslip; I similarly couldn't identify scum as being Targyrenean because if we had a scumflip me doing so early-on especially given my lack of flavor knowledge would be a scumclaim), I knew I was likely getting nightkilled anyway.

I *WAS* the protective role for odd nights. (I assumed Mormont was even-night JK, and thus, couldn't protect me.) Meaning, I knew there wasn't going to be a doctor or a bodyguard or whatnot on me. Meaning, I was wide open to attack. (I also knew that if I died to the scum nightkill then any other protection claim after that would be seen as town.)

I knew I was obvtown.
I knew I was a town leader.
I knew that thanks to having Baratheon as a heavy suspicion and Frey on the southern side of null, scum who didn't know I was a traitor would think I was deadly-accurate.

So given those factors: I was expecting to die even WITHOUT the claim.
If I was going to be the nightkill even without counterclaiming...what did I lose by trying to take out a town power role? I lost nothing.
I gained:
-Potentially signalling my true alignment to my team, AND
-A dead town PR.

Counterclaiming was a low-risk, high-reward move. I figured I couldn't be more dead than I already was going to be to a town nightkill. I figured I wouldn't eat the vig. (Clegane strongly townread me and I felt my counterclaiming a flipped town PR wouldn't warrant a 180 in of itself.) Not threatened by the town, not any more threatened by the scum than I already was, yet giving a near-guaranteed reward to the scumteam.

...

...

That being said

.
You're not exactly wrong; I got greedy.
I wanted to be everything the scum needed all at once.
The problem was the scum needed to KNOW I was everything the scum needed all at once.

[mhsmith0]

I mean, I guess you could have tried to get Tully mislynched day 1? idr how tough that might have been tho.

[Firebringer]

I don't think it would have been possible to mislynch me day one.
No one really scumread me.

[Lycanfire]

Congrats to the people who did not alt slip any time as well because even I alt slipped once while making a VC. You the real mvp.

Am I included in this even if I was nightkilled N1?

Don't let ABR's alt slip distract you from the fact that on N1, the scumteam threw Mastina off Panzerjager, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.

[mastina]

Mastin. When you're strong, take less risk. When you're weak, take more risk. You cost yourself the game.

The thing is, I wasn't strong--in the way which most mattered. And I fucking knew it.

The number one thing I needed to be strong at, above ALL else, was communicating to my scumteam.

And frustratingly, in spite of more and more blatant attempts to communicate to them, every step of the way, I knew I wasn't strong in the way which I needed to be: NOT being the scum's nightkill.

I needed to take a risk.

I did the one thing I could which I thought would most destroy my towncred. (Towncred, in this case, was my ENEMY because too much = scum nightkill.) I made a sketchy-as-fuck counterclaim, and forced a lynch through on a town PR.

And as a doctor. I was afraid of a tracker. Or massclaim for that matter. I didn't want to be locked into a VT claim (rightfully so as it turns out with a vanilla cop), and I was terrified that a tracker could catch me making a scummy-as-fuck doctor protect. I needed a claim which made a lot of sense. So I invented the "minimal lies, yet still manipulative" claim of...weak odd-night doctor. A claim which would give me every justification in the world to target my scumbuddies and use my role to save their fucking lives, because as a doctor I instantly knew "welp there's at least one vig in the game" (it kinda went without saying), so I knew I NEEDED to protect my scumbuddies.

And I needed the protection to make sense--so why not have the protection double as a way to make the scumbuddy I just protected be launched into conftown status?

I even had a justification for my choice: deliberately trying to hit the player that Clegane vigged. The logic there being (remember I suspected a roleblocker):
"If Clegane and I both target the same player, there's a fork. If the scum roleblock Clegane, then my weak doctor goes through and I die, confirming the player as scum. If the scum roleblock me and leave Clegane exposed, then Clegane shoots my target."

I mean, I had no way of knowing Clegane would shoot Connington instead of Baratheon, but this would have worked as a justification for protecting a scummy-as-fuck player, yes?

[MathBlade]

Hey greyjoy, how you doing in what we call meat space?

Feel like joining me on Martell wagon?

<< Shadowrun reference
<< Tully was obviously FB at this point
<< I had a traitor in Shadowrun
<< Innocent claim on Greyjoy
<< Demolished town read on entry

<< How the fucking hell Tully didn't turn up traitor surprised the FUCK out of me.

lol I wasn't mentioning shadowrun.

Meat space = location in Shadowrun. You and I were in that game. It may not have been intentional but....

[Firebringer]

Meat space = location in Shadowrun. You and I were in that game. It may not have been intentional but....

Meat space = real life

[MathBlade]

Bolton was in an extremely dominant position and played the best scum game of his life, but he's too arrogant to understand that he took too much risk just to kill Mormont.

I didn't exactly have much of a choice:
-If I didn't counterclaim House Mormont, my plan wouldn't have worked.

People would wonder, come D2, why I didn't counterclaim House Mormont on D1. (To be honest, the presence of a full-JK legit surprised me. When I CCed Mormont, I thought Mormont was an even-night jailkeeper. I wasn't lying when I said his role simply didn't fit, from my understanding of the game.)

Furthermore. If House Mormont lived and blocked me, then--while it would save me from the scum's nightkill--it would also prevent me from executing my plan. I had been breadcrumbing my plan all-day. My claim was set in stone, and I couldn't back out of it. Which brings me to...

-I was probably dead anyway. I tried, every step of the way, to tell the scum "I AM YOUR TRAITOR", without saying "TULLY IS NOT YOUR TRAITOR" (because the latter would be a scumclaim, so no, Titus, I never did this contrary to what you thought and everyone saying as much to you was right), but because I couldn't exactly give them any signal without it being a scumclaim (I couldn't identify scum as 'Spies', since if we had a scumflip me doing so early-on would rightfully be seen as a scumslip; I similarly couldn't identify scum as being Targyrenean because if we had a scumflip me doing so early-on especially given my lack of flavor knowledge would be a scumclaim), I knew I was likely getting nightkilled anyway.

I *WAS* the protective role for odd nights. (I assumed Mormont was even-night JK, and thus, couldn't protect me.) Meaning, I knew there wasn't going to be a doctor or a bodyguard or whatnot on me. Meaning, I was wide open to attack. (I also knew that if I died to the scum nightkill then any other protection claim after that would be seen as town.)

I knew I was obvtown.
I knew I was a town leader.
I knew that thanks to having Baratheon as a heavy suspicion and Frey on the southern side of null, scum who didn't know I was a traitor would think I was deadly-accurate.

So given those factors: I was expecting to die even WITHOUT the claim.
If I was going to be the nightkill even without counterclaiming...what did I lose by trying to take out a town power role? I lost nothing.
I gained:
-Potentially signalling my true alignment to my team, AND
-A dead town PR.

Counterclaiming was a low-risk, high-reward move. I figured I couldn't be more dead than I already was going to be to a town nightkill. I figured I wouldn't eat the vig. (Clegane strongly townread me and I felt my counterclaiming a flipped town PR wouldn't warrant a 180 in of itself.) Not threatened by the town, not any more threatened by the scum than I already was, yet giving a near-guaranteed reward to the scumteam.

...

...

That being said

.
You're not exactly wrong; I got greedy.
I wanted to be everything the scum needed all at once.
The problem was the scum needed to KNOW I was everything the scum needed all at once.

I never would have killed you without the claim. I was working on buddying you. *sigh*

[MathBlade]

Meat space = location in Shadowrun. You and I were in that game. It may not have been intentional but....

Meat space = real life

XD

[mastina]

Nah, mastina didn't do anything wrong.

<3

If the scumteam cannot realize the amount of betrayal in her ISO, that's their problem not hers. They were told to look for it.

I mean.

House Stark:

If you are correct about our liaison's identity, we strongly urge you to reread our iso from the beginning. If you cannot ascertain the reason why our fair house is loyal to the Lannisters after having done so, you were mistaken as to our identity. If you understand why we are town, it will be easier to coordinate with you.

(Substitute 'Stark' with 'scumteam'; 'loyal' with 'traitor'; 'town' with 'mafia'.)

House Baratheon:

House Bolton would all too happily accept an offer of an alliance between our houses were your loyalties easily established, and this is something we hope shall be given to us overnight. (For we lack the support to lynch you today.)

I really DID tell them to look for it.