Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

Almost Chara
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Post Post #475  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:51 am

In post 450, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Lol I stopped Por Flavor when Chara asked. I'm signing properly now!
Unlike Chara's other head, which seems like a double standard I was gonna be really snarky about but sad on for a bit so it would gcome out like this rather than really dickishly.

- Obvistophanes.

i know Almost read my post to you. i've said what i wanted to say about it, and i can't force him to do anything. i do appreciate you signing, though.

Varsoon: i did read your triple vote, i'm not sure why i didn't feel the need to comment. i also didn't believe it was real but i sort of understood it was for reactions so i left it be.

~Chara
[wiki] hydra of Almost50 and Chara.
[Win:Loss] T 2:2, S 1:1, 3P 1:0

Michael Scott
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Post Post #476  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:52 am

In post 469, Varsoon wrote:For people who thought my triple-vote-hammer was fake; why did you stay silent about it?
I'm curious.


To see how others would react to it, *especially* STW. And then I forgot about it.

~Jimothy

Varsoon
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Post Post #477  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:53 am

@AC: If you felt it was for reactions, why didn't ya play into it or react? :P
I just think it's curious that so many people definitely saw it and hard-dodged acknowledging it at all.
It's a creeping feeling like there's something there but I don't know what or how to suss it out.

-V

Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #478  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:55 am

In post 461, Varsoon wrote:@Michael Slott: The appeals they made while I was pushing them were not the kind of appeals that I associate with town.
The whole 'stretch your mind' appeal is one that I've only seen them make as scum.
When confronted with this piece of meta that wasn't even all that damning, their defense was to handwave that the hydra has no meta, which isn't really an argument that I'd see either Shoshin or TW making, as town, when confronted this way.
They produced a Taly scumread when under pressure, but when asked to elaborate on that scumread, they failed to be able to do so and instead defaulted to a position that I hard scumread--that they have some sort of info/tell that they can't share and are waiting to reveal. This is a scum position because they can just either; 1. Come up with a convenient lie later, once they've had time to think on it and Taly has more content or 2. They can just never reveal it if people forget about it.
The way they handled my pressure in regards to the Taly scumread isn't forthright as Shoshin usually is as town and reads as scummy to me.
Since then, they've largely done nothing of note and seem to have basically taken my pressure on them as an excuse to duck out for a 'cooling off' period where they can let suspicion on them subside/die entirely. Town doesn't do this, in my experience.
Their resistance re:signing isn't something that I townread.
How they handled the signing thing isn't something I see coming from a town mindset, either. Obviously, there's the WIFOM that stubborn town just wouldn't concede to signing or that scum wouldn't back down to try to seem like stubborn town or that backing down would be survivalist from a scum PoV but honestly

I just don't like it.

Couple that with people finding a lot of quick reasons to wagon someone who had, up to that point, phoned in pretty easy-to-attack play and the general way the wagon was abandoned and I can come to one of two conclusions:

1. STW slot is scum.
2. If not, STW slot isn't playing in a pro-town manner and had scum on their wagon.

Out of all of the players in the game, STW has the most amount of content that I scumread, so I'll be keeping my vote there and still working for a lynch there. The natural discrediting tactic that you're going to see happen is that scum will try to call this a tunnel, despite me being engaged with other slots, reading the game, and trying to figure it out beyond STW. They'll try to act like having a scumread you want to get lynched is a tunnel, somehow, and therefore unlikely to produce a flip on scum; it's important that you know this is absolutely a discrediting tactic and dismiss it as such.

Spoiler: Jealous of A50's videos


-V


I’ll think about this. I still like the thought processes behind their reads, for the most part.
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #479  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:58 am

In post 466, Varsoon wrote:I'd say about 80%. They haven't done anything that absolutely damns them, but they've played in a way highly contrary to expectations from them both as players and from the site standards for what qualifies as town play and from my own standards for what I qualify as town play. I'm more confident I am than any other slot so far; that's why I continue to vote there and campaign for that lynch.

As far as other scumreads go, I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but there are definitely slots I'd be more or less critical of depending on STW's flip, independent of that:
I find Mephisto's play really curious but I'm hesitant to say it's scum play.
I think that at least one scum player is certainly lying low; odds are very good that we'd hit scum in one of Mewtaph, Nico Robin, and Kokichi Oma--all of which have checked in but largely avoided commenting on anything game-related besides vanity.

-V


Varsoon, will you ever be able to correctly read me? In last game, you tried to mislynch me. :/

I think Nico is highly likely.
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #480  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:01 am

In post 477, Varsoon wrote:@AC: If you felt it was for reactions, why didn't ya play into it or react? :P
I just think it's curious that so many people definitely saw it and hard-dodged acknowledging it at all.
It's a creeping feeling like there's something there but I don't know what or how to suss it out.

-V


Why would you expect people to react to something, they assumed to be, either fake or a joke?
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Varsoon
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Post Post #481  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:10 am

You'd think that if people saw it as fake they'd either
1. Decry it as such
2. Figure it for a gambit and play into it in order to see the results on people it did fool

Neither happened, which is curious to me.
Dunno if it's all that fruitful of a line of inquiry, though. :/

As far as accurately reading you, I did so in Starcraft after engaging with you and having an incorrect read initially. This is why it's important to engage with players and be present. I also accurately townread you in Excalibur, or, rather, I had you as 'locktown' because I found your play to be absolutely defensibly town from a town PoV and knew there was no use in fighting for a lynch on you there, as scum.

People do love to throw up the 'Varsoon cant read me!' bit a lot, though, and they've done it as either align, so I don't know how to take it.

-V

Kokichi Oma
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Post Post #482  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:23 am

I'll read later sorry
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.

Michael Scott
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Post Post #483  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:36 am

In post 481, Varsoon wrote:You'd think that if people saw it as fake they'd either
1. Decry it as such
2. Figure it for a gambit and play into it in order to see the results on people it did fool

Neither happened, which is curious to me.
Dunno if it's all that fruitful of a line of inquiry, though. :/


Decrying it would partially negate the effect it could have on the person you triple voted.
"Playing into it" one of the better ways of doing this is to not comment on it at all IMO.

~Jimothy

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Post Post #484  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:39 am

Mmm. Makes sense.
The problem is that now we've had a VC that proves it false so it's kinda lost cause
Just trying to get what info I can from it.

-V

Michael Scott
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Post Post #485  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:43 am

Also what's up with solo players signing their posts but hydras refusing to. :lol:

~You-know-who

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Post Post #486  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:53 am

It's a jab at people for being turds
literally going against site etiquette and mod request

-V

Alchemist21
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Post Post #487  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:53 am

Varsoon you had already said you were tempted to act like stw had been hammered earlier for reactions so when you did the triple vote I knew it wasn’t real so it wasn’t anything that needed to be responded to.

pinturicchio
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Post Post #488  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:54 am

In post 485, Michael Scott wrote:Also what's up with solo players signing their posts but hydras refusing to. :lol:

~You-know-who

Just got back into the game and saw this, what do you mean?

-Turicchio

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Post Post #489  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:55 am

I didn’t think you would expect anyone to tske it seriously either, I just thought it was an emphasis on how much you wanted them lynched.

Michael Scott
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Post Post #490  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:57 am

In post 488, pinturicchio wrote:Just got back into the game and saw this, what do you mean?

Taly and Varsoon signing their posts redundantly, while the STW hydra refuses to do so.

~Jimothy

pinturicchio
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Post Post #491  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:14 am

In post 490, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 488, pinturicchio wrote:Just got back into the game and saw this, what do you mean?

Taly and Varsoon signing their posts redundantly, while the STW hydra refuses to do so.

~Jimothy

r/woosh.

-Turicchio.

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Post Post #492  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:16 am

In post 489, Alchemist21 wrote:I didn’t think you would expect anyone to tske it seriously either, I just thought it was an emphasis on how much you wanted them lynched.


I didn't really have many expectations when I did it, but I did find it kind of weird that no one said a thing about it.
It actually lowkey makes me think that STW is scum, for really fargone reasons that I'm not proud to share.

Varsoon
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Post Post #493  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:21 am

Forgot to sign, whoops.

Also, screw it, here's my dumb rationale there:
Scum allies of STW didn't want to say anything to toss any sort of associative on the off-chance it was a real hammer and so they silently let it slide until mod confirmed it one way or another and they're smart enough to know that they'd get no points for making a fuss over it once confirmed as a lie.

-V

Michael Scott
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Post Post #494  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:23 am

In post 491, pinturicchio wrote:r/woosh.

Oh crap, forgot you were a solo player for a moment :lol:

~James

Alchemist21
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Post Post #495  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:25 am

That’s a pretty far stretch. Why didn’t any Town players respond to it either? The fact that nobody responded to it makes the lack of response NAI and I don’t know why you’re hung up on this.

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Post Post #496  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:28 am

@Alchemist21: That's why I said it's dumb reasoning and didn't even post it in the first place.
Town obviously didn't respond because they either
1. thought it was a joke
2. wanted to see STW's response
3. forgot about it/overlooked it

But yeah, as for why I'm hung up on it at all:
In post 477, Varsoon wrote:I just think it's curious that so many people definitely saw it and hard-dodged acknowledging it at all.
It's a creeping feeling like there's something there but I don't know what or how to suss it out.


But I will say that it's kinda been fruitless for me beyond what I said so far, so I'm dropping it.
Will be neat to see post-game, though, if it did mean anything.

-V

Michael Scott
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Post Post #497  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:36 am

In post 495, Alchemist21 wrote:That’s a pretty far stretch. Why didn’t any Town players respond to it either? The fact that nobody responded to it makes the lack of response NAI and I don’t know why you’re hung up on this.

He's not singling out any player or saying that the lack of response is AI, though.
Town and scum needn't necessarily react the same way to the triple vote, and he's exploring possible motivations behind why scum, in particular, would ignore it -- especially in the lens of Shoshin being scum. While it is stretched and not really convincing, it's not invalid analysis.

~Meh

ProFlavor
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Post Post #498  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:01 pm

someone said something about FL coasting a bit - he always does that. He invited me to hydra with him so I was kinda thinking I'd let him lead proceedings but he is never going to be as active as I am so that approach probably wont help.

I recall someone asking me about my T&L read- its not an amazing read really - BH & GE are both players I approach by saying they are town until they do something scummy because I mostly just don't get any vibe from what they say - I often play with him and people in the player list will be like 'oh gamma/BH is def scum' and I'm just sat here like "am I stupid i do not get that?!"
...but, for example in overkill 2, gamma was obviously defending a scum player so it was obviously AI and led to me copping him.

I'm not sure how far behind as I've skimmed most of the thread but I'll be reading tonight i think.

Krazy
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Post Post #499  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:04 pm

In post 146, Alchemist21 wrote:@Mod; Is there going to be a record of previous Days’ player list orders or do players have to manually keep track of previous orders?


Each dayphase will begin with the current list order. I can link or spoiler the previous list orders when the new list is posted.
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