Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

Krazy
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Post Post #500  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:04 pm

Votecount 1.6
u r a person 2(4) ~ (50), (34), (15), (20)
Shoshin the worst(1) ~ (84)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (38)
Alchemist21(1) ~ (2)


Not Voting (6): (112), Almost Chara(19), Kokichi Oma(8), (28), NicoRobin(3), (39), u r a person 2 (32)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-16 22:12:40)


FLAVOR
Spoiler:
Last edited by Krazy on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
vote conspiracy

Shoshin the worst
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Post Post #501  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:07 pm

In response to your concerns, Varsoon:

1. the worst addressed the "stretch your mind" phrase in . The "no meta" post wasn't a defense to that.

2. the worst has a long history of holding back his reasoning on reads until much later in the game (e.g. in Labyrinth where he gave a read on D1, then refused to explain that read until somewhere around D4), and I often hold back reasoning as well for shorter stretches of time to test reactions. In Taly's case, we've discussed his behavior/meta extensively in our hydra PM and promise everything will be explained before end of D1.

3. We disagree with you about "mafia theory" when it comes to playing hydras. Given our previous experiences disagreeing when we were both town, you shouldn't scumread us for disagreement. We understand that you want to treat us as two separate players who are playing under one slot, but we're not playing as separate players so your desire to treat us as separate isn't possible. We're playing as one player. Given your lack of complaint about others who play as one player (most of the playerlist), we don't think that should be an issue.

4. The fact that we're playing our hydra in this way is actually a town tell for us because if we had received a scum PM we would have used every scummy tool at our disposal, including extensive hydra dissonance, cluttering the thread with disorganized back-and-forth arguments with each other that served no purpose other than drowning out meaningful posting, as well as other scummy tactics that hydra mechanics make possible. As you should know by now, neither of us would ever limit ourselves in this way as scum. Especially me (Shoshin). I don't have a hydra meta so limiting myself like this in my first game as a hydra isn't something I'd do as scum.

We hope you come to townread us because we don't think it's going to be helpful for you to push our lynch all game. At the very least, you should give us an opportunity to find and lynch the scum before declaring us scummy.

-the worst & Shoshin
hydra of Shoshin & the worst!

Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #502  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:10 pm

In post 481, Varsoon wrote:You'd think that if people saw it as fake they'd either
1. Decry it as such
2. Figure it for a gambit and play into it in order to see the results on people it did fool

Neither happened, which is curious to me.
Dunno if it's all that fruitful of a line of inquiry, though. :/

As far as accurately reading you, I did so in Starcraft after engaging with you and having an incorrect read initially. This is why it's important to engage with players and be present. I also accurately townread you in Excalibur, or, rather, I had you as 'locktown' because I found your play to be absolutely defensibly town from a town PoV and knew there was no use in fighting for a lynch on you there, as scum.

People do love to throw up the 'Varsoon cant read me!' bit a lot, though, and they've done it as either align, so I don't know how to take it.

-V


:lol:

With all due respect Varsoon, I’ve only played one game with you as town, and you tried to get me mislynched in that one, so I don’t even know if you expect me to take this seriously or not?
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #503  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:13 pm

In post 488, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 485, Michael Scott wrote:Also what's up with solo players signing their posts but hydras refusing to. :lol:

~You-know-who

Just got back into the game and saw this, what do you mean?

-Turicchio


:lol:

~Not Ari. :P
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #504  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:13 pm

In post 489, Alchemist21 wrote:I didn’t think you would expect anyone to tske it seriously either, I just thought it was an emphasis on how much you wanted them lynched.


+1
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #505  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:14 pm

In post 492, Varsoon wrote:
In post 489, Alchemist21 wrote:I didn’t think you would expect anyone to tske it seriously either, I just thought it was an emphasis on how much you wanted them lynched.


I didn't really have many expectations when I did it, but I did find it kind of weird that no one said a thing about it.
It actually lowkey makes me think that STW is scum, for really fargone reasons that I'm not proud to share.


???
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #506  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:17 pm

In post 493, Varsoon wrote:Forgot to sign, whoops.

Also, screw it, here's my dumb rationale there:
Scum allies of STW didn't want to say anything to toss any sort of associative on the off-chance it was a real hammer and so they silently let it slide until mod confirmed it one way or another and they're smart enough to know that they'd get no points for making a fuss over it once confirmed as a lie.

-V


Is there anyone who really believed you triple voted them?

Because this argument rests squarely on that presumption.
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #507  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:18 pm

In post 495, Alchemist21 wrote:That’s a pretty far stretch. Why didn’t any Town players respond to it either? The fact that nobody responded to it makes the lack of response NAI and I don’t know why you’re hung up on this.


+1
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #508  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:20 pm

In post 497, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 495, Alchemist21 wrote:That’s a pretty far stretch. Why didn’t any Town players respond to it either? The fact that nobody responded to it makes the lack of response NAI and I don’t know why you’re hung up on this.

He's not singling out any player or saying that the lack of response is AI, though.
Town and scum needn't necessarily react the same way to the triple vote, and he's exploring possible motivations behind why scum, in particular, would ignore it -- especially in the lens of Shoshin being scum. While it is stretched and not really convincing, it's not invalid analysis.

~Meh


Had Varsoon actually claimed triple voter beforehand, I might have taken it a bit more seriously but w/o any claim, I assumed it was fake.
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Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #509  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:23 pm

In post 500, Krazy wrote:
Votecount 1.6
u r a person 2(4) ~ (50), (34), (15), (20)
Shoshin the worst(1) ~ (84)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (38)
Alchemist21(1) ~ (2)


Not Voting (6): (112), Almost Chara(19), Kokichi Oma(8), (28), NicoRobin(3), (39), u r a person 2 (32)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-16 22:12:40)


FLAVOR
Spoiler:


@Mew, why tf are your voting Alchemist21?
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ProFlavor
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Post Post #510  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:23 pm

In post 506, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 493, Varsoon wrote:Forgot to sign, whoops.

Also, screw it, here's my dumb rationale there:
Scum allies of STW didn't want to say anything to toss any sort of associative on the off-chance it was a real hammer and so they silently let it slide until mod confirmed it one way or another and they're smart enough to know that they'd get no points for making a fuss over it once confirmed as a lie.

-V


Is there anyone who really believed you triple voted them?

Because this argument rests squarely on that presumption.
There are people who think we seriously wanted a page 3 lynch so anything's possible

~ woof

u r a person 2
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Post Post #511  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:24 pm

Oh it's a role! I was very confused what ya'll were talking about
103-11 0-2

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Post Post #512  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:25 pm

@STW: Your point 4 is entirely WIFOM. As scum, I am constantly undermining my own play because I'm next-level. Yeah, if you were level-1 or 2 scum, that's how you'd approach play, but I know from the last game you played that you're trying to break into level 3 play.

Anyway, I don't find your answer to be satisfying of my suspicion.

@Mephistophanes: I didn't try to get you mislynched there (assuming you're talking about StarCraft 1?); I sorted you properly and came to the correct conclusion that you were town. I wasn't informed enough to know if you actually were town, so I couldn't have been intentionally pushing a mislynch. My point stands that I've correctly townread you in our last two encounters and in this one I'm going to need more interaction and data and, yes, at some point, I might vote you, but it's all in the effort to sort you. I don't see myself voting you anytime soon, as you've been more confusing to me than scummy, if that makes sense. You've helped sort out a lot of stuff, though. I appreciate it.

Why are you giving people +1 here and there? What's the purpose of that?


-V

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Post Post #513  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:29 pm

In post 501, Shoshin the worst wrote:The fact that we're playing our hydra in this way is actually a town tell for us because if we had received a scum PM we would have used every scummy tool at our disposal, including extensive hydra dissonance, cluttering the thread with disorganized back-and-forth arguments with each other that served no purpose other than drowning out meaningful posting, as well as other scummy tactics that hydra mechanics make possible. As you should know by now, neither of us would ever limit ourselves in this way as scum. Especially me (Shoshin). I don't have a hydra meta so limiting myself like this in my first game as a hydra isn't something I'd do as scum.

I'm disliking this. I could argue that not signing with the intention of "synchronisation" can also be beneficial to scum, allowing you to fudge tone, delay responses, and make it difficult to carry a conversation with one of your heads.

~Jimothy

Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #514  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:36 pm

In post 512, Varsoon wrote:@STW: Your point 4 is entirely WIFOM. As scum, I am constantly undermining my own play because I'm next-level. Yeah, if you were level-1 or 2 scum, that's how you'd approach play, but I know from the last game you played that you're trying to break into level 3 play.

Anyway, I don't find your answer to be satisfying of my suspicion.

@Mephistophanes: I didn't try to get you mislynched there (assuming you're talking about StarCraft 1?); I sorted you properly and came to the correct conclusion that you were town. I wasn't informed enough to know if you actually were town, so I couldn't have been intentionally pushing a mislynch. My point stands that I've correctly townread you in our last two encounters and in this one I'm going to need more interaction and data and, yes, at some point, I might vote you, but it's all in the effort to sort you. I don't see myself voting you anytime soon, as you've been more confusing to me than scummy, if that makes sense. You've helped sort out a lot of stuff, though. I appreciate it.

Why are you giving people +1 here and there? What's the purpose of that?


-V


I obviously didn’t mean that you did that KNOWINGLY but you did try to aggressively wagon me, before you backed off. Yes, of course I mean that game. What other game have you been town in with me?

I post a “+1”, whenever I see a post I 100% agree with.
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Post Post #515  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:39 pm

@Mephisto: I didn't know for sure that you meant that game and that you didn't mean knowingly. I don't know if I've been town with you outside of that--hadn't we played some games together before? My memory kinda sucks.

Thanks for explaining the +1 thing. I didn't know if it meant that you were handing out townpoints or agreeing or pushing that post forward or what.

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Post Post #516  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:48 pm

Vars, have you formed a read on me yet?

~Jimothy

Shoshin the worst
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Post Post #517  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:48 pm

Varsoon, who are you townreading at this point?
hydra of Shoshin & the worst!

Mephistophanes 39
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Post Post #518  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:49 pm

In post 515, Varsoon wrote:@Mephisto: I didn't know for sure that you meant that game and that you didn't mean knowingly. I don't know if I've been town with you outside of that--hadn't we played some games together before? My memory kinda sucks.

Thanks for explaining the +1 thing. I didn't know if it meant that you were handing out townpoints or agreeing or pushing that post forward or what.


I am not aware of any games we’ve played other than Starcraft 1, where you were town in. Oh unless, you’re referring to the game from hell/Drealmer’s RHPS clusterfuck? I don’t think meta is at all reliable from that game.

Yeah, all +1 means, is that I totally agree with whatever was said in that post.
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Post Post #519  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:50 pm

@STW: Alchemist, Taly, all the other Hydras, and Pint, all to some extent.

@Michael Stott: You're all gravy.

@Mephistophanes: Yeah, I think you're right, it was those Drealmerz 'games'. Time to shudder hard and purge my brains again.

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Post Post #520  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:52 pm

Your first sentence implies we're a TR, "gravy" implies mixed feelings though, clarify for me?

~Blah

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Post Post #521  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:54 pm

Oh nevermind.

u r a person 2
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Post Post #522  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:56 pm

@stw I thought you were done with this synchronized hydra nonsense but in retrospect you were just not signing and I was just inferring who was authoring the posts.

This is still scummy

also, I've given enough thought process that I think town!tw has a town read on me here at least 50% of the time

VOTE: shoshin the worst
103-11 0-2

Varsoon
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Post Post #523  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:57 pm

In post 520, Michael Scott wrote:Your first sentence implies we're a TR, "gravy" implies mixed feelings though, clarify for me?

~Blah


It's all Gravy, like it's all Good.
I'm from the deep South
It's all G


-V

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Post Post #524  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:04 pm

In post 498, ProFlavor wrote:someone said something about FL coasting a bit - he always does that. He invited me to hydra with him so I was kinda thinking I'd let him lead proceedings but he is never going to be as active as I am so that approach probably wont help.

I recall someone asking me about my T&L read- its not an amazing read really - BH & GE are both players I approach by saying they are town until they do something scummy because I mostly just don't get any vibe from what they say - I often play with him and people in the player list will be like 'oh gamma/BH is def scum' and I'm just sat here like "am I stupid i do not get that?!"
...but, for example in overkill 2, gamma was obviously defending a scum player so it was obviously AI and led to me copping him.

I'm not sure how far behind as I've skimmed most of the thread but I'll be reading tonight i think.

yeah, i asked those questions, the guy who you are voting for. =P

Do you have any town reads that you are feeling confident in? Taly, maybe?
103-11 0-2

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