Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

[Almost Chara]

specifically, we were told that scum

might

be able to send air units that we would then passively kill. an action that sent one unit over us would be blocked because we killed the unit. an action that sent three light flying units over us would succeed because we only killed two of them. we were never under the impression that we killed players who moved over us, and i believe that's still correct.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Right. So you mean you *block* scum kills when scum tries to kill someone on the opposite side. Am I correct?

not necessarily. we weren't told what sort of actions mafia could take with these units. if the scum kill specifically involved sending two or less light flying air units over us in the list? yes, we would block that.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

@AC: Sorry if I'm being a bit nit-picky here, but why'd you move down SIX spaces on N1? You were at position 5 after STW's lynch; that would only make you have Alch, Creature and Varsoon below you. How is that "in-the-middle"? Explain.

sort of expected others to move down as well. but the bigger reason was to be between scum and our townreads, and to just be near townreads.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

no, it's because none of our abilities were active until after we had rooted during night 1.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i realized the wording of our claim on that was ambiguous. we had no powers until being rooted. it couldn't have been us that blocked it.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

I'll be catching up shortly.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Varsoon: The only thing you've managed to erode -by repeating those lines like a broken record- is my confidence in your

alignment

.

It now feels as if you're trying to play down the "non-existent" doubts about you being on a higher level scum play plan.

Sorry, mate.. but I think you've really overdone it.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

nope. Varsoon is both confirmed town and being 100% genuine. this would be high-level scumplay but it is completely not what Varsoon

as a person

would ever, ever try.
that's not even including the mechanical townclear.

that said: you're being far too hard on yourself. being wrong on somebody's alignment, even for reasons you now regret, does not make you a terrible player and it certainly doesn't affect how you're seen as a person. you made bad calls, so did i. if i'd stuck to my Creature/Taly townread and actually argued for it instead of losing confidence (again), i'd be happier about where we are this game. i also encouraged the Kokichi shot, and so did other players.
and you can learn from the STW thing.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

jjh: Tibor/pintu/mewtaph (voting Tibor)
mewtaph: Michael Scott/jjh (voting jjh)

pintu: jjh/Proflavor/mewtaph (voting jjh)
Proflavor: when will Flavor return from war? profii when you're caught up i'd love to see your reads.

Michael Scott: jjh/Proflavor/mewtaph (voting jjh)
Tibor: jjh/Proflavor/mewtaph (voting jjh)
Alch: Proflavor/mewtaph/Michael Scott

the chunks are in a combination of my own reads and the consensus. the purpose is simply for recording everyone's solves.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

jjh: Tibor/pintu/mewtaph (voting Tibor)
mewtaph: Michael Scott/jjh

pintu: jjh/Proflavor/mewtaph (voting jjh)
Proflavor: when will Flavor return from war? profii when you're caught up i'd love to see your reads.

Michael Scott: jjh/Proflavor/mewtaph (voting jjh)
Tibor: jjh/Proflavor/mewtaph (voting jjh)
Alch: Proflavor/mewtaph/Michael Scott

the chunks are in a combination of my own reads and the consensus. the purpose is simply for recording everyone's solves.
~Chara

EBWOP. mewtaph isn't voting.

this jjh/Proflavor/mewtaph consensus is interesting and almost assuredly wrong. i'm taking the massclaim into account here.
mewtaph is in

every

player's scumlist. what's up with that? feels almost like a designated soft bus if anything.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

lock: Varsoon

town: Alchemist, T&L

townish: Michael Scott

three scum in here:
jjh927
Mewtaph
ProFlavor (Flavor Leaf and profii hydra)
pinturicchio

hm. it matches the lineup i just said was likely incorrect.
i should go back further but for tonight i'm tired. also need to make sure MS isn't just scum stepping up.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i've had Varsoon as confirmed town for most of the game and i can't answer as to why Almost thought otherwise. you'll need to ask him as we didn't discuss it.

i didn't say your solve doesn't fit, i said i found it strange that we had a consensus (mostly) on who the scumteam was, doubly so that it fits mine. feels like scum would not sit idly by while that occurred.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Also, can you walk me through your Alchemist townread? From the game I've read it seems like he's an easy read with a meta of "not having enough presence" as scum. He seemed town to me from play but his post-D1 play feels like it matches that, so I'm getting a bit worried about my read there.

Also, I expected more reactions if we found the scumteam by consensus; why would a scumteam just ignore that?

Also, any pointers from mechanics? Both kills were by Marine fire, that implies ground units, yes? I'm not so good at this, but if you can figure out something it'd be great. One of my concerns with Pint is that he was adjacent to both the NKs.

i thought 2944 was the question about Varsoon, so i'll answer this too.

i don't know what to do about the mechanics, i'm sorry. pintu being adjacent to both NKs is notable. i know you're just trying to figure things out but if you're keen to ask me all of these questions, could you think of some to ask other people besides your townread? i've said i don't have a lot of time and that hasn't changed.

i try not to let good townreads fall away just because the player has been less active. it's a bad trap to fall into unless i get the sense the player is losing steam in looking town (which has happened to me as scum).
Alchemist was really towny earlier and i explained i thought his read on us recently felt very genuine and echoed how i had been feeling earlier in the game.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i would actually prefer a mewtaph lynch over jjh, but both are fine.
lack of activity is a bother and i'm certainly helping with that but nothing i can do about it right now.

was looking over my earlier post and i now see where you got the idea that the massclaim was involved in my lack of faith with this scumteam. because i actually said that.
i don't remember why. i might've meant that i'd properly read the massclaim? i really don't know, because Varsoon is the only player i'm even reading on setup spec.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

@Michael Scott: Mate, I am technically not even following the game since the start of N2. I was paying attention at the start of the game to get preliminary reads to help me know where to root. After that all our abilities are passive, so I don't need to decide on an action, and Chara is a much better player than I am by day, so I just skim the posts in general and make sure our slot is active enough. Chara knows where I stand regarding most slots, but if I have a sudden change of heart I just pop in here to speak my mind. For example, I have no idea who claimed what, because I simply cannot do anything about it anyway.

I hope that answers most of your concerns about my own play of late.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

this is coming from me, and i'm still scumreading jjh, but.
he did explicitly claim he isn't unlimited BP. he didn't say if he was x-shot or not. he could be odd or even night, or something else.
roles that bypass BP would be a strongman.
and he later claimed scum might need to use two kills or something.

jjh does need to fullclaim his BP, i agree with that. how many shots he has and the circumstances of how he might die. but he isn't mechanically confirmed anything.

Mewtaph: you were because of how you seemed to casually be in everyone's scumlist with no one really interested in lynching you. it just was giving me that sort of feeling.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

also i really don't think we need to be doing anything to prevent scum killing Varsoon. no offense to him but when he's this disillusioned with his own play and his chances of winning this game? we don't need to be pulling all these stops to protect him. if i was in his position i certainly wouldn't be happy about being dragged to lylo.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

is jjh still at l-2? i'll probably vote there due to deadline and inactivity. Varsoon shouldn't shoot if he flips town. if he flips scum i think a pintu shot would be best.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Prod received.

hi Alch, remind me where you're at right now? game is super inactive and if MS is power scum we're losing this one. if not i think we're still okay.
jjh feels like an inevitable lynch and that's what worries me about him being town. i know that scum could just not be putting their full effort in, of course, but when it's minimum effort in a gamestate like this to be active, it's a great time for the scum to make sure things are going their way.
it's also very likely we'll die tonight if scum doesn't shoot Varsoon so i'd to talk while i'm still here.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i am only going to read the last 20 or pages. I haven't been keeping up with this.
a summary of important shit would be nice.

i'm town, you're town, and as a collective we have killed a lot of town. that's about it.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

hm. you might be right, actually. i was thinking that pintu scum looked like it'd make sense with this gamestate, especially if jjh flipped town, but i got it confused in my head.
i don't have any strong feelings anymore that jjh will actually flip scum, is the issue. but not lynching him seems foolish.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

VOTE: Proflavor
i'm okay with lynching jjh, however.

Michael: do you also have scum meta on pintu you're using to make that judgement?
my townread on MS is kind of gone, and i feel bad about that because of all of the effort town!MS would be putting in here.

i can't tell if i've got major paranoia right now or not, because Mew and MS's interactions on this page look like SvS and i'm agreeing with Alchemist.
it's a bad sign that i lack townreads because it means my read strength is way down.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i'm also okay voting Mewtaph, should i do that as well?
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Flavor already put down intent to hammer jjh. you don't need my vote on this consensus wagon.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i'm pretty sure jjh and MS are opposite alignments, so i don't hate lynching jjh regardless. that said i don't enjoy voting players i feel will flip town unless it's to avoid a nl.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

He's part of my current solve, I'd rather lynch jjh927 simply because I'm more sure of that slot being scum. FMPOV, one of {T&L|jjh927} is scum and we're really confident on T&L town; whereas I don't share the same confidence in Mewtaph vs Alchemist

are you sure he's part of your solve? the way you've been talking to him recently it looks more like you're convincing him to share your reads and such instead of trying to read him.

as for losing the townread, i don't know. you feel too much like scum seizing an opportunity even if that may not be a fair assessment of your play. things like using the mechanical "one of the BPs has to be scum" as reason for your lynch choices, or that we have to have scum in an air unit claim. and the stuff about protecting Varsoon so he doesn't get nightkilled feels a little foolish when i think he's in a very unlikely position to ever be nightkilled due to his feelings about the game.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i'm pretty sure jjh and MS are opposite alignments, so i don't hate lynching jjh regardless. that said i don't enjoy voting players i feel will flip town unless it's to avoid a nl.
~Chara

Would you feel the same way if it was Kokichi instead of jjh927?

why are you asking this? Kokichi is flipped, it's impossible to think of a hypothetical involving his alignment now. if you have some sort of issue with how i treated Kokichi, present that.

and i thought Kokichi was scum when i said he should be shot. if you mean a consensus scumread, it did not feel like a full consensus like jjh does now.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Wouldn't ProFlavor and jjh927 fall into the same bucket WRT no resistance to being scumread?

Flavor isn't being wagoned, and he was not in danger of being so for most of the game in spite of scumreads. scum soft bus all the time.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Mew, have a skim of Pintu's previous towngames - see if you'd make the same conclusion reading his ISOs there.

The purpose of my asking this was to poke holes at his potential case on Pintu, if that's not clear.

why poke holes in his case if you aren't sure of your own read on pintu?
you presented his meta as a reason to townread him and premptively stop Mew's pintu case, but you're not townreading pintu strongly? why didn't you want the full case to come out?

and i'm still interested if you have accompanying scum meta on pintu.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Also, you forget one thing: The way he reacts to arguments I provide is *really* good material to help me form a read on him.

i disagree about this approach, because if you feed him right answers then he's going to give them. i'm not saying that you shouldn't converse with scumreads (i do it all the time) but if you argue while making what you think he should say obvious, to me at least, what's the point?

[Almost Chara]

Well, do you disagree about "One of the BP claims is scum" or "One of the air units must be scum" arguments? I'm constantly asking for people's thoughts on these, to disagree with me and show me why not. I'm using them to refine and support my solve; could you point me to anything specific conclusion that those arguments help form as opportunistic? Because I have individual reasons to scumread each person in my solve.

i agree about one of the BPs

probably

being scum. i don't disagree that one of the air units is probably scum, even if scum could have fakeclaimed. i suppose i'm inherently distrustful of mechanical arguments?

but now that i think of it, lynching jjh based on the BP claim and townreading Fire slot hard looks awful if jjh flips town, because now you're the suspect BP.
maybe it's just your playstyle and i'm being overly critical.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

3037: okay, i didn't see it that way until you explained it was about the meaningful content specifically.

i guess i'm back to mewtaph/jjh/pintu/proflavor even if it feels strange.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

@AC I'd like you to think about ProFlavor vs Pint and tell me who you think is likelier scum before the hammer happens.

i feel like the answer to this should be really obvious considering one of these is a player i voted and the other one isn't. i think PF is likelier scum.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i feel like the answer to this should be really obvious considering one of these is a player i voted and the other one isn't. i think PF is likelier scum.

If you're sure about this, cool. I'll sheep you on this read.

please don't use this as justification to mislynch anybody if we die, haha.
ahaha..... ahah........
my read on PF is completely opposite to Almost's. i very much hope jjh flips scum.
only two reads you're allowed to sheep me on: Firebringer and Alchemist town. :>
but PF scum makes sense here. especially if jjh is town.
~Chara