mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[mastina]

Hi guys, I am a mason.

[mastina]

VOTE: morning mage imagine not posting on your hydra! gotta be a scumslip <3

Town.

mwahg
VOTE: battle mage

Harooo~
UwU

Town?

anyone who suggests this is scummy, is wrong. it's standard play.

It might be standard play but I still think you're scum from it, anyway.

[mastina]

VOTE: skitter

daykill:A50

Town.

Yes. I’m an alternate account for Barack Obama

ahhhhhh im very confused here. morning is always to be townread, but BM is always to be scumread. now that theyre hydraing i think i have to townread them but hardpush them anyway.
VOTE: morning mage

Town?

[mastina]

I am a vanilla townie
and EchoVision is mafia
VOTE: EchoVision

Town.

[mastina]

Claim Miller Mason, Daycop, scum. - I sleep

Oh in that case I am a mason tracker-inventor N2 doctor.

[mastina]

Greeting

Oh hi there.

Gonna wager a guess and say town.

[mastina]

Youre going to have some very very stiff competition buddy

Town.

[mastina]

Lots of natural feeling early posting....right up until this tryhard fake sounding stuff.

hot take: scum Vecna is upset that I was poo-pooing a Mage and DS wagons.

Hot take: Vecna and Nero are both not scum but will be at each others' throats the majority of the game absolutely

convinced

the other one is.

[mastina]

I *think* I read a Nero game where he was less emotional/aggressive and more on the sidelines. He was a 1-shot scum BP in that one. Someone in that game pointed out he played pretty distinctly different as scum. Makes me inclined to think he's on his town meta right now

Can confirm; I know Nero's scum meta and this isn't it.

[mastina]

Hi guys, I am a mason.

please dont do this, the last time you did this, the game ended up so horrible. #badmemories

Mostly due to you as scum contesting me on the claim and me being right in scumreading you.

[mastina]

Hi mastina

Hi, Menalque!

I don't have any real scumreads tho I'll probably give a gut-shot-in-the-dark-basically-rvs-best-guess vote on Battle Mage, and by and large there's less slots that I have reads on than I'd prefer, but I think the game can get much closer to solved by townhunting here. Or in the case of some slots, a scumread on them by virtue of not having a townread on them.

Will give a readslist momentarily to demonstrate it.

[mastina]

Feeling strongly that (norwee, A50, nero) is a strong starting point for the solve

This is Nero's town meta, so no on that.
I'll admit that I'm not absolutely sure Almost50's town but I do lean that way, too.

But, would listen on Norwee since that's not a slot I know well.

[mastina]

Titus
Nero Cain
Vecna
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox
jjh927
Almost50
Menalque

DiamondSentinel
Pickaxe Pete
Tayl0r Swift

NorwegianboyEE

April Ludgate
PlusJOYED
Christøpher
Bell
superbowl9
Gamma Emerald
EchoVision
DrDolittle

Ban Hydras

Morning Mage

Locktown, Strong town, Weak town, Lean town, big fat ol' pile of dead-null (I realize this pool is too big, I want help in sorting that area), lean scum, and gut-shot-in-the-dark-basically-rvs-best-guess-at-scum-right-now.

VOTE: Morning Mage
To place a vote down on someone.

[mastina]

if ban hydras is scum then I don't think MM is going to be scum.

Quite possible, but I'd love to know the logic there since I don't see anything which makes their interactions definitively not scum-scum.

[mastina]

mastina this is jjh's only real post (the other one was a greeting). how can you be so confident in jjh town based on this?

Because, gut.

Without ISOing, why do you townread Titus

She's my masonbuddy, obv.

@mastina, how sure are you in your d1 locktown reads? without playing with you/knowing your meta well, i have no idea what you mean by locktown here

With the exception of superbowl9, the locktown reads are 100% locktown, zero chance of ever being scum, ever. They are locked town because they are just not scum.

This is, admittedly, largely from meta (and thus also why I say 'with the exception of superbowl9' above, who I've zero meta of). I know the ins and outs of Nero's towngame and scumgame and this is 100% his towngame and literally any player who has seen Nero as town and scum would be able to tell the same, he's literally one of the easiest players onsite to read. I am fairly extensively familiar with Vecna's towngame. I am, admittedly, less familiar with his scumgame, I have to confess, but this is also 100% a perfect match to what I know Vecna's towngame to be, so he's town, too.

The superbowl9 read comes from more or less a very strong overwhelming feeling of gut-town, basically, in thinking overwhelmingly, "I don't see scum doing this, especially not newbscum". That sort of audacity just radiates town to me. I don't have any familiarity with superbowl9, but it's just the sort of thing that

feels

town. If I were to have a locktown read be wrong, it'd be this one, obviously, but I don't think it is wrong because I think that the call to locktown the slot is justified.

Yeah, sorry Nero, I'm not going to be attuned to this at all at the current pace.
4 games to follow.

For the record, have no familiarity with Bell, but this series of posting did make me finally develop a lean on the slot, and it is thus:
VOTE: Bell.

[mastina]

Er. That should read,
*With the exception of samantha.

Samantha's posts gave me overwhelmingly town vibes, the strong gut-town feeling of "I don't see scum doing this, especially not newbscum".
Superbowl's posts give overwhelmingly, "(*static*)".

[mastina]

mastina i have some thoughts about bell. could you talk to me about what pinged you there so i can compare?

Honestly, while Bell's posts were hard to peg down as town or scum either way, given my lack of familiarity for an indicator, my gun-to-head reading of Bell's posts was that, if I had to assign an alignment, scum, but I didn't have anything that really pinged me as truly scum-indicative until that series of posting.

It was mostly 484 screaming being a scumpost (a post disproportionately likely to be made by a scum player, as in, a line that I don't think a town player would ever say), with 486 accentuating it by being another scumpost by excusing lack of content off of bullshit.

487 didn't ping me nearly as hard, but it did seem weakly scum-indicative to me, but unlike the above two, this one being scum to me is mostly just gut.

[mastina]

@Mastina
Why are your scumreads what they are?

Well, I just explained the Bell scumread.

The powerpuff girl hydra scumread comes mostly from feeling like, if they were town, that I

should

be townreading them...and yet, having an utter absence of a townread. They are one of the top-two posters in the game, as in, literally only one slot has more posts than them--plenty of content to sift through for getting a townread.

And yet.

I don't have one on them.

Everything they've done is a big ol' fat pile of null. Nothing that even remotely looks alignment-indicative. And while I realize that there is a lack of scumminess just as much as there is the lack of towniness, in a void, where both are absent, the alignment I'd expect is scum because if they were town I'd expect there to not be the void, I'd expect to have a read one way or another.

So basically, it's an "absence of evidence is evidence itself" sort of scumread.

For the Morning Mage hydra, it's largely similar, with a side of thinking that the Battle Mage from this game might be the same as the Battle Mage from my last game with him--basically, I'm not townreading the slot and I would expect to be townreading the top-poster in the game if they were town. But, this is explicitly not a strong read, because while Battle Mage's opener might've given me minor scumpings, it's not total deja vu, his game here doesn't seem like it's a perfect match to that scumgame, and overall it's not a strong scumread and has a significant chance of being wrong.

Heck, I'd probably call the Morning Mage scumread weaker than the Ban Hydras scumread. It's more or less a scumread for the sake of having a scumread, because in this game I should have five scumreads and right now even including all three, I'd have only three--but really, it's even worse than that; I have only one.

(I have one real scumread and what amounts to two rvs-tier-scumreads, when I need five real scumreads.)

So I've got a while to go yet before I can get so much as an initial solve.

[mastina]

You really need to stop doing this lol. Everytime a few people will notice you locktown people that havent posted and then I just have to defend you for the rest of the game over that nonsense.

All the better to cement my townread on you, tho.

(Not really a joke, actually. When I pull stunts like readslists on players that haven't posted, it genuinely

does

help me get reads on players who know me, by their reactions to it and how they take it.)

I like the thoughts on superbowl here actually. I think im going to sheep that read

I mean, the wall was meant to be about samantha97. I meant to say, "With the exception of samantha97, the locktown reads are 100% locktown, zero chance of ever being scum, ever. They are locked town because they are just not scum.

This is, admittedly, largely from meta (and thus also why I say 'with the exception of samantha97' above, who I've zero meta of). [...] The samantha97 read comes from more or less a very strong overwhelming feeling of gut-town, basically, in thinking overwhelmingly, "I don't see scum doing this, especially not newbscum". That sort of audacity just radiates town to me. I don't have any familiarity with samantha97, but it's just the sort of thing that feels town. If I were to have a locktown read be wrong, it'd be this one, obviously, but I don't think it is wrong because I think that the call to locktown the slot is justified."

That is what I meant to say.

But not gonna lie.

While not to the

locktown

tier I gave to samantha97.

I legitimately am convincing myself that it

does

apply to superbowl9. That superbowl9 is more or less doing the things I said above, too.

[mastina]

It makes me town for today. Deal with it. Mastina and I know how to read each other.

^

Why, isn’t it little ol me, back from perry. Why you all look like a feathered whisper of a crew, a real hoot and a half.

this is probably scum tbh

I'd say that this isn't the April from our last game together where April was scum, but that means basically fuckall of anything given that it's FL and Flavor Leaf not appearing identical to a scumgame doesn't mean he's town.

Which is notably why April remains at a healthy null, in that while I'm sure I'll get a better read on April when FL does FL things, right now there's nothing to gauge there because there's no FL things.

I have such a hard time with Norwee. These two posts so close together show he's really thinking about the game I think or at least Mastina. But he hasn't omgussed yet, which worries me.

Btw am liking Pickaxe Pete for town, too.

Will be giving an updated readslist once caught up.

[mastina]

why does no one else dislike mastina's list like I do?

I do, and i'm tempted to vote there. But i was told they usually make reads lists like that, so i want to at least see what they have to say.

Fun fact: readslists are something that people think I do as either alignment but which I actually have a strong tendency to, in general, not actually make them as scum.

No, really.

I kid you not.

Readslists are something that, as scum, I have a strong tendency to not make.

That doesn't mean that I don't make readslists as scum, of course. I do. But critically, I make them

much, much less frequently

and also far, far less formatted than I do when I'm town*. (As scum I might make an informal readslist of "these people are town, so scum are in these people", but it's not a reads LIST, as in, town to scum, top to bottom, LIST. I have made proper readslists as scum, but they are

very very rare

and when I do make them, I update them with a much lower frequency than I do as town.)

Of course, it's an incredibly subtle thing, subtle enough that I doubt anyone other than me ever noticed it. And me being me, with me obviously aware of it, that means that it's not really a valid tell because obviously, me as scum knowing that I don't make readslists as scum, can make a readslist as scum for the towncred.

But legitimately, if you look at my towngames versus my scumgames in the last three years, you

will

be able to see a notable difference in how frequently I give readslists between alignments. Yet since that'd be thousands of pages' worth of reading material, nobody will ever look into that to verify it. Still, tho. It does make a neat piece of trivia!

*(By the way, the reason that I don't make readslists as often as scum and make them more as town is that readslists are a tool I use to sort my own thoughts out in the open. I need that less as scum for obvious reasons, but as town, making readslists is a way that lets me compare players and my feelings about them to help sort them into where I feel they should be. Just by organizing names into a list, I can get my thoughts more coherent and also am better at spotting things than I would be otherwise.)

[mastina]

she usually locktown or strongly townreads my joking around though, so curious to hear the difference this time

@mastina

Because I didn't get townpings from it at all.

It makes me town for today. Deal with it. Mastina and I know how to read each other.

There is no way Titus writes this and doesn't think "Everyone is going to want to kill me after this." she's practically asking to be voted! i'm confused how to interpret it, other than noting this must just be how she tends to talk i suppose. Really confident even if it sounds super bad
~Morning

Oh I imagine it is inviting people to kill her, but the people that she thinks will kill her don't operate using nooses, they use bullets.

I’d be posting way more if I were scum here, Menalque. Go check Animal U pick. I’ve read like nothing of this game. Bad time for me to have it start. I’m tryin to catch up.

For the record, can mostly vouch for this, with a caveat: FL has had lurker-scum-games where he was scum and was playing similarly to how April is now. (So basically, can vouch that 699 is accurate--incidentally, that is the first post from Ban Hydras I've seen that has made me think "this slot might be town", in that literally all posts before didn't give me town or scum vibes but this one post did give minor town vibes.)

Which is why I am more or less saying, not town yet, but also not scum yet, will get a better read when April does more FL things.

[mastina]

i feel like the potential benefit from a mastina scumflip today is massively outweighed by the drawbacks of flipping town!mastina, and in any case she seems to be making a concentrated effort to gamesolve, but i'm not sure if that's nai for her.

(For the record, in the last year or so, my scumgame has been utter garbage and I haven't been able to effort as scum at all. Dunno why, but it's just. Not had the magic. So, yes, as scum I've been largely worthless as a player and yes. As scum, I have not efforted/gamesolved at all, so yes, efforting a gamesolve

is

alignment-indicative to me, at least in the last year. You never know, maybe, mystically, magically, for some ungodly reason, this game randomly is the game where scumastina regains her moxie and becomes the menace of ol'. But it hasn't happened yet and you have my guarantee that it didn't happen this game. )

furthermore, your vote on me because i'm openly defending her implies that you either think i'm scum trying to pocket/defend a townie or we're scum together, implying the latter because apparently you also believe she is scum. want to elaborate on this a lil?

On that note: consider me pocketed because I

am

townreading you now.

[mastina]

This is what I do most games I’m scum in and Mastina is in the game.

(For the record, push come to shove, if I had to sort April it would be town, but it's with the caveat that it's not a strong read because April's not doing anything that's strongly alignment-indicative. But I do get townvibes off of what little April is doing along with the contrast to established usual scumplay.)

[mastina]

This is just a long way of saying BoP

It's not BoP tho.

Burden of Proficiency requires Proficiency--competency, accuracy, whathaveyou.
You don't need to be proficient/accurate/competent in order for me to have a townread on you--you just need to do anything that makes me think you're town.

And until 699 there was literally nothing that gave me that.

[mastina]

Titus
Nero Cain
Vecna
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox
Menalque

Pickaxe Pete
jjh927
Almost50

Tayl0r Swift
April Ludgate
superbowl9

DiamondSentinel
NorwegianboyEE

Christøpher

PlusJOYED
EchoVision
DrDolittle
Gamma Emerald

Morning Mage
Ban Hydras

Bell


Locktown, locktown-candidates (not quite locktown but very very strong townreads I'm considering bumping up to locktown), strong town, weak town, nulltown (with heavy ambivalence), dead-null, nullscum, ambivalent-nullscum (this might take some explaining, it's basically a category where when I think of them in one side they'd be above the nullscum as either null or even nulltown, but when I think of them on the other side they're below nullscum in lean scum and they do go between those extremes), and scum.

[mastina]

Titus
Nero Cain
Vecna
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox
Menalque

Pickaxe Pete
jjh927
Almost50

Tayl0r Swift
April Ludgate
superbowl9

DiamondSentinel
NorwegianboyEE

(Morning Mage
Ban Hydras)

Christøpher

PlusJOYED
EchoVision
DrDolittle
Gamma Emerald

(Morning Mage
Ban Hydras)

Bell


Locktown, locktown-candidates (not quite locktown but very very strong townreads I'm considering bumping up to locktown), strong town, weak town, nulltown (with heavy ambivalence), dead-null, nullscum, ambivalent-nullscum (this might take some explaining, it's basically a category where when I think of them in one side they'd be above the nullscum as either null or even nulltown, but when I think of them on the other side they're below nullscum in lean scum and they do go between those extremes), and scum.

This is a perhaps better illustration of the readslist--Morning Mage and Ban Hydras in their townier moments are up there, Morning Mage and Ban Hydras in their less-townie moments are down there, and the read is highly ambivalent between the two extremes. (There's no middle ground. Just one, or the other.)

[mastina]

As scum would you be above claiming set up ignorance for easy town points?

I don't fake ignorance, but that doesn't mean scumastina can't be genuinely ignorant.

I never fake a mistake, but I can genuinely make a legit mistake.

[mastina]

But you have an expectation that you should be having a townread on them, that's the part you left out.

Yes, there is an expectation that I should be townreading them.

That expectation is not burden of proficiency, because burden of proficiency is an expectation of shown demonstrated competency/accuracy.

My expectation requires no skill, no competency, no accuracy.

Just the presence of being town.

I've only seen one post that gave me that feeling at all.

One post

can

be enough, sometimes, but one post can also be scum having made one good post among hundreds of not-as-good posts.
So I want more from them to better judge the slot and get a better read, if the one post was a fluke of them being scum and happening to briefly say something that looked town, or if the one post was just the first of many town posts to follow.

[mastina]

I don't understand why you have this expectation for only this slot though, if you're not BoPing shouldnt this apply to everyone

It does, actually, unless I have meta indicating to me that a lack of town/scum isn't a scum-indicator.

By default, given enough posts from a user and with no meta suggesting otherwise, a lack of a read one way or another would be a minor scum-indicator.

[mastina]

P.S. NOT EVEN if she rolls Vig, as -according to her- Vihilante is anti-Town and should always holster.

Oh heavens no.

Vigilantes aren't anti-town.

ME getting a vigilante IS anti-town.

And, there is a caveat to me and Vig powers.
If I am in a "use it or lose it" situation with a vig, I will in fact use it.
If the vig is gated significantly, I will probably use it at least once.
If the game is on evens and I am fairly sure my vig is the only way to get to odds, I will use it.
If I need to prove that I have the vig power, then I will use it.

Generally speaking, that means that I actually will use a vig shot in quite a lot of cases--but only if one (or ideally, more) of the criteria above are met.

Otherwise, I will indeed holster because fuck giving me a vig, my townreads are always more accurate than my scumreads so I'm disproportionately likely to shoot town, making it an antitown role for ME to have.

[mastina]

VOTE: Gamma
Gamma has been on MS for 4.5 hours now. He made 47 public posts (the last if which was maybe 2 minutes ago) but is yet to even make an ego post in this game.

I do seem to recall the last time Gamma did that, he was scum, so consider me in support of this. (I like my Bell vote more, but in spirit I am with you here and will happily switch.)

[mastina]

I wanna vote you for this.
But I feel so bad about misreading you and making an ass out of myself that I want to vote with you instead. :3

(Inb4 Bell-Gamma as part of the scumteam. )

[mastina]

why do you need 5 real scumreads?

Because that'll be the number of scum in this game.

It's too large for four scum but too small for six scum. schadd_'s MBOS games are heavily vanilla, utterly ruling out six scum, but while they may be heavily vanilla, I don't see a world in which the setup is balanced with only four scum; there needs to be a fifth.

Thus, I need five real scumreads.

[mastina]

Which game was this? I can meta dive you if you want but I'd rather hear from you.

I honestly don't remember.

made me want to lynch him so....IT DID!

^

VOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Gamma
Sheeping my masonbuddy.

[mastina]

Gamma I’m finally gonna guillotine you like a year later, I’m excited

Pfffft

Okay fuckit, Mena moves to locktown. <3

[mastina]

Hey mastina, I was gonna vote Titus
Can you confirm once more your strong disagreement with this course of action

Absolutely.
If you voted Titus I wouldn't instavote you because you're enough of a troll to vote locktown reads of mine even as town.

But if there were a gladiate between you and Titus, I would lynch you 200% of the time here. I wouldn't be happy doing it because I believe you're town--but in a contest between the townitude of you and Titus, Titus wins by a landslide. She's never getting lynched as long as I live.

[mastina]

Okay my role is like, the worst imaginable that could be assigned to jjh927

Funny, my role is, like, the best imaginable that could be assigned to mastina.

[mastina]

When Mastina shows up at the same time as me I'll roleclaim and get to some serious discussion about which of the people who I've played with extensively decided to give me this role

Not gonna lie.

I think people are interpreting "themes of the series" to be "theme of this game specifically".
Wherein I think that's mistaken, that they're being too literal, and that schadd_ meant

across all ten MBOS games

.

I am of the belief that, no, not every role in this game was assigned by the scum to the town before roles were handed out.

[mastina]

Subject: mystery box of silver ten: titans of the votehouse LETSA GO

motifs of the series:

assignment of roles to town by mafia; heavy information to mafia; night actions being determined by events (e.g., two players are assigned to collaboratively use a doctor ability); normal roles or otherwise non-flashy roles; uncertain guilties vs. certain innocents; setup fake-outs; vanilla by any other name tastes just as sweet.

Like.
People are interpreting this to mean.
"Motifs of this game, mystery box of silver 10".
I interpreted it as "motifs of this series, mystery box of silver".

[mastina]

plusjoyed is pinging me so hard

Yup, I see that.

Not convinced in PlusJoyed being scum, but if I had to make a D1 solve, it'd be in the realms of,
{PlusJoyed, Bell, Gamma}, plus two of {maybe-maybe-MAYBE-Taylor, possibly-NorwegianBoyEE, potentially-Morning Mage, potentially-Ban Hydras}.

In the latter group of four, if I had to guess: probably one from the former two, and one from the latter two.

I'd have to reread the interactions of everyone from DiamondSentinel and below in my last readslist, in regards to each other, to find and reform a more exact solve. (Because there's also the chance the do-nothingers of Christopher and DDL could be scum. Also, EchoVision is a scum candidate, but not on the same tier as Plus/Bell/Gamma are.)

I feel like if I put a little more time into those sorts of interactions I can get close to a more exact solve.

Not gonna lie tho--today I wasn't actually feeling up to posting, but I realized I needed to in order to stay up to date in the game so I'm actually too tired to do that more refined searching.

I do feel like I'm on the right track, seeing the right idea, just need to hone in and perfect it when more of my mind is available.

[mastina]

What are those townier/less towny moments, I thought you said it was just all null?

For your hydra, 699 is the townier moment, tho there may be more in the more recent posting (too tired to sift through and judge more accurately).

The more scum moment is the lack of radiating town along with maybe who you're pressuring/defending/not pressuring/not defending. (Which, again, I need to look at in more detail, because I feel like I am on the right track to a solve, that I have honed in on the right area, it just needs to be refined and perfected, and you're one of the players that needs to be analyzed to see if you fit as more likely town or scum in a five-man scumteam unit.)

[mastina]

Tempted to say we should unironically quicklaunch Gamma. Him ignoring my vote or Nero's declaration that he's scum while catching up is also scum-indicative.
Also, don't get scared by how quickly the wagon is growing. Scum are gonna want the sweet sweet buscred for this.
~Buttercup

This is very reasonable.
-Blossom

Ah, right, this would be another of the more townie posts.
Regardless of Gamma's alignment, actually (Gamma flipping town doesn't make the post look less town to me, but--see rest of sentence), and probably something that indicates not-SvS with Gamma.

[mastina]

@Diamond, Talk to me about your BH and superbowl9 scumreads.

BH - The constant flippancy between the heads screams of an attempt to keep people from getting a coherent read, which is itself a read.
Superbowl - Oh gosh, where to start. The constant proclamations that they're town (no really, trust them on this). Town never have to say that they're town. It's implied in what they say and how they say it. A complete lack of any transparency about their thought process. The only thing remotely towny about them is their insistence on gutreads, but given that that's about all they've done, that's deserving of a policy elim just the same. (note that my desire to remove them is not policy. It is genuine scumread. I'm saying the only thing town-like of them deserves a policy)

This does make me feel better about DiamondSentinel, tho.

So like.

Where I'm at is basically.

Titus
Nero Cain
Vecna
Menalque
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox
jjh927

superbowl9
Pickaxe Pete
Almost50

DiamondSentinel
Ban Hydras
April Ludgate

Christøpher

EchoVision
DrDolittle
(Morning Mage, NorwegianboyEE*, Tayl0r Swift*)

PlusJOYED

Gamma Emerald
Bell

Locktown, locktown-candidates, strong-town, tentative-town, dead-null, final two scum candidates, scumread, strong scumreads.

*Notably, neither of these two on their own would be pinging me and in a void I'd think both to be town, but given the interactions I remember with them and those around/below them in the readslist, with who they are pressuring/defending/not pressuring/not defending, to my memory that makes them scum candidates because it feels like possible-scumbuddy stuff.

[mastina]

If you don't have a solve by the time I've reached page 40 then you go down in my estimate from 'probably a good' to 'all smoke & ego - not worth listening to'. This is going to be interesting to see.

I know I’m late but how does (superbowl, plus, gamma, Taylor) sound as a starting point

I'm pretty sure superbowl is town here--I disagree with a lot of superbowl's reads and takes, but I genuinely just ~feel~ like they come from town.

Now, for the other three there--definitely got my backing there as I am seeing similar and looking in the same place.
(So basically, if you subbed superbowl out and placed Bell in, you'd be pretty much almost exactly where I am at.)

[mastina]

Good call. We should probably discuss nightkills in there, Blossom.
~Buttercup

(For the record, this is more of the :townvibes: I was wanting to see, so, yes, I am indeed feeling much better about Ban Hydras right now--probably need to move them up into 'town' from their position in 'tentative town'. Not to the 'strong town' category, but I think they deserve at least more than a 'tentative'.)

[mastina]

Gamma Emerald

(8):

Almost50

,

Ban Hydras

,

Nero Cain

,

Pickaxe Pete

,

Menalque, Titus, superbowl9

,

NorwegianboyEE

Ban Hydras

(3):

PlusJOYED

,

DiamondSentinel

,

Christøpher

Where green = locktown, blue = strong town, cyan = town, white = tentative town, gray = dead null, yellow = possible scum, orange = scum, red = strong scum.

Take a guess as to which wagon I think is on scum and driven by town, and which wagon I think is on town and driven by scum.

[mastina]

I see this is the coolkid wagon.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I don't highly scumread Gamma, but they haven't really towntold.

VOTE: Norwee
Opportunistic wagon hop on a likely town + disclaimer = scumtell. Discuss

I have an alternative take.
You're dead on the money on the opportunistic hop-on with the disclaimer being a scum indicator.

My thought is that it is an awkward attempt at forcing a bus on a scumbuddy tho.

[mastina]

im null on norwee atm. My attention has been kinda focused elsewhere; I'm not even gonna try to pay attention to every single slot. that's the problem with a huge plist.
I prefer a power puff elim over battle mage elim. I actually want a hydra elim today though.

(This does add fuel to my fire in thinking that Plus-Gamma-Bell-Norwegian-MorningMage has a reasonably high chance of containing at least 3, probably at least four, scum. Maybe not all five are scum, heck maybe two are town, but I do think that those five names contain a minimum of 3 scum, probably more, right now.)

[mastina]

I don't like Mastina's intro - I'd hope her reads includes a bit more nuance than what is represented.

Oh they do, and since I kinda feel like uniting my townbloc and getting to the honing in/refining process by using them as sounding boards, I do need to give that more in-depth thorough readslist. Not today (I'm actually borderline-delirious right now, I dunno why but I feel lightheaded, kinda dizzy, in spite of being well-hydrated and well-rested and having stayed on top of taking vitamins and not being stomach-churningly hungry, so I'm not up to it in the moment), but I feel like I'm ~in the zone~, and just need some help from the towncore to perfect it.

The game feels close to locked, I just need to push it over the edge and will give the extended extensive version of the readslist when I am physically able to do so. (Hopefully, tomorrow, with luck at least.)

[mastina]

is april someone i should be aware of?

I seem to recall you and Flavor Leaf/Boonskiies/thisdudehasliterallydozensofaltschooseanameofhisofyourpreference have rather extensive history together and know each other extremely well--so yes, you absolutely should. April Ludgate is a public alt of Flavor Leaf/Boonskiies.

[mastina]

Anyway so I'm ascetic

Townbin it is.

(I realize schadd_ can and has made scum ascetics.
I just don't think jjh is one.)

[mastina]

Mastina why are you so bad at reading me if you’re town?

If you're town--I've never played with you before and have absolutely zero gauge on what is town or scum from you, so rely on more generic standards, and by those standards, a lot of your play in the middle of your iso looks like scumplay and your early play if I had to give a gun-to-head reading of would've been scum (tho I admit that if given the option, your early play I'd categorize as null).

Admittedly, your most recent posting has thrown that into doubt because by those same generic standards, your more recent posting doesn't look like scum.

So I'm not quite sure where to sort you right now, and I'll fully own up to that.

[mastina]

Titus
Nero Cain
Vecna
Menalque
jjh927
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox

superbowl9
Pickaxe Pete
Almost50

Ban Hydras

DiamondSentinel
April Ludgate

Bell
Christøpher

EchoVision
DrDolittle
(Morning Mage, NorwegianboyEE*, Tayl0r Swift*)

PlusJOYED

Gamma Emerald

Locktown, locktown-candidate, strong-town, town, tentative-town, dead-null, final three scum candidates, scumread, strong scumread.

Updated readslist.
I promise, when able to I will explain these as best as I can.

[mastina]

As scum, how easily do you find it faking this kind of fire to solve the game?
~Morning

Well let me put it this way.

Including alts of mine, I don't think I've ever faked it more than five times across what has to have been over 100 scumgames, maybe over 200 scumgames at this point.

That is to say. I vaguely think that, at some points in my mafiascum scum career on some accounts, maybe I managed to fake this gamesolving fire before, it seems like something I might've managed to have done before.

But in general?

By and large, generally speaking?

Those games, if they even exist, are the exception to the rule that, no, as scum, I don't really fake gamesolving fire*, because doing so would be incredibly hard for me to manage. (Heck, if I've done it before at all as scum, it probably involved a bus, because I legit don't think I could've done it while fingering exclusively town.)

*(Should be noted: multiball doesn't count, because as scum if I can genuinely scumhunt by searching for the other scumteam, I will have legit genuine gamesolving fire, but that goes basically without saying. In a singleball game, scumastina doesn't have that ability to fake a gamesolving fire.)

On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is "it's incredibly easy to fake a gamesolving fire" and 10 is "it's literally impossible to fake a gamesolving fire", this is a solid 9--not completely and entirely utterly impossible, but very close to.

[mastina]

Okay my role is like, the worst imaginable that could be assigned to jjh927

Funny, my role is, like, the best imaginable that could be assigned to mastina.

Bullet-Proof Godfather??

Nah, I'm not a good enough scum player to have any scum role be the best role.

[mastina]

@mastina
What has superbowl done that’s led to your TRing him?

General aura of towniness, basically. The things superbowl have done don't look like scum and many actually look town. The things he's saying, the places he's pushing, they look town to me because they don't look like scum at all and I just get strong town vibes from his posting.

I honestly don't get what superbowl has done that's led to people scumreading him, other than him having whacky reads/reasons--something that's not a scumtell and in fact I'd argue is a bit of a towntell.

[mastina]

mastina

did it (albeit in more style as always) and coupled with her weird push on Gamma vs Norwee I am truly and utterly worried she might have rolled scum here

I am the opposite of scum this game.

I am fairly certain you're town, now, given what I know about the game.

I'll admit tho--I don't exactly fully trust your claim. I just don't think you're scum for it, I am convinced you're town and probably legit are a miller at the very least. That is to say, I 100% believe you are town; I 99% believe you are a miller; I only 80% believe you're a mason, if that makes sense.

[mastina]

mastina? She does it every game, it's completely NAI.

Not so, it absolutely is alignment-indicative because I've never done it as scum before.

[mastina]

I'll even give you one more bit of info: It does NOT return a "scum" result to an alignment Cop. Instead, it returns a 3P result. I won;t tell you the "full" name of the PT, but it starts with "Goliath". The rest I won't reveal for "reasons"

Given what I know about the setup, I have good reason to believe Almost50 is not faking this information and I believe is being truthful here.

[mastina]

so, we kill one of the two who've outed to make sure it's true then go from there?

I am going to have to fight against everyone to convince them that Almost50 and superbowl9 here aren't scum, won't I?

I am 100% convinced scum do not claim this way in this fashion.

And I have good reason to believe they aren't fakeclaiming, that they are realclaiming, that they are telling the truth and that they are truthfully giving unfakeable information that scum would be unlikely to know.

[mastina]

incidentally: "uncertain guilties vs certain innocents, setup fake-outs" makes me think this could be a thing, but idk if A50, superbowl, and the third have enough experience with MBoS games to come up with this fake claim as scum

They're not fakeclaiming; they're town. I'm sure of it.

[mastina]

At least this gets us closer to lynching Taylor.

This I can get behind tho.

I already had superbowl9 as locktown, this cements that and adds Almost50 who was a strong townread to the locktown.

I legit feel that gives us the POE to win the game on D1. Knowing the third would help depending on who the third is, but:
Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Vecna
Menalque
jjh927
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox

Pickaxe Pete

Ban Hydras

DiamondSentinel
April Ludgate

Bell
Christøpher

EchoVision
DrDolittle
(Morning Mage, NorwegianboyEE*, Tayl0r Swift*)

PlusJOYED

Gamma Emerald

Look at how many locktown we have here even without knowing the third in Almost50's faction.

With a locktown candidate in TheGoldenParadox.
And a strong town read on Pickaxe Pete.
And a townread on Ban Hydras.

With tentative townreads on DiamondSentinel and April Ludgate (possibly Bell?).

If the third member of Almost50's faction is not in the remainder, that's 8 names for five scum--literally a 5/8 chance of hitting scum.
If the third member of Almost50's faction is in the remainder, that's 7 names for five scum--a 5/7 chance of hitting scum.

I legit think the game is solved with a little bit of faith that Almost50/superbowl9 are legit, which I have good reason to believe they are.

[mastina]

whats your role name in the pm?

GOLIATH GOUTHWITS HEALTH INTERNS

Story checks out.

[mastina]

whats your role name in the pm?

Is that for me?? Nod told me I was a GOLIATH [something, something, something] and I said I won't be outing the rest of it for <reasons>. Role description though was in the mod's opening post inside the PT. In other words, I wasn't told my alignment or my abilities in my role PM. Just the name and a link to the PT.

Again: story checks out.

[mastina]

I think it's much more pro-town on D1 to find a slot that seems scummy, run them up, get their flip and then proceed from there on D2 with the added benefit of being able to start looking at VCA and being able to use NKA

I don't think it's possible to lynch mafia d1 in a game this size unless most of them are afk

It is if you have a strong established townbloc going and recognize it as such and aren't afraid to take a small risk.

I feel like I have good reason for townlocking everyone in my locktown category--even you, who is admittedly the weakest of the locktown category and the name I'd be most likely to be wrong on.

I legitimately feel like we have at least a 5/8 chance of lynching scum, just by virtue of not lynching someone that's got a good reason to be townread--and on that note I feel like I will need to explain/justify my townreads here because I feel like I am

right

on them. Just need to get caught up first.

[mastina]

gamma seems scummy here?

scummy enough, sure
I'd also be fine with Taylor or plus, the important thing is to pick one, build up consensus votes and get that claim/flip

^This.

But that said,

I'm not saying we have to milk every second of the deadline but I don't really see the harm in holding off for a day or 2.

^This, too.

I do have affairs to get in order before the day ends, mostly in the realm of explaining my reads and convincing people to follow them, that I'm not wrong in them, so a little time to manage that would be appreciated.

[mastina]

tend to scumread me early on because of my weak early game

So I think a lot of players they think they are some kind of "end game" player or...like I always see players say they are trash early game and shine like a star near endgame. So this game off genuine to me and generally genuineness is towny.
Am I like on to something here or is this just stupid and I should ignore my faulty gut?

Nero that literally sounds like a generic sentence that someone as any alignment will say about their play as an alignment.

People don't townread me for saying, "I tend to do this thing", or "I don't do this thing"--Taylor's statement was literally along those lines.

[mastina]

From personal experience 4 scum is possible, but it needs to be HEAVILY vanilla

We've had three basically-masons claimed with extra power roles beyond that either claimed or hinted at.

This aint a heavily-vanilla game.

Thus, five scum.

[mastina]

Would picked a different clip from this character but it was taking too long to find a good version of the clip.

I can hook you up.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdxZ_mrXHXo[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHLDFYnptbE[/youtube]
(There's a third instance, but I don't wanna link to that one because that route is legit the saddest route in the entirety of the series. *sniff* )

[mastina]

Whoops.

Would picked a different clip from this character but it was taking too long to find a good version of the clip.

I can hook you up.


(There's a third instance, but I don't wanna link to that one because that route is legit the saddest route in the entirety of the series. *sniff* )

Fixed.

[mastina]

I’d share this with you in our scum PT but i can’t post there for scum reason. <3

Okay yeah Bell earns the lean town from this.

So, definitely only 8 possible slots for 5 scum.

[mastina]

Yeah that video (it’s specifically joking about how you and SB9 were out of sync)

For the record, the Ellie route contains much better visual gags for being out of sync--sometimes even in the successes.

[mastina]

Really

Huh. Now I'm a bit concerned that scum really

did

assign roles. If they chose the masonry to be these 3 slots

I mean.
To some extent, that'd be hilarious given my role (you'd think scum would know

not

to give me that sort of thing), so it's not 100% wholly out of the question, but I still sincerely doubt that.

And, to reiterate, since the third mason was indeed in the group of 8, it is now a group of 7, which has five scum in it.
To wit,

Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Tayl0r Swift
Vecna
Menalque
jjh927
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox

Pickaxe Pete

Ban Hydras

Bell
DiamondSentinel
April Ludgate

Christøpher

EchoVision
DrDolittle
(Morning Mage, NorwegianboyEE*)

PlusJOYED

Gamma Emerald

Titus is locktown because she is 100% town here with everything she's done and said.
Nero and Vecna will both protest to this comparison, but both Nero and Vecna have incredibly similar playstyles, where they're blunt, abrasive, rude, arrogant, and loud, with them being rather vocal about their stances/beliefs and being convinced they are right. So much so, that when the two are in the same game it is almost an inevitability that, due to their similarities, they will inherently scumread the other--but this is just the proof that they are both town.

Almost50, superbowl9, and Tal0r Swift are a third party that I fully believe is legit in being basically town, fitting with the information I know from my own role.

Menalque has synergized fairly well with me, has said a bunch of stuff that I believe to be town, generally has the aura of towniness, and is a voice of relative reason and is pushing in good places, all good signs for Menalque being town.

jjh's approach to this game I don't believe is scum. I believe he is ascetic, and I don't think ascetic is a scum role, here. In fact, I have good reason to believe there'd be a town ascetic in the game, given what I know about the setup from my own role.

The weakest of these locktowns is samantha--I have no meta there but samantha just radiates town to me.
I get that samantha's got not much content and the content that does exist is fairly lackluster--but samantha is far from the guiltiest offender, and the content while being lackluster just radiates town.

TheGoldenParadox, I really liked in the earlygame, though I admit his more recent content is of a nature that makes me not want to locktown him. Still, the promising early nature I feel does indicate a town mindset.

Pickaxe Pete has seemed town to me the whole time.

Ban Hydras is a hydra that I feel people are annoyed at for being 'spammy'--but spammy does not equate to scummy, and when it comes to their content, their stances and pushes are all reasonable, with good logic behind them and their conclusions being ones that are fair to have been made. Even if you think those conclusions suck/are wrong, many are ones that I myself understand how they formed and feel they were made from a stance that scum wouldn't take.

Bell's content has been getting better and better as the day has gone on, looking more and more town.

DiamondSentinel has loosely townpinged me from his own contributions to the game.

April Ludgate, is indeed different from most iterations of scum-FL. It's not impossible for this to be a scum-FL, but it's incredibly unlikely to be a scum-FL, and he's made a few comments here and there that seem loosely town-indicative for him.

Thus.
For five scum.
There's seven names:
Christopher, EchoVision, DrDoLittle, Morning Mage, NorwegianBoyEE, PlusJoyed, and Gamma Emerald.

[mastina]

Taylor OBVIOUSLY knew she would be called out on her fake claim, so I am not sure that would earn her any scum points. She was just being playful IMHO.

Oh.

Taylor back in the scumbin goes I guess.

Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Vecna
Menalque
jjh927
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox

Pickaxe Pete

Ban Hydras

Bell
DiamondSentinel
April Ludgate

Christøpher

EchoVision
DrDolittle
(Morning Mage, NorwegianboyEE*, Tayl0r Swift*)

PlusJOYED

Gamma Emerald

[mastina]

why is no one concerned that no real counterwagon has formed to gamma?

Because there's been no less than three?

There have been counterwagons, real ones, so nobody's concerned about a lack of a counterwagon because there isn't a lack of a counterwagon.

if the best ally gamma has is me saying "theres something questionable there but i dunno about a 10-person wagon" then where are the scumbuddies and why arent they doing anything to help?

Well, what can the scumbuddies do to help? This game has a bunch of people who're painfully obviously town. They butt heads a bunch, and misread each other a fair amount, but push come to shove most of them aren't getting lynched.

So if the obvious town aren't getting lynched.

What can scum try to do?

They can try to lynch the players who aren't obviously town, but that list is fairly thin, considering most of the scum are going to be within that list.

also why does the gamma wagon, as weak as it seems to be, have such longevity?

Why wouldn't it? There's a bunch of noise in the game, a lot and a lot of noise, and people going back and forth on their stances. The Gamma wagon has risen and shrunk as people have hopped off to pursue their vanity scumreads and as people have hopped back on trying to reform the cohesion/unity.

Plus, a wagon persisting does not make the wagon be on town. (Battle Mage can attest to that as the last time he and I played together, he was the leading wagon for 3/4ths of D1 before he replaced out, and for some time after that, too. Titus can also attest to this as she defended Battle Mage that game using your same logic--but she was wrong to have done so because surprise surprise, the neverending wagon on Battle Mage

was

on scum.)

Also, when the town is more or less mostly in the correct area, even if they don't fully agree--it makes a lot of sense for them to be united in the wagon.

And a critical question about the Gamma wagon the Gamma Emerald defenders can't answer--

who are the alleged scum pushing the Gamma wagon?

If you can't provide them, then the wagon is, inherently, not driven by scum. And if the wagon is, inherently, not driven by scum, then it's not a town-indicator for the wagonee to have the wagon have such longevity.

[mastina]

Is this Gamma being Gamma?

If by that you mean Gamma being probable-scum, then yes.

[mastina]

Is this Gamma being Gamma?

no it's gamma being scum

It's posts like this, by the way, where Menalque says what I was thinking before I said them, that reaffirm my confidence that Mena is town, by the way.

[mastina]

norwee is out here waving a massive neon sign yelling "hi, i'm norwee, and i rolled scum!" this is the most ballsy opportunistic wagon hopping i've seen in a while.

And here is the Golden Paradox that I was townreading so hard that I considered locktowning him. <3

He's dead on the money about NorwegianboyEE's opportunism. It applies to Ban Hydras for sure, and regardless of Gamma's alignment is applicable to Gamma as well. (Gamma as scum? Norwegian's hop-on was an absolute bus. Gamma as town? Norwegian is literally one of the only scum on the wagon, with it being opportunistically hopping on a free mislynch.)

[mastina]

Also if gamma actually flips red yall are gonna have a lotttttttt of explaining to do

^This, for any Gamma/Norwegian/Talor Swift/Christopher/DDL/Morning Mage/EchoVision/Plus defenders, really.

Any of them flipping scum, you defenders got some 'splainin' to do, especially if you pushed for the mislynch of a flipped town player instead of the scum. (Looking at you, people pushing for the lynches of players like Ban Hydras.)

[mastina]

If one more person says DAE GAMMA TOO EZ??? MAYB TOWN??? Im gonna blow a gasket

+++++++++++++++++++
Sometimes the quickly growing wagon is just scum because they're acting scummy.

^

But clearly A50 and Superbowl don't really agree with each other in the slightest.
It's actually making me townread them, if they were scum would they really put in this much theater?

I very strongly empathize with this and echo the sentiment, that disagreeing this strongly with each other and having that level of dissonance does more or less prove that yes they are legit. (It's a feeling I know all too well.)

Gamma Emerald

(8):

Ban Hydras

,

Pickaxe Pete

,

Menalque, Titus, superbowl9

,

NorwegianboyEE

,

mastina

,

Morning Mage

Ban Hydras

(6):

PlusJOYED

,

DiamondSentinel

,

Christøpher

,

Nero Cain, samantha97

,

Gamma Emerald

NorwegianboyEE

(3):

Almost50

,

DrDolittle

,

TheGoldenParadox

"There's no Gamma counterwagon", they said.

[mastina]

ban hydras is town

Agreed. (And more :goodposting: from GoldenParadox, too.)

[mastina]

Surprisingly, gamma is totally fine with it

Funny that

Almost as if Gamma has a good reason to not sus Tayl0r.

[mastina]

My thoughts are Samantha is probably scum who stopped caring and TMI knows the slot is town so they know it actually did get confirmed, even if people don’t see it like that.

I've the opposite thought--if samantha thought the game were compromised as scum, samantha would air those grievances with the mod in the scum PT...not in-thread.

That samantha aired that belief in-thread rather than privately is proof that samantha is town.

[mastina]

The L word

Lesbian?
"The other L-word."
...Lesbians?

[mastina]

I think I might know what you’re getting at here mastina

Wouldn't surprise me, I've been incredibly unsubtle about it.

[mastina]

I’m pretty sure A50 and I have been Miller Masons together before, so it’s funny we got it again

Oh is this an actual real claim of third? I'd believe it if so.

[mastina]

Tbh I really need a place where I can ramble away from the thread so if anyone's a neighborizer please target me

VOTE: Gamma

I was already voting Gamma but I have good reason to believe that this is a TMI slip from Gamma.

[mastina]

3 posts ago you said there was a 20% chance they were fakeclaiming.

And that was to the initial claim, which was shown to be not quite accurate. (And notably I said that the 20% chance of them fakeclaiming was still them as town, not as scum.)

To the revised fullclaim, that's 100% not a fakeclaim. They're telling the truth; I'm sure of it.

[mastina]

Mastina, why did bell move up?

Because the more and more Bell posts, the more and more town I see in his posting.

Also why is echo so low

Better question; what the fuck in Echo's posting makes anyone so convinced he's town? There's literally nothing town in that iso at all.

why is TGP near locktown?

Strongly town earlygame posting and strongly town more recent posting--I admit his middle posting is a little less town, but overwhelmingly his posts just look town, saying things that resonate with me in a similar manner to how things you say resonate with me.

[mastina]

Not sure samatha's gonna be in the game much longer my friend

Then even more reason to kill her.

No, getting a replacement is better, given the slot is town, and thus the town replacement will be able to town it up and reaffirm their place in my townbloc is justified.

[mastina]

He’s not whining enough to be scum.

I suggest you read Gamma again given there is plenty of that in his iso.

[mastina]

Fascinating
Gamma gets run up
>attempted CW on norwee
>attempted CW on ban hydras
>attempted CW on samantha!slot
i n t e r e s t i n g

Yup!

Interestingly enough, the Ban Hydras and samantha!slot one gained a lot of steam for egregiously bad reasons, so both are terrible-ass counterwagons to Gamma based on shit reasoning that gained more steam.

Compared to the attempted counterwagon on Norwegian, which was for good reasons and yet didn't gain steam.

Hmm, I wonder why the shitty-reason counterwagons to Gamma gained steam, while the reasonable-reason counterwagon to Gamma didn't?
Whyever could that be.

[mastina]

if samantha flips town, im down with gamma tomorrow - deal?

No deal.

Samantha is a slot that has every reason to be town and no reason to be scum, and which we'll presumably be getting a replacement for, a replacement that will give us more content from the slot. (And, regardless of the alignment of the slot, this is not a bad thing. samantha-replacement is town, they give us better analysis and have a chance to prove it. samantha-replacement is scum, they give us more information to poe the other scum, but that said, the slot is town so this latter scenario is just a hypothetical thought exercise.)

Gamma is a slot that has many reasons to be scum and few valid ones to be town. (Reasons involving the Gamma wagon's persistence are not valid, but I will admit that there's other defenses of Gamma not relying on the wagon on him, which may or may not be valid but which aren't definitively invalid, I confess.)

[mastina]

I'm thinking mastina is town rn, her read list looks decent even if I am at the bottom of it

You say, while literally all of the people you're voting/fingering/saying are suspicious, are players that I'm hard-townreading.

So, what exactly about my readslist is decent if it has you as scum and all of your alleged scumreads as hard-town???

[mastina]

where are you getting the idea of 5 scum?

why do you need 5 real scumreads?

Because that'll be the number of scum in this game.

It's too large for four scum but too small for six scum. schadd_'s MBOS games are heavily vanilla, utterly ruling out six scum, but while they may be heavily vanilla, I don't see a world in which the setup is balanced with only four scum; there needs to be a fifth.

Thus, I need five real scumreads.

From personal experience 4 scum is possible, but it needs to be HEAVILY vanilla

We've had three basically-masons claimed with extra power roles beyond that either claimed or hinted at.

This aint a heavily-vanilla game.

Thus, five scum.

^

[mastina]

SO THEN WHY ARE WE TOWN READING APRIL FOR SAYING "I TEND TO DO THIS THING" OR "I DON'T DO THIS THING"

Okay I found the town thing EchoVision has done this game.

(Yes, this is literally the first thing I've seen from EchoVision that makes me think he's town.)

And to answer the question: I'm not townreading April for doing that--in fact I explicitly said I wasn't townreading April for those statements.

I am townreading April for different reasons, off of a combination of meta and also generic feeling for what April's doing as feeling like it's not scum.

[mastina]

he's lurking.

Is he?

His last visit to the site was two days ago--and literally his second-to-last post onsite, on that day, was this game.

I'd say that's not a lurk from him.

If he were active elsewhere but not here? Sure, lurk. But he's not active anywhere.

[mastina]

I have never witnessed it being done by town.

I have.
In fact I've seen it done by town far more than by scum.

Would I be able to remember the games and give links, fuck no, but I know for a fact I've seen it done by town, repeatedly, and actually not by scum publicly, and that the times scum did protest they did so...in their scum PT, not publicly.

[mastina]

Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Vecna
Menalque
jjh927
samantha97

TheGoldenParadox
Pickaxe Pete

Ban Hydras
EchoVision
Bell

DiamondSentinel
April Ludgate

Christøpher

DrDolittle
(Morning Mage, NorwegianboyEE*, Tayl0r Swift*)

PlusJOYED

Gamma Emerald

Up to date readslist.

Locktown, locktown-candidates, strong-town, weak town, null (with a fair chance of being scum), remaining three scum candidates, scumread, strong scumread.

There's 7 names and legitimately a 5/7 chance of hitting scum in them--I like those odds.

Anyone from Christopher or below in the readslist, I would wagon happily, but if I had to call out a scumteam, it'd be:

{Gamma Emerald, PlusJoyed, one but NOT both of NorwegianboyEE/Tal0r Swift, depending on which maybe Morning Mage, if MM then one of Christopher/DDL if not MM then both of them}.

I believe that in Norwegianboy/Tal0r, there's one scum for sure, and I believe that Morning Mage is a viable partner with one but not the other by memory, would need to check that to confirm it.

[mastina]

hi i'm a girl now. so. she/they please

Hi young lady, you are among friends. <3

[mastina]

Also, basically everything mastina posted while I was asleep

<3

[mastina]

I’m a Novice Alien.

this is a scumclaim lol

^

[mastina]

The VCs don't show all the counters though. I may have to do work by hand if I don't get enough from the VCs.

^
schadd_ may have given vcs about once a day, but this game had 20 pages per day, so there were a lot of invisible wagons that won't display on an iso of the mod.

[mastina]

im genuinely stoked we flipped scum Day 1 in this monstrosity

You say, when...

if samantha flips town, im down with gamma tomorrow - deal?

What do you think about my point of gamma’s scumread on me not being really based on anything at all despite him presenting it as one of his more substantial reads? Do you think town!gamma really sees me shitposting about getting revenge for a game that happened well over a year ago (my second scumgame on site) and thinks that it’s a solid indicator of scum!me that I’m bragging about getting to misguillotine him now?

yes
that's exactly the kind of emotional stuff i see coming from wagoned town. It's irrational, but not because it's faked
I guess i could see the idea of scum!Gamma grasping for straws but that is not my first inclination at all
~Morning

...You had multiple posts that were trying to dissuade us from lynching Gamma.

(I feel like I should in fairness point out that there are multiple posts from your slot that finger Gamma as possible scum, but those posts look like distancing without committing to a bus.)

[mastina]

I will be bold and say almost all scum was on a counterwagon

I'll be bold and say that, while that might be true for some parts of the game, by the end of the day with the final Gamma wagon, most of the scumteam was bussing Gamma. Maybe not all four, but most--at least 2, possibly 3.

[mastina]

Why r we flipping Menalque though.

Yeah Menalque's locktown here.

[mastina]

It's based on me knowing Gamma's play (and him knowing mine). This isn't how scum!Gamma acts at all.

(Do we tell him?)

[mastina]

otoh. Mena and to a lwesser extent suberbowl, trying to rush a Gamma lynch looks p bad to me.

I'm of the opposite mindset.

Without Menalque hard-pushing for Gamma's death, we might not have ousted Gamma D1.

And the way Menalque pushed Gamma is, 100%, not the way a scumbuddy would push their scumbuddy.

Suggesting otherwise is literally the most backwards-ass moonlogicky shit ever.

Menalque is HARD-cleared by Gamma's flip.

[mastina]

lol @ sb pretending like he LEAD the Gamma lynch

lol at you trying to finger Menalque the person who legitimately DID lead the Gamma push, as scum bussing rather than town who caught Gamma.

[mastina]

why is everyone trying hard to avoid scumreading me? hmmm

Im saving you for later buddy

More or less, this.

I think you have high scum equity--but other players have much much higher chances, and there's at least the chance you're town.

[mastina]

Diamond Sentinel/PlusJOYED/Chris/you all have scummy votes on us. I love how you still want to scumread us despite the glaring evidence we're obviously not partnered with Gamma.

Nero is definitely town, and I'd say Diamond is probably town as well. Misty may or may not be town, hard to say, but I'd say the only sus name in that grouping is PlusJOYED.

That said, you're quite correct--a Gamma scumflip makes it rather incredibly likely that you are indeed town.

[mastina]

also we forgot mastina is scum

Good luck with that, buddy.

Let's see how well that goes for you.

[mastina]

Tomorrow we flip April or Taylor the day after the other one
Then probably plus?
Then we figure it out from there

I'd be willing to flip April, but preferably after the likes of Plus, Tayl0r, Norwegian, and Morning Mage.
(With a D1 scumflip, we can afford to flip all five of them. And I do think that group contains the ideal flips for tomorrow.)

[mastina]

Why can’t some just investigate me?

So the scumteam has some form of invest protection? Good to know!

Very doubtful.

[mastina]

Fuckin A mastina I’d really forgotten how much fun playing with you can be

The best part about this statement is that it applies to 100% of users about me--it's just that it's evenly split 50-50 between sincerity and sarcasm.

[mastina]

Without Menalque hard-pushing for Gamma's death, we might not have ousted Gamma D1.

Bruh? He left for a counterwagon....

So?

Town who strongly push on scum can leave the wagon--in fact that's what separates town hardpushing scum from scum committing to a hard-bus.

Menalque if scum would've never left the wagon, because leaving the wagon means Menalque loses all of the towncred from having pushed it at all.

Menalque as town would and did hard-push a scumspect, but not having the absolute knowledge that the player was scum, did pursue other avenues as well.

I do the same thing all the time.

I will, as town, vote for my scumreads, but I only have one vote and I am willing to compromise and I am willing to hop onto a different wagon, even a counterwagon, if I believe it will still lead to a scum ousted.

And Menalque was no different.

[mastina]

Mastina I think we can lead a townbloc together as long as we're don't argue too much

Sure, don't try to lynch any of my locktowns or strong townreads and we can work together to sort the rest.

I never get the exact solve, so you can probably get a better lockdown of things, so long as you're willing to accept that people like Nero and Menalque are locktown.

[mastina]

can someone block with me pls

Try the likes of Norwegianboy, Tayl0r Swift, Morning Mage, and the like.

I hear they have this cool kid club thing called 'nightkilling', and a lovely place to chat about who to use it on.

[mastina]

L word if you don't mind

Sorry, believe it or not there were literally two or three dozen instances today where I almost used that word but it slipped through once. You gotta trust me, believe me, I am trying.

[mastina]

We already know you're scum

^

VOTE: April Ludgate.

I’m an investigative role.

I've very strong reason, given what I know of the setup, to doubt this claim and believe it to be fake. (Or if not fake, a scum PR. But, very much not a town one.)

norwee is scum this game
i'll do a pbpa or whatever but it boils down to opportunistic wagon hopping and quite possibly the most awkward buddying-distancing combo to gamma i've ever seen

While I am aware that this is incorrect, I feel it worth noting: going into the night, I agreed with GoldenParadox on this mindset and saw the same things as him.

However, during the night, I actually reevaluated my read on Norwegian and came to the conclusion that Norwegian was town.

Sadly, that overnight reevaluation was ultimately rendered null and void by D2's start given the announcement confirming this to everyone.

as above, i dont know what game you're reading

The game where Mena is the N1 scum nightkill because the scum apparently agreed with me and you look like an utter fool for having thought to suggest otherwise.

On that note.

Most people were of the opinion that Morning Mage's twilight posts hard-spewed him as scum.

Thinking on it, I've actually come to the opposite conclusion. Yes, surprise! Shock! I am reevaluating my take on him and now am of the opinion that he's actually locktown.

you think Gamma-scum means BH-town? eh...how so?

Well the fact that if the scum didn't kill Menalque they killed Ban Hydras and Ban Hydras flipped town seems evidence enough of this.

(Honestly either kill could've been a scum kill. Menalque is the one I feel is more likely the scumkill because Mena was a near-universal townread who is a strong town player that's logical, reasonable, and fairly charismatic, but I do admit that, while less likely, the scum

could

have shot Ban Hydras as a player that was still seen as town, who could have those same properties. It's like 75% likely to be scum killed Menalque, something else killed Ban Hydras.)

I think probably no more than one in (April, MM)

Comparing the two twilights, no contest here: April.

Tsylor is still a high equity scumslot for the soft defence of gamma and then getting salty when called on it

This I agree with.

Super Bowl is annoying but town
Nero is town, mastina is town, Titus is town
A50 town, norwee town
Shelly probably town for the CW

These I also agree with by the way.

Plus and ddl are both straddling the line of bait and scum

Plus is another slot I have reason to believe is town, now, by the way.

Chemist is maybe town? Actually yeah, chemist town

By play, I'd agree, but by new POE, Misty might be necessarily inherently scum via the "SOMEBODY needs to be scum" principle.

Okay, the PoE for tomorrow is (MM, plus, ddl, taylor, bell, pickaxe pete)
In the (frighteningly slim) number of worlds where MM isn’t scum, april goes into the pool

Given MM and Plus town, that leaves {April, DDL, Tayl0r, Bell, Pickaxe Pete} from Menalque's list.

Do I think that those five contain the remaining four scum?

Not all four, but at least 2-3 of the four, absolutely.

I still feel Pickaxe Pete is town of a similar strength to GoldenParadox, and April's lockscum with Tayl0r a strong scum candidate, leaving 0-2 scum in {Bell, DDL}, and for Bell, I'm also applying the same ruling as I am to Misty: townreading Bell's content, but by POE, might be scum because someone needs to be. DDL by POE is also a great scum candidate.

Actually, looking at that, I think if plus!scum probably only 1 in (ddl, tsylor)

But with Plus as town, quite probable that both are scum.

I personally think Morning Mage is bleeding town.

I personally think that April specifically taking this stance locks April as scum.

So, my readslist coming into D2 is thus:

Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Morning Mage
NorwegianboyEE
PlusJOYED
Vecna
jjh927
samantha97slot
EchoVisionslot-if-April's-scum

TheGoldenParadox (almost a locktown candidate, but not quite)
Pickaxe Pete
EchoVision-if-April's-not-scum

Bell
DiamondSentinel
Christøpher/Chemist

DrDolittle

Tayl0r Swift

April Ludgate

That is to say.

April's scum here for sure (thus my vote).
Tayl0r's like 90+% scum here.

There's two scum likely in {DDL, Misty, DiamondSentinel, Bell}.
I've had townreads on the latter three, but by necessity one of these townreads must be wrong, two if DDL's town.

Starting my D2 read now.

[mastina]

something_smart replaces echovision
mathblade replaces vecna

For the sake of clarity.

That makes my readslist right now be:
Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Morning Mage
NorwegianboyEE
PlusJOYED
Vecna/Mathblade
jjh927
samantha97/shellyc
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-scum

TheGoldenParadox (almost a locktown candidate, but not quite)
Pickaxe Pete
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-not-scum

Bell
DiamondSentinel
Christøpher/Misty

DrDolittle

Tayl0r Swift

April Ludgate

Locktown strong town poe-this-area-does-have-scum leanscum scumread lockscum.

[mastina]

nice

Public cop and 2 kills. Hmm... Spooky.

You two aren't helping the case for you being poe scum by the way since both of your openings are the sort that scum would do.

how do you guys feel on the shellyc slot

They've been a conftown read of mine the majority of the game and nothing has transpired to make me think otherwise; to the contrary, everything reinforces and reaffirms that read.

[mastina]

Town	Titus Plusjoyed Diamond Sentinel Nero Cain shellyc A50 Ban Hydras mastina Menalque
Above Null	NorweiganboyEE The Golden Paradox superbowl9 Bell
Null	DrDolittle EchoVision Vecna jjh927
Lean Scum	Chemist1422 April Ludgate Morning Mage Pickaxe Pete
Scum	Tayl0r Swift

Here are the results of my VCA last night. My notes will have to wait until I get home and have computer access.

I did a writeup on most slots overnight.

Basically, from play, I'd agree on Bell and put him in a similar spot as Misty and DiamondSentinel--but from POE, these three are just not in the same degree as towniness as the others.
I probably agree with you that of them, DiamondSentinel is the most town, though, and will trust you there--so there's going to be 1-2 scum in {Bell, Misty} due to April + Tayl0r + DDL requiring one scum, two if any of April/Tayl0r/DDL are town.

Pickaxe Pete is in the same tier to me as TheGoldenParadox, because if you do an iso of the two, they are more or less similar to each other in a lot of ways. I wrote this in a PT about him:

Spoiler: What I wrote

Pickaxe Pete town indicators:
Early Morning Mage scumread;
Early good take of Nero-Vecna being town-town;
Early nuanced thought process that's difficult to fake on the Norwegian slot, with elaboration here;
The distaste at being townread (btw Echo also had this);
Good nuance to this thought process;
Early Gamma voter in a way that doesn't look like a bus;
I liked his take on Norwegian and agreed with it at the time (even if, as per above, I now think Norwegianboy's town);
Comes around to Norwegian being town in a fluid dynamic way hard to fake;
Later in Pickaxe Pete's iso, there's a bunch of asking for the Gamma defenders to justify themselves, which I also like.

Overall the slot might not have a quantity of posting but by far has one of THE highest quality posting ratios in the game. The good content:not good content ratio is through the roof in favor of good content.

(Btw as I did this for a lot of players, I can also give it on slots like Norwegian, because I did write up thoughts on them. Funnily enough, when I wrote the part on Norwegian, I went in thinking I was going to be making a scumcase on him but realized I was doing the opposite because his iso hard-spewed him as town. )

And as I mentioned, I actually feel like Morning Mage is town now, so that part I disagree with.

But by and large, our reads have huge overlap, in that we agree with every townread (minus Diamond, who due to being the towniest of my poe pile I am willing to sheep you on); we agree on all the Above Null (minus Bell, who I'd have there if not for poe requiring five names as scum); your null/lean scum/scum sections would match mine if moving Vecna, jjh, EchoVisionslot, Morning Mage, and Pickaxe Pete up.

[mastina]

I am leaning towards not multiball just the wagons don’t make sense.

For the record, to weigh in:
I am pretty sure this wouldn't be the first MBOS game to feature a scum doublekill mechanic, so it's possible scum killed

both

Menalque and Ban Hydras.

If scum did not kill both Menalque and Ban Hydras, then it'd necessarily need to be either a town role misfiring (where some effect of their role accidentally killed them), or a town vig who took a bad shot.

I do not believe the game to be multiball; I don't even think the game has a serial killer.

The two kills are either both from scum, or one from scum and the other from town. (And if the latter, again, 75-25 it being Mena as the scum kill, but with the admitted possibility of it having been Ban Hydras. We'll presumably not find out for quite some time.)

[mastina]

Titus i take it Taylor Swift is your preferred elimination today?

An acceptable alternative to April, but the elimination should 100% be one of the two and while Tayl0r's play does strongly indicate scum, my preference is April who is a walking talking scumclaim.

[mastina]

I think given the flip if you’re going off pure VCa only Mastina can’t be lock town (even though I do townread her) because of nothing gamma’s slip and not voting him.

Gamma Emerald (12):

Ban Hydras, Pickaxe Pete, Titus, superbowl9, NorwegianboyEE,

mastina

, Nero Cain, Menalque, PlusJOYED, Chemist1422, TheGoldenParadox, DiamondSentinel

I detected motion from Titus

VOTE: April Ludgate

[mastina]

guess i was wrong
inverse dolittle reads or smth

So like.

Looks an awful lot like it is indeed.

April, Tayl0r, DDL, and then one but not both of {Bell, Misty}.

Bell, Misty, whichever of you is town, you can earn boatloads of towncred by voting/bussing April.

[mastina]

actually i think it's more likely to be a fakeclaim than a legit guilty because tracker/MD in the same setup don't make a ton of sense

And which alignment do you think April did the fakeclaim as?

[mastina]

Oh god this game is multi ball and I’m town.

(It is looking like Bell is the fourth scum by the way.)

[mastina]

I need to see what Mastina thinks given Titus’s hard defense.

Titus is locktown;
April Ludgate is fakeclaiming an implied guilty result on Titus to try and swing a lynch onto her, but which there is zero backdraw to having made, because if Titus were to have a visiting role or if Titus were to have been visited, then April's fakeclaim wouldn't cause April to be strung up. A zero-risk, high-reward scum gambit of a fakeclaim, but one which is entirely fake.

[mastina]

I am in a neighborhood with mastina, Nero Cain, and Almost50. Almost50 was neighborized last night by me. He can confirm.

And so can I, tho I'd have preferred this not be shared publicly.

Ah well.

April's still scum fakeclaiming tho.

[mastina]

why did the neighborhood start out with 2 people

Three. Ask the mod post game, but we neighborize one person per night.

Hi guys, I am a mason.

I *think* I read a Nero game where he was less emotional/aggressive and more on the sidelines. He was a 1-shot scum BP in that one. Someone in that game pointed out he played pretty distinctly different as scum. Makes me inclined to think he's on his town meta right now

Can confirm; I know Nero's scum meta and this isn't it.

Feeling strongly that (norwee, A50, nero) is a strong starting point for the solve

This is Nero's town meta, so no on that.

Titus
Nero Cain

Vecna
samantha97

Locktown

Without ISOing, why do you townread Titus

She's my masonbuddy, obv.

@mastina, how sure are you in your d1 locktown reads? without playing with you/knowing your meta well, i have no idea what you mean by locktown here

With the exception of superbowl9, the locktown reads are 100% locktown, zero chance of ever being scum, ever. They are locked town because they are just not scum.

This is, admittedly, largely from meta (and thus also why I say 'with the exception of superbowl9' above, who I've zero meta of). I know the ins and outs of Nero's towngame and scumgame and this is 100% his towngame and literally any player who has seen Nero as town and scum would be able to tell the same, he's literally one of the easiest players onsite to read. I am fairly extensively familiar with Vecna's towngame. I am, admittedly, less familiar with his scumgame, I have to confess, but this is also 100% a perfect match to what I know Vecna's towngame to be, so he's town, too.

VOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Gamma
Sheeping my masonbuddy.

Hey mastina, I was gonna vote Titus
Can you confirm once more your strong disagreement with this course of action

Absolutely.
If you voted Titus I wouldn't instavote you because you're enough of a troll to vote locktown reads of mine even as town.

But if there were a gladiate between you and Titus, I would lynch you 200% of the time here. I wouldn't be happy doing it because I believe you're town--but in a contest between the townitude of you and Titus, Titus wins by a landslide. She's never getting lynched as long as I live.

Okay my role is like, the worst imaginable that could be assigned to jjh927

Funny, my role is, like, the best imaginable that could be assigned to mastina.

Bullet-Proof Godfather??

Nah, I'm not a good enough scum player to have any scum role be the best role.

A small sample of the proof, if anyone needed it.

[mastina]

We're actually mod confirmed to each other. See mastina's readwall having me as town before I posted.

Yup.

I've been about as subtle about my role as a brick to the head.

It's pretty glaringly obvious once you look at it.

[mastina]

instantly scumread A50 for a mason claim when you supposedly are

We did. See Nero pushing Superbowl9. My questions at EoD1.

For the record, it was me who fought hard on Almost50 and superbowl9 being town, because they did something I thought couldn't be faked and confirmed they were telling the truth. (I've already shown what it was to Almost50, but not sure I should quote it in here.)

Also, since it's been outed that we have a topic:
Norwegian, this is where overnight I hashed out my townread on your slot. Titus had you as town, I had you as scum. Titus compiled a list of reads we disagreed on, you included. I went through to present my case on all of the disagreements, and why I felt they were the alignment I felt they were--it was during that process that I iso'd you and realized "wtf was I smoking, Norwegian's just town through and through". (This is also where I typed up the Pickaxe Pete reasons for being town, obv.)

[mastina]

This feels like scum who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
VOTE: April

Oh it absolutely is.

One of these days people will learn that I've never said I'm a mason when I don't have a role that has some sort of functionality similar to one.

(No really, people think that I say "Hi guys I am a mason" every game, and I exploit that to say it every time I have anything resembling a mason power, but like. I actually don't say it when I don't have that sort of power. And this game I was incredibly unsubtle in saying I KNEW Titus and Nero were aligned with me.)

[mastina]

Nero Cain, mastina and I are modconfirmed. Superbowl9 is confirmed to A50.

^This.
Nero, Titus, and I are a unit.
superbowl9 and Almost50 and one other are apparently a unit, one which I fully believe.
I advocated for neighborizing Almost50, as to let us link these two separate three-man units.

[mastina]

masontina? again?

One of these days scum will learn to actually nightkill me when my opening post is declaring I'm a mason, and not assume it's a meme that I'm joking about.

Their loss!

[mastina]

I just don’t see how 6 masons and a tracker and a motion detector and plus’s role and public day cop ever gets approved. This just doesn’t seem correct. There has to be scum somewhere.

That's because April's a scumfuck who's lying through his ass.

[mastina]

This is a glaring inconsistency.

There is no inconsistency.
Nero, Titus, and I are confirmed to each other.
Almost50, superbowl9, and their third, are confirmed to each other, apparently.

The setup is not designed so that Nero/Titus/I turn on each other or Almost50/superbowl9/theirthird turn on each other; the setup is designed so that the Nero/Titus/mastina group and the Almost50/superbowl9/thethird group turn on each other--

And I was the biggest proponent of going "NOPE" to that and insisting we don't, on insisting we DO work together and not turn on each other because I AM convinced all 6 are not scum.
Nero and Titus were, notably, both publicly and extensively in private, skeptical of Almost50/superbowl9's group, as the setup probably intended.

It's my stubborn ass that insisted on them being town.

[mastina]

(Also, I do have over 25 pages to catch up on, but I need to take a food break to have dinner.)

[mastina]

Sorry but I didn't want to look like I was stalling. I am not subtle. I bet Nero and mastina are upset too but it is what is it.

Well, D2 is better than D1 I suppose.

[mastina]

Can someone go back and check if Titus was so sure of the miller-masons being town yesterday? It seems she's very fixated on that today, but I'm not sure whether that lines up with her earlier view?

Titus was very much not so sure of the miller-masons being town yesterday, but I most definitively was, and you can see my progression on it to tell rather easily.

I, both inthread and out of thread in our PT, was a strong advocate for believing Almost50 and superbowl9 were town.
Titus and Nero, both inthread and out of thread in our PT, had their doubts. Maybe still have them, would have to ask them.
But I asked them to trust me, to have faith, that yes the other group are town and that we can work with them.

[mastina]

I think Plus and I roles go well together, because I can somewhat confirm if their action was successful or not

What I think is that this is April having scum knowledge about Plus's role and trying to fakeclaim a role that he thought would fit into the setup.
(Incidentally, one of the reasons I voted Gamma yesterday is that I thought he had too much setup info, too. Same thing for April today.)

[mastina]

So we have recruit neighbors and miller neighbors is what i’m gathering here. And they all seem to believe/claim they are town or alligned with town.

Basically, yeah!

[mastina]

oh this implies that there are two PTs then?

Correct, and my belief in Almost50/superbowl9/thethird being town is in part because they claimed something I feel they could not have known how to possibly fake, something mirroring my/Nero/Titus's own PT. They knew things about the format/structure of a PT that I don't think scum would know, that only someone whose roles were similar to our own would know.

[mastina]

does anyone else feel like an ascetic claim is really out of place here?

I don't.
PlusJOYED's role makes ascetic make perfect sense as a town role, here.

[mastina]

I don't like jjh's claim either, but I don't want to lynch him. I feel this setup was "balanced" by what the mods expected us to do and jjh is a bait lynch. If he turns out to be the lynch today so be it. Setup spec isn't the greatest reason in the world.

(For the record this is another thing Titus and I fought with in the PT. )

[mastina]

does anyone else feel like an ascetic claim is really out of place here?

Nah, it goes well with Loyal/Disloyal and Motion orientated roles like MD/Tracker.

By the way April is in for a nasty surprise.

Almost50 knows what I'm referring to here, but I don't think it's something that should be made public yet.

[mastina]

I really want to see what Mastina thinks. Mastina while great at scum isn’t the best liar.

Okay, this is me not lying:
I have VERY good setup based reasons to believe that April Ludgate's roleclaim is complete and utter bullshit.

[mastina]

I really want to see what Mastina thinks. Mastina while great at scum isn’t the best liar.

Okay, this is me not lying:

I have VERY good setup based reasons to believe that April Ludgate's roleclaim is complete and utter bullshit.

Feel like this was important enough to emphasize so that people who skim/skip my catchup posts find it harder to ignore, because yes; this IS important.

April Ludgate is basically guiltied scum, so we have a free D2 scum lynch to pair with our D1 scum lynch.

[mastina]

Take a look at here Mastina is a useless vote on bell after calling out gamma’s scum slip.

You got a chronology problem there, mate.

By the time I called Gamma out on Gamma's TMI slip, I was already voting Gamma.
I even said in the post that I pointed out the TMI slip that I was already voting Gamma at the time--the increased size was just for emphasis.

And good luck trying to convince Titus that I'm scum when Titus Nero and I are literally confirmed to each other--not faking confirmed, not pretending to be confirmed when we're actually neighbors, actually legitimately CONFIRMED to each other, no joke, no exaggeration, no lie, just the honest truth; we know the alignments and roles of each other. (Heck, these were in the first post of our PT, where they literally listed our roles. Full roles, start to finish, every aspect of them.)

[mastina]

Plus Loyal targets Player Y
I motion detector Player 1.
If Player Y is scum, Plus’s role won’t go through, and I can possibly get a “no motion detected”
However, scum can counter this because they can have that player make the kill, if anything, but it forces that player into an action, which is at minimum, beneficial.

To follow up, this works if Plus is disloyal too.

Plus Disloyal targets Y.
April Targets Y.

Plus role won't go through on town. Thus April detects no action unless scum also target the slot.
Plus role goes through on scum, forcing that scum to claim an action other than an NK.

The problem with this is that it relies on April being town and not lying through his ass about his results, when in fact he is scum and he has pulled this

exact

claim out as scum before. EXACTLY this strat, where he or a scumbuddy at his behest (forget which) claimed motion detector (falsely so) to try and synergize with a town loyal/disloyal role (forget which).

Don't remember which game he pulled this in, but he 100% has done it before and would and did do it again.

[mastina]

Wait, titus, does your masonry have a name too?

As a matter of fact, yes.
This was one of the reasons that convinced me Almost50 and superbowl9 were town (well, not scum fakeclaiming, more specifically, but for the sake of simplicity, I say 'town' rather than 'not-scum' since while the two are technically not identical, for all intents and purposes they basically are one and the same), the inability to fake the detail involve which from my own role I knew was true.

[mastina]

OK, so Tutus/Nero/mastina are confirmed

3P

AND are confirmed the same faction/alignment to

each other

. I have had a long discussion with Titus and her claims appear to legit in that they are not "scum" and

can win with town

. They have an additional wincon that I think is harder to achieve (I'd go as far as stating it's almost impossible) and in that particular case only they win (i.e. Gamma's Army still loses along with Town if that happens).

Let me reiterate for those of you who like to see me say the same thing repeatedly:

1- Titus/mastina/Nero are NON-TOWN
2- Titus/mastina/Nero are NOT ALIGNED WITH GAMMA
3- Titus/mastina/Nero CAN win with the Town (and are inclined to do so)
4- Titus/mastina/Nero can also win exclusively, but it's NIGH IMPOSSIBLE for them to do so

Since you outed this, I suppose I can clarify.
Part of our 3p information is

we explicitly know that the Army is the one and

only

scum faction in this game, numbering exactly five

.
That means this game is NOT multiball.
It is, explicitly, singleball aside from a 3p twist or two.

Gamma was not 3p--he was scum. His faction, and only his faction, is the scumteam this game. There's five of them, including Gamma, thus, four left. (And yes, we are indeed inclined to vote off scum because we have incentive to do so--and I've been playing as if I were a town mason this whole game because I basically am one, because I don't need to eliminate town to win and do need to eliminate scum, soooo. Basically town, albeit not literally town. We are indeed, as Mathblade would describe, essentially "Town+".)

There is more setup information we have, and we shared it with Almost50, but it's not something that I'll blurt out on a whim. (In general, I'm taking the stance that I won't out any information on my own in the public thread, but if someone else in the trusted circle outs the information, then I will happily expand upon it and confirm it with extra details not included before.)

[mastina]

this works similar to a 2016 game called Gitsou where we had FOUR different TOWN factions, and they all won together or lost together. It was much more complicated than this one with an additional 3P faction that also won with Town (unless Town picked wrong and then they'd have been enemies AFTER all Scum were eliminated). The five factions wer up against 2 scum factions AND a Cultist. It was CRAZY (and one of the most enjoyable games EVER)

(For the record while the game had flaws in multiple stages. Delivery of votecounts, information, design, overly heavy reliance on flavor, high levels of confusion and specialized game mechanics to the point where Cephrir insists that the game was fun but not a mafia game and in hindsight while I may not fully agree with that outlook I certainly can't disagree with it either. And more. I do legitimately think that, in spite of its flaws, it is probably one of my finest moments onsite in terms of moderating a memorable and unique, one of a kind, experience. I legit wish I could have the mindstate to mod a game so much as half as promising as it was. My largest regret on mafiascum is that I've lost the mental edge to moderate; I'm physically incapable of doing it anymore.
My second-largest regret is that, in spite of having started it, I never finished turning the mafia game into a Novelized version of it, which would take many cues from the game including the genders/fates of some characters, but would of course take some artistic liberties to tell the narration that would've existed without the mafia game being involved. It would've genuinely been the best book I could ever write, but I just...couldn't do it. But I digress.)

[mastina]

You guys are 3rd party claiming, we can go after you all we want. That’s on you guys to get us to trust you.

Sure.
All three of us were on the Gamma wagon when Gamma was groupscum.
We three together pushed heavily for the lynch of groupscum (including me pushing Gamma on a TMI scumslip of asking to be neighborized).
We've shared fairly openly the information we know--a lot of it here, publicly, and literally anything not public, Almost50 knows, and can share to his group.

I'd say that's a pretty damn good place to start in terms of earning trust.

[mastina]

I really want to see what Mastina thinks. Mastina while great at scum isn’t the best liar.

Okay, this is me not lying:

I have VERY good setup based reasons to believe that April Ludgate's roleclaim is complete and utter bullshit.

Feel like this was important enough to emphasize so that people who skim/skip my catchup posts find it harder to ignore, because yes; this IS important.

April Ludgate is basically guiltied scum, so we have a free D2 scum lynch to pair with our D1 scum lynch.

OK, so Tutus/Nero/mastina are confirmed

3P

AND are confirmed the same faction/alignment to

each other

. I have had a long discussion with Titus and her claims appear to legit in that they are not "scum" and

can win with town

. They have an additional wincon that I think is harder to achieve (I'd go as far as stating it's almost impossible) and in that particular case only they win (i.e. Gamma's Army still loses along with Town if that happens).

Let me reiterate for those of you who like to see me say the same thing repeatedly:

1- Titus/mastina/Nero are NON-TOWN
2- Titus/mastina/Nero are NOT ALIGNED WITH GAMMA
3- Titus/mastina/Nero CAN win with the Town (and are inclined to do so)
4- Titus/mastina/Nero can also win exclusively, but it's NIGH IMPOSSIBLE for them to do so

Since you outed this, I suppose I can clarify.
Part of our 3p information is

we explicitly know that the Army is the one and

only

scum faction in this game, numbering exactly five

.
That means this game is NOT multiball.
It is, explicitly, singleball aside from a 3p twist or two.

Gamma was not 3p--he was scum. His faction, and only his faction, is the scumteam this game. There's five of them, including Gamma, thus, four left. (And yes, we are indeed inclined to vote off scum because we have incentive to do so--and I've been playing as if I were a town mason this whole game because I basically am one, because I don't need to eliminate town to win and do need to eliminate scum, soooo. Basically town, albeit not literally town. We are indeed, as Mathblade would describe, essentially "Town+".)

There is more setup information we have, and we shared it with Almost50, but it's not something that I'll blurt out on a whim. (In general, I'm taking the stance that I won't out any information on my own in the public thread, but if someone else in the trusted circle outs the information, then I will happily expand upon it and confirm it with extra details not included before.)

New page, so quoting these because they're important enough to not be missed.

[mastina]

On another note can we elim DDL

April first would be my preference, but past that? Sure thing!

If you’re 3P aligned with town building the town should be your goal.

Iso me, Mathblade, and there you'll see the townbuilding.

I've been trying to accurately form a solid townbloc the entire game, even noting that while my scumhunting has largely been lackluster, my townhunting was feeling more on-point. And by and large, I stand by that assessment.

While there's outliers like Gamma and April who obvscum themselves beyond all contention, literally none of my other scumreads would surprise me to be wrong--I happen to

believe

that I have a good starting point, but I probably

don't

have the exact solve.

But I do feel like my locktown all have actually good reasons for being locktown.

The players below locktown, I will admit, less reason to be town but I still feel they're town enough.

I realize that was a while ago, so in addition to 3851, lemme post a reminder:
Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Morning Mage
NorwegianboyEE
PlusJOYED
Vecna/Mathblade
jjh927
samantha97/shellyc
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-scum

TheGoldenParadox (almost a locktown candidate, but not quite)
Pickaxe Pete
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-not-scum

DiamondSentinel
Christøpher/Misty
Bell

DrDolittle

Tayl0r Swift

April Ludgate

Titus and Nero share my alignment.
Almost50, superbowl9, and their third share an alignment and I believe their claim.
Morning Mage I reevaluated as being town.
Norwegianboy is, via knowing that the Army is the only scum faction, cleared of being scum.
PlusJOYED's role is town.
samantha was town at every stage and shellyc continues this trend.
Vecna was looking town to me and Mathblade looks just as town.
jjh's ascetic claim doesn't fit as a scum role or a scum fakeclaim; it feels real and like a town role.
EchoVision is 100% not an April scumbuddy; iso EchoVision to confirm this--given that April is lockscum, that means Something_Smart is also town.

TheGoldenParadox and Pickaxe Pete, even if they have made conclusions I later disagreed with, I've followed their logic this game and basically at-the-time-they-posted agreed with them, with them being reasonable, rational, making sense, with a thought train process I could clearly follow flawlessly--not enough to locktown them, but where they are close to.

DiamondSentinel is the towniest of the POE names but while I trust Titus that he's town, I could still see him as possible scum.

Misty is the second-towniest of the POE names but while I see some of her content as town, she could very easily be scum.

Bell makes sense as scum from his D2 contributions and even lacking that is the scummiest of the POE names, bar DDL, so is probably scum.

DDL has been a leanscum the entire game and POE suggests he is scum.

Tayl0r Swift is a player whose content by and large looks town, but her interactions very very strongly suggest scum, due to the players she is defending and what she's done.

And April is basically confscum at this point; the only way to more strongly confirm him would be to literally flip him because he's that damn confscum.

[mastina]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

For the record.
We were informed of this role in the game.
I can't speak for Titus/Nero, but me, personally, I thought it best not to out this role or any part of it, in spite of knowing it existed.
But with the claim out here in full.
Might as well confirm that we know it's a real role and is town-aligned.

This is why PlusJOYED moved from a suspect of mine to locktown; it's because Titus and Nero pointed out PlusJoyed's claim in our PT (which I read before starting my catchup here), and I knew that role was town.
Knowing that role was town and targeted samantha's slot (shellyc) also reaffirmed the locktown read that was already there.
Knowing that role was in the game also is why I think that jjh is town--if jjh were a scum ascetic, then to the disloyal alignment cop inventor, he would literally be a scum Godfather if he didn't claim the ascetic.
Thus, from a setup spec point of view, jjh is pretty much locktown to me; PlusJOYED is conftown; shellyc is likely a legit innocent.

[mastina]

april claimed investigative in twilight huh

Yep. So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

By the way guys.

Now that PlusJOYED's role is public.

Guess what

this

looks like from April?

That's right.

A TMI scumslip of knowing there's a cop in the game.

[mastina]

What is your full wincon?

Respectfully, this is something that is only pro-scum to share.

If Almost50's group feels differently, if any of them feel it is pro-town to have it known publicly, then they have the ability to out it as we did disclose our full wincon to Almost50, but in my opinion it doesn't help the town to know publicly and does help the scum.

[mastina]

talk to me about taylor why is that slot scum

why do you need 5 real scumreads?

Because that'll be the number of scum in this game.
It's too large for four scum but too small for six scum. schadd_'s MBOS games are heavily vanilla, utterly ruling out six scum, but while they may be heavily vanilla, I don't see a world in which the setup is balanced with only four scum; there needs to be a fifth.
Thus, I need five real scumreads.

Possible scum TMI in knowing there's five scum and wondering how I knew there were five scum.

why is no one concerned that no real counterwagon has formed to gamma?

Because there's been no less than three?

There have been counterwagons, real ones, so nobody's concerned about a lack of a counterwagon because there isn't a lack of a counterwagon.

if the best ally gamma has is me saying "theres something questionable there but i dunno about a 10-person wagon" then where are the scumbuddies and why arent they doing anything to help?

Well, what can the scumbuddies do to help? This game has a bunch of people who're painfully obviously town. They butt heads a bunch, and misread each other a fair amount, but push come to shove most of them aren't getting lynched.

So if the obvious town aren't getting lynched.

What can scum try to do?

They can try to lynch the players who aren't obviously town, but that list is fairly thin, considering most of the scum are going to be within that list.

also why does the gamma wagon, as weak as it seems to be, have such longevity?

Why wouldn't it? There's a bunch of noise in the game, a lot and a lot of noise, and people going back and forth on their stances. The Gamma wagon has risen and shrunk as people have hopped off to pursue their vanity scumreads and as people have hopped back on trying to reform the cohesion/unity.

Plus, a wagon persisting does not make the wagon be on town. (Battle Mage can attest to that as the last time he and I played together, he was the leading wagon for 3/4ths of D1 before he replaced out, and for some time after that, too. Titus can also attest to this as she defended Battle Mage that game using your same logic--but she was wrong to have done so because surprise surprise, the neverending wagon on Battle Mage

was

on scum.)

Also, when the town is more or less mostly in the correct area, even if they don't fully agree--it makes a lot of sense for them to be united in the wagon.

And a critical question about the Gamma wagon the Gamma Emerald defenders can't answer--

who are the alleged scum pushing the Gamma wagon?

If you can't provide them, then the wagon is, inherently, not driven by scum. And if the wagon is, inherently, not driven by scum, then it's not a town-indicator for the wagonee to have the wagon have such longevity.

Tayl0r hard-defended Gamma off of flawed logic that I displayed the flaws of here.

Surprisingly, gamma is totally fine with it

Funny that

Almost as if Gamma has a good reason to not sus Tayl0r.

Context: Menalque was pointing out how Tayl0r fakeclaimed mason, and how Gamma should be all on top of that, hounding Tayl0r and saying Tayl0r was suspicious for it--except Gamma did the opposite, being very chill with it, not batting an eye at the fakeclaim.

This is a strong scumbuddies indicator; Gamma wasn't suspicious of Tayl0r when Gamma

should

have been.

Take a look at Tayl0r's stances the whole game:
A Menalque vote when Menalque was the most obvtown player in the game; reemphasized here; defense of Gamma; Pushing Menalque who was a Gamma counterwagon; noncommittal stance on Gamma which contradicts with the Gamma defense, a scumbuddy indicator; continues the Gamma defense; continues to attack the Gamma voters; takes this awkward stance on Gamma in spite of Gamma's scumclaim of a vote; tries to start a counterwagon to Gamma on Norwegian, who is now conftown; in spite of having defended Gamma, the read doesn't support the defense because if Gamma was null, why so strong a defense?.

As I said.
Individually, Tayl0r's content looks town.
But when it comes to interactions, Tayl0r's interactions SCREAM Gamma scumbuddy.
Literally the only person with stronger Gamma scumbuddy interactions is April Ludgate.

[mastina]

talk to me about taylor why is that slot scum

why is morning town

Because I looked at their posts with a new perspective and suddenly they all made perfect sense as coming from town when I had that shift. (Blame PT stuff for why.)

[mastina]

In that case this might be the better elimination.
Scum!April absolutely does make ballsy plays like that.
VOTE: April

Yup, and it's what he did here.

April's displayed TMI in the same way Gamma did, faked a no-risk high-reward investigation on Titus, claims a role I have setup reasons to believe isn't in the game while thinking it is a role that would fit in the game, and uses a strategy which I am pretty sure he used before, of trying to claim a motion detector role in a game with a town (dis)loyal role.

That, plus he defended Gamma D1, and given that scum had little agency D1 and

April was among the lurkers D1

, not to mention how April has tried to throw shade on almost all of the alignment-confirmed players trying to make them not be as town as they are.

April's not scum for any one reason; April is scum for every reason because this is how April plays when scum are eliminated on D1 when he is on the scumteam and knows that if he doesn't step up his game, they're fucked.

[mastina]

PlusJOYED
EchoVision
DrDolittle
Gamma Emerald

nullscum

VOTE: Gamma
Gamma has been on MS for 4.5 hours now. He made 47 public posts (the last if which was maybe 2 minutes ago) but is yet to even make an ego post in this game.

I do seem to recall the last time Gamma did that, he was scum, so consider me in support of this. (I like my Bell vote more, but in spirit I am with you here and will happily switch.)

I wanna vote you for this.
But I feel so bad about misreading you and making an ass out of myself that I want to vote with you instead. :3

(Inb4 Bell-Gamma as part of the scumteam. )

At this time, I thought Gamma might've been scum but he wasn't a strong scumread.

made me want to lynch him so....IT DID!

^

VOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Gamma
Sheeping my masonbuddy.

When I finished reading Gamma's catchup (the "it" mentioned above was Gamma's catchup, and the "him" mentioned in Nero's post was Gamma), I voted Gamma because he went from nullscum to scum.

From that point on, Gamma was always a top scumread of mine. As shown here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, all before I pointed out the TMI scumflip from Gamma:

Tbh I really need a place where I can ramble away from the thread so if anyone's a neighborizer please target me

VOTE: Gamma

I was already voting Gamma but I have good reason to believe that this is a TMI slip from Gamma.

As noted in that post,

my vote never left Gamma

.
I was on Gamma the whole time, for literally over 1000 posts.

[mastina]

Herpderp. That was meant to be.

@mastina
Pretty sure I don’t have a chronology problem?
I hadn’t even read to the point you’re claiming. The fact this did not come with a Gamma vote is suspicious AF to me.

I didn't vote Gamma there, sure. But check my iso again.

PlusJOYED
EchoVision
DrDolittle
Gamma Emerald

nullscum

VOTE: Gamma
Gamma has been on MS for 4.5 hours now. He made 47 public posts (the last if which was maybe 2 minutes ago) but is yet to even make an ego post in this game.

I do seem to recall the last time Gamma did that, he was scum, so consider me in support of this. (I like my Bell vote more, but in spirit I am with you here and will happily switch.)

I wanna vote you for this.
But I feel so bad about misreading you and making an ass out of myself that I want to vote with you instead. :3

(Inb4 Bell-Gamma as part of the scumteam. )

At this time, I thought Gamma might've been scum but he wasn't a strong scumread.

made me want to lynch him so....IT DID!

^

VOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Gamma
Sheeping my masonbuddy.

When I finished reading Gamma's catchup (the "it" mentioned above was Gamma's catchup, and the "him" mentioned in Nero's post was Gamma), I voted Gamma because he went from nullscum to scum.

From that point on, Gamma was always a top scumread of mine. As shown here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, all before I pointed out the TMI scumflip from Gamma:

Tbh I really need a place where I can ramble away from the thread so if anyone's a neighborizer please target me

VOTE: Gamma

I was already voting Gamma but I have good reason to believe that this is a TMI slip from Gamma.

As noted in that post,

my vote never left Gamma

.
I was on Gamma the whole time, for literally over 1000 posts.

[mastina]

If you have had setup information all along there was 5 scum why let me fucking stew?

Because I didn't feel like that was information that I could justify a fully town, not 3p, claim as having, and at the time, I wasn't sure we were outed as 3p--once we

were

outed as 3p, I saw no reason to hold back on that information because there was no need to pretend to be fully fully town, basically.

To put it another way.
We're a 3p that's town-friendly, but not technically town.
I am playing as if I were town.
But I have access to information that no town player would conceivably have access to.
If we were masquerading as town, I couldn't divulge that information because town wouldn't have access to it.
But as we are a 3p and not masquerading as town, I can freely divulge it, so did.

Basically it felt like something that the only reason to divulge it, would be after having been outed as 3p. So the moment I confirmed we were outed as 3p, I divulged it.

My stance on this is pretty consistent on all fronts, really.
I will expand and divulge extra on information others have already shared; I won't divulge things just for the sake of outing them if I see no reason to and perhaps reason not to.

It wasn't something I could divulge on D1 without outing being 3p, but I did at least hint at it, by being explicit since D1 that there were exactly five scum, and always saying and reinforcing, five scum. So while I didn't divulge it until I felt I could, I freely hinted at it.

[mastina]

Explain your April case.

April is scum because this is April's scum meta through and through, at least one specific version of it.
I've seen this version of FL at least once or twice, the version where he loses a scumbuddy D1 after having lurked through D1 and tries to make a whacky crazy D2 comeback.

Beyond that: FL has shown setup knowledge on multiple fronts indicating TMI that he is scum.
Beyond that: FL claimed a role that I have role-related reasons to believe doesn't exist in the setup.
Beyond that: FL is trying to set up a role chain that I know he is capable of setting up as scum, having done it before.
Beyond that: FL hard-defended Gamma D1 when FL has a scum meta of hard-defending his scumbuddies.
Beyond that: FL has tried to shade and discredit just about every alignment-confirmed player, because if too many players are locktowned, scum are put into an auto-loss and April is trying everything in his power to prevent that.

Trust me.

I don't always know April's scumgame.

But I KNOW that this? This is April's scumgame.

He's not scum by one reason.

He's scum by every reason.

[mastina]

What? Why would that be information you're given? Now i'm starting to wonder if i agree with Math that it's almost too good to be true.

Heck if I know, maybe schadd thought we'd be more antitown than we actually are in practice? Like, we have very heavy shades of the 3p faction in the last MBOS game, we're just more town-friendly (much much more town friendly), and the 3p faction in the last MBOS game had knowledge like that, so it might be an artifact of that? Like, maybe we were initially designed as a more antitown faction than what we are, and were given that knowledge to balance it, but were later made more protown, more town friendly, and the information was left in as a relic?

You'll have to ask schadd_ about it postgame, this is just my theorycrafting.

We got a lot of knowledge that helps the town in some form or another, I legit have no clue why we were given what we were.

[mastina]

Just fucking claim all the setup information you have right fucking now. There’s no reason to keep shit hidden.

To some extent there actually is tho.

I've revealed a lot publicly, and

everything

in the PT.

There's six players who can decide if the stuff in the latter not in the former should be moved from the latter into the former.

[mastina]

EXACTLY this strat, where he or a scumbuddy at his behest (forget which) claimed motion detector (falsely so) to try and synergize with a town loyal/disloyal role (forget which).
Don't remember which game he pulled this in, but he 100% has done it before and would and did do it again.

Which game?

It'd be a Normal that I was a reviewer of, but fucked if I know which one.

[mastina]

I feel like if we were in the same PT we’d get along so well mastina

It can be arranged!

[mastina]

One question to the 3P gang. If your second wincon is "close to impossible" as you put it. Why not just tell us what it is?

Because it reveals information that's pro-scum and not pro-town--which would make instant sense if we did reveal it and you'd go, "oh, yeah, that IS proscum to have revealed", but like. Can't reveal what the proscum info to reveal is, without revealing it, so. For now, gotta take our word for it.

[mastina]

Mastina if your hood is informed and the info is useful and you’re protown why don’t you just out it considering you win with us

I have been, but not all info is protown to reveal publicly. There IS information that is proscum to reveal, even if it would have some protown utility.

Basically, when it comes to revealing information:
If scum get more from revealing the information than town, don't reveal it; (all the information that we have left fits this, pretty sure)
If town get more from revealing the information than scum, DO reveal it (all the information we've divulged was this, pretty sure).

Do you disagree?

It should be noted: some information if revealed would also reveal other information, such as us knowing the number of groupscum in this game being a dead giveaway that we're a 3p. (Thus, why I shared the former only after the revelation of the latter.)

[mastina]

Mastina i would still like to hear a MM towncase as well

Will have to wait--it's literally 7:15 am here and I've been playing this game since about 1:15, I've been in this game for 6 hours, the sun is beginning to rise and I've not slept for the night.

My plan is to catch up and then go to bed.

[mastina]

(Looks like I'm caught up, so bedtime now.)

[mastina]

oh and mastina MUST explain april flipping green ASAP

Sure.
I suppose that Titus/Nero/the 3masons might get mad at me for outting this info now, but my reasons for believing April were threefold.
1: After asking schadd_, schadd_ told us that our Neighborize action

does not show up to action investigation roles

--including, he specified, being invisible to Motion Detectors. Therefore,

April could not have detected Titus 'visiting', because to an action investigation role, she wouldn't have counted as visiting

.
Meaning either April was faking a guilty (what I believed), or an unspecified role visited Titus--given no town roles stepped up to say they had targeted Titus N1, I felt it unlikely. (Tho now occam's razor says it was a scum role targeting her N1.)

2: We were the ones who made Menalque a tracker. It was one of our powers. (Admittedly, there was a bit of a misunderstanding on our trackerize power, but not sure if this should be claimed publicly, but basically, all three of us misunderstood the role in a way which I felt made April's claim far more likely to be bogus.)

3: We received who PlusJOYED's target was at the end of every night PlusJOYED would target someone, so going into D2 we knew the Disloyal Alignment Cop Inventor had targeted shellyc. This meant that April's role was redundant to our own passive factional power. He theorized his role was meant to confirm PlusJOYED's target...but our passive factional power

already did that

, without a need for his role.

Admittedly, the five others all thought this was weaker evidence than I did, and I was the one who most strongly pushed that this trifecta of reasons condemned April, so I take 100% of the blame for being wrong in this. It was my fuckup and I am sorry, but I think you can agree that if you had all three pieces of this evidence, you'd at least see

why

I felt April was scum as strongly as I did.

[mastina]

*my reasons for believing April was scum were threefold, just to be clear.

[mastina]

MASTINA!

I felt prioritizing the PT chat was more important than here, there's three topics I need to stay on top of (ours, the neighborhood, and this public one), and I'll be rehashing the pt content in here shortly.

VOTE: Norwegian, this part goes without saying.
HURT: Doctor Dolittle.
This one I explained privately but will be rehashing once caught up so I can explain my reasons for all instead of just to the neighborhood.

[mastina]

How much you wanna bet it's DDL?

A lot.

jjh is, mechanically, incredibly likely to be town here, to the point of being almost conftown levels of town.

Given he is one of the three names in a list of guaranteed to have one scum minimum, with the possibility of two scum.

That means we have a MINIMUM 50% scum in DDL/PP.
Which means the execute today should be one of the two.

If the execute on one of the two flips town, then with jjh as mechanically town, BAM! On D4 we have a free guaranteed scum flip to eliminate.
If the execute on one of the two flips scum, then with jjh as mechanically town, we discuss the alignment of the other to determine if we think the list had two scum or if it had just one and we hit it today.

Basically, any execution other than those two leads to us not having a guaranteed second scumflip by the end of D4, whereas an execution in those two guarantees a second scumflip by the end of D4. Dead scum > not dead scum, obviously.

[mastina]

Why didn't you just discuss it with them before posting it here?

Well given April's dead and flipped town, Menalque's dead and flipped town, and PlusJOYED is dead and flipped town, in my personal opinion, there was little benefit in hoping to catch scum out by holding out on that info, but there was benefit in explaining where I was coming from yesterday publicly.

Holding back on the info in an April!scum world made sense--but with April not actually as scum, I...really don't see how holding back could help us. At least in my opinion. So I felt like sharing it immediately was okay.

[mastina]

It doesn't really matter how many reasons you have, you pretty much set up munched him instead of trying to read him.

Oh I tried to read him, I just read him as scum. The mechanical reasons were cherries on top given that I thought his play on D2 after a D1 scum lynch was him trying to do damage control, and, yes, April hard-defending a scumbuddy on D1 and then suddenly being more aggressive on D2

is

his scum meta.

I had every reason to think he was scum, not just mechanics.

I was wrong, he wasn't lying about his role (jury's still out on the result but we'll probably not know until postgame if scum targeted Titus N1 or he lied about the visit), the people defending his play as not being scum and saying I was tunneling were right, the people who thought the mechanical indicators of him being scum weren't as definitive as I believed were right, I was wrong in thinking they were as damning as they were, so the people defending April were right and I made a mistake on every level.

[mastina]

why is JJH town

Do you think that, with a scum 1x alien and a town Odd-night Disloyal Alignment Cop Inventor, that schadd_ in addition to the 1x alien gives scum an ascetic to further limit the number of possible guilties?

Remember, the role is odd-night, meaning can only be used half of the nights.
And scum can use an alien one of the nights.
And it takes another night for the alignment cop, if in the hands of one of the six protown nontowns, to get a result from it, and it takes scum not realizing what PlusJOYED's role is if they get it to be guiltied.

In short--the role, with just the 1x alien and the nature of the disloyal odd-night alignment cop inventor, is already hard enough to get a guilty.

And then on top of that, you think schadd_ gives the scum what amounts to a scum godfather?

It's incredibly unlikely especially given series themes of uncertain guilties but certain innocents, and a full ungated ascetic essentially being a scum godfather in this specific game.

[mastina]

Claim Miller Mason, Daycop, scum. - I sleep

Oh in that case I am a mason tracker-inventor N2 doctor.

(Btw I didn't quote this post before, but now that us being responsible for N2 is public and us trackerizing Menalque is public, can I just point out how much of a cheeky fuck I was in this post? It was me refuging in audacity, but

I wasn't lying

; I had all of the powers I claimed in that post. )

[mastina]

What if the Titus-faction is a cult?

Mod: Is cult possible or is that epic bastard?

i guess i would say the game is also not even regular bastard. there are no cults or alignment changes

[mastina]

I'm mech conftown though 2 players can definitely confirm i'm town, and for some reason another 3/4 players are also doing so. So good luck with that!

Most people were of the opinion that Morning Mage's twilight posts hard-spewed him as scum.

Thinking on it, I've actually come to the opposite conclusion. Yes, surprise! Shock! I am reevaluating my take on him and now am of the opinion that he's actually locktown.


Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Morning Mage

Guess what the

real

reason for my turnaround townread on Morning Mage was?
(Almost50 told us that Morning Mage was the third mason early. This would also be why I deliberately put off towncasing Morning Mage; I really didn't have so much as a single thing to towncase the slot off of because the read was purely a mechanical clear. As shown by them being listed right under the other two masons.)

[mastina]

What does the play tell you?

On jjh?

Nothing.

Scum-jjh used to be lurker-jjh, BUT, that meta is thoroughly obsolete, as not only,
1: has scum-jjh proven he can and will be a not-lurker, but also,
2: town-jjh has repeatedly time and time again demonstrated that he can and will be a lurker.

So jjh being a lurker here? By play is completely and utterly dead-null.

In terms of contributions for however sparse they may be though?

Still town, because:

Hey mastina, I was gonna vote Titus
Can you confirm once more your strong disagreement with this course of action

jjh's way of working with me felt town,

motifs of the series:

assignment of roles to town by mafia; heavy information to mafia;

night actions being determined by events (e.g., two players are assigned to collaboratively use a doctor ability); normal roles or otherwise non-flashy roles; uncertain guilties vs. certain innocents; setup fake-outs; vanilla by any other name tastes just as sweet.

Shit I missed this too

Okay my role is like, the worst imaginable that could be assigned to jjh927

Okay my role is like, the worst imaginable that could be assigned to jjh927

Yeah I wouldn't want to roll caught scum either :/

Nonono, someone has gone through a list of roles and assigned me the one that fits me and the way I tend to play the least

I am what they call an early game player because I actually find scum in the early game and then I get killed so I don't get to play in the late game
I only tend to see lategame when I have roles that can prevent me from dying, my record with which speaks for itself

I liked jjh's mechanical takes on things and feel he was being very genuine and sincere in this,

Yeah that wasn't a meme vote

I liked what little he did give, and,

Not too sure about it right now but then I also respect your play
Also chances are you're probably a mafia roleblocker

Given scum had a 1x alien, I liked this take on things even if the player he was using the logic on was town. (Basically, a good take.)

Are these strong reasons to townread jjh off of play?

Oh hell no, of course they're not. They're borderline-rvs-levels of "town indicators, but weak town indicators", because jjh hasn't given a lot.
But given the mechanical reasons are fairly strong...

[mastina]

I don't get it. You can't do this crap here.

I can and have, fairly successfully I might add; I've been one of the better players at doing so.

That being said, I'll admit/confess; my efforts here this game are less successful than in prior games because I can only guess, I can only assume, what schadd_ thought of the six nontown protowns. It's an admittedly huge variable in the setup because it's hard to gauge what schadd_ thought of our groups in terms of setup balance.

The heavy presence of third party throws off the ease of interpreting simple town/scum outguessing of the mod.

[mastina]

What reason do you have to believe the ungated ascetic claim??

Because,
1: ascetic is a passive role, not an activated role, therefore, is not a role that schadd_'s likely to tack on modifiers for,
2: ascetic is a bad role to put modifiers like x-shot on because with it as a passive action, handling how players target you is rather awkward,
3: ascetic is one of schadd_'s favorite roles to put into games as either alignment; schadd_ almost always has an ascetic in his games. Like, 80+% of schadd_ games have an ascetic in them. These ascetic roles are never gated.

So the ungated ascetic claim is 100% truthful; the only question is whether the role is town or scum and I believe both from play and setup spec that it's more likely to be a town role.

[mastina]

Its amazing you guys are not focusing on the mechanical inconsistency that April detected motion from titus and madrina says he can't.

Instead you're just doing the small brained play on shoving me down. Like those tho are saying 3p is town and should never be executing are like communist apologists.

Math blade if you think that a clear contradiction is just a 'little thing' you're a truly awful player

For the record.

These are the posts of a playerslot that some people for some reason seem to be defending as being town.

When they're pretty blatant scumplaining to me.

[mastina]

Superbowl9: yes I believe that schadd designed a 23p large with 5scum that may not be able to kill and a bunch of town siding 3p that gives great power roles. What a joy that is and thus norwegian boy is innocent

Like, can anyone tell me how this is not a "scum complaining that they can't kill all of the players considered conftown" post?

Read this and find me an interpretation which isn't complaining that the game has too many conftowns.

Keep in mind that there's a minimum of 33% chance that DDL is literally mod-confirmed scum. A minimum of 50%, if you like me feel jjh is town.

[mastina]

anyhow,This is very characteristic of town gamma and I can't believe there's a wagon on that slot at the end of page 40
there's scum on that mini wagon imo

if gamma is scum I think he coasts at this point
any sort of effort (for gamma emerald) is decent effort at this stage of the game

(There's also this--yes, defending Gamma isn't inherently scum since at least two town people, A50/April, did it, but it certainly does you no favors.)

[mastina]

Nero how did Mastina reset when April flipped green? What did your hood do?

I entered heavy support mode, owned up to the fuckup, stopped pushing my will on others, acknowledged that I had done so, explained myself but admitted that while the explanations explained my behavior they did not excuse the behavior, and tried to smooth over some tensions, keep things civil, try to see if I could get us on the same page, etc.

More or less.

[mastina]

ive had a think - i prefer a Pickaxe Pete flip out of the modconfscum group

I strongly prefer DDL from that group given I seem to be one of the few to have critically analyzed Pickaxe Pete's iso and looked at key indicators there that make me think town, and jjh being a townread by both mechanics and play. (I did hash out an explanation of this in the neighborhood pt, will make a public version when caught up.)

[mastina]

I am baffled by why DDl is getting SRed when he's being the most protown I've ever seen him be

I re-read Gamma ISO. Like a TGP flip.

I would like to note that Gamma defended DDL and did not attack Tayl0r for something that he should have attacked Tayl0r for (Menalque, the N1 probable-scum-nightkill, noted this!), so Gamma's iso implicates both of them;
DDL and Tayl0r were among Gamma's strongest defenders (and while, yes, town could and did defend Gamma as shown by both Almost50 and April, defending Gamma is still by and large a fairly reasonable scum indicator especially if you go out of your way to defend him when you're not someone who should have reason to), so their own isos implicate both of them.

Both of them would be among my top scum candidates; DDL being in a list of three that's guaranteed to contain one scum when I've decent reasons to townread the other two is the cherry on top of the already-existing reasons to scumread him.

[mastina]

Okay, maybe Titus is right about Pickaxe. He’s more natural as town.

His iso seems pretty natural to me; care to explain to the contrary?

[mastina]

Do we really know the wincons of goliath gouthwits health interns 1 2 and 3? Or are non-goaliath-gouthwits-health-interns-1-2-and-3-third-party-with-town-(possibly)-((ish))-wincon just playing them for suckers? I think this syntax is more clear and direct.

^Pretty much this.
You can be very technical and call the confirmed-nonscum to be confirmed-nonscum when they are, strictly speaking, confirmed to not be scum even though they are technically not town.

Or you can, for the sake of simplicity, just label them as conftown and save yourselves the headache.
This game has seven conftown right now.
That is a statement that is, strictly speaking, technically, not wholly accurate--but it is still accurate enough and far simpler to say than the alternative syntaxes, and conveys the point.

There's seven players who should never be eliminated during the day.

[mastina]

Pickaxe Pete - not a great ISO at all
shellyc - Predecessor was very scummy.
jjh927 - this guy has been lurky as hell, so i can't really say scummy. but he was here since the start and has an award for "best replacement". lurkerscum?
MathBlade - good player, overall has felt town, feels slightly less town today for reasons. I was more bought into him being town when he was tunnelled on the masons, now I'm less sold.
Chemist1422 - pretty null, i'll go town by PoE I guess.
DiamondSentinel - blindly attacking the masons, which would be very dumb as scum, as explained above.
Something_Smart - understands how this game works, even if scum, for goodness sake don't shoot this guy, we need his knowledge.

Since this is a list of 'would most shoot' and yet also lists some names as town, I feel the need to contest this.

I contest the not good iso of Pickaxe Pete;
I contest that shellyc's predecessor was scummy;
I contest on jjh;
I contest on Mathblade being in the 'would-eliminate' category and think he should be out of it;
I contest on Misty being town by poe as she very much belongs in the 'would-eliminate' category;
I contest on DiamondSentinel being scum;
I contest on Something_Smart being in the 'would-eliminate' category as he belongs outside of it.

But the names not listed here, I either agree with or don't feel like contesting.

[mastina]

ok im now 40 pages behind and dont see myself spending all day reading those pages. can someone give me the highlights? have we caught scum yet?

Have we caught scum? Hmmm. Let’s see... Can you vote yourself?

^My sentiments.