Is it time to crack down on 4Chan

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chamber
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Post Post #25  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 1:38 pm

You can't stop anonymous hate speech without radically restructuring the whole internet.
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Post Post #26  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 1:49 pm

Yeah but can't you make it inconvenient enough that far fewer people bother?
Y'know the same way stopping music piracy would require radically restructuring the internet, except bonking one or two of the most popular has been enough to dramatically cut it.
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Post Post #27  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 1:51 pm

In post 25, chamber wrote:You can't stop anonymous hate speech without radically restructuring the whole internet.


too many people calling for radical censorship don't get how the internet works
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chamber
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Post Post #28  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 3:08 pm

In post 26, popsofctown wrote:Yeah but can't you make it inconvenient enough that far fewer people bother?
Y'know the same way stopping music piracy would require radically restructuring the internet, except bonking one or two of the most popular has been enough to dramatically cut it.


Piracy didn't slow down because big names got bopped. It slowed down because legal means caught up with the superior (previously)illegal distribution methods. You might be able to reduce the size of microphone for hate speech, and I'm ok with that. Banning youtube accounts or twitter accounts engaging in hate speech. But someone could be completely anonymous on mafiascum and still traffic in hate speech. How many sites like mafiascum are there? 1000s.
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Post Post #29  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 3:23 pm

You don't need to restructure the entire internet. Someone owns/runs 4chan, make them legally responsible to moderate it's contents. Cloudflare hosts 4chan. Make Cloudflare legally responsible for what they host. Put the onus on hosts and operators to not let people eggs each other into committing violent hate-based acts.
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Post Post #30  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 3:36 pm

chilling effect bud
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chamber
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Post Post #31  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 3:45 pm

Cloudflare is a CDN. You blatantly have no idea what you are talking about.
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Post Post #32  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 4:23 pm

In post 25, chamber wrote:You can't stop anonymous hate speech without radically restructuring the whole internet.


That may be true, but we need to do it.

It is not possible for massive public platforms to self police. It’s commerce it’s public and it needs to be regulated. People should not be able to make anonymous death threats in private or in public.

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Post Post #33  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 4:35 pm

I have to admit that my first instinct is that de-anonymizing the internet is a horrible idea. But I'd need to give it more thought and actually do research before settling on that. I'm just making comments about the technical feasibility. Its not remotely simple.
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Post Post #34  (ISO)  » Wed May 08, 2019 4:53 pm

Totally agree. I started on dial-up BBSs so I know why anonymity is appealing. Back then, anonymity seemed essential to me because I didn't want anyone to be able to find out who I was in case they tried to harass or harm me, and everyone was anonymous so there was a sense of freedom.

But humans are just apes, and what we have chosen to do with anonymity proves why society can't allow it. Everyone's information is online now. You can not opt out anymore. If you want to access public or public-facing services, you must be online - and they digitize your information when you use them.

There is no protective anonymity for real people just trying to live their lives. If someone is pissed off at me, they can look me up, find my information, and attack me in any number of ways. But that has always been true. Phonebooks, public records, birth certificates - you can find anyone.

What we as a society must be able to hold people to account for committing crimes. Anonymity obstructs that justice.

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Post Post #35  (ISO)  » Wed May 15, 2019 11:56 pm

It's startling how much people take '4chan' and 'anonymous' as some sort of internet fascist hate-group due to the hyperbolic echo-chamber that exists within some of its forums and the law-breaking activity that some users have pursued. It's as if you read something particularly hateful or raunchy in a speakeasy thread here and then assumed everyone else on this site must hold the same views. Forums, regardless of moderation, exist as a place for people to interact and for ideas and opinions to be exchanged. Shutting down 4chan doesn't do anything to actually address the issue that some hateful ideas and opinions exist. I go to 4chan to discuss and discover niche entertainment in comics, games, and anime and spend a lot of my time on their comics and mecha forums, which generally regard the political side of the site as containment boards for vocal idiots.

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Post Post #36  (ISO)  » Thu May 16, 2019 3:36 am

In post 35, Varsoon wrote:It's startling how much people take '4chan' and 'anonymous' as some sort of internet fascist hate-group due to the hyperbolic echo-chamber that exists within some of its forums and the law-breaking activity that some users have pursued. It's as if you read something particularly hateful or raunchy in a speakeasy thread here and then assumed everyone else on this site must hold the same views. Forums, regardless of moderation, exist as a place for people to interact and for ideas and opinions to be exchanged. Shutting down 4chan doesn't do anything to actually address the issue that some hateful ideas and opinions exist. I go to 4chan to discuss and discover niche entertainment in comics, games, and anime and spend a lot of my time on their comics and mecha forums, which generally regard the political side of the site as containment boards for vocal idiots.


It's nice to finally get some sanity in this topic. Trying to take down 4chan is an absolutely horrible idea; I'm willing to guess that a good portion of the people advocating for this "nuclear option" have never even gone there. I may despise most of the hellhole that is /b/, but I will staunchly defend its right to exist.

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Post Post #37  (ISO)  » Thu May 16, 2019 4:35 am

It's all a hellhole, not just b and pol. There are other places on the internet that don't cater to the scum of the earth. I think 4chan is less bad than its younger brothers but it's still p awful.
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Post Post #38  (ISO)  » Fri May 17, 2019 4:49 pm

I'm on the side that this isn't a smart move. They'll move somewhere else and poison the well there.
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Post Post #39  (ISO)  » Sat May 18, 2019 8:54 am

Keep blowing up the well.
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Post Post #40  (ISO)  » Sat May 18, 2019 11:09 am

In post 38, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm on the side that this isn't a smart move. They'll move somewhere else and poison the well there.

They won't move en masse together. They will scatter, and scatter. And eventually you only have a few parts per million and they are negated.

Maybe we can't abolish racism, but we can neutralize it by dilution.
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Post Post #41  (ISO)  » Sat May 18, 2019 1:58 pm

In post 39, Panzerjager wrote:Keep blowing up the well.

Eventually you will destroy every well in town
In post 40, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 38, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm on the side that this isn't a smart move. They'll move somewhere else and poison the well there.

They won't move en masse together. They will scatter, and scatter. And eventually you only have a few parts per million and they are negated.

Maybe we can't abolish racism, but we can neutralize it by dilution.

This may make sense but I've seen less awful communities doing migrations due to platform changes (specifically stuff like the effects of the tumblr NSFW and art ban) and I'm pretty sure they'd stick together, and that is amplified by knowing some of the shit 4chan and co. have gotten up to (I'm 12 and what is this, anybody?) and I don't see it shaking out well.
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Post Post #42  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:08 am

CloudFlare booted 8chan. https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/termina ... for-8chan/

Was that so hard? It only took them several mass murders before they started see a pattern.

Keep deplatforming the fuckers.
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Post Post #43  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:42 am

theyve just moved somewhere more insulated

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Post Post #44  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:50 am

but apparently their new host doesn't actually own the hardware, and the company they were renting from shut down their servers

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Post Post #45  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:19 pm

The real problem with 4chan is /pol/ and /b/. If you got rid of those sections of the site, the rest is a bit reactionary but far from ban-worthy. I visit /vp/ (the pokemon board) frequently when a new game comes out.
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Post Post #46  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:47 pm

In post 28, chamber wrote:
In post 26, popsofctown wrote:Yeah but can't you make it inconvenient enough that far fewer people bother?
Y'know the same way stopping music piracy would require radically restructuring the internet, except bonking one or two of the most popular has been enough to dramatically cut it.


Piracy didn't slow down because big names got bopped. It slowed down because legal means caught up with the superior (previously)illegal distribution methods. You might be able to reduce the size of microphone for hate speech, and I'm ok with that. Banning youtube accounts or twitter accounts engaging in hate speech. But someone could be completely anonymous on mafiascum and still traffic in hate speech. How many sites like mafiascum are there? 1000s.

Piracy is completely different. Pirates don’t need to recruit people to the idea of piracy, we all want free stuff. The entire problem with sites like 8chan is that they radicalize people who would otherwise not be a problem. If you shut down the big gathering places and replace them with a collection of random sites, they won’t be able to recruit nearly as effectively.
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Post Post #47  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:29 pm

In post 44, shaft.ed wrote:but apparently their new host doesn't actually own the hardware, and the company they were renting from shut down their servers

Actually, it looks like voxility has yanked the content from their servers. :D

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Post Post #48  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:30 pm

In post 47, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 44, shaft.ed wrote:but apparently their new host doesn't actually own the hardware, and the company they were renting from shut down their servers

Actually, it looks like voxility has yanked the content from their servers. :D

which is kinda great because it means Daily Stormer came down with 8chan

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Post Post #49  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:53 pm

In post 48, shaft.ed wrote:
In post 47, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 44, shaft.ed wrote:but apparently their new host doesn't actually own the hardware, and the company they were renting from shut down their servers

Actually, it looks like voxility has yanked the content from their servers. :D

which is kinda great because it means Daily Stormer came down with 8chan

I wonder if any past scummers are suddenly going to show back up.
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