Individual-1 (Donald Trump)

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James Brafin
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Post Post #22125  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:48 pm

In post 22112, Dongempire wrote:
In post 22110, James Brafin wrote:Of course that’s what he believes.
That’s what Trump tells him. And of course everything Trump says is true.
Right?
*Points At Alabama*

Mocking people wont achieve anything. If you have anything constructive to say then say it. Circlejerking trumps misdemeanor doesnt change anything


That’s not my point.
My point is that you’re wasting your breath.
Anyone who is this stubborn is NEVER going to see it from your point of view, no matter what evidence you provide. It’s not that what you are saying isn’t valid, it that you’re beating your head against a brick wall. They are never goin to believe what you are saying, even when presented with the cold hard truth, simply because they don’t want to.
That’s why Pers keeps vanishing when he’s proven wrong; he doesn’t want what your saying to be true and so extracts himself so he doesn’t have to hear and accept it.
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Post Post #22126  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:02 pm

Sometimes it's good to argue with ideologues to remind the audience that they're being idiots

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Post Post #22127  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:38 pm

my favorite thing about arguing with an ideologue is gradually becoming the very thing i swore to destroy
sufjan's gonna write a song about me

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Post Post #22128  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:49 pm

Psyche with the existential wisdom

Persivul
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Post Post #22129  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:16 am

In post 22116, panthaleon wrote:Man like two things

1) You do know that just because a place is better than another in some regards doesn't mean that the former is great or even necessarily good.

Yes. IIRC I noted that early on - if the US is awful, the countries people are leaving to come to the US must be real shitholes. To me, it's not a case of good or bad, but rather of better or worse. Anyone can dream up a utopia and say that any country on earth is awful compared to it, but that's pretty meaningless.
Like hooray you can be exploited for a better wage than in some other places.

Same thing here. You likely feel that most workers are being exploited. That's meaningless. A worker making a higher wage is better off than one making a lower wage for the same work. It doesn't matter if you think they're both being exploited.

I make $140K. But, the owner bills $330K for my work. Am I being exploited?

2) If the US destabilizes a place so bad that they need to leave it to seem opportunity elsewhere, that is a bad thing that the US has done.

Yep. I haven't argued otherwise.
Why is it so important to you that the US is some bastion of greatness?

It isn't. Rather, it seems very important for many here to see the US as awful, and the cause of most of the world's problems.

Why do you refuse to acknowledge any historical fault?

I don't. Neither do I accept historical fault - particularly from 170 years ago - as primary cause for immigration to the US today.

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Post Post #22130  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:52 am

In post 22121, Flubbernugget wrote:Mexican American war is again not a cause,

Read dumbass

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Post Post #22131  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:54 am


Maruchan
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Post Post #22132  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:02 am

In post 22095, Persivul wrote:
In post 22092, Equinox wrote:There are many factors to immigration that are not conducive to the decision-making process that you have outlined here. Quality of life may be a part of the decision to go to the United States, but oftentimes it's not a matter of deciding between Canada, Germany, or the United States; it's a matter of "I have connections in the U.S., so it is the U.S. or nothing". Choosing a country is not a luxury that many immigrants to the U.S. have.

That just begs the question, why do they have connections in the US and nowhere else? Their connections aren't moving from the US back to the other country for a reason.

Besides, my snark was directed at the choice of a metric being an objective process; it is not. Choosing a metric for X reasons is subject to biases such as assuming that immigration-related decisions occur in a vacuum and are 100% free choices.

This certainly isn't completely objective, but it's more objective than simply saying the US is awful because they've interfered with other countries.

I wanna emigrate from the US

I have connections nowhere

I am very limited in my choice

guess I'm stuck with the US ohwell
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Post Post #22133  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:40 am

In post 22132, Maruchan wrote:That just begs the question, why do they have connections in the US and nowhere else? Their connections aren't moving from the US back to the other country for a reason.

You ask the question like it's a rhetorical one with a "Duh!" answer, so I'm going to point out that, at some point, the U.S. probably did something or had something that led to the first wave of immigrants to show up. These things are not necessarily correlated with the U.S. being magnanimous. The specifics will vary by era, war that sparked emigration, people, etc., so unless you care -- actually care -- about the plight of non-U.S. people, I will not be singing for you the song of my people.

However, I am not just responding in order to snark; I wanted to point out that reverse immigration is a thing. Some came to the U.S., realized that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be, and moved back. Some moved to the U.S., realized that their countries of origin are actually better, and moved back.
revise and resubmit

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Post Post #22134  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:48 am

In post 22129, Persivul wrote:
In post 22116, panthaleon wrote:Man like two things

1) You do know that just because a place is better than another in some regards doesn't mean that the former is great or even necessarily good.

Yes. IIRC I noted that early on - if the US is awful, the countries people are leaving to come to the US must be real shitholes. To me, it's not a case of good or bad, but rather of better or worse. Anyone can dream up a utopia and say that any country on earth is awful compared to it, but that's pretty meaningless.

They arent
And even if they are, so what? The US sucks balls too and it has much larger influence compared to some place like mexico, so it shapes other countries in its own shitty image whereas a place like brazil just lives and dies on its own.

You still havent told me why the US is actually good. From where im kneeling it looks like a shithole for a middle class citizen and keeps going downhill.

By the way, the mentality of comparing the us to other countries and saying they are worse is really redundant. The US is the most powerfull economy in the world, and it leads the world in millions of sectors. Of course it looks better compared to another country. Yet for everything it has it also has a shortcoming, but when we bring it up you just reverse back to "other country sucks" which is a terrible argument style
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Dongempire
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Post Post #22135  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:01 am

In post 22129, Persivul wrote:
Why is it so important to you that the US is some bastion of greatness?

It isn't. Rather, it seems very important for many here to see the US as awful, and the cause of most of the world's problems.

The US may be a better country than syria, china, russia etc. yet it IS the cause of most of the worlds problems.
Middle east is a warzone thanks to US meddling and supporting terrorism.
Its prisons are a punishment zone instead of rehabilitation, so that troubled individuals get kicked while they are down even more
Income equality is at an all time high, with billionaires, most recent example David Cock, using their wealth to generate more wealth at the cost of everyone else
Military industrial complex

I'm not going to bother with proof since you can research it if you want to. These are just the ones that i remembered now.
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Post Post #22136  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:08 am

Middle East destabilization has a lot more to do with France/Britain after WWI than anything the US has done

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Post Post #22137  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:17 am

I can't imagine going through life feeling as powerless as most of you feel.

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Post Post #22138  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:18 am

Some of it maybe, israel and palestine most notably. However the syrian civil war wouldnt have escalated this much without the saudis and us supporting isis during their prime

The european governments simply drew on the map with their penises and then left it there, however us involvement is still fairly recent and more impactful
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Flubbernugget
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Post Post #22139  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:19 am

That's fair

Dongempire
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Post Post #22140  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:19 am

In post 22137, Persivul wrote:I can't imagine going through life feeling as powerless as most of you feel.

thanks for the input
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Post Post #22141  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:21 am

If I felt powerless I wouldn't be spending so much time denouncing your stupidity.

James Brafin
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Post Post #22142  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:42 am

In post 22137, Persivul wrote:I can't imagine going through life feeling as powerless as most of you feel.

AoE
You do realize when you say stuff like this, you make yourself sound even more unintelligent, right?
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Post Post #22143  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:53 am

I think this is going in circles.

"America destroys and exploits other countries and as a result a pretty terrible place"
"But it's better to live in America because the other countries are destroyed and exploited."
"But America destroyed and exploited other countries, so it's pretty bad"
"But the other countries are destroyed and exploited, so America is better"
"But...

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Post Post #22144  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:54 am

In post 22142, James Brafin wrote:You do realize when you say stuff like this, you make yourself sound even more unintelligent, right?

Haven't considered it as I don't care. For years I've thought that locus of control probably explains a lot of the political divide. This is more confirmation.

I guess if you see yourself as speaking truth to power, then you necessarily feel under powered, and eventually see all power as ignorant/evil/at fault.

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Post Post #22145  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:58 am

What? lol

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Post Post #22146  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:00 pm

In post 22137, Persivul wrote:I can't imagine going through life feeling as powerless as most of you feel.

It's not lack of power. It's a renouncement of the abdication of social responsibility.
Last edited by Equinox on Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #22147  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:01 pm

I
Fluminator wrote:I think this is going in circles.

"America destroys and exploits other countries and as a result a pretty terrible place"
"But it's better to live in America because the other countries are destroyed and exploited."
"But America destroyed and exploited other countries, so it's pretty bad"
"But the other countries are destroyed and exploited, so America is better"
"But...

I agree. Yet in the same vein i cant think of what else to discuss that isnt circlejerking trumps shit.
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Post Post #22148  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:04 pm

Repitition is important when it's being abused by a massive influence in the US

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Post Post #22149  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:04 pm

In post 22144, Persivul wrote:
In post 22142, James Brafin wrote:You do realize when you say stuff like this, you make yourself sound even more unintelligent, right?

Haven't considered it as I don't care. For years I've thought that locus of control probably explains a lot of the political divide. This is more confirmation.

I guess if you see yourself as speaking truth to power, then you necessarily feel under powered, and eventually see all power as ignorant/evil/at fault.

Can you give an example of a group who thinks that
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