So I’m getting banned...

[Firebringer]

maybe we should all just kill each other because there's no point

I like this idea.

[Firebringer]

I sometimes wonder when people go against the meat industry, they realize they are just campaigning for the deaths of the animals they are "trying to save". Most animals that end up in PETA shelters are euthanized.

like realistically all you do is save a future generation of farm animals from being created and killed. You kill the current generation to stop it though. What happens once it ends? All the animals aren't just going to be let free and prosper in the wild. They will all die either right after the industry ends or upon any "release". I often wonder what do people think happens to animals in the real sense of when it ends. It will end I am certain of it but like I don't think the end of story is any amazing peaceful graceful story anyone actually imagines it will be.

Seems more like a silent end to a deathly cycle of animal cruelty with one last scream and then complete silence.

[Firebringer]

It's not realistic to assume it would end with the snap of fingers. More likely its a slow trickle away from meat consumption, and reduced production as consumption declines.

Yeah and I completely agree. I am just saying that we didn't really save any animals. We just stopped future animals from existing.

Instead of improving conditions of farm animals to improve their lives we are just gonna abandon it, that is the future to me. People don't seem to pick up on that though it almost is like saying its better to not be alive than living.

like people only care about the cruelty they see not what will happen or what the outcome of just making this sweeping change will have on the actual future of the animals besides them not having to worry about the cruelty imposed on them now.

[Firebringer]

it's probably worse than stealing, assault, all of that

no way

[Firebringer]

it's probably worse than stealing, assault, all of that

no way

give me one good reason why not
sure would be a lot of weight off my shoulders if you could change my mind

personally i am fine with being eaten after i die. So i think it works out fine. Also think if i could help someone by providing them with sustenance instead of just having my body rot is better than not.

take that to animals and we just have better treatment of the animals before we eat them. We can have ethical farming. Its the poor treatment of them that's the problem, not the killing/eating portion.

[Firebringer]

they are killed though it's not like people just wait for the animals to live out the natural course of their lives

i really don't morally equate this to murder. humans don't murder humans for the same reasons they kill farm animals. To say both acts are morally equivalent because they result in the same end outcome seems silly as saying pre-meditated murder is the same as a third-degree murder.

[Firebringer]

its a justifiable killing.

[Firebringer]

Am I the only one that gets the impression that this entire debate is more a communication problem than a moral problem

That's like every debate I see with massively diverging views

Oh good I'm not crazy then!

Welll.....

I wouldn’t go that far

But in this instance you are sand

[Firebringer]

Sane*

[Firebringer]

I'll call up my gay buddy who was found beaten, lit on fire, and left for dead on the side of a train track and tell him to stop trying to play the victim.

jesus fucking Christ. Who the fuck are you arguing with?

[Firebringer]

Amrun has really bad posts in this thread.

[Firebringer]

if he is a conservative troll you are letting him win by arguing with him and getting mad about it.

btw don't think he is a conservative troll but yeah, ill echo what KK said. You should at least stop straw manning him.

[Firebringer]

probably because the only one who sounds truly hateful in this conversation is you. Persivul has an unpopular opinion but doesn't appear to actually hate anyone. Not approving of homosexuality doesn't equal "I hate all gays" or "I want all gays to die" or "gays don't have the right to exist" or whatever you want to insert.

I feel like that has been explored so much that you should get that.

[Firebringer]

probably because the only one who sounds truly hateful in this conversation is you. Persivul has an unpopular opinion but doesn't appear to actually hate anyone. Not approving of homosexuality doesn't equal "I hate all gays" or "I want all gays to die" or "gays don't have the right to exist" or whatever you want to insert.

I feel like that has been explored so much that you should get that.

It more or less does though. Him claiming otherwise doesn't change that.

Do you believe that we can't separate the act that people disagree with, with the people who perform it?

For instance if I hate smoking, does that mean I can't like someone who smokes or should I hate them for smoking?

[Firebringer]

man i wish homosexuals were never persecuted though.

because tbh. fmpov sexuality is just not that interesting about a person that we should tie it to someones identity.

[Firebringer]

sexuality should be as integrated to your identity as which hand is your dominate. Not that important! Unless you play sports I guess....

[Firebringer]

I am sorry the thing that groups in power have used to persecute and kill people isn't interesting enough for you. That doesn't really change the past or how the past informs the present context.

frankly you would think they wouldn't kill gays because that's less competition for mates. I mean i really think they were being dumb too. Like come on guys, you should be killing other straights. They are the real threat.

[Firebringer]

sexuality should be as integrated to your identity as which hand is your dominate. Not that important! Unless you play sports I guess....

Neat. But your desired outcome doesn't really change historical context. As long as people seek to denigrate gay people, they going to identify by that marker.

You know kind of like people used to call left-handed people satanic and beat that out of them. People then could very easily identify with the shared struggle of being left handed. That's actually a pretty dope analogy, firebringer.

funny story, i was born left handed and my mother tried to force me to change to right handed because as she was born left handed and it was beaten out of her. It didn't stick though, she wasn't very good at ensuring I sticked to being right handed.

[Firebringer]

like, if you eliminate sexuality from the typical person or from society in general, so much is gone
there's a gaping void i don't think would be so obvious if, say, we all stopped thinking about race

ive been meaning to tell you that from our last discussion on straight culture, i think u were more on the point than i was. For better or worse our sexuality has played a huge role in our culture and by that i mean straights then i wanted to admit.

i still think integration of the cultures is better but like ur def right on the impact.

[Firebringer]

r u sure i changed ur mind i sure was awfully angry and passive aggressive

well you made much better points than i made and then thinking it over i couldn't really disagree with them. So...yeah