Texas Hold'em - what would you do?

[Rhinox]

So, I play hold'em at work during lunchtime. Today I made a call which some players viewed as a bad call, but I ended up winning the pot. I'll describe the scenario and I want to know would you have done the same or was I way off base?

So, the game is no limit hold'em. No money is on the line. Everyone starts with 50 chips, and if you go out, you can chip up. Its a 30-day tournament and we're about mid way through. Chip count doesn't carry over, but a tally is kept with a winner declared at the end of the 30 days. If you start with 50 and end with 0 for the day, you get 0 for the day. If you chip up once and lose the second 50, you drop to -50 for the day. If you never chip up at all, at the end of the day, the total number of chips you have is your daily total.

Blinds start out at 1 and 2, go to 2 and 4 after everyone deals once, and finally 3 and 6 after everyone deals twice. The hand in question came late in the day with blinds at 3 and 6.

I was having an alright day up to the hand in question. I had somewhere between 50-100 chips. A couple hands ago, a player lost a bunch of chips and started playing on tilt. The next hand, he goes all in after everyone called a raise to 12 by another player and managed to buy the pot pre-flop. The very next hand (the hand in question), he raises to 26 pre-flop. I was a little annoyed at that and I figured he had nothing and was pulling the same shit as the previous hand, so I decide to call with 10-7 suited (clubs). (I don't remember exactly what he had, but I believe it was face cards, and no pair). I figured he had nothing and was just trying to make up ground, and I had enough chips where I didn't mind to pay the 20 to see the flop. I figured I'd be folding if I didn't get at least 2 clubs on the flop.

Well, the flop came up 7-7-(face card). The face card gave him high pair and he goes all in. Of course I call, and win.

So, what do you think... knowing none of the context, I would agree that I would never call a raise to 26 pre-flop with nothing but 10-7 suited. Given the context, I believe that I did make the right call, knowing that the majority of the time I'm folding when I don't get my clubs and donating 20 - because I had the chips to spare - and knowing the player in question was overbetting just to make up ground quick.


Just adding in this next part because its great for the drama... he chipped up and either the next hand or the hand after he goes all-in with pocket 10's.... I had pocket J's... he left the room after that hand...

[Cobalt]

The call that wins is always a good call.

[Rhinox]

I guess maybe I mean "good" as in ethical, rational, logical, etc.

[Cobalt]

You don't get chips for ethical, rational, or logical.

[Mr. Flay]

Of course it was rational/logical; you figured out the other player's system.

I don't honestly see what ethics has to do with it. You weren't peeking, card counting, or signaling.

[molestargazer]

Good call. You thought he was bluffing, so did something about it...

[Rhinox]

You don't get chips for ethical,

rational

, or

logical

.

I disagree... I believe playing rationally and logically will net you many more chips over the long run rather than playing irrationally and illogically. If I wanted to be ethical, I guess I should have folded my 7's after paying to see the flop since probably 90% (guessing) of the time I don't get the clubs I was looking for and fold anyways.

[mith]

If you were 100% certain that he was going to make that raise pre-flop no matter what he had, then 10-7 suited is above the break even point, and calling is the right decision.

I don't know that you had any reason to be certain of that, though - going all-in when everyone else is in the pot and winning that pot isn't exactly the definition of "on tilt" - particularly given he did have face cards in the hand in question rather than junk. It's possible he just made a good bluff the first time, and then got good cards (or even that he had good cards both hands). I'd lean toward "lucky" rather than "good call" - making a call on the basis that you can "afford to donate the chips if the flop doesn't go your way" isn't good play. But hard to say without knowing how the other player was actually playing.

[Rhinox]

Good call. You thought he was bluffing, so did something about it...

The argument against my call was that I didn't have any cards worthy of calling a bluff, because I had nothing myself, or so they said. My rebuttal was that a suited 10-7 was good enough to try to catch a flush draw. I probably wouldn't have called his all-in even if I only got a pair of 10's on the flop.

[Thok]

The danger with calling there isn't the guy on tilt (assuming you've read him correctly); it's the other people at the table who could show up with a monster hand. That's actually info you haven't given us (how many people had a chance to respond to your call.)

[Rhinox]

If you were 100% certain that he was going to make that raise pre-flop no matter what he had, then 10-7 suited is above the break even point, and calling is the right decision.

I don't know that you had any reason to be certain of that, though - going all-in when everyone else is in the pot and winning that pot isn't exactly the definition of "on tilt" - particularly given he did have face cards in the hand in question rather than junk. It's possible he just made a good bluff the first time, and then got good cards (or even that he had good cards both hands). I'd lean toward "lucky" rather than "good call" - making a call on the basis that you can "afford to donate the chips if the flop doesn't go your way" isn't good play. But hard to say without knowing how the other player was actually playing.

well, I didn't exactly make the call simply because I could afford to donate chips, I made the call because I thought he was bluffing so I'd have at least as good hole cards and an equally good chance as him of pulling something on the flop. I should have worded it that I would not have called had I not been able to afford it.

The reason I figured him for bluffing was because he got heated after losing most of his chips previously, getting beat by a hand that he felt was played improperly - i.e. someone had nothing, called the blinds to see the flop, and then soft played and eventually won with high pair he got on the flop... I call that good play, but this particular player felt that he should have folded pre-flop because he had "nothing".

[Rhinox]

The danger with calling there isn't the guy on tilt (assuming you've read him correctly); it's the other people at the table who could show up with a monster hand. That's actually info you haven't given us (how many people had a chance to respond to your call.)

Ah I forgot about that... I was actually the dealer, everyone else was folded except the blinds, who reacted in a way that I knew they were going to be folding (they did).

[Kmd4390]

I wouldn't have called that pre-flop, but once you caught your 7s, the hand was yours. You got lucky. Lucky isn't a bad thing in poker, but don't count on it too often.

[Ectomancer]

You had opportunity for straight, flush, or trips like you got. Even then, poker is more than the cards you have, it's also about the cards your opponent has or doesn't have and if you think he ain't got'em, then call'em instead of letting him bully blinds out of people.

[Quagmire]

It may have been right to assume that he didn't have anything, however you didn't have anything either... Judging by his having at least 1 face card (what was his hand exactly?) he at minimum had the minor lead in the hand, so you essentially won a 45-55 odds.

Do you always want to risk 1/3 of your chips on T7c? I'd say you should save that for a better hand.

[Fuzzyman]

Of course it was rational/logical; you figured out the other player's system.

I don't honestly see what ethics has to do with it. You weren't peeking, card counting, or signaling.

Card counting is unethical?

[DrippingGoofball]

Stop gambling.

[Porochaz]

What Thok said. Plus I would also take what chip stacks you each had into account. If you were way ahead then yes its an okay call. However once the flop comes down, your good and made the right call, even if he is stupid enough to go all in on a high pair... I think if I was in your situation I probably would have folded, unless I was the only other person in the hand and I had a decent stack then I would have gone all in preflop.

[animorpherv1]

DGB:

No money is on the line.

Rhinox:

I would have gone it to. But I'm not that great a poker player...

[LlamaFluff]

Folding was the right move. You just wait for someone (or yourself) to hit a hand and send those guys packing. Then again I dont play much holdem, I stick to lowball games since thats where I know my odds.

[Porochaz]

Actually Im lying, the way Im playing at the moment I probably would fold every time.

[NabakovNabakov]

I probably would have folded the hand. The desire to mete out comeuppance to a bluffer is strong, but it should be resisted when you don't have good cards, lest the whole thing backfire.

[BloodCovenent]

great call dude, i would have done the same thing. And my friends would have probably given me slack for it too. but still, good job!!

[Quagmire]

Stop gambling.

Stop posting.

[Raskol]

Stop gambling.

Stop posting.

no u