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Post Post #3225  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:54 pm

I liked the alien. Horribly dangerous counter-weighed with cuteness is amusing to me.

This episode was incredibly weak. Just... nothing there. It not only had to be padded with a pointless drawn-out comedy pregnancy b-plot, but the A-plot had to be padded out with pointless running around as well. The Doctor looks dumb because she had to take forever to to figure out that a dumb beast is just after food. It's not a complicated mystery.

I thought maybe creature taking out the escape pods first might indicate a sort of assassination attempt on Eve Cicero or something interesting where the Doctor would have to reason with it or figure out the dark secret Cicero is keeping from her brother. But no. It's just "I'm on a medical ship because I'm sick." level of mystery.

Weak.
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Post Post #3226  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:41 pm

Yeah, it was just another average episode like last weak but without the crap resolution.
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Post Post #3227  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:52 pm

yeah pretty average episode with some fun moments but like episode two had in hindsight it has some real disjointedness? Like some parts of the episode just felt disconnected from the rest like it was just a thing that was largely irrelevant.

I really enjoyed the Doctor in this one though, she was a particular highlight even in comparison to the other episodes.
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Post Post #3228  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:36 pm

I took a look through Chris Chibnalls episodes of Who and apart from Sunshine knock off 42 (which I actually liked) I found them all mediocre and bland, to be fair on him I thought a fair amount of the Gatiss penned ones were by him. But it's not a good collection. These episodes are fine if you want a one off, but so far, excluding the 3rd episode, it's been a series of those Who episodes you don't remember when you look back, because they were just not worth anything.
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Post Post #3229  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:02 pm

The Power of Three is also a great Chibnall episode besides like the massively rushed last 5 minutes

But yeah I've heard someone say that Chibnall is looking to be the "anti-Moffat", where he's good at guiding others and being a series writer (as seen by Rosa being the best episode while he was only partially involved) but not being great episode writer, whereas Moffat wrote great episodes but was a pain of a series writer with all his arcs and confusion
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Post Post #3230  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:27 am

I always hated that criticism, it wasn't that complicated
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Post Post #3231  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:27 am

I don't think it was that complicated but I do generally agree that Moffat wasn't a great series writer, more in the Clara/Bill era though (he was decent as a series writer during the Amy and Rory era)

The biggest issue being that he couldn't give either of those two companions a satisfying resolution despite getting so damn close with each one fucking hell
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Post Post #3232  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:38 am

Well I for one am absolutely adoring Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor, and this is the first series I have been engaged in since the penultimate Matt Smith one.

I also really like the Ryan and Graham - I just hope that Yaz starts to become more interesting.
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Post Post #3233  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:38 am

My fear for Ryan/Graham is that the fist bump things is going to be a major character arc that "pays off" in a super awkward fashion.
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Post Post #3234  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:55 am

i hope its resolution is that ryan/graham sort things out and ryan finally calls him granddad and they're all cool and graham goes for a fist bump and ryan is like "still no on that"
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Post Post #3235  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:56 pm

In post 3234, Davsto wrote:i hope its resolution is that ryan/graham sort things out and ryan finally calls him granddad and they're all cool and graham goes for a fist bump and ryan is like "still no on that"

Kublai Khan wrote:My fear for Ryan/Graham is that the fist bump things is going to be a major character arc that "pays off" in a super awkward fashion.
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Post Post #3236  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:16 pm

Well that was brilliant
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Post Post #3237  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:22 pm

Maybe the issue with this series so far really is Chibnall's episode writing. A bittersweet pill, in that it means we'll get plenty of good episodes (fingers crossed Chibnall writes fewer episodes each series as time goes on as with other series writers) but I am not looking forwards to rolling my eyes every time I see it's going to be one of his. And series finales. Oh well.
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Post Post #3238  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:48 pm

Im writing this whilst watching live,

"I am the gran and I am giving gifts. I am very much reading off a script. I will put no cadence or emotion into my line reading"

Nice location though, wouldn't have that in the old nu-Who.

Not a huge fan of the storyline, Im possibly thinking about this too much but border disputes... meh. Based on one characters "knowledge".

Companions own history... sure the Doctor would be more careful and go down harder on Yaz for being that gobby.

I am not convinced on many of the actors this episode. However the core four are doing a better job this week. Graeme and Yaz particularly. This scene between the two is one of the better ones of the series.

Although Yaz is being a brat this episode.

How many forced ways can we separate the groups? Oh I just laughed. First time this series.

Despite the poor acting, Im really enjoying this story. I like the concept of the aliens.

The Doctor is being a bit dense in the ship here. The gran will absolutely be fine, she's alive in the present.

Welp there is the topic of the week, and the companions holier than thou attitude.

This story is being hampered by the lack of background characters.

That was a touching scene between the two brothers, the actor who played Prem acted the hell out of that, shame the actor who plays Manesh was the poorest of the lot.

I don't get it, the gran did a fine job there.


---

Ok so that first scene did a poor job of setting the rest of the episode up. Because the rest of the episode was great and for once the script was, for the most part, decent. The story on the other hand could have been tightened up slightly. The doctor allowing Yaz that much leeway into her own timeline and allowing her to be as mouthy as she was about it felt off to me. I also think the arbitrary border Manesh made just because he "knew" was a bit shit.

The biggest failing for me was some of the acting, Manesh and the great grandmother were both quite crap, to be blunt. Prem wasn't consistent, but that final scene was excellent. Almost made me cry. The acting from Yaz and Graeme was also good, I loved their scene together. I loved the concept of the aliens, although I think the story could have been serviced better had they been introduced as a threat earlier on. The actor who plays Ryan is still pretty poor though, which is unfortunate as I still view him as the de-facto main character.

I also felt that they made a point of this huge family, then noone was there. Beyond the end, there was no other non important humans on screen. It felt quite barren and oddly lonely at times. Which Im not sure was the aim.

Location was lovely though, the music was good at points but got a little distracting.

Anyway good episode, an 8 from me. However I also am starting to struggle with the Dr Who-ness of it all. I know it's meant to be different, but at a certain point, you have to wonder "where are the aliens?" and I think Who might have lost a little bit of what should be at it's core for me.
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Post Post #3239  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:52 pm

In post 3237, Davsto wrote:Maybe the issue with this series so far really is Chibnall's episode writing. A bittersweet pill, in that it means we'll get plenty of good episodes (fingers crossed Chibnall writes fewer episodes each series as time goes on as with other series writers) but I am not looking forwards to rolling my eyes every time I see it's going to be one of his. And series finales. Oh well.


At this point I don't think the series finale is going to be different from any other episode.
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Post Post #3240  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:05 pm

I thought Mangesh was played really well and I liked that there was a message there about nationalism/radicalisation that seperate to the issue of partition. I think they (for once) were fairly light handed, but clear, about the responsibility Britain had for partition, and all the issues along with it, although idve perhaps like that acknowledged by one of the companions? (It's like noone knowing about the actaul first woman to refuse to give up her seat - the companions seem fairly un-knowing? Maybe they are just being put into more nuanced situations than, say, the blitz or the coronation...)

What's missing for me, and I think it's linked to what poro said, is threat. But also the Dr's response to it - I really need the Dr to be that turn on a dime, righteous anger, we have to leave people to die in Pompeii, not telling the companions the truth about his own death kind of Dr - that's a massive and defining part of who the Dr has always been. It not only adds depth, but also challenge - which I feel I'm missing as an audience member. Yes, moffat's desire to make massive overarching plots and references back to random comments ten episodes ago was not enjoyable, but there's a middle ground between that and being spoon fed, which I feel we are now.

Plus, Jodie deserves that kind of writing. Meeting the spaceship Dr last week and doing some investigation under real pressure, where the Dr was able to demonstrate her credentials, was the most the show has felt like Dr who to me.

Also, it would stop me worrying that they are writing her main personality trait as 'female'. Since eccleston, who was troubled, angry but determined, our drs have had very clear internal narratives/issues. I saw someone comment that Jodie's dr's version was 'breathless playschool teacher', which is harsh, but is entirely the fault of the writing.

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Post Post #3241  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:06 pm

...I can't spell or punctuate on my phone. Also, that was a lot of words.

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Post Post #3242  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:10 pm

Oh one other thing, the next time tease. There is no point. Either do a proper tease or don't do it. That was utterly pointless.

Also, it would stop me worrying that they are writing her main personality trait as 'female'. Since eccleston, who was troubled, angry but determined, our drs have had very clear internal narratives/issues. I saw someone comment that Jodie's dr's version was 'breathless playschool teacher', which is harsh, but is entirely the fault of the writing.


I've been trying to work out where I've been feeling let down the doctors characterisation and I think you've got it. Actually I agree with the threat thing also, I was trying to articulate that in my "who-ness" bit but boiled it down to "wheres the aliens"
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Post Post #3243  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:11 pm

i liked manesh but i got really distracted bc with the round glasses and vaguely similar facial structure he looked a bit like john lennon and i couldn't stop thinking about it
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Post Post #3244  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:47 am

In post 3238, Porochaz wrote:I also think the arbitrary border Manesh made just because he "knew" was a bit shit.

Looking back from the end i feel this was a lead-up to pointing out that manesh was a little shit who was conspiring with the assholes kicking people off the land because of their religion.

"I know this is the border, because this is what the guys who work for the government who are also the angry mob shooting innocent people for differences in religion and heritage told me was the border"
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Post Post #3245  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:32 am

In post 3240, Bellaphant wrote:What's missing for me, and I think it's linked to what poro said, is threat. But also the Dr's response to it - I really need the Dr to be that turn on a dime, righteous anger, we have to leave people to die in Pompeii, not telling the companions the truth about his own death kind of Dr - that's a massive and defining part of who the Dr has always been. It not only adds depth, but also challenge - which I feel I'm missing as an audience member. Yes, moffat's desire to make massive overarching plots and references back to random comments ten episodes ago was not enjoyable, but there's a middle ground between that and being spoon fed, which I feel we are now.

Absolutely, yes, this. It's now been 2 episodes out of four where the Doctor completely and impotently backs down to the power of racism.

However, I did love Moffat's massive overarching plots and I miss them.
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Post Post #3246  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:13 pm

It's kinda been dull other than the pilot and the Rosa Parks episode. Watching the Punjab episode now.

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Post Post #3247  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:16 am

I hope today's episode has a real threat and an actually good villain. When Chibnall said he was going to have no recurring villains in his series, I thought that meant that he had some good ideas for some new ones. Apparently not.
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Post Post #3248  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:09 am

Not expecting much. Saw the preview, not enthused. Robots have been done to death.
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Post Post #3249  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:37 am

In post 3247, mutantdevle wrote:When Chibnall said he was going to have no recurring villains in his series

What, really? Okay, I'm starting to hate Chibnall.

The villains are a part of Doctor Who. It's like reading a series of Batman adventures where he doesn't face the Joker, Catwoman, Two-Face, or any of his known villains. Just an endless series of constantly introducing and defeating shallow characters. If anything, Doctor Who needs a bigger cast of recurring villains.
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