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Post Post #3250  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:30 pm

i believe he said for the FIRST series, no recurring villains to get used to new doc/new companions/new showrunner. he didn't rule it out entirely for the future.
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Post Post #3251  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:52 pm

In post 3250, xRECKONERx wrote:i believe he said for the FIRST series, no recurring villains to get used to new doc/new companions/new showrunner. he didn't rule it out entirely for the future.


Then he needs to do a better job of that.
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Post Post #3252  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:25 pm

Live Watch

I just realised I hate the TARDIS redesign, there is too much going on.
The doctor telling people they are brilliant for just speaking has started to get annoying as well.
Ciara has more dimensions than the companions already and she is clearly about to die.
So bets on who doesn't do enough works and gets "terminated" - Yaz maybe?
Oh look there's the obligatory love story. Guess the girl survives then.
This doctor is thick.
The people manager reminds me a lot of the people manager at my work.
Charlie falling was a bit clunky, his scream and the perceived drop didn't match, also moving from one moving platform to the next without rolling at all...
This episode feels like it was written by a 6 year old.
Oh she died. There we go.
He's the bad guy... I guess he was the only 1 left it could be.
And Graeme is just as thick.

---

Someone had this great idea this year that Dr Who needed a relevant message and then BEAT. US. ROUND. THE. HEAD. WITH. IT.

Doctor Who is meant to be an entertainment show, and Im exhausted watching it just by how preachy it is. I realise that being and entertainment show doesn't preclude it from that, but they need to be smarter about it. 5 episodes now where the enemy has been men, all have been corrupted or radicalised. The doctor has very little personality. Ryan has little to no personality and the actor makes very little effort/isn't good enough to inject a bit of anything into the performance. I'm sorry but he's a bit shit. Yaz is getting better, the last 2 episodes have made me feel like shes a person now, the only good thing about this episode. Graeme, meh.

We are watching a show where they have forgone characterisation, the plots are by the numbers and are the fucking same every week and Im watching a fucking alien show with no damn aliens!!! The one off characters get more to do than the main characters each week! Was Rosa good because it was good storytelling? was it good because it was entertaining? did it do a good job of conveying emotion? Or was it good because it was topical in todays climate and the show dared to go there? For that episode, I think the acting from some of the cast meant that it did do a good job of conveying that emotion, but I thought ultimately it wasn't a good plot.

Do you know what's worse? They teased a bigger threat than the humans, I almost thought we might get some Nestene consciousness down there. I thought we might get some Amazon style corruption storyline - that at least would have been a different story. They had Julie Hesmondhalgh, a phenomenal actress, and she was given fuck all to do. As was Lee Mack. Why make a huge deal of all these big names then do nothing with them! I mean it's Alan Cumming next week. He'll at least chew the scenery a bit.

I'm at the end of this episode and I'm thinking "why am I watching this shite?" I mean before I liked to rag on it a bit because I occasionally get a good episode and whats more ultimately I liked most of the doctors, and failing that (Matt Smith) the companions. They were people who might not have been realistic, but were entertaining. There were absolute shiters of episodes (Love and Monsters - still the worst) but at least most of them whilst flawed, were entertaining. They all had something going for them. I sit there and wish that one of the companions would die because holy hell, would that at least give them something not "by-the-numbers" to do. But Im watching an hour of something that isn't funny, doesn't usually produce an emotion, isn't entertaining, and is terribly scripted.

I mean if this was one episode in any of the other series I might have said "meh, it was a bit shit, by the numbers, but it'll be better next week" but I genuinely think that this is now the best they can produce...

It get's a 2, 1 for giving Yaz something to do and 1 for the bubble wrap thing, another solitary nice idea, utilised poorly. I'll be watching again next week, because Im an Alan Cumming fan, and I'm a completionist, but at this point I'm gaining no joy out of this series whatsoever.
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Post Post #3253  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:11 pm

Ciara has more dimensions than the companions already and she is clearly about to die.

u have no idea about how i nearly lost my shit before i reread the first word huh.
i'll watch the episode tonight i guess.
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Post Post #3254  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:19 pm

In post 3253, Vijarada wrote:
Ciara has more dimensions than the companions already and she is clearly about to die.

u have no idea about how i nearly lost my shit before i reread the first word huh.
i'll watch the episode tonight i guess.


Sorry I assumed anyone checking the thread would have watched the episode/wouldn't care, Ill put it in spoilers if needed.
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Post Post #3255  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:09 pm

lmao no i was just making a joke about clara/ciara, not meaning to guilt u dude
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Post Post #3256  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:24 am

In post 3252, Porochaz wrote:Doctor Who is meant to be an entertainment show, and Im exhausted watching it just by how preachy it is. I realise that being and entertainment show doesn't preclude it from that, but they need to be smarter about it. 5 episodes now where the enemy has been men, all have been corrupted or radicalised. The doctor has very little personality. Ryan has little to no personality and the actor makes very little effort/isn't good enough to inject a bit of anything into the performance. I'm sorry but he's a bit shit. Yaz is getting better, the last 2 episodes have made me feel like shes a person now, the only good thing about this episode. Graeme, meh.

I feel like in the past, the companions start off a bit shy and awe-struck by alien worlds, and it takes a little while for them to break out and become useful adventurers. But these three seems very "alright, let's go explore and solve this problem" without much of an adjustment period. Shouldn't one of them by scared or fearful? All three are still fairly interchangeable except for the general description of "old guy, clumsy, and woman".

I mean, Yaz is standing out as being more empathetic than the other two. So that's a start of something, I guess.

But you're right. The writing is crap. The structure is crap. They can't seem to handle 4 protagonists. There's only so much time in an episode and we have to learn about the location, the problem, the people at the location and their problems, and the enemy's motivation, there's not that much time for in-depth conversation among the Doctor and the companions. We just get perfunctionary "Well, this {location/situation} reminds me of my old life where I {similarity/metaphor}, I {liked/didn't like} that." Which is forced and lazy and I don't feel any emotional connection to any of them.

If it was just one companion we'd have gotten to know them and the Doctor a lot more by this point.

On the plus side, kudos to the production team for the look of the Kerblam robot. Nice cheery/scary combo.
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Post Post #3257  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:52 am

I actaully loved that episode. Yes, it was maybe a bit by the numbers, but it reminded me a lot of The Long Game and that's good: the companions all had things to do, the Dr got to get cross, someone got come-uppance...this felt like massive progress. The robots were creepy but fun, especially the little original. I think they explored some really interesting ideas about mechanisation and the loss of human roles without making it the central plot.

Also, as a dyspraxic , watching Ryan not working out what bit of his body to move to get into the shoot was great, very real! But, the companions are still being written really unevenly - when the writers rmemebr they are people, they do much better.

(Ryan's actor is by far the weakest tho)

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Post Post #3258  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:55 am

Ugh, I mean bad wolf.

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Post Post #3259  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:06 pm

Live thoughts...

Wasn't going to do this but have a number of thoughts already and Im a few minutes in.

- One of the things I love about this new series is the opening credits. If the episodes kept up the tension of that, then I'd have a lot less problems.
- No companion going to try and do any CPR/compression etc. Don't want you doing First Aid on me then...
- Witchfinder general... reminds me of a certain late night channel 4 comedy character that certainly wouldn't go down well here. Made me smile at least.
- This is the exposition segment of the episode.
- Send the companion off on her own, she'll obviously not get into trouble.
- That accent, oh dear... I mean I know Alan Cumming is Scottish but you should choose one and stick to it. (I briefly met him, he reopened a music venue in my town and proceeded to get excessively drunk and dance everywhere - name drop...)
- He is the best Good Wife alum so far this series though.
- Don't know who decided on the mud splatter on the camera but it took me right out of it - why include that in a history episode? or any episode where you don't break the fourth wall?
- Can we have an episode where the team don't split up, near constantly
- Ok Im loving this episode purely because of Alan Cumming and his awful accent.
- Loving the dr questioning the gran
- "why does the lassie speak of commerce"
- Isn't it odd this splitting of the team? Taking away all the companions and leaving the dr on her own. To have her arrested and would Graeme have noticed the holly thing? This is the problem I have with splitting the team up, too often it's done as a way of allowing the story to move forward rather than feel natural. Making all the companions run off when it is literally the mud around them attacking. Seems unlikely for the dr to let that happen.
- This story takes on a new angle when you think about the fact that 10 married James's aunt/the woman who raised him. She's his uncle.
- The Dr namedrops worse than me. Who has she not met? Will any of them not her out of trivial plot contrivances?
- The tree, you dumb idiot. The door is the tree. This alien race was great, creepy, quite terrifying, and sinister... then they decided to let it talk.
- "The smoke is toxic to Morax" oh really Doctor...
- Here's Willa's redemption...

I enjoyed that. It had genuine menace in it. The script also felt better, tighter. I didn't realise until the end, which is the way it should be.

Ok, so there were plot contrivances, judging by the way everyone acted, it should have been touch and go whether the gran survived, so they should have at least tried. Alan Cumming is very Scottish but that accent, I get it, but jeez, did it come across as weird. Some terrible jokes... which I loved. The fact that the doctor knows a person to help her get out of every problem she's in, is a little tiresome. The aliens lost a lot of their frightening appeal when Becca converted, they went from being genuinely terrifying to generic monster (then the tentacle came and they were terrifying again). Morax is also a terrible name.

I guess I have 3 main problems,
1. you can't have it both ways. If you don't want her being this all-knowing entity then don't make her that way, BUT if you want her not to be, making her convieniently know someone who taught her how to get out of every scrape, or someone who has her mobile etc. then it undermines the whole thing. I think Bella said that last week? That scene would have been a lot better, miles so, if the companions had saved her. It could have echoed that first(ish) scene. It was a real missed opportunity to have the dr rely on someone else for a change and allow her not to be this all knowing person.
2. There are times when less is more, and times it really isn't. This series has had problems with that concept. The aliens didn't need to speak or have a figure head. The scene by the ducking tree was all kinds of expositionary and whilst it was somewhat needed, it could have been done better. Having Alan Cumming chew scenery is a time when more is really more.
3. The splitting into groups. At this point, I want an episode where they are all joined together. It's used as a crutch and a plot device, and more frequently than not it's out of character for the dr to allow companions to go off on there own. Even if it does mean that Yaz gets more character definition. (as she seems to be the only one who gets any)

But I loved a lot of this. Alan Cumming was amazing, the doctor meeting the mud monster and questioning it made me like Jodie's doctor which hasn't happened much yet, there was a nice scene nearer the end between the Dr and James, which allowed Alan to stop chewing the scenery for a second and allowed the audience a breath, it brought more nuance to both their performances, the humour was good, corny but good, I thought the dialogue was a marked improvement, Ryan talking to James about their homelives was also a good scene - I think this episode was this actors best. The aliens were good though, I always like some scary with my who. I can forgive a lot if it makes me feel excited watching it. The setting and the atmosphere was once again really excellent, I felt like I was watching a cut scene from the Witcher(which I know isn't real) at one point. If I'm going to compliment the series as a whole, when they go out on location they do a really good fucking job, I thought the same on the Indian episode and thinking back it wasn't bad in the first episode either.

I'm surprised that I loved a lot of it, especially after last week. Im surprised I enjoyed a historical episode (actually they have been the best all series). Im overjoyed that they finally made it an alien threat, thank fuck for that. That's what I wanted. This episode is what I wanted. I don't always need them quite as scary (but for me I'd be fine with that) but hell, what a decent episode. 8.5/10
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Post Post #3260  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:35 pm

I actually like it a lot as well.

King James popping out of nowhere without much explanation was weird. A king should surely have an armed guard and not be taken hostage so easily. Alan Cummings played the part so strangely that I was sure he was the secret bad guy for most of the episode.

I loved the twist of the Morax. Some no-name army of monsters who start threatening the Doctor and friends is just fantastically silly. It came so late in the episode that I almost thought (hoped?) it was going to be a two-prater. But no, the doctor wrapped it up. I like the Doctor matching wits against some evil anger-filled villain.

A lot of the same problems are still there. Clumsy and Old were pretty useless. We learned way too much about the motivations of a character we weren't going to see again (King James) simply because he's the guest. And there's a over-moralizing "misogyny is bad". And some stuff that doesn't quite make sense on reflection. (Mud on Yaz's pants is nothing but mudball is alive and gets eaten?) And maybe yeah, "Morax" is a bit too close to "Lorax" who speaks for the trees like the one cut down. Also, I thought the sonic screwdriver didn't work on wood, but I guess that rule isn't cannon anymore?

but is was a entertaining mystery with a left-field twist. And I was entertained.
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Post Post #3261  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:37 am

i've been saying this a lot but its true and bears repeating

this series is so much better when chibnall isn't writing the episodes
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Post Post #3262  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:21 am

It certainly seems that way. I'm hoping the finale will be good though and that maybe he can learn from his mistakes this season to be a better writer for the next one.

Chibnall's main strength as a writer is his characters. But when every other writer for this season seems to also be capable of making great characters he just seems like a weak writer in comparison.
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Post Post #3263  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:38 pm

If the rumours are true the next one will be his last.
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Post Post #3264  (ISO)  » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:32 am

I thought he had a 5-year plan for the show? I'd be surprised if he jumped off after only 2 years.
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Post Post #3265  (ISO)  » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:04 pm

I really enjoyed that. That's two in a row.

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Post Post #3266  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:24 am

were they implying king james was gay?
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Post Post #3267  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:48 am

In post 3266, N wrote:were they implying king james was gay?

Yes. Although it's debated, there's evidence to suggest that he was.
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Post Post #3268  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:30 pm

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT...
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Post Post #3269  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:25 pm

In post 3264, mutantdevle wrote:I thought he had a 5-year plan for the show? I'd be surprised if he jumped off after only 2 years.


Behind the scenes drama, apparently the rumours are if he goes then Jodie goes to.

So according to the uk skype, I have to like this. I've been out for dinner after a long day at work. I might watch it now, but the prognosis of whether I like it or not is already on shaky ground.
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Post Post #3270  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:33 pm

That episode was the first time I laughed out loud at a scene that I think were supposed to be serious.
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Post Post #3271  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:36 pm

After great location shooting, that seems suspicously green screen-esque
"Wooly rebellion" I hope its a joke otherwise it's one doctorism too far. 10 seconds in.
The doctors schtick so far this episode is already grating. A minute in.
The actor playing Ryan. Once again proving that if you walk past the right persons office you can be on a BBC show.
Scripting is back to be being stunted and generally crap.
Oh just realised it's a Ryan/Hannah comparison episode. Feel dumb for not getting that almost immediately. Probably has something to do with the lack of character development.
This actress is crap.
Writing a message sounds like a map being drawn...
At least this actress makes Ryan look better.
The doctor being a moron must be a plot point, because holy fuck, not noticing the clearly evil guy cut the string is mind-numbingly stupid.
I did however like the twist of the girl faking the monster.
yeah. of course he fucking has two knives.
Taught string...
So this is mirror of erised shit then?
I hoped the girl was evil turns out shes just boring... or maybe not.
That was a horrible but of exposition, but sorely needed and actually made me vaguely interested in this episode.
Well... that's different. Why have an alien threat when you can have a crappy animatronic frog threat...
Wait... who the fuck was Ribbons?
Now they like each other but they really didnt earn that moment.
Neither was that moment, but Ill take it. Grandad. Purely sold on Bradley Walsh's acting.

---

So it wasn't the worst. I didn't overly get it. Some nice ideas in there that I don't think worked exceptionally well together. This felt like it could have been 3 or 4 separate episodes, one with each concept.

Numerous things wrong though. The Norwegian actress was beyond crap. I usually try and downplay my dislike and thoughts of people's skills, but man, she failed to do anything with that part. Who the fuck was Ribbons, I quite liked that he was creepy, but what the hell were his motivations? I have a frustration that 4 out of 5 times, the same old trope gets recycled and then that 1 time something unexpected happens, but it doesn't go anywhere. The pacing was fucking awful. The first half hour dragged really badly, then when they kicked it up a gear to get back, I got a kick out of the episode, but 5 minutes in a 50 minute episode... it's not good enough. Did Jodie just do a 180 with her frog friend as well? The doctor took extra moron pills today along with a side of smarmy know-it-all-ness and irrelevant shitty stories about sheep rebelionism - can live without that piece of whatever that was. Then there was the usual issues that I've harped on about before.

The "bad guy" if you can call it that, was amazing though. I assume the budget ran out, (hence the green screen of the fjord as well) and that's why they brought in the frog equivalent of Salem the cat. It's the kind of shitty animatronic I watch Who for. That alone makes me happier beyond anything.

Episode get's 4/10. Frog gets 10/10.

Oh and the music once again, superb.
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Post Post #3272  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:40 pm

Now don't call me racist here, but don't all the alien races in this series look the same?
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Post Post #3273  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:46 pm

That was pure brilliance.

Also, a lot of things you've been saying you wanted, poro. I think the last episode I found myself on the literal edge of my seat for was heaven sent, but this got me hooked. I found that, for once this series, I didn't know what was happening. I finally got challenged, and it was great.

What does worry me slightly is that the last three episodes have been fantastic. And all written by someone other than Chibnal.

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Post Post #3274  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:49 pm

Just read a review, and missed the meaning behind the doctor/frog scene. Thinking about the context behind that, it adds a layer to the story that actually improves it on retrospect. I think I may have to watch that 3rd act again. I'd probably give it a 5 or a 6 now. The other issues, especially Hanne and the first 30 minutes are poor though. The same review talked about completely ommiting the anti-zone and I think the review is correct in that they could have excised that completely, and made it a better, more emotional vehicle, particularly for Graeme.

Holy crap Bella, that beaver is annoying.
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