"Happy holidays" is bullshit Christian normativity.

[Thestatusquo]

I am religiously atheist and culturally jewish. I don't believe in god above, and I certainly don't believe in your little baby jesus. Furthermore, as someone who vividly remembers getting the crap kicked out of him in middle school for being the only jewish kid in the class, I can personally tell anyone who wants to say "it's just being nice! there's nothing wrong with it! it's just PC bullshit." that otherization and the attempted normalization of one religious ideology has real world consequences for real people. It's not just you being nice, it's you actively participating in a system of control that is hurtful and offensive.

When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."

This is true for two reasons. First, when you wish me happy holidays, you are only demonstrating your ignorance of the fact that the "Holiday" I am supposed to be celebrating ended roughly 2 weeks ago. If someone were to wish you happy holidays on January 9th you would look at them a little funny and wonder what they were talking about. I don't have to do that, because I know what you're actually talking about. You're talking about Christmas. Stop with the patronizing, faux-inclusive bullshit.

The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.

From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.

Seriously. Just stop it.

[xRECKONERx]

Merry Christmas, Shea.

[Thestatusquo]

They see him trollin' they hatin'

Happy festivus, reck.

[Thestatusquo]

Seriously, though.

Happy holidays is bullshit.

[Umbrage]

"happy holidays"

"fuck you"

yeah I can see TSQ doing this about ten times a day

[Gammagooey]

please don't care about these things

there is no benefit to caring about these things for anyone

[Thestatusquo]

It's really funny! Look at that minority! Isn't he so cute with his anger! Next time someone a person of color tells you about how they are marginalized in society I hope you point and laugh at them and say ""Hey, you need to prove your income to buy this belt." "Fuck you!" yeah I can see you doing this about ten times a day.""

Or better yet, tell them they shouldn't care.

Atheists are literally the "least trusted group in America." I've not gotten promotions before because I didn't believe in god. As I said I used to get the crap beat out of me for my cultural judaism.

You're really going to tell me this stuff doesn't matter? Why do you think its still culturally acceptable?

No, seriously. Stop being a fuck hole for one second.

[Gammagooey]

also an atheist

the vast vast majority of people who say happy holidays are proooobably just are trying to be polite and/or nice and unless they become a cunt about it if you say something like 'i dont celebrate christmas actually' then they have no ill intent and it's not worth caring about silly minutia of phrasings and greetings.

alternatively,
=3

[Tamuz]

r/athiesm

[Thestatusquo]

also an atheist

the vast vast majority of people who say happy holidays are proooobably just are trying to be polite and/or nice and unless they become a cunt about it if you say something like 'i dont celebrate christmas actually' then they have no ill intent and it's not worth caring about silly minutia of phrasings and greetings.

alternatively,
=3

Ignorance is not an excuse for furthering oppressive social structures. (and while we're on the subject, did you really just use the word "cunt" in a discussion of oppressive language???? Homie... Come on.) If anything, that ignorance is even more reason why discussions like this need to be had.

If you meet people in the street who say this to you, you don't have to be mean about telling them what they did was offensive. But I can and do tell them that it was.

[animorpherv1]

If someone said "Happy [insert wrong holiday here]" to me, I'd still say thank you - it's the thought that counts, not the words...

[Junpei]

You sound like the kind of person who is atheist to be a special snowflake and because you LIKE to complain.

You say that Christians are too ignorant about the true birth of the world, and therefore they should not say "happy holidays" because it has connotations with many holidays which occur in december, and the ones which come to your mind most are religious holidays.

However you, as an atheist, don't know anything about the world either. You aren't very knowledgeable about philosophy of the mind, of logic, or religion. So don't try and bullshit like you have solved the universe. You are very ignorant too and because of this, it is offensive for you to be offended by someone saying happy holidays.

Inb4 "blah blah im atheist blah"

[Thestatusquo]

Junpei is an idiot as always. Everyone move along. Nothing to see here.

Ani, I get that sentiment. The problem is that people can do damaging things even when they're trying to be nice. Making it a cultural imperative to say happy holidays around christmas time normalizes Christianity as a dominant social group, and that is a pretty bad thing. It leads directly to what things like what happened to me frequently when I was a kid. That shit still happens. It's not like antisemitism some how went away. Its still here and well, and reenforcing the Other of Judaism through practices like this directly cause that shit to be normalized. You become not just a Jew, but someone who is different, and if history has shown us anything its that those who are different always become targets. So, no, I don't think its the thought that counts. I think the thought is excusable, but that the person still needs to not contribute to systems of oppression.

[Junpei]

I am religiously atheist and culturally jewish. I don't believe in god above, and I certainly don't believe in your little baby jesus. Furthermore, as someone who vividly remembers getting the crap kicked out of him in middle school for being the only jewish kid in the class, I can personally tell anyone who wants to say "it's just being nice! there's nothing wrong with it! it's just PC bullshit." that otherization and the attempted normalization of one religious ideology has real world consequences for real people. It's not just you being nice, it's you actively participating in a system of control that is hurtful and offensive.

A system of control? A system of control? No you idiot it's called the culture in the united states. The country is highly christian, and driven by it's free market economy. Christmas = money; most people agree with SOME religious holiday in december. It's not people pushing an agenda or some intrusive mind control. It's just that people express their happiness about a certain time of year. It's grown beyond that though, I agree. It's now not about the religious aspect. When people say "happy holidays" it now means "I hope you are happy and that your life is going well". Much like how Fag used to mean happy/

When you say happy holidays, what you are actually saying is "I think everyone should be celebrating Christmas right now, and I will make you celebrate it with me with a thinly veiled code word for Christmas."

NO, lol you're a fool. You THINK christmas because YOU are trying to be offended by something. Nothing about happy holidays has to mean christmas, YOU make it that. Society has (as stated above) made it transcendent of christmas or any other religious holiday, so you should stop whining.

The other reason it is true is because Hanukkah is not an important holiday. Like, at all. It is minor as all hell. In terms of important holidays Hanukkah is about as important as boxing day is. To Americans. It just happens to be almost exclusively the only Jewish holiday that Christians know about. It's almost as if this is because they trot it out to act like their Christmas celebrations are somehow secular. They sing 6 Christmas carols and 1 Hanukkah song at the kids "Holiday concert" and they go home in their nice little subaru foresters marveling at how cosmopolitan they all are.

Every jewish person I've met celebrates hanukkah as a significant event. Lol at you trying to push an anti-christian agenda so hard, this isnt about anything other than you hating on religion because you are athiest (likely the reason you are atheist is because you hate religion.... a hilarious circle)

From now on I am going to start wishing Christians "happy holidays" around Yom Kippur and then when they look at me funny explain to them that we're celebrating our important holidays together, so I was wishing them a wonderful St. Andrew's day. Thirty days in advance.

Seriously. Just stop it.

do it, no one would be bitter about it, serious.

[zoraster]

lamest rant yet.

[Tamuz]

it is offensive for you to be offended

oh.

[Tamuz]

Much like how Fag used to mean happy/

oh.

[Matias]

lamest rant yet.

I, personally, don't understand the anger.

Did somebody say happy holidays to you on the boards, Shea, or is there no point to this? I pretty much agree that I don't find any ill will from people saying "Happy Holidays" (edit: nor any unintended hurt or oppression), and as an atheist myself with a christian background, I personally wouldn't give a shit if someone told me Happy Kwanzaa.

[Junpei]

it is offensive for you to be offended

oh.

OP is pushing his anti-christian agenda and reaching to say that happy holidays is actually a christian agenda to convert us all into christians.

lol what does he suggest, that we stop saying happy holidays to please the few people who view it as an issue?

In the real world (read: not TSQ's brainless head) people dont think that happy holidays = christmas unless they are christian. They think of it as more of a kind greeting. Unless of course you are an angry atheist who wants to find some loophole to attack religion.

[quadz08]

happy belated hannukah shea

that said, would you like everyone to learn all of the cultural traditions and holidays of every religious / non-religious / ethnic / social group that they could conceivably interact with? And even if you

do

, would you like everyone to instantly know which group(s) every other person fits in to?

I basically agree with Zach Weinersmith on this one: "If someone gives you any holiday greeting that isn't "Heil Hitler!" you just repeat it back to them."

[DeathRowKitty]

OP is [...] reaching to say that happy holidays is actually a christian agenda to convert us all into christians.

oh.

[Tamuz]

1. You, Mathias, missed Shea's point.

Did somebody say happy holidays to you on the boards, Shea, or is there no point to this?

2. This is unfair. Shea is venting in an appropriate avenue, it's rather trite to try to delegitimize it because "nobody said it on MS" or because you don't share his feelings. This should be a better conversation here than Shea standing on a table at a coffee joint putting forth this idea.

and as an white peson myself with a european background, I personally wouldn't give a shit if someone called me a cracker.

3. FTFY

[Matias]

1. You, Mathias, missed Shea's point.

Did somebody say happy holidays to you on the boards, Shea, or is there no point to this?

2. This is unfair. Shea is venting in an appropriate avenue, it's rather trite to try to delegitimize it because "nobody said it on MS" or because you don't share his feelings. This should be a better conversation here than Shea standing on a table at a coffee joint putting forth this idea.

Well, it sounds like he's directing it towards everyone here instead of creating a discussion (like, there's no reason to be angry at us, especially when people are doing just that; creating conversation)

Also, I didn't really miss his point, I'm rather asking him why he just doesn't care. Almost everyone here agrees that he's making a mountain out of a molehill.

[quadz08]

I for one would enjoy standing on a table in a coffee shop with Shea

[Tamuz]

Same, quadz. But I can't imagine the rest of the shop would enjoy it.

Also, I didn't really miss his point, I'm rather asking him why he just doesn't care. Almost everyone here agrees that he's making a mountain out of a molehill.

Yep, you missed his point. He explained why he cares.