A Lack of Common Courtesy: A mini-essay on social norms

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A Lack of Common Courtesy: A mini-essay on social norms

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:13 pm

Post by Thesp »

A Lack of Common Courtesy: A Mini-Essay On Social Norms


I've noticed, lately, that people seem to have been more disrespectful of others. I don't know if this is deliberate or unintentional, but I do know it hasn't popped up overnight, and it's really started to bother me. Now, some may think, "well whoopidy doo, I don't care", and that's sort of sad, because this article is probably meant for you. Rest assured, I know I'm not the only one that's had many of the thoughts I'm going to share with you today, so pull up a chair, and listen to what Uncle Thespy has to say, if you're so inclined, and if you care.

1. Being a troll is not a worthwhile endeavor.


Regardless of what some people may think, being a troll is neither productive nor interesting. I've seen more than one member who used to be interesting and witty, who have degenerated by now into being a troll, saying things only for the purpose of antagonizing others. It's not cute, nor funny, nor does anyone think more highly of you for trolling. Get over yourself. Please.


2. Cursing frequently in a public forum is disrespectful to the sensibilities of the larger community.


Let me also pre-empt the semantics debate (which seeks to say, "But language means nothing, it's just words!") by saying, words are significant, and anyone who wishes to assert the contrary ought to commuicate only by saying "da" from now on. Furthermore, curse words are so designed and acknowledged by society in general as being offensive and disrespectful. (Thus is the distinction between the words "poop" and "sh*t". To assert that the words are identical is self-derision and not acknowledging how communication and language works.) I can understand the occasional curse word, yet I have seen a strong uptick in swearing and offensive language lately that bothers me. (They
especially bother me in signatures
- as I have to see them everywhere!) I don't perceive this as a good thing, and personally feel it's a sign of an increase of general lack of respect for many members of the community. (I've also noticed that younger members who use such "adult language" often use it to show off how grown up they are, when it tends to reinforce the
opposite
maturity level in my mind.) Offensive speech is also not limited just to curse words, please note.


3. Personal attacks just aren't cool.


I've also seen a lot more personal attacks lately. You may think you're cool for putting someone else down, and heck, others may think you're cool for picking on someone. It's juvenile. Get over yourself.


4. Please be mindful that there are a lot of people who read these forums. Show some class.


Now, some people say they don't care what other people think. (If this was truly the case, they woudn't bother telling us that they don't care what we think.) However, if you are one of those people who really thinks they enjoy antagonizing people for the sake of antagonism, perhaps you need to step back and do some serious self-reflection. If you're directing your comment to one person, perhaps it's better saved for a PM. If you're using language that's customary for you and your friend that's not socially tolerable to the larger community, perhaps you ought to consider making such conversation in a private arena.


I know you can't make everyone happy all the time, and I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for you to be tolerable. Fortunately, most of you are! That's great! There are a select few whom I hope hear this message, and stop and think about who they are. If you really don't care how I think (or are opposed to my views expressed here), I'll live. At the same time, please acknowledge that there are many others who feel very similarly to how I feel, and there is a greater community which may be harmed by consistent disrespect for others. Some people have suggested implementing some sort of code of conduct, which is not what I'm suggesting at all. However, that desire to implement such a code is borne out of a frustration from seeing a beloved community overrun by mindless, offensive content, and I understand where that sentiment comes from. What I hope for is that we all take a step back, look at how what we do is impactful on people we may not even realize we care about, and move on from there.

If you don't care about me or the many others who share this viewpoint, you don't have to tell me that. I'll already be able to tell.

Thanks for your time.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:21 pm

Post by Foolster41 »

This is something I've been thinking about myself recently. I agree.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:30 pm

Post by Adel »

I feel chastised. Thanks for taking the time to write that for us.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:31 pm

Post by Stewie »

Can we sticky this?
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:41 pm

Post by VitaminR »

I agree entirely.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:46 pm

Post by Aegor »

Yes, as a new user I agree and thank you.

I read the forum before I signed up, and really enjoyed reading some of the games. But it seemed that in the other sections, most notably this one, there were many examples of the problems that you identified. I hope that everyone follows this advice.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:27 pm

Post by AniX »

I agree with everything you have said except for Point #2, which I believe we have discussed before and I don't think it would be appropriate to sully this thread with a debate over it. Perhaps another thread at a later date.

I will just say that, in regard to your second point, I see why you are coming from, I just, for the most part, whole-heartily disagree with it.

Other than that, I think everyone would do to read what you have said and take it to heart or brain or whatever body part they wish to assign the duties of controlling their stupidity.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:30 pm

Post by NabakovNabakov »

If you gentlemen would like to take this discussion to "THE Debate Thread" we would be happy to have you.

[/shameless self-promotion]

Good stuff, Thesp. I
was
tempted to make a post entirely out of "da"s, but I felt that would be against the sprit of things.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:33 pm

Post by Quagmire »

i wonder who this is aimed at
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:53 pm

Post by Primate »

Disagree with all cept #1. It can be funny if done well. Just 90% of the time it's done so badly it's painful.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:14 pm

Post by Oman »

No Trolling just to cause pain or antagonism is just stupid.

Great work on this!
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:18 pm

Post by Guardian »

I combat this in games with lynching people who ad hom too much.

Townies have no reason to cause people to get frustrated and emotional -- scum love it. So, ad hom attacks and trolling quite literally are scummy.

FOS: All Trolls
.
Do not lynch me.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:19 pm

Post by Foolster41 »

Quag: The point is to not point figures, but to discuss this in more general terms
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:24 pm

Post by Primate »

Guardian wrote:I combat this in games with lynching people who ad hom too much.

Townies have no reason to cause people to get frustrated and emotional -- scum love it. So, ad hom attacks and trolling quite literally are scummy.

FOS: All Trolls
.
*sigh*

I kind of figured you'd know better. The grand majority of this post is wrong in multiple ways.

EDIT: R.I.P BJ
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:45 pm

Post by Cubsfan4ever »

Hey moron, a PM would have been preferable. That way I could have just deleted it right away.
Unban me please

At the very least, at least respond to my unanswered PMs mith.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:55 pm

Post by Nightson »

Cubsfan4ever wrote:Hey moron, a PM would have been preferable. That way I could have just deleted it right away.
"...if you are one of those people who really thinks they enjoy antagonizing people for the sake of antagonism, perhaps you need to step back and do some serious self-reflection."
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:01 pm

Post by Cubsfan4ever »

um ok...

:self reflecting:

:done:

wozers omg im cured thx thesp (whoever you are), you sure changed my life!
Unban me please

At the very least, at least respond to my unanswered PMs mith.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:16 pm

Post by Oman »

Cubsfan4ever wrote:um ok...

:self reflecting:

:done:

wozers omg im cured thx thesp (whoever you are), you sure changed my life!
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:16 pm

Post by inHimshallibe »

Cubsfan4ever wrote:Hey moron, a PM would have been preferable. That way I could have just deleted it right away.
I'm sorry, but minus the "Hey moron," this was funny. (cubs' next post, however, severely lacked, a la Primate's 90%)

It just makes sense that personal attacks should be avoided, as well as trolling for the sake of trolling. These things don't contribute anything but an often flagrant display of maturity level, and often disrespect. A snide comment often brings a point heavier than a mundane one, but I think it
is
in the best interest of the community if these snide comments were used sparingly.

Props to Thesp.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:52 pm

Post by Foolster41 »

...And right after I say that cubsfan has to go and raise his hand "Ooh ooh he's talking about me."

EDIT: Oops wrong name.
Last edited by Foolster41 on Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:26 am

Post by Simenon »

Primate wrote:sigh*

I kind of figured you'd know better. The grand majority of this post is wrong in multiple ways.

EDIT: R.I.P BJ
I was going to say "omg I agrey" but then I realized it was you who orginally told me that. So nevermind. :|
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:44 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

Thesp's essay describes the sort of Forum that I and the vast majority of people on this site would like mafiascum to be. If you don't want to be involved in a site like this and/or you aren't willing to behave this way, then why don't you go somewhere else? The Internet is a huge universe and I'm sure that the site for you is out there somewhere.

Seriously, why don't you go somewhere else?
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:46 am

Post by ibaesha »

I almost agree with you, Stoof, but...

I'd rather see folks work on their behavior and become assets to the community than see them leave. I suppose if they can't though... maybe you are right.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:47 am

Post by Simenon »

ibaesha wrote:I almost agree with you, Stoof, but...

I'd rather see folks work on their behavior and become assets to the community than see them leave. I suppose if they can't though... maybe you are right.
How do you propose we go about this rehabilitation?
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:49 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

I did say "if ... you aren't willing to behave in this way...". Anyone who thinks these norms are stupid but is willing to abide by them is welcome, as far as I am concerned.
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