Do you believe in evolution?

This forum is for discussion about anything else.

Do you believe in Evolution?

Yes, it is how we got to where we are now
125
79%
No, there is no chance of evolution
11
7%
In theory yes, but we didn't come from primates
17
11%
Unsure
6
4%
 
Total votes : 159

ShadowLurker
9 years old
 
User avatar
Joined: August 08, 2006
Location: hot cause he's fly
Pronoun: She

Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:59 pm

I've heard the global warming poll results caused quite a fair bit of shock concerning the amount of people that do/don't and knowing that over half of all American's don't believe in evolution and it isn't taught in Kansas, I want to see what % of MSers believe in evolution.
:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan

Simenon
Entitled
 
User avatar
Joined: October 11, 2006
Location: Chicago
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:03 pm

Am I allowed to answer this question seriously?
SEND THE VECTOIDS

Yosarian2
(shrug)
 
User avatar
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey
Pronoun: He

Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:07 pm

Simenon wrote:Am I allowed to answer this question seriously?


This is GD. Only serious discussion is allowed here. :seriousface:
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie

Streeflo
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: March 31, 2007
Pronoun: He

Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:16 pm

Evolution: Serious Business.

(Kansas doesn't teach this?)
LA on Fridays and Saturdays, every week.

Fritzler
More /in than you!
 
User avatar
Joined: July 26, 2005

Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:34 pm

No its not on the curriculum. I had a couple of science professors talk about it anyways in 7th grade with his own time, but that was about it. My 9th grade teacher in biology never mentioned it, and after that I took 2 physics and 2 chemistry classes, and never really had an option to talk about it. I do know that a couple teachers talked about it anyways in class (mostly the AP/Honors teachers), and some didn't (mostly for the stupid people). Do people really teach evolution like, to every kid in other states?
Surfs up dude.

ShadowLurker
9 years old
 
User avatar
Joined: August 08, 2006
Location: hot cause he's fly
Pronoun: She

Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:39 pm

Fritzler wrote:No its not on the curriculum. I had a couple of science professors talk about it anyways in 7th grade with his own time, but that was about it. My 9th grade teacher in biology never mentioned it, and after that I took 2 physics and 2 chemistry classes, and never really had an option to talk about it. I do know that a couple teachers talked about it anyways in class (mostly the AP/Honors teachers), and some didn't (mostly for the stupid people). Do people really teach evolution like, to every kid in other states?


Yes.

The only state I'm not sure about is Texas as they have their own textbook for everything and I dunno about the contents of their biology curriculum.
:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan

Yosarian2
(shrug)
 
User avatar
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey
Pronoun: He

Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:43 pm

Fritzler wrote:No its not on the curriculum. I had a couple of science professors talk about it anyways in 7th grade with his own time, but that was about it. My 9th grade teacher in biology never mentioned it, and after that I took 2 physics and 2 chemistry classes, and never really had an option to talk about it. I do know that a couple teachers talked about it anyways in class (mostly the AP/Honors teachers), and some didn't (mostly for the stupid people). Do people really teach evolution like, to every kid in other states?


Yeah, it's definatly supposed to be covered in some detail bio class, which every kid in NJ takes. I'm sure a few teachers kind of skirt the topic, but they're supposed to teach it at least.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie

vollkan
The Interrogator
 
User avatar
Joined: March 29, 2007
Location: Australia
Pronoun: He

Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:05 pm

I object to the question itself. "Believe"?

This isn't the sort of thing that requires "belief" in the sense of "Do you believe in god/pixies/unicorns/etc.?"

There is plenty of evidence to support evolution (ie. haemoglobin splits, viral development, ring species, and so on) so I really don't think it is a matter of "belief" so much as it is a matter of being persuaded by the existing evidence. I might as well say "I believe I am sitting on my chair at my computer."

ShadowLurker
9 years old
 
User avatar
Joined: August 08, 2006
Location: hot cause he's fly
Pronoun: She

Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:08 pm

vollkan wrote:I object to the question itself. "Believe"?

This isn't the sort of thing that requires "belief" in the sense of "Do you believe in god/pixies/unicorns/etc.?"

There is plenty of evidence to support evolution (ie. haemoglobin splits, viral development, ring species, and so on) so I really don't think it is a matter of "belief" so much as it is a matter of being persuaded by the existing evidence. I might as well say "I believe I am sitting on my chair at my computer."


AND THAT WOULD BE PROPER EVEN THOUGH IT IS OVERLY POLITE
:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan

IH
Always Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: August 07, 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Pronoun: He

Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:18 pm

eh I personally think that the evidence is too inconclusive to prove evolution thoroughly and scientifically myself. Viral development and such can form to make a larger organism, but.....

Where did the original spark of life come from?

Are these organisms ever mutating, or just repeating itself?

Etc etc. Not to mention, there are some arguments about the 'fossil layer' which I don't agree with.
Untrod Tripod (7:27:18 PM): you enjoy whoring
xcaykex (7:27:24 PM): yes
xcaykex (7:27:26 PM): i know that

JDodge
Accept it
 
User avatar
Joined: May 06, 2005
Location: Atop my cloud
Pronoun: He

Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:41 pm

vollkan wrote:I object to the question itself. "Believe"?

This isn't the sort of thing that requires "belief" in the sense of "Do you believe in god/pixies/unicorns/etc.?"

There is plenty of evidence to support evolution (ie. haemoglobin splits, viral development, ring species, and so on) so I really don't think it is a matter of "belief" so much as it is a matter of being persuaded by the existing evidence. I might as well say "I believe I am sitting on my chair at my computer."


THAT IS A GREAT ARGUMENT AGAINST EVOLUTION

THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH EVOLUTION IS BAD GRAMMAR

Thestatusquo
Shea
 
User avatar
Joined: July 28, 2006
Location: Chicago!

Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:08 am

DO YOU MEAN POOR GRAMMAR, PERHAPS?
SleepyKrew: The dankest memer east or west of the Mississippi
only 5 slots left in Bad Idea Mafia!
SleepyKrew: The dankest memer east or west of the Mississippi

Maz Medias
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: December 19, 2005
Pronoun: He

Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:14 am

I don't know, do you fucking believe in sea turtles?

Stewie
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: July 16, 2003
Location: Canada
Pronoun: He

Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:17 am

In theory yes, but we didn't come from primates


The theory of evolution does not say we came from primates, merely that we have a common ancestor.

I find it hard to not believe in evolution if you are actually educated on the subject on the molecular level. Given that there are random mutations, I find it hard to imagine a situation in which evolution didn't happen.

Where did the original spark of life come from?


Just because there isn't an answer yet, it doesn't mean there isn't one. It's not relevant anyways, the theory of evolution does not explain how life was created, but rather how from one common ancestor we changed to get all the species of the world.

Are these organisms ever mutating, or just repeating itself?

Which organisms? The answer is most likely "they are mutating" but I'm just wondering which organisms you are talking about.

eh I personally think that the evidence is too inconclusive to prove evolution thoroughly and scientifically myself. Viral development and such can form to make a larger organism, but.....

The mere fact that it is called a theory means that there's a vast amount of conclusive evidence.

I can see that you may not be convinced by the arguments for evolution, but did you study the science behind it?

A good example of evolution is antibiotic-resistant bacteria strains. Without evolution, once we found an antibiotic, it should be good forever. However, somehow bacteria develop resistance to them.

HackerHuck
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: July 27, 2006
Location: On the outskirts of Vancouver

Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:37 am

Why is option three even on there? Humans are primates.

Fritzler
More /in than you!
 
User avatar
Joined: July 26, 2005

Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:59 am

Maz Medias wrote:I don't know, do you fucking believe in sea turtles?
i believe in fucking sea turtles

Image
Surfs up dude.

vollkan
The Interrogator
 
User avatar
Joined: March 29, 2007
Location: Australia
Pronoun: He

Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:16 am

IH wrote:eh I personally think that the evidence is too inconclusive to prove evolution thoroughly and scientifically myself.


Well, it depends on what you mean by "prove". It is not the sort of thing you can sit down in a lab and do, except for with things like bacteria which have a very short (by our standard) generation gap.

Evidence in the sense of our knowledge of when certain phenotypes branched off, etc. is amply available to effectively prove it.

IH wrote:Where did the original spark of life come from?


Not entirely relevant but the two theories I most like are the organic primordial soup model or the inorganic model of Graham Cairns-Smith (look it up if you are interested).

IH wrote:Are these organisms ever mutating, or just repeating itself?


I don't quite know exactly what you mean here, but I will answer what I think you are referring to.

Evolutionary mutations occur when the DNA is miscopied across generations. As in a small mutation in the DNA of Parent X may lead to Child Y having some tiny advantage which gives it a higher possibility of surviving to breed and pass that mutation on.

IH wrote:Etc etc. Not to mention, there are some arguments about the 'fossil layer' which I don't agree with.


The so-called Cambrian Explosion is probably the most popular example of this rather weak attempt to question evolution. The 'fossil record' arguments rest on the assumption that all species leave fossils which are as resilient as other species.

I mean, it may be the case that prior to the Cambrian Explosion period many species were very soft and, therefore, did not leave many, if any, fossils.

Combine this with the possibility of natural disasters destroying fossils, etc and there really is no argument against evolution raised by the fossil record.

Stewie wrote:A good example of evolution is antibiotic-resistant bacteria strains. Without evolution, once we found an antibiotic, it should be good forever. However, somehow bacteria develop resistance to them.


Yeah. That's one of the easiest ways to explain it to people without having to overwhelm them with science.

Foolster41
Auther
 
User avatar
Joined: July 15, 2003
Location: "Wh-Who am I?"
Pronoun: He

Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:16 am

If you mean evolution as a system for adaption and change, then yes.
If you mean the big bang, or that one species can change ot a completely differnet species, then no. (That's what the third option is there for)
Winner of the "if real life was like mafia" thread. :D
**May be going on permanent Limited Access as soon as April 1st. :(**

vollkan
The Interrogator
 
User avatar
Joined: March 29, 2007
Location: Australia
Pronoun: He

Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:23 am

Foolster wrote:If you mean evolution as a system for adaption and change, then yes.
If you mean the big bang, or that one species can change ot a completely differnet species, then no.


Evolution is the process by which one species changes into another over many generations by small mutational changes. It is technically possible for one animal to give birth to a completely different species, but very unlikely and then there is the matter of the new species being unable to survive.

However, evolution does cause new species over long stretches of time due to many small mutations.

What don't you like about the big bang?

Thestatusquo
Shea
 
User avatar
Joined: July 28, 2006
Location: Chicago!

Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:24 am

Fritz, I should have known you'd believe in Bestiality.
SleepyKrew: The dankest memer east or west of the Mississippi
only 5 slots left in Bad Idea Mafia!
SleepyKrew: The dankest memer east or west of the Mississippi

IH
Always Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: August 07, 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Pronoun: He

Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:59 am

Stewie wrote:Just because there isn't an answer yet, it doesn't mean there isn't one. It's not relevant anyways, the theory of evolution does not explain how life was created, but rather how from one common ancestor we changed to get all the species of the world.



But if there's inconclusive proof, then it's a belief that it's right. The theory of evolution is usually used as an argument against things such as creationism as the origin of life. I feel that explaining the spark of life coming from somewhere is a very important part to the correctness of evolution.

Also I will remember the "just because there isn't an answer yet" in future arguments with you.

Stewie wrote:Which organisms? The answer is most likely "they are mutating" but I'm just wondering which organisms you are talking about.


Virus's, colonies of bacteria, etc etc.

Stewie wrote:The mere fact that it is called a theory means that there's a vast amount of conclusive evidence.

I can see that you may not be convinced by the arguments for evolution, but did you study the science behind it?



Err, no, anything can be called a theory. I think a quasar is actually masses of living organisms emitting radio waves. Thats a theory.

Stewie wrote:A good example of evolution is antibiotic-resistant bacteria strains. Without evolution, once we found an antibiotic, it should be good forever. However, somehow bacteria develop resistance to them.



Adaptation does not=evolution though I think. The organism may change slightly to adapt, but it's never mutating into an entirely different virus or such. Just a different strain, right?
Untrod Tripod (7:27:18 PM): you enjoy whoring
xcaykex (7:27:24 PM): yes
xcaykex (7:27:26 PM): i know that

vollkan
The Interrogator
 
User avatar
Joined: March 29, 2007
Location: Australia
Pronoun: He

Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:43 am

IH wrote:But if there's inconclusive proof, then it's a belief that it's right. The theory of evolution is usually used as an argument against things such as creationism as the origin of life. I feel that explaining the spark of life coming from somewhere is a very important part to the correctness of evolution.


Yes, and there are explanations for the origins.

The most common is the primordial soup theory. To put this very simply, in the rather more chaotic and different atmospheric conditions of early earth organic molecules (ie. carbon-containing) form amino acids, form proteins, form building blocks of life.

The Cairns-Smith inorganic theory is basically that certain clay crystals survive longer in the prescence of certain organic molecules. Over time, the clay crystals may evolve (ie. not be destroyed) so that large deposits form with particular replications of the organic molecules. Eventually, the clay scaffolding is no longer needed and organic life arises.

Of course, this is really simplified, but the point is that there is no "spark" of life. In both of these theories, "life" arises simply by chemicals developing over time.

IH wrote:Adaptation does not=evolution though I think. The organism may change slightly to adapt, but it's never mutating into an entirely different virus or such. Just a different strain, right?


Right, but that is the beauty of evolution.

We forget that evolutionary change occurs over VERY large numbers of generations. Hence, these slight adaptations build up over generations (for bacteria, this is very short, for us quite long) and new species form.

1 tiny change may not mean much, but 100 million small changes in many different gene areas is going to have a hell of an impact.

joost
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: August 12, 2007
Location: Holland
Pronoun: He

Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:13 am

The real question of course is: Do you believe in Revolution?

Image
You're a towel!

"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

Mr Stoofer
Less than scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 25, 2005
Location: London Alignment: Lawful Evil
Pronoun: He

Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:33 am

Is there any country in the world, other than the United States, where this is a topic of debate?

IH
Always Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: August 07, 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Pronoun: He

Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:08 pm

But there are still faults with the origin.

If chemicals produced it in the first place, why isn't it being reproduced today? Why can't we reproduce it?

I continue to feel like the generations is still something thats just going "BUT YOU CAN'T DISPROVE IT!"

Not only that, but alot of evidence points that the earth is not that old. Like the degeneration of the magnetic fields. Etc Etc.

Which brings me back to the main point of this thread, which is talking about teaching it in schools, right? The spin thats getting put on it is that Evolution is right, you're stupid, shut up, at least from my viewpoint, when Evolution is a highly inconclusive theory, and needs to be taught objectively if they insist on teaching it.

I don't believe it myself, but if they insist on teaching it, then thats how I believe things should go about.
Untrod Tripod (7:27:18 PM): you enjoy whoring
xcaykex (7:27:24 PM): yes
xcaykex (7:27:26 PM): i know that

Next
[ + ]

Return to General Discussion