Do you believe in evolution?

[Adele]

I believe in the fact of gravity. "Gravity exists" is not a scientific theory. Therefore "gravity exists" is not "the theory of gravity".

adele why do you have to be condescending? your arguments, though requiring a bit more explanation, aren't bad enough for you to have to get so defensive

I gave advice to this particular group of scummers earlier in this very thread on how better to troll (don't admit that you're doing it). They're following it. I'm flattered and am happy to play along. however, I have been perfectly clear on the distinction that I have drawn between the fact of gravity and the theory of gravity. There may be things I've said that have genuinely confused them - this ain't that. I'm being trolled and I'm having a blast, but I really do have to go soon.

[Adele]

i think adele is just saying that the specifics of any theory about gravity are in doubt but she believes in gravity overall; she just didn't get it across very well

is this right?

??? Is this like how some people believe in the Bible but don't believe in religion?

I've never understood that, the Bible is very clear on religion, just like gravity is very clear on it's theory.

If you believe in gravity, you have to believe in the theory of gravity, because of the Bible.

Heh. See, dizzycow?

No, it's like how people can believe that God exists without being, say, Roman Catholics.

[DizzyCow]

theninthlayer made a new thread here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6516

that will be a good place since this one is supposed to be about evolution

[Adele]

Yes, but unfortunately that thread presumes the very error they keep making to not be an error.

[TheNinthLayer]

Back on topic, evolution has no proof for it. This is the one thing I agree with Adele on.

-Ninth

[Adele]

There is evidence that supports the theory of evolution and relatively little that appears to undermine it.

[TheNinthLayer]

But you just chewed out Alasdair for believing in evolution.

So do you believe in evolution or don't you?

-Ninth

[Adele]

But you just chewed out Alasdair for believing in evolution.

So do you believe in evolution or don't you?

-Ninth

I chewed out Alasdair for failing to bring a tentative approach to science.

Yes, I believe in evolution. It seems extremely probable to me.

[DizzyCow]

I chewed out Alasdair for failing to bring a tentative approach to science.

However, you clearly don't understand what science

is

, since the word "tentative" is apparently not part of your vocabulary.

lol he doesnt even know what it is but hes the one that brought it? this isnt a game of mafia you shouldnt try to take other peoples arguments out of context

[Adele]

I chewed out Alasdair for

failing to bring

a tentative approach to science.

However, you clearly don't understand what science

is

, since the word "tentative" is apparently not part of your vocabulary.

lol he doesnt even know what it is but hes the one that brought it? this isnt a game of mafia you shouldnt try to take other peoples arguments out of context

He didn't bring it. That's the problem.

[Alasdair]

how do you explain the fact that a dog has never given birth to a cat

[xyzzy]

how do you explain the fact that a dog has never given birth to a cat

...the theory of evolution doesn't suggest that any such thing will occur.

It states that small mutations will occur, and that over many generations, species will completely change.

And a dog turning into a cat doesn't make any sense, even on a long-term scale. The required mutations wouldn't be beneficial to the dog-thing; perhaps a dog gaining wolf-like characteristics (and thus reverting back to the non-tame father) would be beneficial if, say, humans suddenly all died.

The theory of evolution is that microevolution will, after a long period of time, lead to macroevolution. Psuedoscience of dogs magically transforming into cats is stupid.

[waar]

lmao great thread here

[Alasdair]

so how do you explain that the second law of thermodynamics means evolution is impossible unless there's some huge energy source out there pumping energy into earth

[Xdaamno]

waar, that was mean.

Something like "Adele you remind me of myself when I was 13 and argued about really stupid things".

He edited it out afterwards?

[waar]

waar, that was mean.

Something like "Adele you remind me of myself when I was 13 and argued about really stupid things".

He edited it out afterwards?

lmao great post here

[Alasdair]

qft

(hahahahaha I'mnot even quoting anything)

[xyzzy]

so how do you explain that the second law of thermodynamics means evolution is impossible unless there's some huge energy source out there pumping energy into earth

...

What?

I'm sorry, you've lost me. You're saying... mutations which do occur in all species... and are testable... that theoretically lead to large-scale changes... are impossible because there's not enough energy?

Do you have any idea how reproduction works? (And no, I don't mean in

that

sense, I mean, how DNA is transferred...) Or how any early development works? Just because there's alterations occuring doesn't mean we'll run out of energy.

[Alasdair]

no mang, in a closed system such as earth the 2nd law of thermo says that things become more disordered (a tornado going through a junk yard won't make a 747), evolution is adding more order to the closed system and the only way that'd be possible is if there was a huge energy source pumping energy into earth which is clearly impossible and silly

[Sarcastro]

Earth is not a closed system, and you're completely misunderstanding the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Then again, you're probably doing so intentionally. It's hard to tell with you.

[vollkan]

Earth a closed system that needs a huge energy source? Hint: Look up at the big bright thing in the sky....

This argument just reflects your lack of understanding about both evolution and themodynamics.

With evolution we have minute changes over generations based on reproductivity of organisms. In no way does it violate any law of physics to say that a giraffe with a slightly longer neck (not at the expense of energy for muscle growth and maintenence though) will have a better chance of surviving than a giraffe with a slightly shorter neck. The genes for the long neck are more likely to be passed on. There is nothing strange about this whatsoever, and it certainly does not violate the laws of physics.

[Adele]

Earth is not a closed system, and you're completely misunderstanding the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Then again, you're probably doing so intentionally.

No, I'm afraid that entropy is considered by many creationists - especially those in the ID movement - to be the silver bullet for evolution.
_____

When you take a new pack of cards and shuffle it, it becomes more disordered (on average, obviously). Shuffle it again and it becomes still more disordered. Shuffle it a third time. Seriously, do. Then glance through the pack and see the lack of a pattern. Then deal out to yourself and two or three friends. Play "Cheat". Then, when a big stack has arisen, grab it (your friends will be annoyed at your disruption of the game but don't let this stop you) and look through it. It's not ordered, is it? Not perfectly. But it's a good deal easier to predict what's coming next than it would be with the thrice-shuffled pack you had earlier.

now, could someone who knows what they're talking about tell me if that's a good analogy or not?
With the cards being like genes or genetic sequences and survival over a course of generations being the game; order arises because that's where the "path of least resistance" lies; and that's what entropy really is, that things will follow the path of least resistance.

Like a river will become bendier (more complicated) as a simple result of water going faster on the outside of kinks and slower on the inside. Depositing on the inside and eroding the outside, causing big meanders in the river; wouldn't a face-reading of entropy claim that rivers should be straight? Same for fjords.

[Kelly Chen]

Is entropy a good argument in mafia?

[Foolster41]

And what exactly is this force that gets to shuffle the decks? Is it as random force or a creative one? Wouldn't the path of least resistance be to become even more disordered, not more ordered?

[Nightson]

Earth is not a closed system, and you're completely misunderstanding the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Then again, you're probably doing so intentionally. It's hard to tell with you.

He's quoting something from fstdt awhile back.

"One of the most basic laws in the universe is the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This states that as time goes by, entropy in an environment will increase. Evolution argues differently against a law that is accepted EVERYWHERE BY EVERYONE. Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it."

~awesomestnerd, SmashBoards