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theplague42
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Post Post #10200  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:10 pm

No, YOU don't have any actual arguments to fall back on.
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Post Post #10201  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:12 pm

I know you don't but what about me?
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theplague42
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Post Post #10202  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:15 pm

I'm just gonna quote myself again, because nobody should debate voter ID laws (or any laws accused of racist effects, such as drug sentencing laws) without understanding how the Supreme Court decides on the constitutionality of laws.
In post 10196, theplague42 wrote:You guys need to read about strict scrutiny and its relationship with suspect classifications. If you want, I can explain why a law can be considered unconstitutional because of intent, implementation, or enforcement even if it doesn't actually mention race or another classification.
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Post Post #10203  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Luckily, we will have a new & improved Supreme Court very soon.

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Post Post #10204  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:30 pm

In post 10199, Wraith wrote:Meh, it's more he doesn't have any actual arguments to fall back upon so he's just filling the thread with nonsense. It's the patented Trump Troll strategy.


What argument do I need to fall back on? My original argument is still 100% valid.

Did you see Davsto's wall explaining how minorities are lazy & incapable of getting an ID? Isn't that exactly what I said Obama meant?

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Post Post #10205  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:33 pm

Karnos, did you watch the press conference this morning?

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Post Post #10206  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:34 pm

In post 10204, karnos wrote:
In post 10199, Wraith wrote:Meh, it's more he doesn't have any actual arguments to fall back upon so he's just filling the thread with nonsense. It's the patented Trump Troll strategy.


What argument do I need to fall back on? My original argument is still 100% valid.

Did you see Davsto's wall explaining how minorities are lazy & incapable of getting an ID? Isn't that exactly what I said Obama meant?

I mean, I joke about you being incapable of basic reading comprehension, but man if that's what you derived from my post you're either in need of serious lessons or just a troll who's attempting to get the worst possible meaning to inflame the argument further.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which one I believe.
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Wraith
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Post Post #10207  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:38 pm

In post 10206, Davsto wrote:
In post 10204, karnos wrote:
In post 10199, Wraith wrote:Meh, it's more he doesn't have any actual arguments to fall back upon so he's just filling the thread with nonsense. It's the patented Trump Troll strategy.


What argument do I need to fall back on? My original argument is still 100% valid.

Did you see Davsto's wall explaining how minorities are lazy & incapable of getting an ID? Isn't that exactly what I said Obama meant?

I mean, I joke about you being incapable of basic reading comprehension, but man if that's what you derived from my post you're either in need of serious lessons or just a troll who's attempting to get the worst possible meaning to inflame the argument further.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which one I believe.


His post left me fucking weak. That's probably the funniest thing I'll see all day.
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Post Post #10208  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:48 pm

In post 10187, Psyche wrote:They looked for the forms of ID that black people disproportionately used. And then made them ineligible.

https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/driver/id/

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Post Post #10209  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:50 pm

In post 10206, Davsto wrote:I mean, I joke about you being incapable of basic reading comprehension, but man if that's what you derived from my post you're either in need of serious lessons or just a troll who's attempting to get the worst possible meaning to inflame the argument further.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which one I believe.


You are the one insisting that blacks are incapable of obtaining a $13 (or free) ID card.

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Post Post #10210  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:51 pm


Davsto
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Post Post #10211  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:51 pm

It's funny because he thinks I made the argument
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Post Post #10212  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:54 pm

In post 10193, karnos wrote:Fun anecdote:

In Virginia I had to show my ID to vote. Hillary won Virgina, not Trump.

QED, voter ID laws favor democrats!

I didn't have to show mine in MA and Hillary won

QED, you don't know what QED means!

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Post Post #10213  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:55 pm

In post 10209, karnos wrote:
In post 10206, Davsto wrote:I mean, I joke about you being incapable of basic reading comprehension, but man if that's what you derived from my post you're either in need of serious lessons or just a troll who's attempting to get the worst possible meaning to inflame the argument further.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which one I believe.


You are the one insisting that blacks are incapable of obtaining a $13 (or free) ID card.


His point is that you're not reading opposing arguments at all and you're just making shit up based on classic conservative rhetoric in a poor attempt to simultaneously discredit the opposing argument and keep up the appearance that you yourself have an actual argument.

He's 100% correct, it is easily verifiable how he is, and you haven't even noticed what you did wrong yet.
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Post Post #10214  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:56 pm

A little reality check.

Only 55% of eligible voter aged people voted in the election. A lot of people aren't voting because they don't care, or they don't think their vote matters. This isn't a problem with blacks being unable to get an ID card, that is just fake news. Nearly half the eligible voting population chooses not to vote, and it's not all minorities.

What it really is, is that democrats are pissed off that Trump can get away with threatening to deport illegal immigrants. They wish that the "illegal vote" had more strength in the election, and hope that if states don't have voter ID laws illegal immigrants will be able to get away with voting. Obviously they will never admit to this, but it's the most obvious motive for this behavior.

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Post Post #10215  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:58 pm

How do you feel about early voting and increased polling locations? How about automatic registration?
.

Vi
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Post Post #10216  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:00 pm

In post 10208, Persivul wrote:
In post 10187, Psyche wrote:They looked for the forms of ID that black people disproportionately used. And then made them ineligible.

https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/driver/id/
From the Free ID page:
As with any non-operator ID card, you must provide proof of age and identity, a valid Social Security number and proof of citizenship and residency.
This is commonly done with birth certificates, which satisfy all of these except maybe SSN. How hard is it to get one? Here's what I would have to do to get mine (as an NC resident, mind). $25 isn't free any more. Getting a notary isn't necessarily free. Materials to mail things aren't free. It assumes you have reliable access to mail and it assumes you're going to go out of your way to get a money order. You obviously can't do it with any semblance of speed. And God help you if they ask for an original for some reason (I know my parents had to get mine for who-knows-why).
Decisions have consequences.
ALL decisions have consequences.
YOUR decisions have consequences.

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Post Post #10217  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:01 pm

In post 10213, Wraith wrote:
In post 10209, karnos wrote:
In post 10206, Davsto wrote:I mean, I joke about you being incapable of basic reading comprehension, but man if that's what you derived from my post you're either in need of serious lessons or just a troll who's attempting to get the worst possible meaning to inflame the argument further.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which one I believe.


You are the one insisting that blacks are incapable of obtaining a $13 (or free) ID card.


His point is that you're not reading opposing arguments at all and you're just making shit up based on classic conservative rhetoric in a poor attempt to simultaneously discredit the opposing argument and keep up the appearance that you yourself have an actual argument.

He's 100% correct, it is easily verifiable how he is, and you haven't even noticed what you did wrong yet.


I'm quoting his words, I am missing nothing.

Black people are more likely to be impoverished than white people
2. Black people are more likely to live in densely-populated urban areas (due to a myriad of historical and racist factors)
3. Impoverished people are less likely to own an automobile than non-impoverished people, due to a combination of inability to purchase (due to impoverishment and/or racist/predatory loaning practices) and lack of need due to living in dense urban areas
4. Impoverished people are less likely to have completed their education
5. Impoverished people are more likely to have received a sub-standard education
6. Impoverished people are more likely to work a low-paying hourly job(s)


The first point is crucial. This allows him to sub Impoverished when he means black. Essentially Davsto is saying blacks don't own cars, don't complete school, and work low paying jobs. Funny enough, he said the same thing twice for each point (example: less likely to have completed their education/more likely to have received a sub-standard education) so it looks like a longer list, but it's really just a lot of filler.

It comes down to Davsto being a huge racist, claiming blacks can't get good jobs, don't own cars, and are uneducated. If you can read the above quote and come to another conclusion, please enlighten me, because I'm just interpreting the meaning of the words he wrote.

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Post Post #10218  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:03 pm

In post 10214, karnos wrote:A little reality check.

Only 55% of eligible voter aged people voted in the election. A lot of people aren't voting because they don't care, or they don't think their vote matters. This isn't a problem with blacks being unable to get an ID card, that is just fake news. Nearly half the eligible voting population chooses not to vote, and it's not all minorities.

What it really is, is that democrats are pissed off that Trump can get away with threatening to deport illegal immigrants. They wish that the "illegal vote" had more strength in the election, and hope that if states don't have voter ID laws illegal immigrants will be able to get away with voting. Obviously they will never admit to this, but it's the most obvious motive for this behavior.


What motivates individual people to vote or not vote in a given election has no bearing on whether or not "voter ID" laws are discriminatory.

It's also baffling that you think illegal immigrants have any direct influence, real or theoretical, on the American voting process. If they are in the country illegally (especially keeping in mind that more deportations occurred under Obama than Bush), why would illegal immigrants stick their necks out to vote illegally? Doing so would be a shining a beacon down on people who are trying to keep their heads down.

In b4 "liberal conspiracy"
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Wraith
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Post Post #10219  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:04 pm

In post 10217, karnos wrote:
In post 10213, Wraith wrote:
In post 10209, karnos wrote:
In post 10206, Davsto wrote:I mean, I joke about you being incapable of basic reading comprehension, but man if that's what you derived from my post you're either in need of serious lessons or just a troll who's attempting to get the worst possible meaning to inflame the argument further.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which one I believe.


You are the one insisting that blacks are incapable of obtaining a $13 (or free) ID card.


His point is that you're not reading opposing arguments at all and you're just making shit up based on classic conservative rhetoric in a poor attempt to simultaneously discredit the opposing argument and keep up the appearance that you yourself have an actual argument.

He's 100% correct, it is easily verifiable how he is, and you haven't even noticed what you did wrong yet.


I'm quoting his words, I am missing nothing.

Black people are more likely to be impoverished than white people
2. Black people are more likely to live in densely-populated urban areas (due to a myriad of historical and racist factors)
3. Impoverished people are less likely to own an automobile than non-impoverished people, due to a combination of inability to purchase (due to impoverishment and/or racist/predatory loaning practices) and lack of need due to living in dense urban areas
4. Impoverished people are less likely to have completed their education
5. Impoverished people are more likely to have received a sub-standard education
6. Impoverished people are more likely to work a low-paying hourly job(s)


The first point is crucial. This allows him to sub Impoverished when he means black. Essentially Davsto is saying blacks don't own cars, don't complete school, and work low paying jobs. Funny enough, he said the same thing twice for each point (example: less likely to have completed their education/more likely to have received a sub-standard education) so it looks like a longer list, but it's really just a lot of filler.

It comes down to Davsto being a huge racist, claiming blacks can't get good jobs, don't own cars, and are uneducated. If you can read the above quote and come to another conclusion, please enlighten me, because I'm just interpreting the meaning of the words he wrote.


No, the thing you missed is that Davsto was literally copy-pasting what I had just posted as a joke at your expense, and you're now quoting it back to me as if I have no idea what Davsto said.
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Post Post #10220  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:07 pm

In post 10215, zoraster wrote:How do you feel about early voting and increased polling locations? How about automatic registration?


From a fraud perspective, no problem as long as ID are used.

From the perspective of having a fair election, early voting can influence future voters. (Example: Early voting polls indicate VA is going to hillary in a landslide, 80% of all voters voting for her - after news such as that, "regular" voters might decide to not bother.) But restricting exit polls seems unenforceable and a constitutional violation. I dunno, it's a complex thing. I'd be nice if everyone could just vote from the internet at home and all votes get tallied simultaneously, but the hacking potential there is huge. If I had the perfect solution I'd patent it and sell it to Diebold for a couple million and retire.

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Post Post #10221  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:08 pm

In post 10213, Wraith wrote:His point is that you're not reading opposing arguments at all and you're just making shit up based on classic conservative rhetoric in a poor attempt to simultaneously discredit the opposing argument and keep up the appearance that you yourself have an actual argument.

Referring to an argument as "classic conservative rhetoric" is an attempt to discredit the opposing argument. Amazing that you culdn't see that as you typed it.

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Post Post #10222  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:09 pm

In post 10218, Wraith wrote:
What motivates individual people to vote or not vote in a given election has no bearing on whether or not "voter ID" laws are discriminatory.


So, when a minority is not motivated enough to obtain a proper ID, that doesn't prove ID laws are discriminatory.

Glad you settled things, make sure you get all the other liberals on your line of thinking.

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Post Post #10223  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:11 pm

In post 10219, Wraith wrote:No, the thing you missed is that Davsto was literally copy-pasting what I had just posted as a joke at your expense, and you're now quoting it back to me as if I have no idea what Davsto said.



So what?

Copy/paste racist words and post them as your own is still racist.

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Post Post #10224  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:14 pm

In post 10221, Persivul wrote:
In post 10213, Wraith wrote:His point is that you're not reading opposing arguments at all and you're just making shit up based on classic conservative rhetoric in a poor attempt to simultaneously discredit the opposing argument and keep up the appearance that you yourself have an actual argument.

Referring to an argument as "classic conservative rhetoric" is an attempt to discredit the opposing argument. Amazing that you culdn't see that as you typed it.


I mean, that's true. But I don't really take inherently disingenuous, canned arguments seriously, and I'll call them out accordingly. There are valid arguments that can be made from a conservative standpoint, karnos just doesn't use them for reasons I can only speculate upon.
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