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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:44 pm
by Creature
In post 19124, Slaxx wrote:
In post 19122, Creature wrote:
In post 19118, Psyche wrote:
In post 19114, Creature wrote:I would be pretty pissed if I was being taxed more than 70% of my income.

the proposed 70% rate is marginal
do you know what that means

Yes, profit. I don't think anyone would have a 10 million dollars wage anyway.


Which is why capital gains tax needs reformed too. Put it in brackets.

Considering I could've gained a profit of 10 million dollars, losing 7 million is already pretty saddening. Increase that ammount and you'll see good people giving up about growing their business while bad people finding ways to tax fraud.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:44 pm
by Slaxx
Rich people, effectively, make huge money selling things and services to a huge amount of people.

If there aren’t a huge amount of people with discretionary income to buy those things it falls in on itself.

Taxes help offset that disparity by providing a safety net and an opportunity to grow.

Without my dads VA college benefits, I’d still be in a single wide trailer doing nothing of use for the economy.

Meanwhile my 18 year old sister will have a $500 a month student loan payment. Good luck selling her stuff!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:45 pm
by Slaxx
In post 19126, Creature wrote:
In post 19124, Slaxx wrote:
In post 19122, Creature wrote:
In post 19118, Psyche wrote:
In post 19114, Creature wrote:I would be pretty pissed if I was being taxed more than 70% of my income.

the proposed 70% rate is marginal
do you know what that means

Yes, profit. I don't think anyone would have a 10 million dollars wage anyway.


Which is why capital gains tax needs reformed too. Put it in brackets.

Considering I could've gained a profit of 10 million dollars, losing 7 million is already pretty saddening. Increase that ammount and you'll see good people giving up about growing their business while bad people finding ways to tax fraud.


Actually, as in the days of Eisenhower, that high tax rate encourages people to actually put it back into their business since the cut they got wasn’t as much.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:46 pm
by Creature
or the classic:

If you gotta pay $10 for someone to profit $3 from a 70% marginal rate, how much would you pay for someone to keep that profit of $3 on a 90% marginal rate?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:47 pm
by Slaxx
I’m not even saying this as a moral argument.

I’m telling you that as wealth disparity increases that the system falls in on itself. We are heading in the wrong direction, and a tax is a good correction. A poor middle class tanks the economy. Every time.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:48 pm
by Creature
In post 19125, Slaxx wrote:
In post 19123, YellowSnow wrote:Unemployment is at a historical low, don't you think having a job helps your income?


Lol

If that job isn’t even enough for you to get by or actually build wealth, then no, it doesn’t matter does it? Which is my point about wage disparity.

A

I don't care that much if someone is gaining billions. I care if someone is getting enough to survive and self-develop themselves.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:48 pm
by YellowSnow
Historically communist nations have a history of falling on itself while capitalist nations grow exponentially.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:49 pm
by Slaxx
In post 19132, YellowSnow wrote:Historically communist nations have a history of falling on itself while capitalist nations grow exponentially.


A progressive tax is far from communism.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:50 pm
by Kublai Khan
In post 19097, YellowSnow wrote:I don't think you should be penalized for being wealthy. We live in the largest economy in the world and the "average american" is better off than a good portion of the rest of the world and the rich shouldn't feel guilty or punished for success.

Hey, this is definitely a thought of someone who has no idea what Enron is.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:50 pm
by Annadog40
Yep, and no one gets left behind in capitalism.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:50 pm
by Slaxx
In post 19131, Creature wrote:
In post 19125, Slaxx wrote:
In post 19123, YellowSnow wrote:Unemployment is at a historical low, don't you think having a job helps your income?


Lol

If that job isn’t even enough for you to get by or actually build wealth, then no, it doesn’t matter does it? Which is my point about wage disparity.

A

I don't care that much if someone is gaining billions. I care if someone is getting enough to survive and self-develop themselves.


They aren’t, friend.

Getting by, maybe, developing themselves... maybe going in to debt to do it.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:51 pm
by shaft.ed
In post 19100, Creature wrote:
In post 19093, shaft.ed wrote:currently you have the rich robbing the poor

???

the wealthy in the US pay less % on their earning than the middle class
Warren Buffet estimated he pays 17% taxes on what he earns
his secratary was paying high 20s to low 30s

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:52 pm
by Creature
In post 19130, Slaxx wrote:I’m not even saying this as a moral argument.

I’m telling you that as wealth disparity increases that the system falls in on itself. We are heading in the wrong direction, and a tax is a good correction. A poor middle class tanks the economy. Every time.

Cool, I want lower taxes for middle class too. Though, I don't want to tax the rich more because I know we'll end paying their tax if we tax them more. Government should do cuts.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:52 pm
by Psyche
In post 19122, Creature wrote:
In post 19118, Psyche wrote:
In post 19114, Creature wrote:I would be pretty pissed if I was being taxed more than 70% of my income.

the proposed 70% rate is marginal
do you know what that means

Yes, profit. I don't think anyone would have a 10 million dollars wage anyway.

can you be specific?
say i have made 1,000,100 dollars. If the only tax I have to worry about is a 70% marginal tax on income over 1 million, how much money is the government taking?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:52 pm
by YellowSnow
In post 19134, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 19097, YellowSnow wrote:I don't think you should be penalized for being wealthy. We live in the largest economy in the world and the "average american" is better off than a good portion of the rest of the world and the rich shouldn't feel guilty or punished for success.

Hey, this is definitely a thought of someone who has no idea what Enron is.


Dumbass comment...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron:_Th ... n_the_Room

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:54 pm
by Slaxx
In post 19138, Creature wrote:
In post 19130, Slaxx wrote:I’m not even saying this as a moral argument.

I’m telling you that as wealth disparity increases that the system falls in on itself. We are heading in the wrong direction, and a tax is a good correction. A poor middle class tanks the economy. Every time.

Cool, I want lower taxes for middle class too. Though, I don't want to tax the rich more because I know we'll end paying their tax if we tax them more. Government should do cuts.


No, they should just actually staff the IRS and focus on getting money from the wealthy people who owe it.

And trust me, the government should be streamlined. Oh how I know it should. I think actual cuts aren’t necessary.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:56 pm
by shaft.ed
In post 19132, YellowSnow wrote:Historically communist nations have a history of falling on itself while capitalist nations grow exponentially.

and who is asking for communism?

such boring discussions anymore

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:56 pm
by Kublai Khan
In post 19140, YellowSnow wrote:
In post 19134, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 19097, YellowSnow wrote:I don't think you should be penalized for being wealthy. We live in the largest economy in the world and the "average american" is better off than a good portion of the rest of the world and the rich shouldn't feel guilty or punished for success.

Hey, this is definitely a thought of someone who has no idea what Enron is.
Dumbass comment...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron:_Th ... n_the_Room

Okay, you showed me that you can be surly and google a documentary. Can you explain the situation that it's a documentary of and how much punishment the rich get vis-a-vis how the "average american" does?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:57 pm
by Slaxx
Yeah the fact communism was brought up with a progressive tax rate is like

Wut

I have to say I like Creature though, I can at least hold a discussion there.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:57 pm
by Slaxx
Tulsi is expected to drop out Creature :P

Campaign manager on the way out rumor has it

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:58 pm
by Psyche
creature is worse

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:58 pm
by YellowSnow
In post 19143, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 19140, YellowSnow wrote:
In post 19134, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 19097, YellowSnow wrote:I don't think you should be penalized for being wealthy. We live in the largest economy in the world and the "average american" is better off than a good portion of the rest of the world and the rich shouldn't feel guilty or punished for success.

Hey, this is definitely a thought of someone who has no idea what Enron is.
Dumbass comment...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron:_Th ... n_the_Room

Okay, you showed me that you can be surly and google a documentary. Can you explain the situation that it's a documentary of and how much punishment the rich get vis-a-vis how the "average american" does?


not if you're going to insult me because I have a different point of view than you.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:59 pm
by Slaxx
In post 19146, Psyche wrote:creature is worse


I’d argue he’s just worse because he’s better

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:00 pm
by zoraster
In post 19129, Creature wrote:or the classic:

If you gotta pay $10 for someone to profit $3 from a 70% marginal rate, how much would you pay for someone to keep that profit of $3 on a 90% marginal rate?


marginal tax rates can create different incentives, certainly.

Let's say you have a company of 101 people (including yourself) that you own a majority share of and lead. Let's say you could choose to (a) pay yourself 20m a year and pay your employees 50k a year or (b) pay yourself 10m and pay your employees 150k a year. With today's income tax brackets may (a) gives you just shy of 13m comp and (b) gives you 6.3m. You care about your employees wellbeing, but the 6.7m difference is just too much to turn away so you pick (a). But let's say you used today's tax brackets but put in the suggested 10m at 70% tax bracket. Situation (a) gives you ~9.5m and (b) gives you the same 6.3m. Suddenly maybe that 3.2m difference isn't quite enough and you realize that the efficiency of your money is better spent on your employees.

Or say you're not into employees getting more money. Maybe it incentivizes charitable giving. Or reinvestment in the company. Etc.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:09 pm
by Kublai Khan
In post 19147, YellowSnow wrote:
In post 19143, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 19140, YellowSnow wrote:
In post 19134, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 19097, YellowSnow wrote:I don't think you should be penalized for being wealthy. We live in the largest economy in the world and the "average american" is better off than a good portion of the rest of the world and the rich shouldn't feel guilty or punished for success.

Hey, this is definitely a thought of someone who has no idea what Enron is.
Dumbass comment...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron:_Th ... n_the_Room

Okay, you showed me that you can be surly and google a documentary. Can you explain the situation that it's a documentary of and how much punishment the rich get vis-a-vis how the "average american" does?


not if you're going to insult me because I have a different point of view than you.

What insult? I said you had no idea what Enron was and a couple of exchanges later you still haven't shown anything beyond a tangential awareness of it.

I mean, before you go on a rant about "taxes are communism" maaaaybe you should be aware of how the rich have historically screwed the middle and the poor and how they continue to screw over the middle and the poor.