Individual-1 (Donald Trump)

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Slaxx
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Post Post #19175  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:14 pm

Nothing about that is hilarious actually

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Post Post #19176  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:19 pm

I don't mean to be insulting...but I've yet to see a self-described "fiscal conservative" have a real grasp on how taxes and government work. It makes it really difficult to discuss economic policy with someone who describes themselves that way when they don't know how these things work.

And like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad Creature, or anyone else who wants to hold a conservative ideal. But if you want to debate policy, you really need to understand what we're talking about. Otherwise it just makes you A) look stupid and B) feel like you are getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're not stupid, and you're not getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're getting ganged up on because you don't understand how taxes and government work AND you are unwilling to learn!

And I, nor anyone else, want you to feel that way!
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Post Post #19177  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:20 pm

In post 19078, YellowSnow wrote:I'm undecided on 2020. I know the economy is strong and personally I am better off financially than I have been at any other time in my life. I don't know that I can attribute that to Trump but I don't know that I want to change captains either. Also I tend to be conservative economically and liberal socially. Not sure I agree with Warren and Sanders on their tax proposals in principle. On the other hand I know it sucks to be a minority or woman under the Trump regime.


For what it's worth, fiscally conservative and socially liberal makes you a Democrat and you don't need to feel compelled to defend Trump or Republicanism.
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Post Post #19178  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:37 pm

I'm not defending Trump as a person but Republicanism seems more mainstream to me than the leftist policies that the democratic party is moving towards.

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Post Post #19179  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:48 pm

then why are dem policies more popular
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Post Post #19180  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:52 pm

They're not. Two of the last three and three of the last five presidents have been Republicans.

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Post Post #19181  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:53 pm

In post 19181, YellowSnow wrote:They're not. Two of the last three and three of the last five presidents have been Republicans.

can you show us the popular vote records
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Post Post #19182  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:55 pm

In post 19180, Psyche wrote:then why are dem policies more popular

Because they are great. People totally want them magically implemented without giving up anything.
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Post Post #19183  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:56 pm

weird (and evidently dishonest) metric of what’s popular right now to gesture at national elections from decades ago
why not just link to recent polls on specific wedge issues?
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Post Post #19184  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:02 pm

In post 19179, YellowSnow wrote:I'm not defending Trump as a person but Republicanism seems more mainstream to me than the leftist policies that the democratic party is moving towards.

Recent opinion polls suggest the opposite (even more so if we were to include the rest of the western world where things like single payer healthcare are popular and have not bankrupted the countries that have them)

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/ ... -rate.html
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/politics ... index.html
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/42750 ... -wall-poll
https://news.gallup.com/poll/238013/ame ... lpful.aspx]
https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Marqu ... 36501.html (this is wisconsin specific but i couldn't find nearly as recent a poll for nationwide)
https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/st ... -all-gun-/ (shows that background checks for gun sales has been consistently more mainstream than the republican position)


So if you're simply trying to align yourself with mainstream policies, hop on the donkey
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Post Post #19185  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:04 pm

And I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people who disagree with progressive policy ideas. There are plenty, and the polls I listed show that.

But to paint leftist policies with the broad assertion that they are not "mainstream" ideas seems false.
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Post Post #19186  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:10 pm

In post 19177, T-Bone wrote:I don't mean to be insulting...but I've yet to see a self-described "fiscal conservative" have a real grasp on how taxes and government work. It makes it really difficult to discuss economic policy with someone who describes themselves that way when they don't know how these things work.

And like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad Creature, or anyone else who wants to hold a conservative ideal. But if you want to debate policy, you really need to understand what we're talking about. Otherwise it just makes you A) look stupid and B) feel like you are getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're not stupid, and you're not getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're getting ganged up on because you don't understand how taxes and government work AND you are unwilling to learn!

And I, nor anyone else, want you to feel that way!

I mean, I don't need to know the exact tax system to argue why whatever the % on the rich is shouldn't be exaggerated.
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Post Post #19187  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:12 pm

Also, I don't feel ganged on. Atleast it's possible to debate here without having to worry about possibly offending someone.

Maybe some day I'll be ready to present my arguments way better. Meanwhile I'll keep trying.
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Post Post #19188  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:18 pm

In post 19179, YellowSnow wrote:I'm not defending Trump as a person but Republicanism seems more mainstream to me than the leftist policies that the democratic party is moving towards.

I dunno how much I like the Republican party. I guess I'm just fond of it because I consider myself moderate right.
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Post Post #19189  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:20 pm

In post 19189, Creature wrote:I dunno how much I like the Republican party. I guess I'm just fond of it because I consider myself moderate right.

Hillary Clinton should have been your ideal candidate if you go strictly by policy position, then. :yawn:
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Post Post #19190  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:26 pm

In post 19187, Creature wrote:
In post 19177, T-Bone wrote:I don't mean to be insulting...but I've yet to see a self-described "fiscal conservative" have a real grasp on how taxes and government work. It makes it really difficult to discuss economic policy with someone who describes themselves that way when they don't know how these things work.

And like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad Creature, or anyone else who wants to hold a conservative ideal. But if you want to debate policy, you really need to understand what we're talking about. Otherwise it just makes you A) look stupid and B) feel like you are getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're not stupid, and you're not getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're getting ganged up on because you don't understand how taxes and government work AND you are unwilling to learn!

And I, nor anyone else, want you to feel that way!

I mean, I don't need to know the exact tax system to argue why whatever the % on the rich is shouldn't be exaggerated.

sure but you do need to understand the tax system to know whether or not it is exaggerated

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Post Post #19191  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:29 pm

In post 19191, shaft.ed wrote:
In post 19187, Creature wrote:
In post 19177, T-Bone wrote:I don't mean to be insulting...but I've yet to see a self-described "fiscal conservative" have a real grasp on how taxes and government work. It makes it really difficult to discuss economic policy with someone who describes themselves that way when they don't know how these things work.

And like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad Creature, or anyone else who wants to hold a conservative ideal. But if you want to debate policy, you really need to understand what we're talking about. Otherwise it just makes you A) look stupid and B) feel like you are getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're not stupid, and you're not getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're getting ganged up on because you don't understand how taxes and government work AND you are unwilling to learn!

And I, nor anyone else, want you to feel that way!

I mean, I don't need to know the exact tax system to argue why whatever the % on the rich is shouldn't be exaggerated.

sure but you do need to understand the tax system to know whether or not it is exaggerated

Were we arguing the current tax system is exaggerated or were we arguing about the 20% (or infinity and beyond) increase change?
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Post Post #19192  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:29 pm

In post 19190, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 19189, Creature wrote:I dunno how much I like the Republican party. I guess I'm just fond of it because I consider myself moderate right.

Hillary Clinton should have been your ideal candidate if you go strictly by policy position, then. :yawn:

Hell no
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Post Post #19193  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:31 pm

Though, I noticed she proposed more pokestops and if I knew sooner I would've supported her.
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Post Post #19194  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:38 pm

I'm just saying hillary is

a war hawk
minimally-to-not supportive of identity issues from a policy-priority standpoint
very cozy with business interests and wall st
didn't want a 70%+ marginal tax rate


If you're center right, you'll wish you had Hillary if this new progressive wing of the Democrat Party wins in 2020
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Post Post #19195  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:41 pm

I don't think I care that much about who wins the US elections considering I'm not even from US. Not being a far-left crazie is enough for me.
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Post Post #19196  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:46 pm

I voted Hillary.

u r a person 2
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Post Post #19197  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:46 pm

oh, i didn't know that. carry on, then LOL
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Post Post #19198  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:50 pm

^talking to creature
In post 19197, YellowSnow wrote:I voted Hillary.

cool. me, too. I actually voted for her in the primary because I expected a republican senate (and thus no less progress on domestic issues than Sanders) and Hillary was dramatically more qualified on foreign policy, hawk or not.

I voted for her in the 2008 primary, too because anyone with a brain knew that BO wasn't going to be able to bring republicans to the table. years of progress died on the cross of bi-partisanship.

so im a fan of hers even though I'm far to her left. She is objectively a moderate in our current political climate is all I was saying
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Post Post #19199  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:05 pm

In post 19192, Creature wrote:
In post 19191, shaft.ed wrote:
In post 19187, Creature wrote:
In post 19177, T-Bone wrote:I don't mean to be insulting...but I've yet to see a self-described "fiscal conservative" have a real grasp on how taxes and government work. It makes it really difficult to discuss economic policy with someone who describes themselves that way when they don't know how these things work.

And like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad Creature, or anyone else who wants to hold a conservative ideal. But if you want to debate policy, you really need to understand what we're talking about. Otherwise it just makes you A) look stupid and B) feel like you are getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're not stupid, and you're not getting ganged up on for being a conservative. You're getting ganged up on because you don't understand how taxes and government work AND you are unwilling to learn!

And I, nor anyone else, want you to feel that way!

I mean, I don't need to know the exact tax system to argue why whatever the % on the rich is shouldn't be exaggerated.

sure but you do need to understand the tax system to know whether or not it is exaggerated

Were we arguing the current tax system is exaggerated or were we arguing about the 20% (or infinity and beyond) increase change?

to know if an increase would be exaggerated you need to understand where you are starting from

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