Individual-1 (Donald Trump)

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panthaleon
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Post Post #24900  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:10 pm

I'm sure that Trump and McConnell are very open to that :)
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Psyche
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Post Post #24901  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:59 pm

oh but court packing is something everyone can agree on

panthaleon
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Post Post #24902  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:07 pm

Do you think that rule of law or checks and balances still exist?

This year has pretty clearly demonstrated that our society was mostly held together with good faith. It's weird that people are still trying to play within the boundaries of what they think should exist even while the right shows no interest in playing along
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TDC
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Post Post #24903  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:24 pm

Other than oppression or good faith, how else would a society be held together?

panthaleon
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Post Post #24904  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:54 pm

I more mean like there are very few actual laws on the matter. A lot of it is discretionary and left to history
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Vi
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Post Post #24905  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:55 pm

In post 24903, TDC wrote:Other than oppression or good faith, how else would a society be held together?
What's the difference between oppression and good faith, except whether the power structure favors you?

panthaleon 24904 wrote:I more mean like there are very few actual laws on the matter. A lot of it is discretionary and left to history
but also they don't call him a "lawless president" without reason
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Psyche
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Post Post #24906  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:00 pm

i think there are laws we can pass to make some aspects of the system a little less dependent on good faith.

panthaleon
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Post Post #24907  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:05 pm

In post 24905, Vi wrote:
In post 24903, TDC wrote:Other than oppression or good faith, how else would a society be held together?
What's the difference between oppression and good faith, except whether the power structure favors you?

panthaleon 24904 wrote:I more mean like there are very few actual laws on the matter. A lot of it is discretionary and left to history
but also they don't call him a "lawless president" without reason


I mean most of the worst shit he does is completely legal. It's just the kind of stuff that feels like it should be illegal.

Like there's nothing illegal about the president lying continuously. There's nothing illegal about appointing people to do his bidding. There's nothing illegal about jamming this appointment through.

It's the kind of thing where lawlessness is being used as a descriptor of character rather than of literal action.
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chamber
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Post Post #24908  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:06 pm

In post 24906, Psyche wrote:i think there are laws we can pass to make some aspects of the system a little less dependent on good faith.


Laws only help when there is a mechanism to enforce them. At some level good faith/buying into the system is required.

The biggest single disaster in this respect atm is likely the 'can't prosecute a sitting president' interpretation, because it provides a really strong incentive to remain a sitting president if you know you are fucked when it ends. Echo's strongly of Ceaser and Rome.
Last edited by chamber on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Dwlee99
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Post Post #24909  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:07 pm

Wouldn't real institutional change be harder than court packing? One would require a constitutional change.

Psyche
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Post Post #24910  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:10 pm

In post 24908, chamber wrote:
In post 24906, Psyche wrote:i think there are laws we can pass to make some aspects of the system a little less dependent on good faith.


Laws only help when there is a mechanism to enforce them. At some level good faith/buying into the system is required.

The biggest single disaster in this respect atm is likely the 'can't prosecute a sitting president' interpretation, because it provides a really strong incentive to remain a sitting president if you know you are fucked when it ends. Echo's strongly of Ceaser and Rome.

i said a little!

Vi
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Post Post #24911  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:22 pm

In post 24907, panthaleon wrote:
In post 24905, Vi wrote:
In post 24903, TDC wrote:Other than oppression or good faith, how else would a society be held together?
What's the difference between oppression and good faith, except whether the power structure favors you?

panthaleon 24904 wrote:I more mean like there are very few actual laws on the matter. A lot of it is discretionary and left to history
but also they don't call him a "lawless president" without reason
I mean most of the worst shit he does is completely legal. It's just the kind of stuff that feels like it should be illegal.

Like there's nothing illegal about the president lying continuously. There's nothing illegal about appointing people to do his bidding. There's nothing illegal about jamming this appointment through.

It's the kind of thing where lawlessness is being used as a descriptor of character rather than of literal action.
You're right. I want to respond with "but would it really matter if they were illegal", but people resisting the actual illegal things he does is why things haven't gotten this bad sooner.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.

panthaleon
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Post Post #24912  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:26 pm

I mean he does illegal things too, but compared to the stuff that is legal, the emoluments clause and stuff are kinda very small fish.
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T-Bone
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Post Post #24913  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:50 pm

In post 24895, pisskop wrote:It is full of joy

If he wins, we need a different one. Let this one rest in pizza

I'm voting for Trump so we can have 4 more years of this thread.

I think y'all will be surprised and disappointed at how normal his second term will be. He's not a lunatic.
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Post Post #24914  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:04 pm

In post 24913, T-Bone wrote:
In post 24895, pisskop wrote:It is full of joy

If he wins, we need a different one. Let this one rest in pizza

I'm voting for Trump so we can have 4 more years of this thread.

I think y'all will be surprised and disappointed at how normal his second term will be. He's not a lunatic.

Fired.
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TDC
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Post Post #24915  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:31 pm

In post 24905, Vi wrote:What's the difference between oppression and good faith, except whether the power structure favors you?

The utopian answer would be that a society could function without any power structure, purely on good faith. I agree that in the real world good faith is partially forced, sure.

I think my point was more that a society that doesnt require good faith would not be very attractive to me.

Dongempire
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Post Post #24916  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:47 am

In post 24913, T-Bone wrote:
In post 24895, pisskop wrote:It is full of joy

If he wins, we need a different one. Let this one rest in pizza

I'm voting for Trump so we can have 4 more years of this thread.

I think y'all will be surprised and disappointed at how normal his second term will be. He's not a lunatic.

Now Joe Biden... There's a crazy man.
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Kublai Khan
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Post Post #24917  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:32 pm

Trump's tax returns have been released.

He's basically broke.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... taxes.html
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Ythan
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Post Post #24918  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:43 pm

Let me get my surprised hat it's here somewhere.
All the scumbuddies are making a fuss,
But I can't pay attention 'cause I'm on that bus.

Vi
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Post Post #24919  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:24 pm

In post 24917, Kublai Khan wrote:Trump's tax returns have been released.

He's basically broke.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... taxes.html
I've wondered for a while how much the "successful businessman" thing actually mattered to voters vs. being a household name who was also really racist but not necessarily a household name for being really racist.
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pisskop
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Post Post #24920  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:33 pm

My godmother is slowly crawling down that final hill with CHF, and it is almost her dying wish to see him run out and made as a fraud. Today she was probably the most alive Ive seen her in . . . 3 or 4 months.
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NoPowerOverMe
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Post Post #24921  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:31 pm

Trump's main problem besides being a racist is he revels in bad press.
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Psyche
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Post Post #24922  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:34 am

id say those are both big advantages for him

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Post Post #24923  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:36 am

In post 24921, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Trump's main problem besides being a racist is he revels in bad press.

I mean, considering that people will still vote for him and there's plenty of bad press to go around, it seems to be a strength to win over Republicans.

If he did the same thing as Nixon in Watergate, he'd somehow be praised.
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panthaleon
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Post Post #24924  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:55 am

You know that's not a coincidence right? Fox news and the modern right wing media circuit was created as a response to Nixon's failure during Watergate.
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