Brexit
- Porochaz
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
- Porochaz
- Oh, Prozac
- Oh, Prozac
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I wasn't trying to make the argument of whether it is good or not, I was trying to show reasoning behind my/peoples votes. Facts and figures weren't well researched, which was what point 1 was trying to say and a little digging would have proved that. The freedom aspect was definitely a huge factor in the voting. I would say mainly from the yes voters. I'm not entirely sure that many no voters voted no because they wanted independence and came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it at this point in time, especially considering it was being touted as a "once in a generation" thing. I do know of people who voted yes despite the risks, Im not entirely sure I know of anyone who wanted to vote yes but was dissuaded because of them.Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.- ConManMick
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ConManMick Dear Derry
- ConManMick
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I endorse this fully authentic Scotsman's postIn post 341, Porochaz wrote: As ms's Scottish representative (yeah, ConManMike is Irish, screw you everyone who says otherwise)"As everyone knows there is a special guardian angel for drunkards and lovers"- Alexandre Dumas
TÁL- Randomnamechange
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Randomnamechange Jack of All Trades
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- Jack of All Trades
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Labour don't get in right now. Politics have swung to the right and they aren't going to beat the Tory's on that. The alternative is to build a strong base of left-wing voters so when the political scene swings back they are in a good position. Corbyn won't be PM, but neither would any other Labour MPIn post 330, zoraster wrote:
I absolutely believe that's the case. Most people in a party will vote for the party that fits their politics rather than the leader. It's logical and makes sense to do so. But that doesn't win elections. That's a very baseline of support, and in anything approaching a marginal constituency, you're going to suffer if your leader -- the person you're putting forward as the next PM -- is seen even by those in your party as not being up for the job.In post 328, Davsto wrote:
How about the fact that the categories are divided by "voting intention", meaning that even those Labour ones who say that May would make a better leader are still planning on voting Labour anyway (because most people vote for aIn post 327, zoraster wrote:I don't know why it doesn't support the idea he would result in low Labour votes if he were to remain in power.partythat fits with their politics rather than for the rather changeable leader)?
Regardless, that isn't responsive to the other chart that shows across every age demographic May is seen as making a better PM. I do not get how that doesn't trouble you deeply if you're Labour.vonflare (21:40)
you suck randomidget- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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He/Him- Disorganized Crime
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- Porochaz
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
- Porochaz
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Both options suck.
What the labour party want and what the people (who are willing to register themselves) want are completely different things. Under either leader Labour are unelectable, they need someone who is a compromise between Corbyn and Smith but noones come forwardMostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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There's a lot of time between now and the next general election. If I had to hazard a guess even under Smith it'd be a tough election, but the variance is large. But I'm far more sure that if Corbyn is selected there's no chance at all for the next election. And I don't think the left does themselves any favors in the long term either. It's not like having someone like Corbyn perpetually losing elections is going to lead to the achievement of real goals..- Porochaz
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
- Porochaz
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Corbyn definitely doesn't have the support of the party, Smith definitely doesn't have the support of the electorate. He's not left enough to appeal to them and further more, he's the one trying to supplant the leader the vocal want. I reckon at this juncture, neither have a chance, and furthermore, won't regardless of how long passes.Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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- Korts
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Korts Luddite
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- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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- Drench
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Drench he/himcrucial waukesha voter
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he/him- crucial waukesha voter
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Drench he/himcrucial waukesha voter
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he/him- crucial waukesha voter
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- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 56506.html
Merkel stepping in to say that separation has to come first and can't run parallel to trade..- Davsto
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Davsto He/HimFarce of Habit
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- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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Market seems mixed on this. Looks like it was assumed Brexit was happening and Merkel's response is seen as -- at the very least -- just the expected response.
FTSE 100 and 250 up for the day, British Pound down vs. the USD about 1.5% from its high on Monday (though down 28% from its high in 2015, 38% from the high in 2014, and 69% from 2007).- Ranmaru
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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- theplague42
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theplague42 Mafia Scum
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- zoraster
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized Crime
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That's kind of complicated. https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... n#spending
I think a bigger question isn't the actual tax and spend of it, it's the effect of trade restrictions and immigration restrictions. The UK is the second largest economy in the EU (though France isn't too far behind). It serves as a large market for exports from EU countries..- Fluminator
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Fluminator Mafia Scum
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- mykonian
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Yeah Zor has the gist of it, I think. The EU from a rich country point of view goes well beyond how much money is thrown towards Brussels. It might seem "unfair" that Poland gets x amount of money, and pays only y. But with that money to invest, what are they supposed to do? Infrastructure is greatly improved in these countries, meaning they are much more unlocked to take part in the trade. Sure, there's money thrown at agriculture, but is the Polish industry supposed to compete for cost on machinery with German producers? And sure, Polish workers end up migrating as well, including to Brittain: who really benefits from this cheap labour just being accessible like that? Investment opportunities are bountifull in less developed countries. Bring some knowledge and a pile of money and your effect will be much bigger than a developed country where the margins would be smaller. Yet who has this pile of money ton invest, and reap the returns? Overall, money flows towards where it mostly is already. Germany pouring money into this European project isn't out of generosity, they stand to win the most, as they have the biggest pile of money, the most developed industry as it stands.
Now from an EU point of view, it's one less competitor for these boons. But a bigger effect is probably that the UK is a sizable market to sell to after all. Not that it will disappear, but it'll become harder to sell to, so like the Netherlands, for who the UK was decently important as a place to trade with, iirc it's projected to cost a percent or two in money made, which is sizable. Specific countries stand to gain though. Purely on budget, I shouldn't think that France is sad about the rebate disappearing, even if it could be rediscussed. With the economic center of London potentially disappearing behind borders, there's another English speaking country nearby, still within the EU. I am not saying Dublin is the new London, but there are opportunities there. Otherwise, there's always Frankfurt. Overall though, it's a big market disappearing, and that'll sting. The main difference is that the effect is spread out on that side. In nearly all cases I spoke about there were two sides that benefitted, though I suspect the rich countries couldn't complain. The further the UK wants to throw up the barriers to Europe, the further they are cutting into their own benefits as well.
Which means it's still a question how thorough this is going to be. Whatever we hear now really is already part of the negotiations, the game that's played there. Too early to tell imo.Last edited by mykonian on Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice. - mykonian
- Fluminator
- zoraster
- theplague42
- zoraster
- Ranmaru
- zoraster
- zoraster
- zoraster
- Drench
- Drench
- zoraster
- zoraster
- Korts
- zoraster
- Porochaz
- zoraster
- Porochaz
- zoraster
- Randomnamechange
- ConManMick
- Porochaz