Logical Fallacies Poll+Discussion

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Which fallacy have you been most prone to using?

Genetic Fallacies
3
27%
Equivocation
0
No votes
Faulty Causation Fallacies
0
No votes
False Appeal Fallacies
0
No votes
Appeal to Emotion
2
18%
Inconsistency
0
No votes
Straw Man
2
18%
Red Herring
2
18%
Either/Or
0
No votes
Hasty Generalization
1
9%
Two Wrongs Make A Right
0
No votes
Is/Ought Confusion
0
No votes
Questionable Claim
0
No votes
Begging the Question
1
9%
 
Total votes: 11

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Logical Fallacies Poll+Discussion

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:22 am

Post by eagerSnake »

What logical fallacies have you been most prone to using? What fallacies have others used against you? How could you avoid these fallacies in the future?


Spoiler: Explanation of each fallacy
1. Genetic Fallacies
- This is an attempt to discredit a position by condemning its source, or to establish a position by condemning the source of an opposing viewpoint. Two types of genetic fallacies are common:
  • Ad hominem abusive (to the man)
    - This is an attempt to disparage the character of the person presenting the argument, to deny that person's intelligence, or to question his or her integrity, while not addressing the statements or arguments being presented. This is often referred to as "character assassination."
    Examples:

    How can you believe anything he says? He's an idiot!
    Don't blame me, you lying weasel; this mess is mostly your fault, anyway!

  • Ad hominem circumstantial
    - Instead of using verbal abuse in attacking the opponent, the person attempts to discredit the arguer's statements by alluding to certain circumstances that affect the opponent. This charges that the arguer is so prejudiced that he or she cannot be objective in his or her views; that is, you are wrong because of your circumstances.
    Examples:

    Your opinion has no merit because you're just a student.
    What would you know about finances? You're a woman!
2. Equivocation
- An argument is ambiguous when one uses a word or phrase in such a way that its meaning is not clear or can be taken in more than one way. In other words, instead of using language to clarify a point, words are used to muddy the waters and make things more confusing. The most common form of ambiguity, equivocation, results from a play on words. The conclusion of the argument depends on one or more words being used in two different senses in the same argument.
Examples:

It's right to say that people have rights, right?
The puppy in the cage was for sale, but now it's free.
My golf instructor said to keep my swing on a single plane, so now I only practice on Boeing 747s.
How can they tell us that we have no credit? Shouldn't we get some credit for trying so hard to get out of debt?

3. Faulty Causation Fallacies
- A causal argument is an attempt to show that one thing causes another (A causes B). Many causal arguments are true - studying causes students to make better grades, gravity causes things to fall, and so on. On other occasions, we sometimes jump to the conclusion that one thing causes another when no such causal connection exists. These are fallacies of faulty causation. Three such fallacies are:
  • Post hoc (after the thing)
    - This is a fallacy about time. One event occurs, and later on another event occurs. So someone jumps to the conclusion that the first event must have caused the second, only because it happened first.
    Examples:

    Allen had a beer and then got 100% on his test. Therefore, Allen made a 100 because he had a beer.
    Right after we got married, you broke that mirror in the hall. It seems like we've had money problems ever since. Thanks to your carelessness, now we're cursed!

  • Slippery slope
    - Sometimes referred to as "the domino effect," this fallacy occurs when the conclusion of an argument depends upon the claim that a certain event will set off a chain reaction, leading in the end to some undesirable consequence - yet there is not sufficient logical reason that the chain reaction should necessarily take place.
    Examples:

    Now we're talking about mercy killing. Tomorrow is will be AIDS victims, then the infirm and elderly, then the mentally ill. Before you know it we'll be killing everyone whose health care costs are too high.
    If we accept money from your parents, then they'll start wanting to have more input into our decisions. They'll start telling us what we can and cannot buy, and then it'll be how often we have to come and see them. Eventually, your mom will be redecorating our house and they'll be telling us how many children we can have!

  • Statistical correlation
    - This fallacy begins with the finding that two phenomena are related statistically. The more often A happens, the more often B happens. And that may very well be a fact. The fallacy occurs when one jumps to the conclusion that this statistical relationship necessarily implies a causal relationship (Therefore, A causes B). We can use statistics to help support an argument, but correlation does not prove causation.
    Examples:

    It's been shown that many more people freeze to death in areas where people wear heavy coats. Therefore, heavy coats cause people to freeze.
    People who spend a lot of time on their boats are 40% more likely to get skin cancer. Therefore, boats cause skin cancer.
    I've read that people who live near their parents are twice as likely to file for bankruptcy. We'll never get out of debt as long as we live near Mom!
4. False Appeal Fallacies
- These fallacies have to do with inappropriately appealing to an outside source or factor to make your argument sound stronger.
  • False appeal to authority
    - It is fairly common for people to cite authority figures or experts to back up a point of view. That can be a wise idea. The whole point of research is to find others with more expertise in an area than you have. The Surgeon General's report that cigarette smoking is hazardous to one's health would be an example of a legitimate reference to an authority. But sometimes people cite experts inappropriately. Perhaps the stated authority is not really an expert in that area, or the cited authority may indeed have expertise in that rea, but there might be some other reason to question the integrity of what he or she is saying.
    Examples:

    Brad Pitt is against the death penalty, so it must be wrong.
    The woman in the office next to mine at work said that this was a good time to invest in the stock market. We should borrow some money and buy some stocks.
    The psychiatrist testified that the defendant was insane when the crime was committed. However, the jury took into account that this is what the psychiatrist was paid to say.

  • False appeal to popularity
    - This is the fallacy of claiming that an idea is true because many people think it is, that an action is right because it is popular, or wrong because it is unpopular. Consider how common it is for people to change their views on an issue after seeing the results of a poll or survey. The desire to shape our thoughts and beliefs to conform to popular consensus is very powerful. Yet history provides many examples of situation in which the beliefs of the majority were wrong. No idea becomes true just because it's popular, and no action becomes moral or immoral simply because lots of people think it is.
    Examples:

    Of course the earth is flat; everybody knows that!
    Since most Americans are for the war, it must be the right thing to do.
    Seventy percent of U.S. citizens are in favor of the death penalty, so it must be morally right.
    Everyone at my tennis club seems to be over their heads in debt, and they don't seem to think it's a problem. Maybe we should quit worrying about it so much.
5. Appeal to Emotion
- This fallacy is used to manipular others into agreeing with a point of view by playing on their feelings rather than by appealing to logic and reason. Instead of arguing the facts of an issue, a writer might play upon the readers' negative feelings about such words as "terrorism," "evil," or "hate"; or their positive feelings about words like "God," "America," "family," "liberty," or "love." The arguer avoids any discussion of the merits or weaknesses of the idea under discussion and merely substitutes an emotional appeal.
Examples:

If you are a true American, if you care about democracy, if you care about traditional family values, vote for the Red, White & Blue Party's candidate.
Choosy mothers give their kids ACME-brand cheese.
My nephews and nieces are expecting us to spend a lot of money on their birthdays. We can't disappoint them. Think of how sad their faces will look on their special days if we don't come through for them. Think about how guilty we'll feel!

6. Inconsistency
- This is the fallacy of contradiction, and is a violation of one of the logic's most fundamental rules: the Principle of Noncontradiction. This logical rule tells us that no two opposite predicates can be true of the same thing at the same time. In daily life inconsistency might be a matter of saying one thing and doing another. Or perhaps you make the opposite statements to two different people, in an attempt to please them both. Sometimes we might find ourselves trying to believe two contradictory ideas. Inconsistency is also one of the most important fallacies in ethical decisions. Reason requires that we work out a harmony between our ethical beliefs and the way we live.
Examples:

On the first day, a politician tells an environmental group, "I'll support stronger emission standards." Speaking to auto industry executives the next day, she says, "If elected, I'll do whatever I can to lower emission standards."
If we're going to get out of debt, you've got to stop spending so much money on clothes. I still need to buy those new golf clubs, but all of this clothes shopping has to stop!

7. Straw Man
- This occurs when an arguer takes the opponent's argument and distorts it, takes it out of context, or exaggerates it so that it might be more easily attacked. The fallacious arguer then tries to use the distorted argument against the opponent to make him or her look wrong or ridiculous. The term is derived from "setting up" an opponent as a straw man, or scarecrow, and then knocking him down.
Examples:

One political candidate makes statements in favor of legalizing marijuana for medical purposes. Her opponent attacks her position in a speech, claiming, "She wants your children to be able to buy pot at the convenience store after school!"
A medical researcher argues in favor of genetic engineering as a possible cure for some hereditary illnesses. A critic accuses the researcher of trying to fulfill Hitler's dream of creating a master race of perfect humans.

8. Red Herring
- This argument is about distraction. The arguer introduces an irrelevant (but tempting) point to divert the reader's attention from the main issue. This term originates from the tactic used by escaped prisoners of dragging a strong-smelling fish across their trail to trick the tracking dogs into following the wrong scent.
Examples:

I appreciate your concerns about how much I've been drinking lately, but have you noticed how worn out your shoes look? Say, I hear there's a sale down at Shoeless!
Yes, I charged the lawnmower and maxed out another credit card, but that color you painted the living room clashes with the wallpaper. Have you looked at it closely?

9. Either/Or
- The argument tries to make others think they are in a logical trap, by suggesting that there are only two sides to an issue - one right, one wrong. The truth is that there are always more than two options or points of view in any situation or issue. It sometimes takes creative thinking to come up with other options, but they are there.
Examples:

If you don't support physician-assisted suicide, then you just don't care about sick people at all.
You're either with us or against us.
Either sell those golf clubs to pay off some of our debt, or you don't really love me.

10. Hasty Generalization
- This is the fallacy of stereotyping, caused primarily by poor inductive reasoning. A person sees a few examples or cases of something and stereotypes those findings out onto a larger group. This is probably how most of our prejudices originate. We make an illogical leap from a specific case to an overgeneralized rule without having enough reasons or examples to justify the claim.
Examples:

This morning's newspaper had three stories about high school students who were involved in drug dealing. Therefore, American teens are obviously nothing but druggies and pushers.
My mom couldn't handle money very well. Neither could my Aunt Kate. Now I see that you can't, either. Clearly, women can't handle money.

11. Two Wrongs Make A Right
- This fallacy occurs when we try to defend our own wrongdoing by pointing out similar behavior in others, usually to avoid taking responsibility for what we did wrong. It may be the first fallacy we learn as children. (But they did it, too!) And yet most of us still find ourselves falling back on this one from time to time as adults.
Examples:

OK, officer. I know I was going 55 miles per hour in a 35 mph zone. Buy did you see that guy on the motorcycle? He had to be doing 70! You should be out ticketing serious offenders like that.
It's those credit card companies that are really to blame. They knew we were having trouble making our monthly payments, yet they kept sending us application after application for new cards - all pre-approved! They wanted us to stay in debt to them forever. We may have been a little irresponsible, but what they did was worse.

12. Is/Ought Confusion
- The Is/Ought fallacy tries to argue for the legitimacy of an idea, practice, or trait, based only on the fact that the thing already is that way. The mistake rests in thinking that facts entail that things ought to be a certain way. However, there is no such logical entailment between facts and value judgments.
Examples:

That's the way we've always done it here, so it must be right!
This company has never given raises to employees who have been here less than a year. I don't care how much technology training you have; that's just how we do it here.
From the very beginning of our marriage, we have spent more than we've made. That's just the way we do things. I don't see any point in changing it now.

13. Questionable Claim
- This fallacy involves seriously dubious premises. It often occurs when we use statements that are so broad and general that they cannot withstand scrutiny. Other times, questionable claims contradict common sense or other claims we have good reason to believe. We ought to be suspicious when claims conflict with well-grounded knowledge. Words like all, every, never, none, and always can be clues to the presence of a questionable claim fallacy.
Examples:

Smoking is good for you!
All cheerleaders are airheads!
You never support anything I want to do!

14. Begging the Question
- This is also known as the fallacy of circularity. One "begs the question" when one assumes the point to be proven in an effort to prove it. That is, the arguer uses the conclusion of the argument as one of the premises in support of the same conclusion. This fallacy shortcuts the support that a conclusion must have and, thus, does not provide adequate reason for us to accept it. In a way, it is argumentative sleight of the hand.
Examples:

You shouldn't use illegal drugs because it is against the law to use them.
Taking steps to improve the environment is good for all humanity because we will all benefit when the environment is improved.
It is wrong for us to avoid paying our taxes because not paying out taxes just isn't right.
Last edited by eagerSnake on Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:46 am

Post by implosion »

Fallacy fallacy should be on this list.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:05 am

Post by eagerSnake »

What is the fallacy fallacy? Can you provide an original example of this?
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:47 am

Post by implosion »

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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:59 am

Post by eagerSnake »

I get it, "because you used a fallacy to support your argument, you must be wrong and your POV is false." That's most definitely a fallacy. Simply because one uses a fallacy, does not make them wrong. I think that one may tie into one of these other fallacies, though.

I find it difficult to choose the fallacies I am most prone to using, as I use them all when I feel it will support my side. There are times when each of these fallacies can be used effectively to win an argument when there is not enough evidence to support either side.

Pedit: I went with genetic fallacies, appeals to emotion, and red herrings, with straw mans being a 4th option if I had one.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:58 pm

Post by N »

I see someone's just discovered you can create polls on mafiascum
GTKAS

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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:25 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

Can we really? I'll have to look into that!
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:49 pm

Post by mykonian »

I think I dodge most of these, esspecially the ones that there are signal words for.

I think I have a habit of assuming intelligence which people can see as grating, I don't think it's ad hom per sé. Otherwise I'm quite careful about that one.
Strawmen are often implied when you only respond to a specific point in stead of the whole, is always a bit iffy. That one is tricky, and I'm no lawyer.
The logic ones, the appeals, the claims tend to annoy me when I encounter them and they rather light up from texts, really doubt I commit those regularly.
I do suspect I generalize a fair bit, facts I don't remember aren't facts worth remembering. So that one, probably.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:05 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

In post 7, mykonian wrote:I think I dodge most of these, esspecially the ones that there are signal words for.

I think I have a habit of assuming intelligence which people can see as grating, I don't think it's ad hom per sé. Otherwise I'm quite careful about that one.
Strawmen are often implied when you only respond to a specific point in stead of the whole, is always a bit iffy. That one is tricky, and I'm no lawyer.
The logic ones, the appeals, the claims tend to annoy me when I encounter them and they rather light up from texts, really doubt I commit those regularly.
I do suspect I generalize a fair bit, facts I don't remember aren't facts worth remembering. So that one, probably.
I think that our experience with mafia also helps avoid these, since using these fallacies is usually a death wish.

How could you avoid using these fallacies in the future?

Also I think the "fallacy fallacy" is a version of ad hom because it's essentially, "How can you believe anything he says? He's using fallacies!"
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:39 pm

Post by chamber »

I don't know if one of the listed encompasses it in someway, but confirmation bias is the one that I see most people (myself included) fall into.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:54 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

In post 9, chamber wrote:I don't know if one of the listed encompasses it in someway, but confirmation bias is the one that I see most people (myself included) fall into.
I might consider it ad hominem circumstantial since usually it entails villainizing everything they say because "they're scum;" saying they cannot be objective in their views because of their circumstances etc.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:58 pm

Post by mykonian »

In post 8, eagerSnake wrote:I think that our experience with mafia also helps avoid these, since using these fallacies is usually a death wish.

How could you avoid using these fallacies in the future?
I'm not sure if you read the intention of my post properly.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:06 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 9, chamber wrote:I don't know if one of the listed encompasses it in someway, but confirmation bias is the one that I see most people (myself included) fall into.
Its definitely the most common fallacy in mafia games.

I often times even saying "I am confirmation biasing here" without even actually rethinking my bias while mentioning the bias.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:06 pm

Post by chamber »

In post 10, eagerSnake wrote:
In post 9, chamber wrote:I don't know if one of the listed encompasses it in someway, but confirmation bias is the one that I see most people (myself included) fall into.
I might consider it ad hominem circumstantial since usually it entails villainizing everything they say because "they're scum;" saying they cannot be objective in their views because of their circumstances etc.
Not the kind I meant. You have your sources and use them, they have their sources and use them. Even when googling you choose when to stop checking more results "Oh the first one agreed with me? guess i"m right". "The first one disagrees, better check another, oh the next two agree? first one must have been bullshit and i'm right". Etc.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:16 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

In post 13, chamber wrote:
In post 10, eagerSnake wrote:
In post 9, chamber wrote:I don't know if one of the listed encompasses it in someway, but confirmation bias is the one that I see most people (myself included) fall into.
I might consider it ad hominem circumstantial since usually it entails villainizing everything they say because "they're scum;" saying they cannot be objective in their views because of their circumstances etc.
Not the kind I meant. You have your sources and use them, they have their sources and use them. Even when googling you choose when to stop checking more results "Oh the first one agreed with me? guess i"m right". "The first one disagrees, better check another, oh the next two agree? first one must have been bullshit and i'm right". Etc.
Oh, I think I see what you're saying. Why would you do this? How would you avoid this?
In post 11, mykonian wrote:
In post 8, eagerSnake wrote:I think that our experience with mafia also helps avoid these, since using these fallacies is usually a death wish.

How could you avoid using these fallacies in the future?
I'm not sure if you read the intention of my post properly.
Well if you're not sure then I'm definitely not sure.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:31 pm

Post by chamber »

laziness. It's taxing to thoroughly vet everything. Desire to be right. Thought that if 2 sources contradict, the right one is yours (which is the source of the matter isn't it).
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:07 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

In post 15, chamber wrote:laziness. It's taxing to thoroughly vet everything. Desire to be right. Thought that if 2 sources contradict, the right one is yours (which is the source of the matter isn't it).

So, what, when presented with a problem do you just come up with a theory based on prior knowledge and assume you're most likely right?

I wonder what the term is for this kind of reasoning.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:54 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

In post 15, chamber wrote:laziness. It's taxing to thoroughly vet everything. Desire to be right. Thought that if 2 sources contradict, the right one is yours (which is the source of the matter isn't it).
It's common now that I think about it. There's one person who is in a good position to make you believe pure bullshit. It's natural for you to believe anything they tell you, and you can get angry if someone says this person's a bullshitter.

This person, of course, is you.

Once we get a wrong idea, it can be hard to shake it. Unlearning bad info or false knowledge is difficult. Just look at some of the modern conspiracy theories people believe. A prime example is the birthplace of President Obama.

Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. Somehow an idea was started (probably by fellow Demo-pres hopeful Hillary Clinton) that he was born elsewhere. Once Obama won the primaries, Republicans picked up on the notion and claimed he was born in Kenya where his father was born. If he wasn't born in the US, he was ineligible to be US president.

In 2011 he released his short form birth certificate which showed he was born in Hawaii. This form should've settled it, right?

It didn't.

A couple of months later they released certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth (the "long form"). This form also showed he was born in Hawaii.

All this time, his original birth announcements from 1961 in the Honolulu Advertiser and Bulletin had been available to anyone who cared to look. The Advertiser even puts a photograph of its initial 1961 statement up on its website to show that the record was accurate and available.

Despite all that existing information, a later Gallup poll indicated that over 10 percent of adult Americans still thought President Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

The people who believed this conspiracy theory, "the Birthers," found that their fake version of history was somehow more real than the reality.

Initially, they were likely fed false info by seemingly reliable sources, including talk-radio or other famous Birthers. If this false info intrigued them, some basic internet searching could turn up scraps of info that they thought confirmed their suspicions about the president being born in Kenya.

Meanwhile, they ignored the mountains of info, including the two birth certificates, which showed he was born in Hawaii and was a legitimate US citizen.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:31 pm

Post by CooLDoG »

don't consider is/ought fallacy to exist.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:35 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

In post 18, CooLDoG wrote:don't consider is/ought fallacy to exist.
People at my work are always afraid of doing things differently. I've heard too many times the phrase "It's the way we've always done it so why change it now," or similar.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:06 am

Post by Accountant »

begging the question
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