2017 NFL Football

[racefan12]

If Romo's prime was 10 years earlier, he'd have worse stats than he has now. The passing game has changed so much in the last 10-15 years that you definitely can't compare Romo to Steve Young and I'd argue you can't even compare him to Warner (I don't think Warner deserves to be in the Hall of Fame anyway, but that's beside the point).

Don't believe me? Look at Troy Aikman's numbers. Romo had comparable or better stats, but who's going to argue that Romo was a better QB than Aikman? Aikman had better receivers and was the better QB, yet had worse career stats.

Half the QBs in the league today can put up numbers that would have been Hall-worthy 15-20 years ago simply by staying reasonably healthy for 10 years or so. They're not as good as those QBs were; they're simply playing in a different era.

[shaft.ed]

I think of the QBs you mention, Aikman is the overrated one not Warner or Romo

[T-Bone]

Aikman also had Emmitt Smith in a run-first offense.

[PJ.]

Yo, Passer rate isn't effected by era. neither is QBR.

@KMD, yeah, I totally forgot he had 3 years of late career TO, my bad, he only MOSTLY passed to nobody.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah. Witten was his favorite target then anyway. I feel like you're intentionally exaggarating with the Austin reference, but otherwise I agree with you.

[PJ.]

How does everyone feel about Terrell Davis being a hall of famer?

[shaft.ed]

merited
there are older HoFers that also had very short careers

[PJ.]

at Running back? I feel like this is because he had a 2000 yard season, but does that mean that CJ2K gets in too?

[shaft.ed]

Gale Sayers didn't have a lengthy career. Only two season rushing for more than 1,000

[ChrisOrmie]

NFL MVP, 2 Super Bowl rings, and a Super Bowl MVP... yeah TD deserves to be in the HoF.

[Kmd4390]

The "he won rings" arguement doesn't directly get used with RBs as often as with QBs for some reason, but it's the same idea. Playing on a championship team puts you in the spotlight.

[PJ.]

NFL MVP, 2 Super Bowl rings, and a Super Bowl MVP... yeah TD deserves to be in the HoF.

Why do we have to induct John Elway twice?

[ChrisOrmie]

NFL MVP, 2 Super Bowl rings, and a Super Bowl MVP... yeah TD deserves to be in the HoF.

Why do we have to induct John Elway twice?

Once as a player, once as a GM?

[PJ.]

Once for being great and once for giving Davis 2 rings

[Wraith]

Godspeed Dan Rooney

[Bella]

The "he won rings" arguement doesn't directly get used with RBs as often as with QBs for some reason, but it's the same idea. Playing on a championship team puts you in the spotlight.

Kevin Faulk won three Super Bowls rings, and not even the most biased of Patriot fans would say he belongs in the Hall of Fame because of that.

[Kmd4390]

No, but compare Davis with somebody with similar numbers and more people will say Davis belongs in the hall. It's not the only thing that factors in, but it definitely helps a player's case.

[PJ.]

But like...what numbers? Career TDs? He played in an era where that was more plentiful and still didn't surpass a guy like Brandon Jacobs who only started 49 games. If you prorate it out to 96 (the number of starts Shaun Alexander had) you get 74 or 26 short of Alexander. Y/a is 4.6, but that's about where most very good guys land. He has the same y/a as Ahman green. A little more than Alexander and Holmes. 2k season? CJ2K. Is he going in? Idk man...he's a weird spot and better guys could go ahead of him. His yds/g are very impressive but it's skewed in that he had 4 years of prime then basically never played again.

[Bella]

Comparing Cj2K to TD: CJ2K has 1,750 more rushing yards, almost double the receiving yards, one more fumble on like 600+ more touches and essentially the same yards per attempt (4.5 v 4.6) and total TDs (64 vs 65). Plus, his 2,000 yard season is arguably more impressive, since he did it on roughly 40 fewer touches and added another 500 yards from scrimmage in the passing game. All the while playing on offenses QBed by Kerry Collins, Vince Young, Old Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Locker, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith, Old Michael Vick, Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton, none of whom is exactly John Elway.

[PJ.]

Tbf though, cj2k has like 30 more starts and 20 less y/g...but I'm full agreement that neither should be HoF.

Edit: I just feel once you put TD in the hall you really start opening the flood gates at RB. There's a handful of guys that I would say are better than TD but not deserving of the hall but now they should all go in

[Bella]

CJ2K also played in an era in which the running back position is less important than it's ever been. Right now, it's hard to justify putting one in over the other. But CJ2K hasn't retired yet, so it's possible for him to play a while longer and break the 10k yard mark, which in my opinion would give him a superior case to TD. Hell, he's less than 500 yards away, if he stays healthy and catches on with a team as a #2 RB this season he could well pass it this season.

[PJ.]

Yeah, that'll help, but look at who's NOT in. Not in any particular order but all people I see ahead of TD that are currently HoF eligible: Priest Holmes(a better short career guy imo), Shaun Alexander, Edgerrin James, Corey Dillon, Fred Taylor, Jamal Lewis, Warrick Dunn. Ricky Williams (another short career guy I'd put over TD - also Ricky missed 1/2 his prime years).

Once CJ2K finis he's up, I'm assuming he'll still be behind at least half the guys mentioned above, and also have to wait in line behind Adrian Peterson(likely first ballot HoF), Steven Jackson(11,500 rushing yards, 69 tds before even considering his pretty solid receiving stats), and Frank Gore (as long as the wheels don't fall off completely and he meets his yearly avgs for the past 12 years he'll jump to 4th in all time rushing).

CJ2K will likely have to wait out LeSean McCoy and Matt Forte as well.

And there are plenty of question marks behind that: Demarco Murray could very well lock in a couple 13-14 hundred seasons in a row in Tennessee. Alfred Morris would need to leave Dallas in short order but he has 5000yds, but is in his year 29 season (he did mostly take last year off though). Bell, Ingram, and Martin all have loads of work to do but plenty of time to do it. Not to mention Zeke.

Lynch is also a wild card, especially if he unretires and runs for anything close to 1300 yds and 13 tds, which will shoot him into the 10k club AND give him 87 rushing tds. If he stays in Oakland for 2-3 years he could finish with 11000 yards and 100tds, which 100% guarantees him a spot imh(umble)o. I don't think he has enough if he stays retired though. Unless they give him TD love.

[PJ.]

Yeah, that'll help, but look at who's NOT in. Not in any particular order but all people I see ahead of TD that are currently HoF eligible: Priest Holmes(a better short career guy imo), Shaun Alexander, Edgerrin James, Corey Dillon, Fred Taylor, Jamal Lewis, Warrick Dunn. Ricky Williams (another short career guy I'd put over TD - also Ricky missed 1/2 his prime years).

Once CJ2K finishes up, I'm assuming he'll still be behind at least half the guys mentioned above, and also have to wait in line behind Adrian Peterson(likely first ballot HoF), Steven Jackson(11,500 rushing yards, 69 tds before even considering his pretty solid receiving stats), and Frank Gore (as long as the wheels don't fall off completely and he meets his yearly avgs for the past 12 years he'll jump to 4th in all time rushing).

CJ2K will likely have to wait out LeSean McCoy and Matt Forte as well.

And there are plenty of question marks behind that: Demarco Murray could very well lock in a couple 13-14 hundred seasons in a row in Tennessee. Alfred Morris would need to leave Dallas in short order but he has 5000yds, but is in his year 29 season (he did mostly take last year off though). Bell, Ingram, and Martin all have loads of work to do but plenty of time to do it. Not to mention Zeke.

Lynch is also a wild card, especially if he unretires and runs for anything close to 1300 yds and 13 tds, which will shoot him into the 10k club AND give him 87 rushing tds. If he stays in Oakland for 2-3 years he could finish with 11000 yards and 100tds, which 100% guarantees him a spot imh(umble)o. I don't think he has enough if he stays retired though. Unless they give him TD love.

I just don't see any reason to give it to TD when we seemingly already have a logjam at RB AND they need to get these receivers in as well. Isaac Bruce, Moss, TO. And you then you got Holt after that. And a whole host of playing/recently retired guys.

[Bella]

I wasn't saying CJ2K should get in. In my opinion, he's a borderline case at best, even if he does reach 10k. Just using him as an illustration as to why TD doesn't deserve it.

(Also, Jamaal Charles wants to know why you snubbed him...)

[PJ.]

Do I think Charles deserves over TD? Sure. Over CJ2K? No. Going into year 31, and gonna be on a snap limit, so I think his stats now are final. Are his stats now good enough? Not imo. But he does have a injury short career guy argument but no rings(unless you count every fantasy football championship he won in 2013)so it's rough no matter what crowd you're in.