Abolish the Two Party System

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:52 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

[insert rant about two party systems being mandated by first past the post here]
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:59 pm

Post by Narna »

Anarchy when?
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:09 pm

Post by James3 »

In post 0, -Grey- wrote:Politics in the US today are a tragic farce of democracy due to the zealotry of far right and far left wingers enjoying tremendous support which places little incentive on cooperation or compromise, leaving the moderates in both parties to carry all the weight for their respective party as they toil in the background with minimal recognition while the zealots espouse all the glories of their platform in the media with little, if any, acknowledgment of the need for anyone in Washington that doesn't share their affiliation.

It's political bigotry on both sides of the aisle, folks. It's ugly, it's hateful, it's counterproductive, and it's damaging to the morale of the country.

The solution to this detriment is to reach out to the moderates in both parties. Liberate them from the chains of their political oppressors, and offer them another way. A better way. A third mainstream party that espouses shared goals between the two existing major parties and compromise on the hot topic differences that divide our country today.

Leave the unyielding zealots in the obsolete dinosaurs that are the Republican and Democratic parties, and watch them flounder as they are no longer supported by the workhorses in Washington that do what needs to be done to effect meaningful change.
Ah, the myth of neutrality. In actual fact of course, a party that e.g. believed that people should be free to engage in socially harmful activities both in the privacy of their bedroom and on Wall Street, would still be just as "zealous" as anyone else.

Your post also suffers from a false assumption of equality between the two "extremes". A group of social elites who consider anyone who doesn't agree with whatever ridiculous innovations they came up with a few minutes ago to be subhumans not worthy of any consideration, simply cannot be reasoned with. There is no parity between such a group of self-righteous pricks and a bunch of ordinary people who don't want to lose their jobs to foreigners (which is what the "extreme" left and right mean in America).

I do agree with you though, that our democracy sucks, and that we should get rid of it.
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:50 pm

Post by Accountant »

@James3: Socially harmful? Can you elaborate?

Also, I think your description of the extreme right is very warped. When we talk about the extreme right, we speak of people like the KKK, neo-nazis, violent racists or alt-rightists, /pol/ and its Jew extermination thing, and so on.
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:01 pm

Post by James3 »

I was referring on the one hand to sexual immorality (e.g. promiscuity, contraception ,and homosexuality), and on the other hand to unjust economic practices (usury, starvation wages, etc.). I assumed that was clear.

It was half a joke. I assumed given context that the OP was referring to Trump supporters. In any case, there's also no parity between internet trolls and the aforementioned self-righteous pricks. The other groups you mentioned start to approach parity, although they've done far less evil than the modern left.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:09 pm

Post by Accountant »

In post 29, James3 wrote:I was referring on the one hand to sexual immorality (e.g. promiscuity, contraception ,and homosexuality), and on the other hand to unjust economic practices (usury, starvation wages, etc.). I assumed that was clear.
I don't think that promiscuity, contraception or homosexuality are immoral by any means, and loan sharks are already illegal. Thus, I have no issue with such acts being carried out.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:12 pm

Post by Accountant »

In post 29, James3 wrote:In any case, there's also no parity between internet trolls and the aforementioned self-righteous pricks. The other groups you mentioned start to approach parity, although they've done far less evil than the modern left.
In this case, I think being a prick and being a troll are indeed equal in parity. Indeed, there is a lot of overlap between the two.

However, I think that the violence that neo-nazis and the KKK(lynching blacks, for instance) have caused are more evil than merely being self-righteous. Thus, I disagree with your last statement.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:18 pm

Post by James3 »

In post 30, Accountant wrote:
In post 29, James3 wrote:I was referring on the one hand to sexual immorality (e.g. promiscuity, contraception ,and homosexuality), and on the other hand to unjust economic practices (usury, starvation wages, etc.). I assumed that was clear.
I don't think that promiscuity, contraception or homosexuality are immoral by any means, and loan sharks are already illegal. Thus, I have no issue with such acts being carried out.
It was just an example and consequently is somewhat besides the point, though it should be fairly clear by now that promiscuity et al. have socially deleterious effects.
In post 31, Accountant wrote:
In post 29, James3 wrote:In any case, there's also no parity between internet trolls and the aforementioned self-righteous pricks. The other groups you mentioned start to approach parity, although they've done far less evil than the modern left.
In this case, I think being a prick and being a troll are indeed equal in parity. Indeed, there is a lot of overlap between the two.

However, I think that the violence that neo-nazis and the KKK(lynching blacks, for instance) have caused are more evil than merely being self-righteous. Thus, I disagree with your last statement.
I suppose I wasn't clear. The reason that I ascribed such evil to left-elites isn't just because they are self-righteous pricks, it's because they've done untold evil in the world. The self-righteousness is pertinent as a cause.

People who make Holocaust jokes on 4chan aren't causing harm to anyone.
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:22 pm

Post by Accountant »

It's not clear to me or any of the promiscuous-and-proud-of-it users on this forum(by which I mean Natirasha), or any of the people who support unrestrictive laws regarding human sexual behavior.

What are the socially deleterious effects?

Furthermore, what is the untold evil you alluded to?
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:28 pm

Post by James3 »

In post 33, Accountant wrote:It's not clear to me or any of the promiscuous-and-proud-of-it users on this forum(by which I mean Natirasha), or any of the people who support unrestrictive laws regarding human sexual behavior.

What are the socially deleterious effects?
The destabilization of families for one. A society where people can get divorced is a society where people can't really get married. Children being raised without fathers is another closely related one. And of course the biggest one is the mass slaughter of children (Equality is a jealous goddess, and she demands many sacrifices).
Furthermore, what is the untold evil you alluded to?
See above. Also, the relentless effort to commit cultural genocide against whites is evil (and would be recognized as such universally if any other race were the target).
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:26 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

Well, this thread took a turn
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:17 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

#foeaccountant
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:36 am

Post by Drench »

actually no let's go back to talking about MMP that was more fun
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:02 am

Post by Kublai Khan »

In post 35, Not_Mafia wrote:Well, this thread took a turn
Always does when people learn about Accountant.

Anyways, yeah. Until we have a multiple winner method or instant runoff voting, we are stuck with 2 parties.

Oh, and those two parties aren't interested in changing the system.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:00 am

Post by Accountant »

Those mothers have a right to purge the invading elements fromtheir bodies if they so wish - hence this slaughter may be considered acceptable. The destabilization of families is fine, since families are not a good way to operate anyway. Marriage is not needed either.

I agree that cultural genocide is a bad idea, but I don't see such a thing being performed.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:28 am

Post by James3 »

In post 39, Accountant wrote:Those mothers have a right to purge the invading elements fromtheir bodies if they so wish - hence this slaughter may be considered acceptable. The destabilization of families is fine, since families are not a good way to operate anyway. Marriage is not needed either.
Why?
I agree that cultural genocide is a bad idea, but I don't see such a thing being performed.
Is it generally considered acceptable for nonwhites to have associations that only admit their own people? Is it generally considered acceptable for whites to do so?
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:50 am

Post by Accountant »

Because society revolves around people acting as individual, orderly agents fulfilling functions within the machine, not as clusters of units related by blood who all think the same and have their own, suspicious agendas.

No. No.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:02 am

Post by James3 »

In post 41, Accountant wrote:Because society revolves around people acting as individual, orderly agents fulfilling functions within the machine, not as clusters of units related by blood who all think the same and have their own, suspicious agendas.
If everyone acted in a completely individualist manner, the human race would die out as no children would survive to adulthood.
No. No.
I don't know what world you're living in, but there are plenty of organizations that admit only members of minorities. Few raise objections to it.
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:25 am

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In post 38, Kublai Khan wrote:Anyways, yeah. Until we have a multiple winner method or instant runoff voting, we are stuck with 2 parties.

Oh, and those two parties aren't interested in changing the system.
Doesn't the UK have a first-past-the-post system as well? They don't have a two-party system. I feel like the existing party infrastructure/use of a President instead of PM matters more than the electoral system itself.

Edit: Upon Googling, it turns out that the Labor/Conservative parties hold more power than I thought.
Part of the problem.
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:55 am

Post by Nahdia »

In post 38, Kublai Khan wrote:Anyways, yeah. Until we have a multiple winner method or instant runoff voting, we are stuck with 2 parties.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:56 am

Post by Nahdia »

If you're curious about what other voting systems look like, CGPGrey has a fairly easy to understand video series on youtube explaining some other systems & their advantages and disadvantages.
Basically, FPTP is really really terrible for democracy.
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:24 am

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i mean, big caveat, duverger's law really only works on the district level, that's why the uk allows multiple minor parties to survive
first-past-the-post is part of the problem, not the whole problem, not even the biggest problem (but it's still bad)
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:27 am

Post by theplague42 »

In post 34, James3 wrote:The destabilization of families for one. A society where people can get divorced is a society where people can't really get married. Children being raised without fathers is another closely related one. And of course the biggest one is the mass slaughter of children (Equality is a jealous goddess, and she demands many sacrifices).

See above. Also, the relentless effort to commit cultural genocide against whites is evil (and would be recognized as such universally if any other race were the target).
Lol what? I was going to say you're dog-whistling racism then I read the second part.

Actually wait that explains why we outlawed St. Patrick's Day.
Part of the problem.
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:41 am

Post by James3 »

In post 47, theplague42 wrote:
In post 34, James3 wrote:The destabilization of families for one. A society where people can get divorced is a society where people can't really get married. Children being raised without fathers is another closely related one. And of course the biggest one is the mass slaughter of children (Equality is a jealous goddess, and she demands many sacrifices).

See above. Also, the relentless effort to commit cultural genocide against whites is evil (and would be recognized as such universally if any other race were the target).
Lol what? I was going to say you're dog-whistling racism then I read the second part.

Actually wait that explains why we outlawed St. Patrick's Day.
Housing antidiscrimination laws were very blatantly cultural genocide against white ethnic minorities (Irish, Germans, etc.). Now you can't even mention that there's a Church nearby in a real estate ad.

St. Patrick's Day is widely acknowledged, and therefore doesn't count. Even in the deep south (where there are almost no Catholics) wearing green on that day is a thing.
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:19 pm

Post by KuroiXHF »

Be careful, -Grey-. Last time I mentioned the two-party system and third party politics, a discussion mod accused me of drinking too much Kool Aid.
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