UK Pol - #independenceday

[Randomnamechange]

fuck sorry missed that :/

[shaft.ed]

It's almost like no one wants to govern and both sides are trying to lose the election

[zoraster]

I kind of wonder if the Tories got complacent so they thought "oh hey. We're going to win no matter what. Let's throw all our least popular wishes into the manifesto so we can move forward on them without anyone being able to complain that we didn't warn them."

[Randomnamechange]

Corbyn's manifesto was pretty great. The fact that it was extremely optimistic and more realistic than the Tory manifesto looks promising. While it is still a tiny chance that the Tories lose, the lead is dimishing and it might not be as much of a whitewash as predicted

[Max]

This has been the craziest week of politics I have ever seen.

[Not_Mafia]

Oh look Tories tried to fuck over the disabled again, so shocked

[Max]

The Manchester bombing suspended campaigning until further notice. The mood is solemn in Bury today, and even though we're about 10 miles north, people of Bury feel Mancunian first and foremost.

People are talking to each other, people are sad, but asides from a quiet sense of inconvenience about Victoria train station closing, (replacement bus services suck) Manchester is getting on with things.

The sense of community in Manchester is often very tangible, and for a city of 2.5m people there's a real sense of pride in the city. (Even if we always complain about how much it sucks, we know it's better than Birmingham and London, so). And on Facebook I talked about the IRA bombing in 1996, Manchester is a real community and we need more than a shitty nailbomb to destroy our faith in how wonderful a place it is to live.

I know plenty of people who were in the city centre at the time, a couple have said that it did bring a close to their night out (in the Printworks, an entertainment complex that used to be home of the Manchester Guardians printing press, situated a five minute walk from the arena). Today, I have heard word that the Manchester Arndale shopping centre was evacuated, but that it was a false alarm. So people are a little on edge.

There's been an arrest in South Manchester, rumour being that there was a controlled explosion and a man marched out at gun point, but these are unconfirmed reports. There's a vigil tonight in the city centre that's going to be led by our new Mayor, Andy Burnham, but I already had plans so won't be attending.

As for the terror attack, it didn't succeed, as Manchester isn't afraid.

But it absolutely breaks my heart that anyone could decide to go and bomb a concert full of young girls. The youngest victim named is only eight.

[Not_Mafia]

Regards from Liverpool, for the first time in my life terrorism is now an actual threat and concern rather than something existential

[Albert B. Rampage]

<Image edited out>

[Not_Mafia]

Your point being?

[Nexus]

snip

This is not Islam. Not a true representation of Islam.

This is:



This is

Not the hateful rhetoric that IS want. The rhetoric that you perpetuate when you post their statements. They want publicity.

We are not afraid. We will never be afraid. Hate will not win.

[Max]

Apparently they haven't given the details they usually give to authenticate the attacks (e.g. operational details and the name of the attacker) so UK intelligence doesn't believe them.

IS have claimed responsibilities for attacks that weren't them before, the one in London for example where there has been no corroboration of evidence that they were involved at all.

[Nexus]

Or the Dortmund one.

[Max]

Damned millenials obsessed with social media coverage.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Apparently they haven't given the details they usually give to authenticate the attacks (e.g. operational details and the name of the attacker) so UK intelligence doesn't believe them.

IS have claimed responsibilities for attacks that weren't them before, the one in London for example where there has been no corroboration of evidence that they were involved at all.

It might not have been planned by ISIS, but we know it was perpetrated by 23-year old UK born Salman Abedi.

[Max]

Which btw was reckless of the US to leak against the UK's wishes.

[Albert B. Rampage]

snip

This is not Islam. Not a true representation of Islam.

This is:



This is

Not the hateful rhetoric that IS want. The rhetoric that you perpetuate when you post their statements. They want publicity.

We are not afraid. We will never be afraid. Hate will not win.

You can come out and say the same thing after every attack but what's going to change? Nothing. More attacks. More deaths. More solidarity, pray for X, and "we arent afraid" and no policy change, no one ends up more secure. You're just burying your head in the sand and pretending there aren't millions of people who want to murder you.

[Nexus]

I'm going to ask you nicely, ABR. Nobody wants your hateful rhetoric in this thread. We are aware that it was perpetrated by someone who has a Libyan background. We are aware that he is probably Muslim. We are aware that ISIS will claim responsibility for the attack. We are aware that his twisted idea of what Islam is will probably have caused his actions. However, we are also aware that not all Muslims are extremists, just like not all Trump supporters are cunts, or that not all Tories want disabled people to die. Because one person doesn't make all people the same.

Remember those who helped. Remember the police officers, ambulance drivers, volunteers who ran in to the building to save people who were injured. Remember the homeless man who cradled a dying woman so as she didn't spend her last moments alone. Remember the unfortunate victims. Don't give in to hate. That's what they want.

[Nexus]

Fuck, why didn't we ban all Irish people from the country when the IRA killed people in Manchester 22 years ago? If only it was that simple.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't give a fuck, I've been demonized and insulted for two years for wanting a reduction in refugees from arab countries from 100,000 to 10,000, but you don't hate our common enemy as much as you hate me and it disgusts me. It's delusional to think I'm the villain when I'm not the one who wants to destroy western civilization. But you're incapable of directing your hate towards the actual terrorists. I have never, ever said anything about "all muslims", you're making a strawman argument. You just love to hate anyone who disagrees with you.

[Mac]

All Christians are members of the KKK... etc. Exactly the kind of shit storm IS want to kick up.

[Nexus]

He was a British citizen, dude. Reduction in refugees would've made zero difference. The 7/7 bombers were British born too.

The IRA have killed many people in the UK. We don't hate the Irish.

I'm not saying that extremism doesn't need combatting. I'm saying that giving them publicity and giving them what they want is bad. There is a major education needed, but that's not just Islamic extremism. One of our sitting MPs was killed by a white right wing extremist last year.

I don't hate you. I dislike your arguments.

[Max]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/many- ... ttacks-uk/

The UK is a super safe country for terrorism. It's not an islam problem, because compared to the population they take up, they're way less lethal than the Irish.

So basically either Islamist terrorists are REALLY bad at being terrorists compared to the Irish. Or they're not really a threat. Like, a bad year for knife crimes would make a bigger difference to the uk than a successful terror attack.

On a policy level, you focus on the things that make a difference.

Like, what evidence do you have that these refugees are more dangerous than U.S. or UK Citizens?

[chamber]

I'm not the one who wants to destroy western civilization.

Not in the same way.

[Nexus]

The BBC understands the 22-year-old was Manchester born and from a family of Libyan origin.

Three of the four 7/7 bombers were born in Yorkshire. One was born in Jamaica.