Scummers You Miss (Ahh, the memories)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Open 463: Black Flag Nightless I think really demonstrates how different playstyles can work together to be deadly for the scum. CES, Thor, Empire, Tammy, Vi, Tierce, Regfan, Faraday etc all have different playstyles that allowed us to work together in a beautiful harmony without anyone becoming obnoxious or too overbearing.

[chamber]

I've talked for probably 10 years about new players copying the surface style of what they see be successful but not copying any of the substance underneath it. It's a problem outside of mafia too.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Cargo Cult Mafia?

[zakk]

I've talked for probably 10 years about new players copying the surface style of what they see be successful but not copying any of the substance underneath it. It's a problem outside of mafia too.

Yes, this is exactly the problem! They copy the style without understanding the substance. And then the next player who copies them, gets an even more exaggerated style, and even less substance. And things get worse.

I feel like to mitigate this, there needs to be some kind of formal coaching system developed (*other* than playing in hydras with newbies, or just lynching people who play like idiots, because that ruins the fun of things, takes longer, and/or forces others to have to put up with them in an undesirable state for longer).

I imagine this would involve breaking the cardinal rule of "no talking about ongoing games" though: there would be a private topic like a hydra topic, but which lasted across multiple games (without the coach ever posting for the student in public, so NOT a hydra), perhaps it could last for X number of months, or an indefinite amount of time. There could be both specific and general coaching with regards to game load, game play, etc., and it could all be sanctioned as a project to help better site meta.

Maybe I'll delineate this further and submit a proposal in the future. It's probably been tried before. I imagine the number of people wanting coaching would for outnumber the people who could coach, or the people who others would *want* to be coached by. Perhaps I'll come up with a system for matching coaches and students, perhaps even with some kind of payment system like real tutoring. Maybe a minor percentage could go to the site, and diff coaches could have diff rates? Idk. Sounds complicated. I'm sure it'd be pro bono at first.

[vonflare]

it could all be sanctioned as a project to help better site meta.

your definition of 'better site meta' can be different from someone else's. I'm sure someone thinks the current meta is good, as well.

Plus, if we start enforcing a specific meta through coaching, that raises new problems related to trust tells like "well the recommended meta for the role this person claimed is XXX but he did YYY so he's obviously scum"

[chamber]

People eventually find there own way, even if the copying is bad. It's not like it keeps degrading from generation to generation or everyone who was from say 3 years ago, would be incomparably bad to people from my generation, and that's just not true.

[kuribo]

it could all be sanctioned as a project to help better site meta.

your definition of 'better site meta' can be different from someone else's. I'm sure someone thinks the current meta is good, as well.

Plus, if we start enforcing a specific meta through coaching, that raises new problems related to trust tells like "well the recommended meta for the role this person claimed is XXX but he did YYY so he's obviously scum"

And then you wind up with EpicMafia, where not following the specific known strategies results in you being reported for gamethrowing

[Firebringer]

And then you wind up with EpicMafia, where not following the specific known strategies results in you being reported for gamethrowing

Theres users who report users here for not following their preferred strategy.

[xRECKONERx]

I just think that the current playstyle has lead to fatigue because nobody wants to read that many pages. Even if it's all just one word posts, the sheer amount of pages makes it feel overwhelming.

I'd support a "no back to back posting" rule.

[chamber]

I'd support things like that coming from game mods more than a site wide thing.

[Firebringer]

As a mod I am more in favor of post limits per game day so people don't spam the thread.
Something high enough so its not a huge limitation but still low enough were a spamtastic poster conserves what they say to more of essentials.

[chamber]

I think a post limit is a terrible idea, but I support game mods doing terrible things as long as they are well advertised.

[xRECKONERx]

yeah post limit is bad imo

i think like even just installing a flood timer on mafia subforums so people can't spam post? might help

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

So I was looking at another forum the other day and idk how hard or if impossible to implement on this board, but in the other one they had the board automatically merge double/triple/etc posts by the same person all into one post.

[Firebringer]

I have tried putting place "don't do back to back posting" 90% of the players ignored the game to just complain for like 5 pages of why that was a shit thing to put in game.

[chamber]

It gives space for the other 10%.

[zoraster]

I just think that the current playstyle has lead to fatigue because nobody wants to read that many pages. Even if it's all just one word posts, the sheer amount of pages makes it feel overwhelming.

I'd support a "no back to back posting" rule.

We've actually been talking about this sort of stuff backstage for a while. It's probably time to bring it out from the shadows in MD, so I'll work on that soon. The problem I have is that even for the thoughtful listmods I have, it's hard sometimes for people to separate golden days nostalgia from actual problems facing the site. Like... ever since joining people have complained about the new guard coming in and ruining things when a huge portion is just that lots of people just get tired of playing a game they used to love and misattribute the cause of their inability to get into the game like they used to. And that's okay on an individual basis, but it's problematic when talking about potential top-down solutions (whether game mod or list mod enforced).

To be clear, I'm not talking specifically about a "no back to back posting" rule, but rather things that look at the increase in the rate of posting that potentially causes higher replacement rates, gets rid of newbies and vets alike, and so forth.

[Untrod Tripod]

get off my lawn, zor

[Gammagooey]

yeah post limit is bad imo

i think like even just installing a flood timer on mafia subforums so people can't spam post? might help

I'd be pretty happy with that

I'm probably biased towards thinking a bunch of short posts are fine given that tends to be my playstyle, but seeing most of a page being taken up by 3-4 players all quotewalling each other tends to sap my will to live more than anything else in mafia, whereas a bunch of short spammy posts make the pagecount look intimidating but tends to be pretty easy to actually read through until you get into really big playercount games.

I mean really the best way to fix the problem is players self-policing themselves and keeping in mind that if they throw every stray thought they have into the game it'll be a miserable mess for other players to read, but thoughts of 'I/We can make the game better by doing this' tends to go out the window once the start of the game passes by.

[zakk]

It's not a whole bunch of posts that kills me, it's a whole bunch of *content* in those posts.

Since I play on my phone a lot, back to back to back posting is somewhat necessary for me, barring a bunch of horrifically tedious copy pasting, which is nontrivially time and labor intensive.

I don't think I would support a posting limit, but I think merging consecutive posts is a must-have. Is it worth spending the time trying to implement it on phpBB tho? Debatable

[shaft.ed]

so how much of this is player based and how much of this is technology based
does the shift correlate with more people playing on their phones?

[zakk]

It actually might. Pre-2007 phones were pretty crappy for web browsing.

[Kmd4390]

so how much of this is player based and how much of this is technology based
does the shift correlate with more people playing on their phones?

I don't feel like I play to the new style, but my posting is probably a little less wordy and definitely less quotes than when I had a computer. I wouldn't be surprised if it contributes. But at the same time, I don't think a lot of people use their phone as their only device for mafia like I do. I still see posts to the effect of "I'll give more content when I'm not on my phone". It's definitely an interesting theory and I'm curious how much of a role it plays now.

[shaft.ed]

I mean I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than play a game of forum mafia on a smartphone
If I were doing it, I could totally understand quoting whole posts without trimming them and short replies

[Faraday]

Basically, given the option, you should be Faraday.

ya im a good guy