Pi is a lie?

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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 4:13 am

Post by eagerSnake »

I did read some things about einsteins theory of relativity being thrown out as a fallacy (and possibly that he knew it was one). I need to fact check it more myself, and it's a bit off-topic, but did you hear about this and can you confirm or deny it?

Assuming this is true, it seems we almost continuously disprove things that we were universally confident about.

I could then infer the proofs re ratio between a circles circumference and diameter being irrational are simply based on measurements that may have been off by even just 1 of these infinitesimal units, skewing the computations causing the irrationality.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 4:29 am

Post by Who »

In post 75, eagerSnake wrote:I did read some things about einsteins theory of relativity being thrown out as a fallacy (and possibly that he knew it was one). I need to fact check it more myself, and it's a bit off-topic, but did you hear about this and can you confirm or deny it?
Relativity is currently the most accurate way we have of predicting how things behave on a large scale. It is not based on a fallacy. You may be thinking of when Einstein said "God does not play dice with the universe". He was wrong about that. Quantum Mechanics is indeed a thing. Currently we have no grand unified theory which explains how things work on both a large scale and a small scale. We are aware of this and have been since the theories came out.

Even if it were wrong though, that's physics. There are two main differences between science and math:
1. Science requires observations, which are prone to error and imperfection.
2. Scientists are sloppy and don't mathematically prove things. They assume that they are allowed to do the things they want,
eagerSnake wrote:I could then infer the proofs re ratio between a circles circumference and diameter being irrational are simply based on measurements that may have been off by even just 1 of these infinitesimal units, skewing the computations causing the irrationality.
The proof of the irrationality of pi requires no observations. You might say "Well it's complicated, maybe it has an error I can't find". Go look at the proof of the irrationality of sqrt2, where does that go wrong?
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 4:52 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Intriguing. I guess, at this point, I would have to "debunk the Pythagorean Theorum" to show that sure, sqrt2 is irrational, but that there is no proof that this distance could exist.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 5:00 am

Post by Who »

Proofs of the pythagorean theorem are also easy to find and simple enough to follow.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 5:01 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Yeah, I'm looking into them now and then seeing if there is any leaps in logic, such as assuming the theorum to be true first.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 5:02 am

Post by chamber »

Questioning things is fine. Questioning them only because they don't conform to your common sense isn't. That's the real trap Einstein fell into.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 5:04 am

Post by Who »

In post 80, chamber wrote:Questioning things is fine. Questioning them only because they don't conform to your common sense isn't. That's the real trap Einstein fell into.
I mean, that's fine too provided you are willing to recognize that your common sense is wrong.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2017 5:08 am

Post by chamber »

I mean, my common sense agrees with Einsteins when it comes to quantum mechanics so~.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 9:50 am

Post by inte »

In post 77, eagerSnake wrote:Intriguing. I guess, at this point, I would have to "debunk the Pythagorean Theorum" to show that sure, sqrt2 is irrational, but that there is no proof that this distance could exist.
our cosmos is proof
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 9:53 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Do you believe the universe is infinite?
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 9:56 am

Post by Charles510 »

The multiverse contains an infinite number of universes, but I believe this universe is finite.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 9:59 am

Post by eagerSnake »

So if I travel in a straight line in one direction, I would eventually return to original location; much like flying around the earth or any other planet?
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 10:03 am

Post by inte »

In post 86, eagerSnake wrote:So if I travel in a straight line in one direction, I would eventually return to original location; much like flying around the earth or any other planet?
infinite/finite doesn't mean spherical
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 10:08 am

Post by Davsto »

yo mamma is infinite and spherical
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 10:15 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Then what happens when I reach the end of the finite universe?
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 10:16 am

Post by Davsto »

only yo mamma is left
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 10:19 am

Post by Charles510 »

Imagine the surface of a sphere. Go to any point on the sphere, but you will never reach the end. The sphere is finite but has no end, just like the universe.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 10:20 am

Post by inte »

In post 89, eagerSnake wrote:Then what happens when I reach the end of the finite universe?
you stop
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 10:21 am

Post by chamber »

In post 91, Charles510 wrote:Imagine the surface of a sphere. Go to any point on the sphere, but you will never reach the end. The sphere is finite but has no end, just like the universe.
Although not disproven, the hypersphere would need to be unbelievably large. space in the observable universe is effectively flat.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 3:58 pm

Post by eagerSnake »

Or is it?
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 4:10 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

I vaguely remember a quote somewhere that said in a way, imaginary numbers are more "real" than irrational numbers. I should dig it up for this thread.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2017 4:41 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 11, eagerSnake wrote:And you believe what, that an irrational distance is a real thing?
So you believe that 1 meter is somehow "special" and fundamental to the universe?
or is really all length need to be whole numbers (there are no rational lengths) just whole numbers of plank lengths.

Also what specifically was it you were thinking was the whole number for the diamters of the various hydrogen orbitals.
or for that matter what was the length of the hypotenuse right angled triangle isosceles triangle with side length of 1.

not only but also.

I have different distance measurement system, and in mine every measure that was rational in metric is now irrational. (I measure everything in multiples of that hypotenuse above.)

I also have different number system. My number system is neither base 2 nor 10 nor even 16, nor any other whole number.

My number base is pi.

Circles of radius 1 have circumference 20.

Ten(the decimal one) ,in base pie is an infinitely long pimal.

Cake is the lie, not pi.

Heaven and earth, Horatio.
In post 89, eagerSnake wrote:Then what happens when I reach the end of the finite universe?
You sneak up behind the former yourself and say boo!
If you want to do your head in wonder what would happen if this universe *is* really a Rienman space where you have to rotate 720 degrees to get *this you* back to where you started.
I suggest leaving breadcrumbs if you start thinking about that as you might want to be sure it was still the same you when here when you stopped thinking about it..
alternatively: A GEB: Push think pop might be safer.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:34 am

Post by ConManMick »

Spoiler: My contribution to this thread
"As everyone knows there is a special guardian angel for drunkards and lovers"
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:37 pm

Post by Davsto »

pi isn't the only thing that's irrationally long
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:16 pm

Post by ConManMick »

In post 98, Davsto wrote:pi isn't the only thing that's irrationally long
Well
hellllllooooooo
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