Star Wars (Spoilers)

[DirtyDishSoap]

1. The opening scene with Hux and the Resistance leaving the planet, you can clearly see the only ship leaving the planet. Why didn't Hux shoot the ONLY ship that's leaving the planet? They can scan for life on the planet and ships, so they have the ability to know, even then from a tactical point, why shoot the base that is now empty, and is immobile vs a mobile target containing all the Resistance leadership? Is Hux incompetent? That whole point didn't make sense.

2. The Dreadnought is the worst designed ship ever. It doesn't have shields for whatever reason. It's surface weapons can't hit Poe because "He's too small and too close." ???? Wut...The Death Star had this capability and that is way bigger than the Dreadnought, so how does this glaring flaw escape The First Orders notice? This ship blows.

3. The bombers from the Resistance are equally worse. How in the world are they this fragile, like tissue paper, and travel at the speed of smell. I mean...One minute they aren't there but then it cuts in and they are, but when we see them their slow as fuck, and half a tie fighter crashes into one and destroys (2 or 3?) other bombers?

4. How is the laws of space is ignored in this? Sound and lasers aside, but the fact that people can operate in open space like the gal in the bombers hanger with no visual gate without losing oxygen or instantly freezing to death is just a slap in the face to Sci-Fi fans. After the Marry Poppins scene, they let in Leia, FROM OPEN SPACE and nothing is instantly sucked out, no loss of oxygen, nothing. Like...Wtf? It's like Rian doesn't understand how space works.
5. Why did they throw away Ren's primary motivation set up in the Force Awakens? Like...Snoke instantly berates Ren and tells him his mask is stupid, when previously he was perfectly okay with it because he wanted to be like Vader...So why toss this subplot out?

6. Where did the Knights of Ren go?

7. Speaking of Hux's incompetence, why didn't Hux order one of the Star Destroyers to just intercept the Resistance by going into light speed ahead of them? Like...This is a rather big plot hole and this is the only thing keeping the film going on at this point. How can you be this bad at being a General?

8. Whats the point of Finn and Rose in this film? Their entire subplot doesn't advance the overall plot at all. You can remove this section of the film and nothing changes at all. Even then, their plan hinges on the fact that there is only ONE tracker. And why is there only one to begin with? How does Finn even know about it when he was stationed on the Star Killer base? How does he know it's a tracker to begin with when he's just a janitor? What the hell is going on in this film?

9. Why is Luke's character just butchered in this? Like...Everything he learned in the trilogy is just tossed out for no readily reason. He basically wants to kill his nephew because he "saw something that could be" and goes to MURDER HIM IN HIS SLEEP! You're telling me, this guy goes to redeem someone thats Hitler incarnate who murders children and committed genocide, but when he see's a obscure future, he goes to murder him? Wtf? "Snoke already got him." Sidious had Vader you twat, that didn't stop you before!
One of the most optimistic characters is turned into this lurch. Mark Hamill over a string of interviews had expressed why he didn't like this direction.
Another thing - "How did you find me." There's a God damn map that tells everyone where you are!

10. Snoke was tossed away for no reason. He was a plot device for Ren, and that's it. A force user that seemed more powerful than Sidious was just killed off without any character development. Like...Why!? An all powerful character can't see subtle twitches from Ren because ?????? Like...Sidious wasn't even this overtly stupid.

11. Captain Phasma is worse than Boba Fett. I don't understand the boner for these two characters but they suck.

12. General Holdo is just as worse as Hux. She berates her top pilot and refuses to tell anyone of her plan and the film sets her up as a villain, only to toss that away and have her sacrafice herself as sort of a "redemption." She sets up this whole tense moment where Poe is questioning her leadership, rightfully so, and then there's the eventual mutiny because Poe suspects that Holdo is just going to get them all killed, which her plan nearly does anyways. If Holdo actually told Poe of her plan, none of this would have happened because the moment Leia tells Poe the plan he basically says "Oh, that might work!" Like fuck...Holdo sucks so hard.

13. Rey is a Mary Sue, look up the term if you're unfamiliar with it. She's a terrible character, unlikeable and unrelatable in every sense. Compare strong female leads in the past like Ripley from Alien. She has the build up to be a strong protagonist and not just "great at everything" from the start. Completely amazing build up. Rey is just tossed in and is amazing at everything she does from the get go, and everyone likes her. She's even more proficient in the force than Luke is for no discernable reason in a very short span of time. None of this makes sense!

14. How did Luke grab a physical object (The dice), project himself lightyears away, give that object to Leia, only to disappear later? And then die anyways like a bad flop? Like...Even the film doesn't follow it's own rules.

15. Speaking of Dice, why did Luke have almost no reaction to Hans death when he learns of it? It's as if he doesn't give a shit about anyone. Why did they butcher Luke?!

16. The bombs were a garbage concept. They ignored the laws of space, and the film explains for no reason why they just flopped right onto the Dreadnought. Were they magnetic? Well that would explain the no shields and shitty concept of the ship, but why build a like that in the first place?! The Y-Bombers were waaaaay better, why get rid of those ships?!

I'll think of more later, I know I'm missing more.

Haven't really spell checked this, sorry.

[Kublai Khan]

Oh wow. Do a breakdown of all the logical inconsistencies in "Empire Strikes Back" next!

[DirtyDishSoap]

You're welcome to if you want.

Listen - at the end of the day, you like whatever film you want, good or bad. I like Hostage, the film sucks, but it's fun for me to watch. Battle for Los Angeles had pretty much 0 plot, but it was a fun film to watch.

I'm a fan of Star Wars though, I enjoy the lore and story and the characters, but the newest iteration is just...terrible. If you're new to the series, you'll enjoy it, it's fun, my girlfriend enjoys it even though she never watched the original trilogy and probably won't.
I'm just tired of seeing the praise this film is getting when from an actual cinema standpoint, it sucks.

[TwoInAMillion]

Pretty much any Star Wars movie, or any sci fi movie for that matter, can be picked apart. It's called suspension of disbelief. Star Wars is about having a good time for 2 hours, not about having an academy award winning screenplay. A lot of the OT fans don't like TLJ because it's different from the other movies, unlike TFA which was a lot like the OT. They just need to get over it.

[xRECKONERx]

i loved ANH, ESB, and TFA

i like TFA SPECIFICALLY in the context of the prequel trilogy

i dont like TLJ because it's shit at character development and plugs in too much Marvel-style humor and none of the moments lands
i dont like TLJ because it feels like nothing happens and we're at the same place we would be if the movie had never happened (or made obvious conclusions based on TFA)

btw the vast majority of the fandom hated TFA because it was a "retread". the same people that hated it for being a retread tend to be the people that like TLJ for being new & original

[chamber]

btw the vast majority of the fandom hated TFA because it was a "retread". the same people that hated it for being a retread tend to be the people that like TLJ for being new & original

I wouldn't say I hated TFA, but yeah, this is basically me otherwise.

[Vijarada]

I completely agree with what Reck has to say.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Pretty much any Star Wars movie, or any sci fi movie for that matter, can be picked apart. It's called suspension of disbelief. Star Wars is about having a good time for 2 hours, not about having an academy award winning screenplay. A lot of the OT fans don't like TLJ because it's different from the other movies, unlike TFA which was a lot like the OT. They just need to get over it.

Ok...So what films exactly can you break down on why they don't work? Interstellar for example. Amazing all around sci-fi film. The music, the plot, the characters, this was a great sci fi film. I'm not asking for something arbitrary like "There's no such thing as space wizards!" Point out some glaring plot holes in the movie(s), or answer the ones I already pointed out in the above post.

Star Wars - Space samurai mixed with a wild west basically, my belief is already suspended but it's not going to be outright broken if the plot is inconsistent and broken and it doesn't follow it's already established rules. I can't immerse myself in a film like The Last Jedi when it's blatantly taking a dump on every film before it, including The Force Awakens. Does that make sense on why I hate this movie?

I don't get it, I expressed why I didn't like this film, and broke it down point by point as to why it doesn't make sense or why it makes it bad. You originally defended it by trying to point out why so and so is good, but the moment I show you these glaring plot holes or overall weak characters it's "well, every Star Wars and sci fi movie can be picked apart." Uh...? The movie is open to criticism. The Black Panther is open to criticism. Every movie should rightfully be criticized on how or why they are bad films or what the films are specifically lacking in. The Last Jedi had a decent soundtrack. Not anything I'd write home to mom about, but the musical scores were solid. The visuals were great, best in the series. And that's pretty much where my praise of it ends.

So no, I'm not going to get over it. As I said, I'm a fan of Star Wars, but I'm not going to blindly defend terrible films just because the name "Star Wars" is in it or because Disney took the reigns on the franchise.

[Fluminator]

Suspension of disbelief is really hard when the movie itself is internally inconsistent.

I think the star wars movies have become like Marvel now with Solo coming out. Movie after movie coming out just to make money. Not anything wrong with that but there's no longer any excitement for me about star wars movies. I think I'm done.

I was done with Marvel too but I might go back to it because I heard a lot of the recent ones are great. Maybe Star Wars will find it's groove again too.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I think The Black Panther was pretty bad, but everyone put this movie on a pedestal before it's release for...Culture reasons? I'm not going to get into it, it's just stupid.
I haven't seen Infinity War but I heard that was bad from a few friends and I'm not sure about Thor Ragnarok.

I'm seeing a trend, where in the video game industry, you have these publishers who buy out developer companies and turn them into a subsidiary, and then tell these subsidiaries they have a deadline to meet every year and to pump out incoherent, buggy messes until people get fed up with seeing those games and then the company gets absorbed. Think the film industry, or at least Disney, is mimicking this model.

[xRECKONERx]

Black Panther was fantastic, I dunno. Loved how small and personal the story felt as opposed to OMG BIG LASER IN THE SKY that we get all the time. Loved the performances. Loved the setting. It was just a breath of fresh air.

I loved Ragnarok when I saw it. I still have a positive opinion on it but i'm not quite as hyped on it as I was when I saw it.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Ehhh, another time I'll tackle that film. The action was fun to watch but I just didn't really get the plot of the movie or how it tied itself to Civil War.

[Kublai Khan]

Hey Dish Soap.. How old are you? You can give an approximation if you want.

I only ask because I think there's general an age where nostalgia kinda solidifies. Everything released during your transformative years is placed on a pedestal and anything newer (especially sequels and remakes) are viewed with a negative bias. And I'm kinda wondering if maybe you're approaching that.

Have you felt the same way about new music from your favorite artist or new videogames, etc.?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Don't think my age has to do with much of anything or how I form my opinions but 28.

As for negative bias towards sequels and what have you, I don't think that's the case really...I enjoy the Witcher series, all three of them. The first one had some stale gameplay but the other 2 were phenomenal in just about everything. Metal Gear Solid I think is the first video game that got me into story driven gameplay. Didn't like the 2nd one as much, but Snake Eater was top notch and I poured hours into hours in that. Loved 4 despite it being one giant cut scene but it tied up loose ends. Phantom Pain I disliked for a plethora of reasons.

Cinema is pretty much the same thing. I enjoyed both Sin Cities. I liked both Guardians of the Galaxy. I liked Diehard 1 and 3 but hated 2, 4 and 5. So on and so forth.

[TwoInAMillion]

Pretty much any Star Wars movie, or any sci fi movie for that matter, can be picked apart. It's called suspension of disbelief. Star Wars is about having a good time for 2 hours, not about having an academy award winning screenplay. A lot of the OT fans don't like TLJ because it's different from the other movies, unlike TFA which was a lot like the OT. They just need to get over it.

Ok...So what films exactly can you break down on why they don't work? Interstellar for example. Amazing all around sci-fi film. The music, the plot, the characters, this was a great sci fi film. I'm not asking for something arbitrary like "There's no such thing as space wizards!" Point out some glaring plot holes in the movie(s), or answer the ones I already pointed out in the above post.

Star Wars - Space samurai mixed with a wild west basically, my belief is already suspended but it's not going to be outright broken if the plot is inconsistent and broken and it doesn't follow it's already established rules. I can't immerse myself in a film like The Last Jedi when it's blatantly taking a dump on every film before it, including The Force Awakens. Does that make sense on why I hate this movie?



I don't get it, I expressed why I didn't like this film, and broke it down point by point as to why it doesn't make sense or why it makes it bad. You originally defended it by trying to point out why so and so is good, but the moment I show you these glaring plot holes or overall weak characters it's "well, every Star Wars and sci fi movie can be picked apart." Uh...? The movie is open to criticism. The Black Panther is open to criticism. Every movie should rightfully be criticized on how or why they are bad films or what the films are specifically lacking in. The Last Jedi had a decent soundtrack. Not anything I'd write home to mom about, but the musical scores were solid. The visuals were great, best in the series. And that's pretty much where my praise of it ends.

So no, I'm not going to get over it. As I said, I'm a fan of Star Wars, but I'm not going to blindly defend terrible films just because the name "Star Wars" is in it or because Disney took the reigns on the franchise.

I respect your opinion, I just think you are overthinking it, suffering from star wars fatigue maybe, and are a bit over nostalgic of the OT. I try to understand that Disney bought the rights to star wars to make money and that the new movies are not going to be the same as the old movies. Star Wars is not going to be like Interstellar most of the time, it's a completely different genre.

[DirtyDishSoap]

To be fair, you said "any sci fi" film.

Disney has the rights to the franchise, true, does that automatically make whatever films they make, good? No. Should they already follow the original in terms of cannon? I'd think so. If these were stand alone films and not direct sequels, I'd have almost no problem with it.

[TwoInAMillion]

For the record, I do think there are to many Star Wars films coming out and that it's probably diluting the quality of the movies. I don't think TLJ was one of those movies though.TLJ was better than any movie besides ANH and TESB imho.

[Kublai Khan]

Don't think my age has to do with much of anything or how I form my opinions but 28.

Actually, that sounds right. Late twenties is about the time I noticed it happen to me. You're getting wiser and smarter. You're noticing the formulas behind things and it'll probably start bugging you how simple and obvious it is and how younger people don't notice it.

The stuff that's exempt from this active deconstruction is stuff you've seen before. So music and movies from your teens and early twenties seem like are just better than today's offerings. It's not a bad thing. You're just growing as a person and you experience things differently. I find the key is to manage expectations. Seek out better things and expect the big summer blockbusters to be nothing more than what the formula satiates. Quip, explosion, chase, quip.

[xRECKONERx]

i basically have no high expectations for summer blockbusters and i was still let down by TLJ because it's bad storytelling

[scotmany12]

TLJ still a great movie

[scotmany12]

Also complaining about laws of space in a star wars film is hilarious

[TwoInAMillion]

It goes like this.

Episode VII: Say how awesome EP IV-VI is and how awful I-III is.
Episode VIII: Crap all over Ep VII.
Episode IX: Firmly end a new great trilogy and hopefully start a new trilogy

I'm fine with this, I think Johnson probably thought he was being subtle in how he was handling TFA and didn't realize Star Wars fans would see through what he was doing, but I see nothing wrong with this approch. It sets up Ep X-XII nicely, which is the main point.

[xRECKONERx]

i want a trilogy that stands as a trilogy, not a trilogy to setup yet another trilogy. fuck that

[Kublai Khan]

Yeah, but what about how this trilogy of trilogies is just setting up the next trilogy of trilogies...

[TwoInAMillion]

How would you plan on accomplishing that? Recast Rey and Finn as 80 year olds in Episode X?