The Venting Chamber

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:02 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

In post 24, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 13, drealmerz7 wrote:there's no such thing as ADD, so no medication is going to do anything good except maybe some surface behavioral shit that will just totally mess up the brainchemistry and make things harder for him
My wife's DSM V manual pages 31-35 says you are full of shit. Don't talk about things you clearly are not educated on.
"IT'S TRUE I READ IT SOMEWHERE!" - not really looking to argue, but that's one of the shittiest "you're wrong" arguments ever!

DDT is totally safe!!!

I suppose next you'll demand I prove the falsehood
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:51 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 24, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 13, drealmerz7 wrote:there's no such thing as ADD, so no medication is going to do anything good except maybe some surface behavioral shit that will just totally mess up the brainchemistry and make things harder for him
My wife's DSM V manual pages 31-35 says you are full of shit. Don't talk about things you clearly are not educated on.
What a profitable argument that can destroy people's lives with no means of recourse
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:07 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

the arrogance of doctors, nurses, the entire medical field, in general, is disgusting

and then it ripples, spouses, partners, friends presume to assert that because someone they know is 'in the field' they are also an authority by proxy

and to further it, anyone who isn't "in the field" regardless of what they've learned in life through experience and practical applications gets poopood by ^ (enter the entire false debunking of traditional medicine dating back thousands and thousands of years by modern medicine)

and western civilization is sicker (mentally and physically) than any time any civilization has ever been in history
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:23 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

I was with you up until you started defending traditional medicine
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:40 am

Post by MattP »

In post 10, Kublai Khan wrote:My oldest kid got diagnosed with ADD today. I love my wife, but she shared this news with me by trying to repeat as much as she could remember from the psychologist. Including stuff like statistically he's going to have a shorter lifespan, be more likely to land in jail, get addicted to drugs, less likely to finish college or possibly high school, etc.. I think she meant it as just background information, but i'm fucking reeling. We had discussed the possibility (hence why we got him evaluated), but I was kinda in denial of the possibility. I teach kids with behaviors way more extreme and my kid didn't seem to be anything like that.

I guess we'll start medication and go from there. It's just the first real roadblock in his life. It just really hurts knowing that he's going to struggle not just with one thing but many potential things and I feel helpless. He just seems so vulnerable and all I can do is hope that maybe the right medication will help. I hate trusting a doctor I haven't even met yet with the wellbeing and future of my kid. I hate trusting the field of psychology because it's always seemed to me to be one of the most inexact of sciences. Because it depends on personal physiology and brain chemistry and we don't seem to have that super understood yet. Just ends up being a lot of guesswork. I know I'm being unfair but this is just becoming stream of consciousness at this point.

Anyways. That's my venting for this evening.
Fwiw not that anecdote is particularly helpful, but I had such severe ADHD as a kid that my parents couldnt even take me to public places, I had to be on adderall through high school or my grades would immediately plummet, etc. And everything is now more than fine.

The majority of people with ADD don't even progress to having ADD in adulthood. Yeah it's definitely a hurdle but it doesn't at all even mean your child will have a flip of a coin chance of it lasting his lifetime / having long term impact. And at least I learned in school that ADD and jailtime/amoral behavior are completely absolutely different (conduct disorder is associated with increased jailtime with ADD not being at all).

I'm sorry you got a floodgate of scary info from your wife but A) it really isn't as bad as that all makes it seem and B) you're not helpless, you being a good parent will get your kid where they need to go, coming from a guy who had ADD and good parents who gave me the tools I needed to get through it
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:45 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

it follows logically

I cured warts and a corn I'd had for 10 years with 3 months use of holy basil extract

and millions of people with millions more examples over thousands of years

it's annoying how people disregard that western medicine is very much (not in every regard, but in lots of instances) a bastardization of traditional medicine - wtf do you think use of morphine comes from? roots in traditional medicine

and much much more

-

MattP, curious, did you eat candy, soda, junk food as a kid?
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:47 am

Post by MattP »

In post 18, Kublai Khan wrote:First off, I know there is such a thing as ADD. I've met plenty of kids who have ADD or ADHD and as much as I'm not a fan of medication, there are many instances where medication is definitely needed and helps. I'm just not sure if my son fits that criteria.

He's 8 years old, and he doesn't stay in a seat for 8 hours. The elementary school he goes to is a Grade A magnet school. It's pretty active and dynamic and it's not the rigid school environment you're thinking of (actually very few are that way these days but I digress).

One of the main issue has been his schoolwork. His handwriting tends to be very sloppy. I chalked it up to being left-handed and thought his fine motor control would get better, but that's not it. If he really tries one-on-one, he can make good letters. But he just writes at top speed and his writing because a scrawl. He'll also rush through assignments even though there's literally nothing to do afterwards and in his rush, he'll make really obvious mistakes. Like just before spring break he was doing math with coins in his math class. I know he knows how to count coins because we've worked on saving up for things and he's counted change plenty of times to figure out what he needs. But as I'd go through his homework or class assignments and he'd mix up the simplest things.

Behavior had been an issue as well. On his take-home sheet, he'll get a sticker for good behavior, a blank for a warning, and a conduct code number for a specific rule violation. He started off the year with mostly stickers, then the occasional blank, then the occasional number. But by the time February rolled around, it was nothing but numbers with no sticker in sight. The main problems were following directions, keeping his hands to himself, and talking. We set a meeting with the principal and teacher and started a "points sheet" to break down the day to AM/PM and how well he is following each target behavior and his behavior improved tremendously. Just having a shorter focus does seem to help curb his disruptive behavior.

Around the home, things are different. Most of the biggest issues with behavior exist because he has a 3 year old sister. So there is a tendency towards silliness which can result in "running/chasing/screaming/laughing" type play that drives us nuts. And sometimes it takes a few times asking to get him to stop. There are issues with sharing toys, etc.. But that's pretty normal. He tends to get really focused on making his Lego Technic creations and keeps bugging for more kits. He has a few chores like feeding the dogs and doing laundry. He can cook some basic meals. He loves doing science experiments. He is annoyingly silly at times (sorry, i'm trying to be honest). Like if he's doing some simple task (like walking through the house), then he'll choose to do it a silly way. Like making obnoxious mouth sounds or walking with a weird shuffle. I don't think it's outside of normal behavior for his age, but I feel like it should be happening at a lower frequency. Plus he still has a lot of issue with certain food textures but I don't think that's attention related.

Writing that all out, the issue is much more at school than home. But at home it's basically one-on-one attention. At school, he has to follow the directions without us supervising him and there is issues. I do share the concern about drugs mixing with a developing mind and do think that his behaviors seem manageable with just low-doses of positive reinforcement. Just.. I don't know. My head is still swimming. No decisions have to be made right away, and I think I'll definitely be taking off work to meet with the psychologist on the next visit.
This is just classic ADD description. Hey, I too would be worried if my kid had ANY diagnosis, because that's what a parent should do, and raising someone with ADD is definitely not easy. But you got this, and your kid is not going to be limited at all by it. In kindergarten, I one time went to the bathroom and took liquid soap and covered the WHOLE bathroom floor with it. I used to run through the mall and press every escalator emergency stop button. I never did my homework, half because of my attention and half because I wouldn't even notice the teacher saying we had homework. My parents tell these stories now because they're hilarious and so different from who I am now. Now I'm like the most type-A person in the world, it flipped completely when I became an adult. Really, for most people this is a childhood problem you grow out of. Even if you don't that's fine and I know people my age who still have it and take their medications and are otherwise super successful (my ex & my best friends bf both still take adderall). Itll be ok man
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:49 am

Post by MattP »

In post 30, drealmerz7 wrote:MattP, curious, did you eat candy, soda, junk food as a kid?
That's a folks tale.
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:50 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

sheepification successful, thank you adderall!

I know a good number of people who claim adderall really fucked them for the long term and are still suffering the consequences

these "behavioral disorders" are simply a sign that modern society doesn't account for the large variety that is life

"everyone must be like this and if you're not something is wrong!"
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:51 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

In post 32, MattP wrote:
In post 30, drealmerz7 wrote:MattP, curious, did you eat candy, soda, junk food as a kid?
That's a folks tale.
can you answer the question?
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:51 am

Post by MattP »

In post 34, drealmerz7 wrote:
In post 32, MattP wrote:
In post 30, drealmerz7 wrote:MattP, curious, did you eat candy, soda, junk food as a kid?
That's a folks tale.
can you answer the question?
I'm not answering your question because it's a bad question but thank you for checking in again to see if I would
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:53 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

ftr I know people who have removed artificial dyes and flavors and chemical preservatives from their children's diets and the children's behavior changes drastically

from the sort of kid described in the "classic ADD" diagnosis, to peacable children, completely changed

chemicals fuck with brain chemistry which impact behavior - it's pretty basic
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:53 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

In post 35, MattP wrote:
In post 34, drealmerz7 wrote:
In post 32, MattP wrote:
In post 30, drealmerz7 wrote:MattP, curious, did you eat candy, soda, junk food as a kid?
That's a folks tale.
can you answer the question?
I'm not answering your question because it's a bad question but thank you for checking in again to see if I would
no question is a bad question when trying to figure out what causes problems

sounds more like you fear another truth than the one you've told your self
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:58 am

Post by MattP »

Oof
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:04 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

fucking people claiming they found the fucking answer when they don't even know the fucking problem
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:08 am

Post by drealmerz7 »

mattp, the guy who only knows how to converse with someone who has the same thoughts as he does
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:19 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

I agree with drealmerz
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:53 pm

Post by Majiffy »

In post 30, drealmerz7 wrote: I cured warts and a corn I'd had for 10 years with 3 months use of holy basil extract
Warts will sometimes go away if left untreated. Just because you rubbed *something* on a wart means you treated it
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:00 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

In post 42, Majiffy wrote:
In post 30, drealmerz7 wrote: I cured warts and a corn I'd had for 10 years with 3 months use of holy basil extract
Warts will sometimes go away if left untreated. Just because you rubbed *something* on a wart means you treated it
I had the warts for 15 years, actually, and they'd gotten slowly worse and worse over the years (even spreading to a 2nd digit that was constantly rubbing on it)

I didn't rub anything on them, I consumed holy basil extract

3 months after I started taking it, the warts were completely gone, as was my corn that I'd had for 10
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:22 pm

Post by Brandi »

In post 10, Kublai Khan wrote:My oldest kid got diagnosed with ADD today. I love my wife, but she shared this news with me by trying to repeat as much as she could remember from the psychologist. Including stuff like statistically he's going to have a shorter lifespan, be more likely to land in jail, get addicted to drugs, less likely to finish college or possibly high school, etc.. I think she meant it as just background information, but i'm fucking reeling. We had discussed the possibility (hence why we got him evaluated), but I was kinda in denial of the possibility. I teach kids with behaviors way more extreme and my kid didn't seem to be anything like that.

I guess we'll start medication and go from there. It's just the first real roadblock in his life. It just really hurts knowing that he's going to struggle not just with one thing but many potential things and I feel helpless. He just seems so vulnerable and all I can do is hope that maybe the right medication will help. I hate trusting a doctor I haven't even met yet with the wellbeing and future of my kid. I hate trusting the field of psychology because it's always seemed to me to be one of the most inexact of sciences. Because it depends on personal physiology and brain chemistry and we don't seem to have that super understood yet. Just ends up being a lot of guesswork. I know I'm being unfair but this is just becoming stream of consciousness at this point.

Anyways. That's my venting for this evening.

I've suffered my entire life with ADD, but didn't find out I had it until adulthood. It's pretty common for girls to go under-diagnosed, but I also never had a chance for a diagnosis as I was not properly cared for as a child.
I do a lot of research to just sort of understand myself better, to cope with life, to understand others and why they don't understand me.


Here is an excellent article on some specifics about it that don't get brought up much, it holds true with my own experiences as well as a few others that I personally know with ADD.

https://www.additudemag.com/symptoms-of ... nsitivity/
This part in particular is important for me:
Despite its name, ADHD doesn’t actually cause a deficit of attention. It actually causes inconsistent attention that is only activated under certain circumstances.
Anyway, ADD/ADHD can be scary, especially with how misunderstood it is. If you have any friends or colleagues with it in your circle it could be really beneficial just to get some insight in their experiences and how they deal with things. I hope that things work out okay for you without too much struggle. I've come to learn that having a good parent that wants the best for you and makes the effort to learn and grow alongside you will make a world of difference. Some of our biggest struggles come from not being believed about how much we struggle or how much effort we put it, denied existence, or just general bullying due to being different. So having that baseline is necessary or else a lot more problems come about in life later. ^^;
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by Aurathebirb »

In post 27, drealmerz7 wrote:and western civilization is sicker (mentally and physically) than any time any civilization has ever been in history
Is this an april fools joke

cause aside from obesity and obesity related problems, I'd say we're doing better now than when we were dying of smallpox and what not
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:46 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 13, drealmerz7 wrote:there's no such thing as ADD, so no medication is going to do anything good except maybe some surface behavioral shit that will just totally mess up the brainchemistry and make things harder for him

remove artificial colors and additives from his diet, teach him methods of focus and meditation, I don't know how old he is, but know it's not normal to put growing active kids in a seat for 8 consecutive hours and expect them to take it sitting down
im gonna say that literally thousands of doctors and scientists probably have more credibility than a random forum user but what do i know
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:50 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

oops i meant i agree with drealmerz
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:30 pm

Post by DirtyDishSoap »

In post 45, Aurathebirb wrote:
In post 27, drealmerz7 wrote:and western civilization is sicker (mentally and physically) than any time any civilization has ever been in history
Is this an april fools joke

cause aside from obesity and obesity related problems, I'd say we're doing better now than when we were dying of smallpox and what not
You'd think an average life span for us is 80 years, when back then the lifespan was 40 would be a pretty good indicator. Guess we're sick?
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:57 pm

Post by Lycanfire »

In post 18, Kublai Khan wrote:snip
I'm left handed and writing neatly is something I don't do as an adult. Actually, most of my peers have horrible handwriting, at least the men do.

I remember getting an assignment where points would be deducted if there were legibility issues. Of course, I received a few jabs over it. I turned in a flawless essay, panties dropped and everybody clapped. Okay, not really, but close.

So why does your boy have horrible writing? Ink. If he's using a pencil, he'll get a lead mark across his hand. Using a pen is worse. You get the mark on your hand, and you'll smudge all your letters as you write. If he can lift his hand, write in a way that makes sense, and make it look good, then lucky him. For me it was something I ignored growing up and it caused me a lot of discomfort, and luckily by the time it became a problem everything was going digital. Sure, he can slow down and write beautifully, but then it comes down to practicality.

Do you want to raise a neurotic perfectionist or somebody that manages their time effectively? I pray for the latter-I have a co-worker that confided in me that his father (a wealthy man in one of the worlds poorest countries) inflicted great emotional trauma on him growing up, with high expectations and coldness when he did not satisfy him. When he told me of his past and why he's a perfectionist even to a fault, he spoke both humbly and shaken. He's 32. Thirty-fucking-two and that trauma still rules his life.

Your son's writing shouldn't be a problem. He's left handed, just like you thought. Unless you have any other reason to doubt his motor skills you're seeing ghosts.

It really sounds like you're raising a young boy. Definitely listen to your doctors, but I need to represent the southpaws here.
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