Which is the better antonym for "Conservative"?

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Which word is closer in meaning to a perfect antonym of "Conservative"?

Poll ended at Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:04 pm

liberal
7
29%
progressive
17
71%
 
Total votes: 24

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Which is the better antonym for "Conservative"?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:04 pm

Post by Porkens »

Let's stretch out those Pollexi capabilities.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:10 pm

Post by the worst »

I come from a crackpot country where the most right-leaning (on average) major party is called the Liberal Party. :lol:

Being Australian is a thought exercise sometimes
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:28 pm

Post by Porkens »

In post 1, the worst wrote:I come from a crackpot country where the most right-leaning (on average) major party is called the Liberal Party. :lol:

Being Australian is a thought exercise sometimes

haha, and your avi is upsidedown


(I think that might be offensive, please tell me if it is)
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:32 pm

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˙ʍou ʇɥƃᴉɹ uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ʎɹǝʌ lǝǝɟ I :lol: ¡¡ǝʌᴉsuǝɟɟo ʇou puɐ snoᴉɹɐlᴉɥ sᴉ ʇɐɥ┴
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm

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I wish I were upside down.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:01 am

Post by Majiffy »

Depends on your use of conservative. Conservative as in restraint? Liberal. Conservative as opposed to change? Progressive.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:03 am

Post by CooLDoG »

I really don't like that both progressive and conservative are value laden terms. On one hand you have an implication of saving what is valuable (conservative) and on the other you have a making the world better (progressive). I don't so much mind the term liberal, but it does not align well with typical US liberals economic thought.

I honestly prefer the terms traditionalist and reformist (or revolutionary. Although almost no US liberals are actual revolutionaries who want to completely destroy the current political system.) It seems to evoke the "old ways best" attitude and the liberal project of changing and adding new policies/programs...
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:03 am

Post by Majiffy »

For instance you can be conservative with money or liberal with money but being progressive with money makes no sense. Alternatively you can be conservative in your approach to something or progressive in your approach to something but being liberal in an approach is limited to only a few concepts.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:05 am

Post by CooLDoG »

Also, jiffy is correct, there are many "progressive" programs that find their home on the left-wing which are certainly NOT liberal. For instance, there is a good case to be made that the civil rights bill and other non-discrimination acts (which I whole heartedly agree with) are not "liberal" because they actually impose and take away certain freedoms from the system. While it would be hard to argue that they are not progressive.

EDIT;
Actually Conservative/Reformist were the two political factions in ancient Rome for those wondering.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:33 am

Post by Parama »

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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:00 am

Post by Majiffy »

Ooh ooh yeah we can break this down to active and passive freedoms
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:40 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

depends if you are talking about conservative or Conservative
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:40 am

Post by GreyICE »

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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:00 pm

Post by the worst »

In post 12, GreyICE wrote:Sane
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:52 pm

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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:23 am

Post by Tammy »

In post 8, CooLDoG wrote:
EDIT;
Actually Optimates/Populares
Conservative/Reformist
were the two political factions in ancient Rome for those wondering.
I came in here because I was going to answer "sane" thinking I was clever, but someone beat me to it.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:58 am

Post by CooLDoG »

In post 10, Majiffy wrote:Ooh ooh yeah we can break this down to active and passive freedoms
typically the distinction is made in the form of negative and positive, because freedom is generally considered to be a passive state that one is in regardless.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/libe ... -negative/

Essentially, conservatives are more about negative liberty, i.e. finding the the minimum of things that you can't do and then allowing people to do whatever beyond that. Liberals tend to want to increase positive liberty of some specific groups, meaning, give them more possibilities of action.

Negative liberty: "you are free if no one is stopping you from doing whatever you might want to do."
Positive liberty: "you must be self-determined, which is to say that you must be able to control your own destiny in your own interests."
In post 15, Tammy wrote:
In post 8, CooLDoG wrote:
EDIT;
Actually Optimates/Populares
Conservative/Reformist
were the two political factions in ancient Rome for those wondering.
I came in here because I was going to answer "sane" thinking I was clever, but someone beat me to it.
you are correct with your edit. However, I always figured that this was what the two main factions were in a defacto sense. Like, the Optimates were for the elite and the Populares were for giving shit to the peasants. But sure, whatever. I think my distinction could still hold overall.
Last edited by CooLDoG on Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:01 am

Post by Majiffy »

In post 16, CooLDoG wrote:
In post 10, Majiffy wrote:Ooh ooh yeah we can break this down to active and passive freedoms
typically the distinction is made in the form of negative and positive,
Yeah my b been a few years since I've touched social theory
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:04 am

Post by CooLDoG »

There are also some people who mix the two, like, "freedom is non-domination" or some shit like that. I forget. It has also been a couple of years sense I have touched the literature.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:39 am

Post by vonflare »

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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by Porkens »

Can someone give me of the summary for the "progressive" argument?
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:10 am

Post by Vijarada »

there's nothing inherently in conflict between liberal (we should have liberties freedoms etc) and conservative (society should stay the same). Progressive is in its very word conflicting with the word conservative.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:13 am

Post by Vijarada »

also our right-wingers are called liberals.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:51 am

Post by vonflare »

Yeah I feel like Americans like to give 'conservative' a negative connotation. Like they lump conservative and alt-right into the same category, which is pretty strange.

American politics man
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue May 08, 2018 7:06 am

Post by Porkens »

Vonflare, could you tell me your definition of "conservative"?
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