Star Wars Discussion Here [SPOILERS]

[Pine]

Yeah. Trying too hard. Hence skipping around and sampling.

[panthaleon]

I mean like I'm more than happy to discuss the thematic failings of this very dumb movie with very dumb decisions.

However since you're doubling down, I might also encourage you to look at the context of using one video from a female content creator and jumping around to round her down to some fake fan cashing in on Star Wars outrage. Especially describing her as petulant and grating. Like I don't really care to unpack everything here, but Jenny Nicholson has been remarkably consistent with her many many videos about star wars both on this channel and the other channel she was on doing a show about star wars. Talking about her merch and calling her a fake fan just looks tacky.

[xRECKONERx]

tbf pine jenny is a pretty prolific film reviewer on youtube and does these deep dives after every movie so this isn't some attempt to get clicks

[zoraster]

jenny nicholson is terrific. probably my favorite star wars centered reviewer?

[zoraster]

also calling her someone who "is just trying to get clicks" I mean... she's a youtube video producer. I assume that's part of it as she makes money on these things, but it's also kind of absurd accusation to levy against her. She's been doing this for quite some time, and it's pretty clear she's passionate about the movies and her take on it.

Also I have no idea why you'd say she just wanted the movie she constructed in her head when that's not at all reflected in the video linked.

I dunno. It's tough to be a young woman in fandom. "petulance and grating" "ultimate fangirl" "more than superficial"

[Pine]

Whoa, hold on there. I'd have used similar terms to describe a male YouTuber producing the same video. Not knowing her context matters, I'll give you that, I've never heard of her and only saw the one video. That doesn't make her any less whiny, and having a history of reviewing films doesn't make her opinions less trite. Perhaps she's done better videos, and perhaps I'm predisposed against anyone who surrounds themselves with product.

[Fluminator]

To me it feels like they intentionally created a black love interest for the black character and intentionally stuck them on a side mission together. Its not only the casting I'm objecting to. Finn was already part of 2 love pairs, FinnXRay which got minor lip service in the form of him almost admitting it to her when he was about to die, and FinnXRose which was completely sidelined(some might even argue a third subtextual one in FinnXPoe). In a movie moving this fast I have no other explanation for creating a new character.

it sounds like they had no plan and haphazardly threw in who loves who plots that were literally meaningless.

[schadd_]

i like jenny nicholson

[Errantparabola]

theory: Pine wanted to be disappointed in the Jenny Nicholson video & made a long post criticizing it to get Mafiascum clicks

[zoraster]

Whoa, hold on there. I'd have used similar terms to describe a male YouTuber producing the same video. Not knowing her context matters, I'll give you that, I've never heard of her and only saw the one video. That doesn't make her any less

whiny

, and having a history of reviewing films doesn't make her opinions less trite. Perhaps she's done better videos, and perhaps I'm predisposed against anyone who surrounds themselves with product.

I don't think you would. I don't think you'd view it as the same video if it were a man (though I don't know what that means in reality).

As for product, I'd question why you'd dismiss someone who has a bunch of merch in their background as... I don't know? Flawed? Unworthy of commenting on a movie? It's clear the style of video she's trying to accomplish isn't Serious-People-Sitting-In-High-Back-Chairs-Discussing-Things, but Star Wars shouldn't be that serious either.

Also I have no idea why the points she's making are considered "trite." I'd argue at worst they're nitpicky (though many are big enough deals as to be actual problems), but they're not

trite

as many aren't ones I've heard mentioned before (just as one of many examples, the blue civic part).

[Fluminator]

my main issue with that video is IT'S AN HOUR LONG

I actually agree with Krew for once.

[panthaleon]

I mean this isn't super relevant except that it looks the same as the classic "real Star Wars fans would have liked this movie, so anyone who didn't like it either isn't a real fan or wanted to hate it."

And this is relevant because I think this was a very bad movie, but I don't want to risk being purity tested over whenever I have the proper background to make critiques

[popsofctown]

This is much more yikes than I expected this thread to be

[Pine]

I really do not take kindly to the suggestions that are being made about my motives for disliking this reviewer. I am well aware of my biases, they are at most tertiary here. I disagreed with the review, but presentation counts. I don't like the medium of YouTube for this sort of thing, nor do I like the mode of sitting in front of a camera and talking about what you don't like. There are just as many male video-makers I dislike for exactly the same reasons.

Again, all of that is tertiary to the fact that I thought the quality of her argument was deficient. There were a lot of problems with

Rise of Skywalker,

some of which were addressed, but a lot of the critiques were based on expectation versus reality. She wanted x to happen, y happened, the movie sucked even though y was an entirely valid story.

Please do not assign unwarranted prejudices to me again. If you want to talk about how unconscious biases might be coloring my perceptions, we can have that conversation, but not in a venue which involves hostility.

[chamber]

She wanted x to happen, y happened, the movie sucked even though y was an entirely valid story.

Timestamp

[panthaleon]

I might also say that you're taking a real aggressive approach at the end of your post there, my dude. Please remember you're a moderator and that carries with it some certain standards of behavior.

[zoraster]

to be fair, he's talking to me and I'm not going to interpret his post as being disrespectful or anything to me as a user. I know Pine. I respect Pine. It's hard for me sometimes to come to terms with my own biases, and there's often a reflexive defensiveness when called out on them. I don't always appreciate it in real time if I'm honest.

But those things still need to be said because hopefully at least some of those things get through to me. That's what I'm trying to say here. I don't think Pine is a bad guy or anything like that. If you don't like YouTube videos or if you don't like her take (I don't agree with much of it, but I think most is presented in a pretty compelling way), that's perfectly fine. It's the belittling language that I don't like because it's all-too prevalent in fandom generally, and that makes it hard for women to enter that space.

[Aronis]

To me it feels like they intentionally created a black love interest for the black character and intentionally stuck them on a side mission together. Its not only the casting I'm objecting to. Finn was already part of 2 love pairs, FinnXRay which got minor lip service in the form of him almost admitting it to her when he was about to die, and FinnXRose which was completely sidelined(some might even argue a third subtextual one in FinnXPoe). In a movie moving this fast I have no other explanation for creating a new character.

it sounds like they had no plan and haphazardly threw in who loves who plots that were literally meaningless.

Yep, you just summed up the entire movie really well

[gobbledygook]

Mollie what would you do to make Solo: A Star Wars Story better?

[Firebringer]

theory: Pine wanted to be disappointed in the Jenny Nicholson video & made a long post criticizing it to get Mafiascum clicks

this is a good post

[Firebringer]

tbf to Pine the first time I watched a jenny Nicholson video I thought she was a whiny annoying youtuber, I think its her voice. She talks in a specific way like someone mopping around and really sad because they haven't gotten a good night sleep or something.

She brings up a lot of good points that I think ur ignoring Pine.

[secretGuy234]

Jenny Nicholson has more star wars videos than probably any other subject matter but yeah sure I guess shes just clickbaiting and not a fan. Lol

[secretGuy234]

This is much more yikes than I expected this thread to be

star wars discussion is some of the most cursed discussion in existence tbf

[Firebringer]

This is much more yikes than I expected this thread to be

star wars discussion is some of the most cursed discussion in existence tbf

go away u frickin nerd

[Firebringer]

She wanted x to happen, y happened, the movie sucked even though y was an entirely valid story.

Timestamp

yeah I think the times she disagreed with the direction the movie went it was more on how it was executed/pacing and other issues that the direction caused. Basically saying that the result wasn't bad and movie had potential in areas but was horribly executed. I feel like I am summarizing it decently.

idk I listened to her a few hours ago and was half paying attention.