Haunted House - Game Ended

[JDGA]

Did you just dig up a 13-year-old format? Nice!
/in

[JDGA]

/confscum

[JDGA]

I feel like telling everyone our choices is only gonna help the bad ghost kill us more easily...

[JDGA]

Yeah, but it'll let the bad ghost plan out where they hide to give themselves more cover

[JDGA]

It doesn't matter if they can protect

more

of us, giving the bad ghost fewer options makes it harder for us to figure out who they are

[JDGA]

Charles: The trouble with that is the bad ghost can plan where they go to make themselves look super innocent even though they really aren't.

[JDGA]

That won't work because literally EVERY player wants to be in the same room as the good ghost, so especially once people start getting a better idea of who the good ghost is everyone's going to start ignoring the strategy to try and improve their odds of survival.

[JDGA]

On top of that, if a single player is given the control to determine where everyone goes, 90% chance the bad ghost manipulates their way into that position and screws everyone over. Deciding hiding places in public just... really,

really

isn't a good idea.

[JDGA]

JDGA is the bad ghost.

*shrug*

This isn't mafia, our first objective is to

survive

. Even if there's a breaking strategy to find the good ghost 100%, people aren't gonna follow it if it puts them in more danger.

[JDGA]

Bad ghost can kill anyone in any location (except the location of the good ghost). The bad ghost still hides, but only for misdirection.

[JDGA]

Let's look at the win conditions here:

Welp here we go

A visitor can only win on the last turn if he knows who the good ghost is. It is in his best interest to narrow down the possibilities to discover the identity of the good ghost.

The good ghost can only win if the last visitor knows his identity on the last turn. It is in the best interest of the good ghost to help the visitors discover his identity.

The only player that benefits from keeping secrets is the bad ghost. Only the bad ghost would want to keep our hiding places private and discourage the visitors from working together. The bad ghost wants to kill the visitor that would reveal the smallest amount of information possible. That means killing someone that is hiding in a place where the smallest number of other players are also hiding.

Wrong: The bad ghost doesn't care about

any

of this, except to avoid having himself ruled out as the good ghost.

Our strength is in our numbers. If we all work together and hide in two large groups it gives us a lot more information about who the small ghost can be than if we all keep our hiding spaces secret. We want to eliminate a large number of people that we know cannot be the good ghost, right? If we don't co-operate we will learn much less.

I feel like telling everyone our choices is only gonna help the bad ghost kill us more easily...

I don't see how telling our location helps the bad ghost at all. Its the opposite in fact. The bad ghost wins by keeping his identity a secret. It hurts the bad ghost when we are able to determine who can be ruled out.

Nope, it gets a LOT easier for the bad ghost to avoid drawing suspicion to themselves if we start making it public where we go, since he can choose the place least awkward to him. And we can't expect to just have one person dictate where everyone goes, either, because even if someone other than the bad ghost does the dictating, just about everyone will have incentive to ignore it.

The hiding places of everyone are going to be announced before bad ghost kills whether we reveal our own hiding places in the thread or not. The bad ghost can kill you just as easily whether you share your hiding place in the thread or not. Right now we have no idea who the good ghost is so there is no way to protect yourself from being killed by hiding with the good ghost.

Did you just misinterpret everything I've been saying? Copy-paste the last paragraph, basically.

Yeah, but it'll let the bad ghost plan out where they hide to give themselves more cover

I dont understand how the bad ghost can give him self cover based on choosing where to hide. He still has exactly the same choice of who to kill no matter where he hides. There is no way to figure out who is the bad ghost before the last turn anyway.

I mean he can easily choose where he goes to let him kill his intended targets without drawing any suspicion to himself. Given we can never rule out the bad ghost as good logically, it comes down to suspicion and if he can keep looking innocent, he's in very good shape.

It doesn't matter if they can protect

more

of us, giving the bad ghost fewer options makes it harder for us to figure out who they are

Fewer options are not going to make it harder to figure out. The only way to figure out the bad ghost is to rule out every one from being the good Leaving only one possility of one good, one bad, and one visitor.

And the bad ghost will

never let you do that

. Stop trying to look at how to "break" this game and solve it 100%, it simply cannot work as well as your naive approach would suggest.

Charles: The trouble with that is the bad ghost can plan where they go to make themselves look super innocent even though they really aren't.

I don't​ see any way a bad ghost can make himself look any more innocent than anyone else by choosing where to hide.

We get the "least information" if the bad ghost kills players who are isolated, right? If the bad ghost accidentally hides with that player, suddenly he misses that big opportunity and looks suspicious to boot when neither of them die. If we publicise where we're going, situations like that can NEVER happen.

That won't work because literally EVERY player wants to be in the same room as the good ghost, so especially once people start getting a better idea of who the good ghost is everyone's going to start ignoring the strategy to try and improve their odds of survival.

I kind of agree with you there, but it doesn't matter on the first turn because none of the visitors has any idea of who the good ghost is on the first turn.

Sure, but I hope you're not thinking you can "solve" this game on the first turn.

On top of that, if a single player is given the control to determine where everyone goes, 90% chance the bad ghost manipulates their way into that position and screws everyone over. Deciding hiding places in public just... really,

really

isn't a good idea.

I'm not talking about one person deciding where everyone goes. I'm talking about working together to maximize what we can learn. By saying where we hide we can prevent the possibility that only one or two players end up in one place while lots of players end up in another. If that happens then the bad ghost can kill someone from the smallest group and then we will learn almost nothing at all.

Unless the bad ghost is IN the smallest group, which gives us a LOT of information.

JDGA is the bad ghost.

*shrug*

This isn't mafia, our first objective is to

survive

. Even if there's a breaking strategy to find the good ghost 100%, people aren't gonna follow it if it puts them in more danger.

Here on the first turn we know nothing about who the ghosts are. Everywhere is equally dangerous. The only thing we can do to increase our odds of winning is to figure out who the good ghost is. The more information we can gather makes it easier to figure out. The only way I can see to gather information is to see who gets killed and then we know that everyone else hiding in the same location cannot be the good ghost. We can learn more information if we all hide together in large groups. If there is a small group the bad ghost is going to strike there to minimize what we learn.

I hope by now it's clear that coordinating to hide in large groups isn't a good thing. Who

doesn't

die is arguably even more important than who does, and we lose a lot of that by simplifying this to two groups.

Clearly the best move is to be a part of a large group. We can only do that if we can see where everyone else decides to hide. We can make the largest groups if we all decide to only use two places and leave the other two empty.

I propose that it is in everyone's best interest (except the bad ghost's) if we all say where we are hiding and make sure that we split as evenly as possible between two hiding places. I suggest using the armor and the closet because we already have people there. Keeping our hiding places secret only helps the bad ghost to divide and conquer. Keeping secret doesn't do anything to help you survive this turn. Working together we can guarantee that one of the visitors will win, the good ghost will win, and the bad ghost will lose. So, let's work together and share where everyone is hiding and be sure to find as much information as possible when someone dies. Let me know if there are holes in my logic but I think that this is the best strategy to follow for at least the first turn.

*sighs*

Maybe for the first and ONLY the first turn, but at this point there's two hours left and the ship has long sailed on that one.
I was not expecting to get walled at in this game, pardon me if you were hoping for a simple game where you wouldn't have to examine this kind of stuff.

[JDGA]

No, I know that, in fact he needs to

not

be in the same hiding place as his victim if he doesn't want to be confirmed as not-good. And the bad ghost will never let us confirm him as not-good, so in the end it'll be one visitor plus two ghosts, and according to your plan no one will be able to say anything about either one. Figuring out the visitors are not-good means absolutely nothing, since in the end the survivor would only have to choose between the ghosts anyway.

[JDGA]

So apparently the bad ghost really doesn't care how many of us get "cleared", given there's only going to be one left at the end anyway. Surprise!

[JDGA]

Well, I'm saying cleared, but I really mean "cleared of being good ghost". So that'll never happen, since they can't clear the actual good ghost. (And if they somehow did, we'd be the ones screwed)

[JDGA]

I can't really see an issue with LLD's plan, given it maintains the secrecy I was worried about (and since the ghost confirmed me as non-ghost, what a jerk I was TOTALLY GONNA HELP YOU OUT).
Right now I think the best thing to do is try and figure out if this format is salvageable~

<3 you Equinox, LLD, don't fight over this D: