House M.D. Mafia - Doctor Test Round - Feel free to jump in!

For completed/abandoned Mish Mash Games.
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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:06 am

Post by Masquerade »

Oh maybe not hated but clinic duty and not be able to do anything on the patient during the next period.
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:06 am

Post by TellTaleHeart »

In post 149, Masquerade wrote:Like you put him on penicillin but failed to ask for allergies and now he's seizing so you're hated, your hated status will be removed if you do something helpful to your patient or when he gets cured.
Stuff like this seems like it would make the game a lot more tedious and frustrating. Not to mention it makes the game more swingy when you tie it in with the voting mechanics. If you're doing an obviously risky procedure or test and something goes wrong that seems fair but having to ask before giving penicillin seems too taxing.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:07 am

Post by TellTaleHeart »

In post 150, Masquerade wrote:Oh maybe not hated but clinic duty and not be able to do anything on the patient during the next period.
I like this.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:14 am

Post by Masquerade »

In post 151, TellTaleHeart wrote:
In post 149, Masquerade wrote:Like you put him on penicillin but failed to ask for allergies and now he's seizing so you're hated, your hated status will be removed if you do something helpful to your patient or when he gets cured.
Stuff like this seems like it would make the game a lot more tedious and frustrating. Not to mention it makes the game more swingy when you tie it in with the voting mechanics. If you're doing an obviously risky procedure or test and something goes wrong that seems fair but having to ask before giving penicillin seems too taxing.
Yeah I agree. I was thinking about this condition test earlier and that would have made the player that asked for that (sorry, forgot who it was) hated as well while he really didn't do any harm per say because that's what the test is for.
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:25 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

In post 149, Masquerade wrote:Maybe hated-status can come from all bad outcomes, not just death? Like you put him on penicillin but failed to ask for allergies and now he's seizing so you're hated, your hated status will be removed if you do something helpful to your patient or when he gets cured. Hated from death can't be reverted because well, the patient is dead.

When someone at L-1 gets hated, does he insta-die?
They do come from all bad outcomes. Ask Charloux and yes, hated at l1 means death
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:27 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

And noted. I'll definitely add clinic duty in some form
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:45 am

Post by Masquerade »

Oh somehow I missed that he got hated.
I'm definitely writing stuff down when the game is actually on.
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:04 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

In post 144, Masquerade wrote:I'll try.
So in this case we had a house search and it didn't really have any hints about the disease. The hint was in the man's job, and we could have deduced without the house search he could have found lead-based paint and painted his house with that. But I was thinking adding, for instance, that the paint was cracked and there's a paint can/stuff from garage sales stored, it would have become more clear there could be lead-based paint in the house. However, saying that will point to the diagnoses and makes it easier to solve the case, and that's not really what you want, right? So I was thinking the more specified stuff could come up in a second house search, and to make sure players don't figure out what the diagnosis is in 2 periods (1 period for global search and 2nd for specified search with more clear clues) I was thinking putting in a cooldown of at least 1 period (but maybe more) so that players will also have to do tests on the patient and can't fall back too easily on clues from the searches.
Then a second search, where a player will have to specify what to look for or where to look, could turn up more clues.

In this case it would be something like what you wrote for the first search, then someone thinks of fungus and needs to go back to check the damp places for mould and the fridge and stuff like that. Maybe the first search could hint to 'a damp house' and then the 2nd search would turn up fungus. Maybe also the first search would never include samples, samples will have to be specified in a next search. I mean, the house search came up in the first period and you don't want it to be case-solving but I do feel in this particular case we played it didn't bring much information. Maybe you wanted it to be distracting, if so then I said nothing :D

I'm not sure if it's a good idea though, I'm looking at this from my own perspective and maybe it's not necessary.
I think including some red herrings (lead paint, when the diagnosis is not actually lead poisoning for example) would be a better and more House way to do this.
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:06 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

In post 145, KuroiXHF wrote:Well I left more than one clue. Granted, the house was the largest clue, but the "cheapness" was also a huge clue. Someone who would be willing to save a buck by buying only cheap deli meats and McDonald's would also be the person to use cheap tools and would have a shortcut to their health. Mixing that with the symptoms, lead poisoning shouldn't have been such a large leap. I'm pretty sure the house wasn't a factor to TTH when he diagnosed and set the patient on the correct treatment.

And you're right. I don't want the answer to be so easy that the doctor would walk in and find a can of paint, test for lead and there you go. A cooldown period does seem nice. The thing is that the specified search is kind of how I already have it. Titus, on the second try, said that she wanted to go back and search specifically for the paint chips.

But I do like, "Oh you're using an action period to search the house? OK. This is what you find." And the second search could lead to, "You took samples of the tap water, the mold on the bread and liquid underneath the sink, etc."

But on the other hand, if brain surgery lasts one action and if you can do an MRI and get the results within one action, why does the house search have to be longer?"
One turn to go the House and take samples, oner turn to go to the lab and analyse them...
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:09 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

In post 146, Clumsy wrote:Short list of ideas and criticisms that I came up with. It needs to be much more clear about what is and is not being done with investigations, like the house for instance. It needs to be very clear what the rules are on certain things like that, or with certain things and how that will affect gameplay, like the confidentiality thing. It's a house flavor, so some people might expect that to be okay, what others think the medical side of it makes it not OK, and it can cause some confusion. Also, I'm against the D20 thing. It would work for something like a tabletop house game, but not for a for Mafia game, random this is probably bad here. Also, last question, how does this actively tie into a game of Mafia? Is the mafia attempting to get the patient killed? Because unless they are, I don't really see how this mixes with Mafia all that well. Diagnosing the patient becomes much more important to everybody that catching scum is, and if there is no opposing goals to the alignments, there's no real way to figure out who is scum. I think there has to be some kind of conflicting goals between the mafia and the town.
Maybe give scum the ability to sabotage tests to give false results and thus mislead people into false diagnoses and treatments.
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:14 am

Post by Masquerade »

Ooh that might be fun.
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:16 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

In post 150, Masquerade wrote:Oh maybe not hated but clinic duty and not be able to do anything on the patient during the next period.
Yes, we definitely need some clinic duty mechanic! Maybe have them diagnose clinic patients in a PT if they screwed up some way.
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:21 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

I definitely would adore House as a flavour for a Mafia Game, and even more the mechanic. And leaving it relatively open with regards what players can do makes it so much more House, so I guess you should keep that as well. I think what you should put some more thought into is how this could be better integrated with an actual Mafia Game, so that it still remains mafia but at the same time players have a clear incentive to do both old-fashioned scum hunting and diagnosing (that's also very House, by the way. He's always bored if he hasn't some prank going on on the side...)
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:25 am

Post by Antihero »

In post 159, Shadow Dancer wrote:
In post 146, Clumsy wrote:Short list of ideas and criticisms that I came up with. It needs to be much more clear about what is and is not being done with investigations, like the house for instance. It needs to be very clear what the rules are on certain things like that, or with certain things and how that will affect gameplay, like the confidentiality thing. It's a house flavor, so some people might expect that to be okay, what others think the medical side of it makes it not OK, and it can cause some confusion. Also, I'm against the D20 thing. It would work for something like a tabletop house game, but not for a for Mafia game, random this is probably bad here. Also, last question, how does this actively tie into a game of Mafia? Is the mafia attempting to get the patient killed? Because unless they are, I don't really see how this mixes with Mafia all that well. Diagnosing the patient becomes much more important to everybody that catching scum is, and if there is no opposing goals to the alignments, there's no real way to figure out who is scum. I think there has to be some kind of conflicting goals between the mafia and the town.
Maybe give scum the ability to sabotage tests to give false results and thus mislead people into false diagnoses and treatments.
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:29 am

Post by Clumsy »

Well then what is the goal of scum then? What's their win-con? Same as normal? How does this add to the game then?
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:33 am

Post by FakeGod »

Why mix mafia into this?

I think the doctor portion alone would make a fine game in the Mish Mash.
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:52 pm

Post by FakeGod »

There we go.
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:48 pm

Post by Realeo »

In post 165, FakeGod wrote:Why mix mafia into this?

I think the doctor portion alone would make a fine game in the Mish Mash.
+1

When I started following the game (without any doctor knowledge), my mind went "If this got mixed with mafia, will they have even enough time to scum hunt?"

I think that if you want to run this game mixed with mafia, throw the doctor part into a public PT so the doctor diagnosis stays in the PT while the scumhunt part stays in the main thread to avoid clusterfuck and to make things more organized.

And since you have a co-mod, you can split the work. One of you can work in the PT while the other one work in the main thread.
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:24 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

In post 157, Shadow Dancer wrote:I think including some red herrings (lead paint, when the diagnosis is not actually lead poisoning for example) would be a better and more House way to do this.
I had
some
red herrings. (The dog, the mosquito bite on the penis, etc.) But maybe I should add more. The fact of the matter is in the real life, not everything is relevant.
In post 158, Shadow Dancer wrote:One turn to go the House and take samples, oner turn to go to the lab and analyse them...
I'm thinking that make more sense. Time-wise, it takes about double the time to take the time to go to a patient's house, search for everything, drive back, THEN do the tests.
In post 159, Shadow Dancer wrote:Maybe give scum the ability to sabotage tests to give false results and thus mislead people into false diagnoses and treatments.
Good idea! I'll think about this!
In post 165, FakeGod wrote:Why mix mafia into this?

I think the doctor portion alone would make a fine game in the Mish Mash.
Alright, so here's my thought process. We'll do our Micro game. If things go well, we can play this game in Mish Mash and spend more time fine-tuning the mechanics then if the Mafia game went well and people become comfortable with the diagnostic part, we can do a full length large theme game. Then we can do full-time mish mash.
In post 167, Realeo wrote:When I started following the game (without any doctor knowledge), my mind went "If this got mixed with mafia, will they have even enough time to scum hunt?"
I think so. I left a good amount of time for people to converse and most didn't, because they already put their actions in.
I think that if you want to run this game mixed with mafia, throw the doctor part into a public PT so the doctor diagnosis stays in the PT while the scumhunt part stays in the main thread to avoid clusterfuck and to make things more organized.
I will consider this, but there's definitely going to be a grey area and I can't see a way where this stuff won't spill over. For example, I'm sure Player A will try to find a way to consider Player B's treatment of the patient scummy.
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:53 am

Post by Charloux »

Maybe we should get some information by a PM and it's up to us to share the results. That said, if 2+ ask for the same thing they will both get the results. I think this will add another flavour for scum
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:58 am

Post by Dierfire »

In post 143, KuroiXHF wrote:Dierfire, did you find an incentive to delay actions? I don't see myself giving one. If anything, I would penalize them. "A patient that is not being treated will get worse." (And I will make an exception for when players are on V/LA.)

Also, what is a LYO Phase?
Yeah, I didn't see a major one, so it probably doesn't need correction. I was just trying to anticipate possible problems.

LYO is apparently my poor spelling skills! I meant *YLO (as in LYLO or MYLO).
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:12 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

In post 169, Charloux wrote:Maybe we should get some information by a PM and it's up to us to share the results. That said, if 2+ ask for the same thing they will both get the results. I think this will add another flavour for scum
I don't think I'll be doing this for the reason that even though everyone is responsible for their own fuck-ups in treating the patient, I'm trying to make this appear to be the same patient.

The only way this could really work in the way you're explaining it is if I sent a PM to everyone except for one who may not be able to receive the results but that would be way too much.
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:28 am

Post by Charloux »

Point taken. This is an awesome idea, but it needs some polishing before you fuse it with mafia.
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:10 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=66839

I'm starting another one here, if you'd like to sign up. I'm right now updating rules and such, but I'm focused on making it more enjoyable and fun to play!
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