Murder Riddle (Solved)
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Except, how do we know that? A culprit could have heard the bang and done nothing about it.In post 26, Blackberry wrote:there was no loud bangs.
EDIT: Yarn said Jezz was shot dead. So if that is false, Yarn would be a culprit.. I have no replacement.Retired Account
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So we KNOW that Alex, Orange, Luka, Sarah, Flaming, Thorus, and Watson (7/18) are clear.
And we think that if Yarn is clear (which I am skeptical of), then that clears five more.
Sometimes when solving, say, a Sudoku and it is really hard, the best strategy is to make a guess that gives information, solve from there, and see if it leads to a contradiction. If so, erase anything you obtained from it, and use the other option.
Maybe we should do that for the murder riddle:assumethat Yarn is clear, and either it leads to (1) a solution, in which case we win, or (2) a contradiction, in which case we have 1 confirmed culprit.
Cleared for sure: Alex, Orange, Luka, Sarah, Flaming, Thorus, Watson
Cleared subjunctively: Yarn, Jezz, Fen, Tech, Nate, Takumi
Not cleared: Xerxes, Fracie, Zeus, Ryax, William
So now we should go through the murders and look for who could have killed whom.
1-6: No information here. Any of the uncleared five could have done it.
7-8: Do we think that Ryax is claiming Zeus did not kill Sarah+Flaming? (Not that is matters, as murder 10 implies Ryax is unreliable.)
9: The culprit did not escape but no one checked for people hiding in the room. William either had his room key or the killer left it there.
10: Now this one is interesting. No one is hiding and the windows are locked, but the group was away for a while. That means that Alex was killed by someone who "died" earlier. (And, I just rediscovered other people's already-posted theories: it was Xerxes, Fracie, or William. Blackberry's theory has a flaw -- Xerxes + Fracie could have worked together to do that.)
11: Ryax and Zeus were away when the Orange murder happened. This one seems like it must have been Fracie, unless Xerxes or William managed to get a hold of the key to Orange's room.
12: Ryax was away, again. Zeus looks like he was away, but Luka's "Indeed" was not purple. But in the next two murders, Jezz confirms that none of the known-alives could be the killer here. So once again, this was either Xerxes, Fracie, or William.
13-14: I am not sure how this scene happened. So, a killer came in, killed Luka, grabbed the gun, got shot but survived, and then fatally shot Fen? See, this was in open space, so there is nothing to tell that this is either Xerxes, Fracie, or William.
15: Any chance that someone managed to sneak in another gun? Two guns are used up, a third MAY be used up, and Ryax+Zeus have the other two. I think Ryax lied that the gun next to Tech was unloaded. That, or a past culprit has a secret reserve of either guns or bullets.
This is getting me nowhere. I think the keys will have something to do with this whole thing. That is the one thing I have been mostly ignoring. Though given that most of the key information comes from unreliable characters... (and Zeus and Fracie have master keys, right?)
And one last thing, Yarn said in purple text that Ryax is "nice and gentle". I am not sure what the implications are, but at the very least, it seems like Ryax did not participate in the fighting scenes. (But we already know that from other means.). I have no replacement.Retired Account
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Haschel Cedricson Mr. Know It All
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Considering that this has stalled recently, I think we should spend more time actually trying to eitherIn post 29, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Meta guess: Xerxes invited everyone so he could kill them.
(1) prove or disprove the "Yarn is innocent" hypothesis, or
(2) figure out what is going on with all the keys.
Another option is to expand the theory so that the mod has to actually give a disproving clue. Here is my add on.
WILLIAM
William is a culprit.
William and Alex's "death" occurred when the eight others were all together. So either one of them committed the murders and faked their own death. Or one of the eight that previously died was a culprit and committed the murders.
However, none of the previous 8 that died would have a key anymore and could not create the lock room scenario that resulted in Alex's death. Even if they killed one of
We know 100% Alex did not fake his death, as the narration states Alex died.
William must have killed Alex. Dropped his key near Alex's body and took Alex's key. Locked Alex's door. Went to his own room, locked it from the inside and faked his death.
William also was the killer in every death after his fake-death.
For example, with the deaths of Fen and Luka: William used his knife to kill Luka. Fen shot William, but he survived, took Luka's gun, and fatally shot Fen. He then hid somewhere, it does not matter where.
It's possible Xerzes or Fracie also killed both of them, then took the time to go to one's room, swap the keys and then take it back to the other room and hid in William's room... but that would take time to go back and forth after killing them and there was likely not enough time to do this.
RYAX
Ryax is a culprit.
Ryax is a culprit because Ryax lied. During William and Alex's death, the only people that could have killed the victim(s) were Xerzes, Fracie, or William. However, Ryax confirmed all of their deaths. Therefore, Ryax is a culprit.
Ryax murdered Sarah and Flaming. Zeus opened the door during the first floor search, and Ryax went down and killed them. Zeus is needed here because he is a servant and has the key.
ZEUS
Zeus is a culprit.
Zeus is a culprit because he was the only person that could create the locked room mystery that resulted in Tech's death in the locked bathroom. He was the only suspect with a key that could lock the bathroom door after the murder was committed.
At 6 AM, Zeus woke up, opened the dining room, and killed the first six. I presume that he was able to do it because everyone fell asleep in their chairs. He probably also gave William a knife, and locked the kitchen afterward.
Zeus assisted in the killing of Sarah and Flaming. He and Ryax unlocked the door, Ryax went down and killed the two in the basement, and came back up. They both lied, in order to confuse the rest. Zeus probably also searched the first floor just in case someone was listening.
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I apologize if I look like I'm asking too much, but I'd love if you explained how the murders were committed in the order the boodies were found.
And one last thing you missed in your theory is Jezz's death: If no gunshot was heard and Yarn is not lying with her "Jezz was shot", how could this happen? She'd be a culprit then, no?
But, I am a nice and benevolent person, so even though you are missing some of the deaths (Orange's and Jezz's), a small red you shall receive.
When Flaming's and Sarah's bodies were found, no door had been locked with a master key.- 2 718281828459
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I am a little confused on what this means. Does it meanIn post 31, Segaco wrote:When Flaming's and Sarah's bodies were found, no door had been locked with a master key.
(1) The master keys were not used to lock doors AT ALL at ANY point before the bodies were found, or
(2) Any door that was locked before got unlocked by the time the bodies were found?
(Or something else?). I have no replacement.Retired Account
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Well, there was a long interval were Yarn and Zeus were unaccounted for. So perhaps Yarn was too far away to have heard it, and Ryax heard it but did nothing about it? (The narration almost implies that Ryax did not kill her, but I am not sure of this.)In post 31, Segaco wrote:Jezz's death: If no gunshot was heard and Yarn is not lying with her "Jezz was shot", how could this happen? She'd be a culprit then, no?
It would be nice if Blackberry and who else was solving this earlier came and helped sort out my thoughts on this. I am probably overlooking something big here.. I have no replacement.Retired Account
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The first. No master key was used to lock a door before Flaming's and Sarah's bodies were found.In post 32, 2 718281828459 wrote:
I am a little confused on what this means. Does it meanIn post 31, Segaco wrote:When Flaming's and Sarah's bodies were found, no door had been locked with a master key.
(1) The master keys were not used to lock doors AT ALL at ANY point before the bodies were found, or
(2) Any door that was locked before got unlocked by the time the bodies were found?
(Or something else?)
When all else fails, focus on the door.2 718281828459 wrote:
Well, there was a long interval were Yarn and Zeus were unaccounted for. So perhaps Yarn was too far away to have heard it, and Ryax heard it but did nothing about it? (The narration almost implies that Ryax did not kill her, but I am not sure of this.)In post 31, Segaco wrote:Jezz's death: If no gunshot was heard and Yarn is not lying with her "Jezz was shot", how could this happen? She'd be a culprit then, no?
It would be nice if Blackberry and who else was solving this earlier came and helped sort out my thoughts on this. I am probably overlooking something big here.- 2 718281828459
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One thing that is a little odd is that it seems like Ryax or Zeus could have gone to the servant's room, found the study key (which had not been taken, right?), and used it to figure out what Jezz was doing. However, they found the need to break down the door. This is a little unusual, but I am not sure exactlywhatit implies. (Ryax probably at least expected the murder, though.). I have no replacement.Retired Account
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I mean, I could just red-text-brute-force this problem into a solution (and I may do so if no one else helps out), but I first want to build a coherent theory. I need more time to do so.
EDIT: OK, this is closer, although I think it has several holes in it.
EDIT 2: All right, let me see how this goes.
Spoiler: my thoughts from earlier. I have no replacement.Retired Account
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Hmm, I see.In post 36, 2 718281828459 wrote:
There are several problems with this theory, some being that it is not mentioned how Tech's locked room was created, the group found Orange's body because of a loud sound coming from his room, and at the end before Jezz's death I meant to implyYarn, Zeus and Ryax were together the entire time after Jezz went into the study.
But, instead of focusing on these little points I will shoot the core of the problem:
The moment there are more culprits than innocents, the culprits would immediately go kill off the remaining innocents.- Blackberry
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By this statement... that meansIn post 38, Segaco wrote:The moment there are more culprits than innocents, the culprits would immediately go kill off the remaining innocents.At least 2 of the remaining 3 are innocent.
And it also means there can not be more than 2 culprits.- Segaco
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- Haschel Cedricson
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No, because it could be that all 3 remaining are innocent and there are 3 "dead" culprits lurking.(On second thought, no, because everyone's death is ultimately confirmed by either the narration, Ryax, or Yarn.)
Question:? (If so, then e.g. Xerxes or Tech could still be alive even if innocent?)Can a culprit fake the death of an innocent- Argument for YES: It says culprits can fake death.
- Argument for NO: However, if they did, the innocent would know this, and would probably eventually rise up and say "I'm not dead yet!" to the group. The only exception would maybe be Jezz.
I am trying to figure out how to resolve how only Zeus or only Ryax could be guilty at the very end. E.g. if Ryax and Yarn are clear, then Zeus must be doing all the killing which is impossible. So I think Ryax must be guilty. Now I have to know how Ryax, WIll, Xerxes, and Fracie could be working together to do these murders without Zeus...
Oh, another question.If the narration uses the word "corpse", does that mean 100% that the person is dead?
Again, if this is no, then I can see a few things involving Orange and Luka that are interesting...
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Thanks, that 100% clears Yarn, Alex, Orange, Luka, Sarah, and Flaming, while 100% convicting Ryax (clearing Zeus).
Now I need to figure out how to work in there only being 2 culprits. (The other has got to be William.)
EDIT: I think I figured outspecificallyhow the locked room mystery (William and Alex's deaths) happened without the aid of an accomplice. William left the bathroom, went out, and found Alex and took Alex to William's room. Then William killed Alex, took the Alex room key, opened Alex's room, went back, dropped the key near Alex, locked his room from the outside, went into Alex's room, locked the door from the inside, and faked his death.
EDIT 2: But what if it was not William, but Xerxes or Fracie (thus William would be innocent)?
Is it that unlikely? My story above is just as dubious.Blackberry wrote:It's possible Xerzes or Fracie also killed both of them [William and Alex], then took the time to go to one's room, swap the keys and then take it back to the other room and hid in William's room... but that would take time to go back and forth after killing them and there was likely not enough time to do this.. I have no replacement.Retired Account
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EDIT: Wait, I forgot about Tech and Orange. Cancel this theory until I get that fixed.
EDIT 2: Fixed.
(If Xerxes ends up being town, Fracie could in theory do all of the same things, although I am not sure if we are supposed to assume the fight-kills were done by a man or not.). I have no replacement.Retired Account
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Ryax confirmed the death of Xerxes and Fracie along with Fen. Assuming Fen is innocent, she would have called out Ryax's lie since she'd also know if Xerxes was alive or not.
And about Tech's locked room: The narration mentions that the bathroom is rather cramped, so I would say it is safe to assumethe bathroom is too small for a person to hide from another in the room.- 2 718281828459
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Wait, so are you saying that Ryax was truthful that Fen actually participated?
OK, I know this theory is a bit silly, but I actually think it may give more information than a conventional theory.
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I think (assuming that there is a legit solution to this) either 8, 11, or 12c is wrong, or there is an extra possibility that I missed. The main problems I am having is with the deaths of Tech and Alex and the supposed death of William. Everything else I can see how it would work.. I have no replacement.Retired Account
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The moment you assume there is no solution, then you won't be able to solve the mystery.
However, do know the point of locked room mysteries is to make you think that it is impossible for them to have occurred.
Let me give you a hand for the bathroom locked room. All you have to do is think of what you already know.
With the story itself, we know that the door was locked and that the only key to the room was inside with Tech.
In other words, you can say that the only way to lock the door from the outside was inside the room, which could not be accessed because it was locked.
Since it is obviously impossible to go through a door and get the key to lock the door from the outside, we are left with few answers:
A) The key being put after the room was broken into
A - Though, this would not be possible because Luka, who is clear, said the key was there when the door was opened.
B) There is a gap under the door and the culprit kicked the key in after locking it
B - But would the culprit really go out their way after being wounded & their victim having screamed (meaning people would come running soon) to look for the key in Tech's person and do this?
C) A servant locked it with their master key.
C - Last time I checked, all servants had alibis or were dead. Ruled out.
D) The door was locked from the inside, as there is no way to lock it from the outside.
And... we are left with option D. The only way to lock the door is from the inside, and since we know there was no one hiding in the room, then there is only one possible answer to this mystery, an answer you found out yourself:The person inside locked the door. - Segaco
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