The Pronoun Field

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Jingle
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Post Post #50  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:20 pm

Does the script make pronouns appear in the post preview and PM sections? I would guess not because the prounoun field is absent on those pages, but if it does that's worth letting people know.
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northsidegal
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Post Post #51  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:10 pm

it only works on thread pages

Krazy
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Post Post #52  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:55 pm

I know there would be some issues with this (no one wants 'attack helicopter' pronouns) but would it be mechanically possible for the site to allow manual entry of pronouns? Some people might prefer ze/zir and in any case pronoun norms have changed a fair amount in the last 5 years and there will probably be trends in the next 5 years no one here would necessarily anticipate. While "just keep adding them as they come" is one approach I feel like there's some options that are already omitted (xe/xir, ze/zir, etc.)

Additionally, I think it's aesthetically really jarring that the only pronoun that does full breakdown is e. I feel like in terms of consistency it should be he/his, she/hers, etc. The field should also probably be called "pronouns" if that change was implemented.
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Alisae
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Post Post #53  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:57 pm

I feel like it would just be better to update the pronoun field with new pronouns
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Krazy
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Post Post #54  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:04 pm

Maybe. If so I'd probably just add all of like, this chart, maybe as a start:

HE/SHE HIM/HER HIS/HER HIS/HERS HIMSELF/HERSELF
zie zim zir zis zieself
sie sie hir hirs hirself
ey em eir eirs eirself
ve ver vis vers verself
tey ter tem ters terself
e em eir eirs emself

https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/
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Alisae
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Post Post #55  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:08 pm

why are there so many and where did they all come from
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Krazy
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Post Post #56  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:11 pm

A more complete list with the origins of each proposed epicene pronoun can be found on wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_ne ... r_pronouns
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Krazy
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Post Post #57  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:17 pm

On the same point, I had not heard of "fae" but allowing user inputted pronouns would allow something like that even if it isn't currently popular or widespread

I understand if it would be more trouble than its worth in terms of added moderation and risk of abuse, but there's clunkiness in leaving out a lot of options and requiring moderator allowance on each possible pronoun option as well
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borkjerfkin
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Post Post #58  (ISO)  » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:27 am

Hi all, quick survey since I'm finally addressing this as part of the 3.3 upgrade:

1) How does everyone feel about trying to normalize the display of all pronoun options to (<Subjective>/<Objective>) e.g. "She/her" or "E/em" with the goal of 1) being consistent and 2) saving space where possible. Do we think we need the long form of all of the cases? If so, can we limit that to showing in one place?

2) I am aware of requests for additional places to show pronouns, namely: 1) reply/p-edit 2) activity overview. Any others?

3) I'm not going to try to tackle the question of "what pronouns are we going to allow" - I will leave this to the admins, but I would like to reinforce the idea that it would take an attentive administrator very little effort to add additional pronouns, given that the language will continue to evolve over time and I think avoids aforementioned "attack helicopter" scenario.
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Isis
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Post Post #59  (ISO)  » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:47 am

Input for borkjerfkin would be great; he has shown a lot of ability to deliver on this very soon. He's been working very hard on the upgrade and giving him input is a smaller way we can do our part.

Staff has not yet discussed write-in versus additional pronouns, due to some other focuses, but I'm sure we'll discuss it soon. The same goes for pre-emptively providing popular pronouns users have not yet requested. I have my own thoughts about these suggestions but will wait to speak as part of a group rather than an individual.

On the other hand, consensus on using additional locations for visibility is already overwhelmingly approved by staff. Input on the specifics is appreciated.
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Isis
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Post Post #60  (ISO)  » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:55 am

I'll toss out a suggestion I thought of. I'm not sure if it's too over the top:

Quote: post 11, Isis. She wrote:I think the bulges mockup is of the compose-a-reply page, Plotinus
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Alisae
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Post Post #61  (ISO)  » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 pm

holy shit
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Jingle
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Post Post #62  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:44 pm

In post 58, borkjerfkin wrote:Hi all, quick survey since I'm finally addressing this as part of the 3.3 upgrade:

1) How does everyone feel about trying to normalize the display of all pronoun options to (<Subjective>/<Objective>) e.g. "She/her" or "E/em" with the goal of 1) being consistent and 2) saving space where possible. Do we think we need the long form of all of the cases? If so, can we limit that to showing in one place?

2) I am aware of requests for additional places to show pronouns, namely: 1) reply/p-edit 2) activity overview. Any others?

3) I'm not going to try to tackle the question of "what pronouns are we going to allow" - I will leave this to the admins, but I would like to reinforce the idea that it would take an attentive administrator very little effort to add additional pronouns, given that the language will continue to evolve over time and I think avoids aforementioned "attack helicopter" scenario.


1) Long form only on the user profile page seems like it would be acceptable. As long as the long form is available for reference, it shouldn't be hard to figure out that she is linked to her or e is linked to em.

2) If it can be done the Bulge's UN (PN) format could be added to the display posts by user drop down as a means of quick reference. I use that in games sometimes to check who is actually in the game while posting, so it's not unreasonable to think someone else could use it for checking pronouns.

3) This is not a question, and as such should not be labeled with a number in your survey. I would like to take the chance to again say I would prefer there to be a distinction between "Chooses not to answer" and "No preference", but understand this is not within the realm of your update. I agree that if there is little effort involved in adding pronouns, leaving it in the hands of admins seems prudent for now, especially as the admins seem much more active now than in the past. I would like to address which admins one should reach out to (I imagine, for example, that this wouldn't need to be a red issue, but would it be a Purple/Blue/Green any combination thereof or could we have a stickied thread in Help! like for account activations?)
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Chara
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Post Post #63  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:05 pm

i am in favour of a bork's idea in 1), normalizing the display of pronouns, and having a more complete breakdown is probably not necessary in every post but is useful for the profile page.

as for the point in 3), i find it unnecessary (but not bad) to preemptively add popular pronouns that may not actually be in use, but am in favour of users having the ability to simply request their addition as they're needed, if it is true that such requests would be resolved in a timely way.
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Post Post #64  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:58 am

I still want the choice of 'You'. PokerFace, I choose YOU!
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