Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[mastina]

Anyways, I sorta feel like Kodak Moment either shouldn't exist, or should be much more limited in scope to "funny" moments.

Kodak moment is literally the only way to recognize several other things which are worthy of awards but which were rolled into Kodak moment.

For instance, it is expected for good town plays to be nominated as a Kodak moment, because there's no other award they are eligible for.
It is expected that a memorable town gambit which was for a single game be a Kodak moment, rather than a Paragon of Mafia Hunters award. (Memorable scum gambit can be either, but is probably Don Corelone.)
It is expected that a funny post/exchange is a Kodak moment, because we got rid of "most funny poster" (or whatever that Scummy was).

There are many things that Kodak moment is literally the only possible award for right now--so IF it were eliminated/more restricted, those things would have to have Scummies (re)added as categories...something the judges seem to have rather a large resistance to.

[Cerberus v666]

Just as an example, every other award banner informs those who see it about the player in question(with the exception of the "name should be in orange" award. They think " oh man, I should check out that persons next game they mod", or "I shouldn't assume this person is going to play poorly", or something along those lines.

Kodak Moment? You think oh, maybe I'll go look at the nominees for last year and see what they did. It's different.

Pedit: that's a problem then. The award is, as I said, entirely too broad.

[xRECKONERx]

Kodak Moment exists because we used to have an award for funniest player, an award for best fakeclaim, etc. And this was the combo of that because the other one felt too subjective.

mastin the entire context to my comment was about adding a kodak moment for LARGE SOCIAL GAMES not mafia games, those work incredibly differently from everything else.

[Cerberus v666]

How is increasing the scope of an award a way to limit how subjective it is?

Why is subjectivity even a concern? There's a large degree of subjectivity to all of the awards.

[Creature]

Good town play doesn't really fit Kodak Moment.

[xRECKONERx]

How is increasing the scope of an award a way to limit how subjective it is?

Why is subjectivity even a concern? There's a large degree of subjectivity to all of the awards.

Because it's one thing to say "hey which of these is most memorable"
it's another thing to say "hey guys what is funniest" because humor is completely different person to person.

And the best role claim award was very underutilized and inactive and nobody really paid attention to it so it got rolled up as well

[Pine]

Still think there should be a Best Town Performance award (just nominate who has actually influenced town).

Seriously, I'm seeing good town performances (mini 1869) being nominated for Kodak Moment.

Didn't we have a Best Performance in a Losing Cause award at one point? That's something I'd love to see make a return, several Town players in Camn's Revenge (mini 1869) would be worthy of a nomination.

[Pine]

To expand my point, it seems to be implied that a Best Scum/Town/Third Party nominee is defined as someone(s) who won in a particularly impressive fashion, which results in a de facto state that only winners are nominated. Well, what if both sides are performing at Scummy-worthy caliber? How about a Townie who is absolutely wrecking the scumteam, but gets nightkilled and loses because the rest of the Town drops the ball? How about the Don Corleone level scum player who gets killed by the Serial Killer or opposing scumteam for being too Town?

There are lots of situations where someone puts in a remarkable performance, but due to worthy opposition or circumstances outside their direct control, ends up losing anyway. I'd like to see those folks recognized.

Yes, I know, it overlaps with Best Town/Scum/TP, but this is a specific reward for someone who was already robbed of a deserved win, and is worthy of recognition.

[Cerberus v666]

Still think there should be a Best Town Performance award (just nominate who has actually influenced town).

Seriously, I'm seeing good town performances (mini 1869) being nominated for Kodak Moment.

Didn't we have a Best Performance in a Losing Cause award at one point? That's something I'd love to see make a return, several Town players in Camn's Revenge (mini 1869) would be worthy of a nomination.

To expand my point, it seems to be implied that a Best Scum/Town/Third Party nominee is defined as someone(s) who won in a particularly impressive fashion, which results in a de facto state that only winners are nominated. Well, what if both sides are performing at Scummy-worthy caliber? How about a Townie who is absolutely wrecking the scumteam, but gets nightkilled and loses because the rest of the Town drops the ball? How about the Don Corleone level scum player who gets killed by the Serial Killer or opposing scumteam for being too Town?

There are lots of situations where someone puts in a remarkable performance, but due to worthy opposition or circumstances outside their direct control, ends up losing anyway. I'd like to see those folks recognized.

Yes, I know, it overlaps with Best Town/Scum/TP, but this is a specific reward for someone who was already robbed of a deserved win, and is worthy of recognition.

Seconded. Impressive play is impressive regardless of how the game ends.

[Cerberus v666]

Still think there should be a Best Town Performance award (just nominate who has actually influenced town).

Seriously, I'm seeing good town performances (mini 1869) being nominated for Kodak Moment.

Didn't we have a Best Performance in a Losing Cause award at one point? That's something I'd love to see make a return, several Town players in Camn's Revenge (mini 1869) would be worthy of a nomination.

To expand my point, it seems to be implied that a Best Scum/Town/Third Party nominee is defined as someone(s) who won in a particularly impressive fashion, which results in a de facto state that only winners are nominated. Well, what if both sides are performing at Scummy-worthy caliber? How about a Townie who is absolutely wrecking the scumteam, but gets nightkilled and loses because the rest of the Town drops the ball? How about the Don Corleone level scum player who gets killed by the Serial Killer or opposing scumteam for being too Town?

There are lots of situations where someone puts in a remarkable performance, but due to worthy opposition or circumstances outside their direct control, ends up losing anyway. I'd like to see those folks recognized.

Yes, I know, it overlaps with Best Town/Scum/TP, but this is a specific reward for someone who was already robbed of a deserved win, and is worthy of recognition.

Seconded. Impressive play is impressive regardless of how the game ends.

At the same time, this is also sort if a "be the change you want to see" issue. People should nominate impressive players IN SPITE of the games ending in a loss. That could make this a moot point.

[Pine]

Not necessarily; this is looking to recognize something quite specific. You may also have a player who has a stellar individual game, but isn't really a candidate for a body of work award.

This is also where I agitate for a Body of Work - Scum award and a single-game Best Town Performance award. Rabble rabble rabble.

[Untrod Tripod]

It is likely that a Kodak Moment type of award for Large Social games will be included in next year's Scummies. I love the idea and we'll have to talk among the SSC about how to get that in there.

[xRECKONERx]

Still think there should be a Best Town Performance award (just nominate who has actually influenced town).

Seriously, I'm seeing good town performances (mini 1869) being nominated for Kodak Moment.

Didn't we have a Best Performance in a Losing Cause award at one point? That's something I'd love to see make a return, several Town players in Camn's Revenge (mini 1869) would be worthy of a nomination.

this never existed

[xRECKONERx]

Also Paragon doesn't require someone to win to get it

[mastina]

Didn't we have a Best Performance in a Losing Cause award at one point?

this never existed

Except it did?

...I mean it was apparently there only for one year, butstill, it existed when I joined. I honestly didn't know it didn't exist in other years.
(Incidentally, it can be amusing to read the much older scummies threads, and see which awards they had. Only four of the original 2003 Scummies still remain, if I counted them correctly. For 2009-onward, you can find them posted under the Scummies account.)

[Pine]

It may sharpen my recollections that those were the Scummies in progress when I was a Newbie.

[xRECKONERx]

Losing Cause was phased out almost immediately because it was redundant.

[xRECKONERx]

"never existed on my time on site" or "never existed in the past 8 years" maybe would've been better to say but i think it's irrelevant to what Pine was saying

[Cerberus v666]

Losing Cause was phased out almost immediately because it was redundant.

How is it redundant, given that I don't believe I've ever seen(granted, my history isn't long and I don't pay much attention to the scummies) a losing performance win an award for impressive play?

[xRECKONERx]

Plenty of BoW winners have won from games where they lost despite impressive play. Same with third party.

Someone not winning is not the same thing as it being excluded.

It's not a prerequisite. Losers can win awards too. None of the awards require winning.

[hiplop]

dont forget paragon is a body of work award

[Pine]

Okay, then perhaps let us shift the conversation to the lack of a BoW Scum award or a single-game Town award.

[Realeo]

I think single-game Town award has been discussed before. It was shafted because the award is no longer awarding good game but simply statistics (ie. They mislynch 1 town. Bad play).

I don't think BoW scum has been discussed here?

[Cerberus v666]

Plenty of BoW winners have won from games where they lost despite impressive play. Same with third party.

Someone not winning is not the same thing as it being excluded.

It's not a prerequisite. Losers can win awards too. None of the awards require winning.

BoW isn't a valid argument, since by it's nature the awards are based on the players BODY OF WORK.

[Pine]

Shrug. Good Townplay to me is not about guessing correctly, it's about the process. Just like I wouldn't nom a scum player/team for roflstomping a clueless and bickering Town, a clean Town win against a disorganized scumteam is hollow. Good Townplay is about the cool use of logic and perception against a worthy opponent, effectively gamesolving despite obstacles. A single-game Town award to me would look like a single player or a strong Townbloc defeating capable opposition, particularly if the scumteam possessed an initial advantage and the Townies rallied or came together, overcoming division to unify through leadership and teamwork.

There's quite a big difference between single-game performance, which may be influenced by environment, playerlist, circumstance, and the price of milk in Newark, versus consistent patterns of solid play as represented in BoW awards. It has never made sense to me why Town was a BoW and scum an individual award.