Mechanics (Armor System)

Amstaad
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Mechanics (Armor System)

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:35 pm

Post by DeathNote »

All thoughts and suggestions about Armor or really any sort of inventory that players will require throughout the game go here. Please be thoughtful and constructive to others opinions and please feel free to contribute.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:30 am

Post by Bub Bidderskins »

I think armour should be simple. Each armour can subtract from the opponent's combat margin of sucess, but not below zero, because armour doesn't really help you in combat unless you get hit. I was thinking there could be two types of armour: heavy and light. Light armour gives -1 to opponent's combat margin of sucess, and heavy gives -2, but also gives -1 to all movement related roles. This is simple and would work, the only problem is that there are only two types of armour.

If you want more types of armour you might want to either think up a different system, or find other advantages and disadvantages that different armour types can give. For instance, there may be a mage armour that gives 0 to opponent's CMOS, but it gives +1 to magic roles. Maybe you could make mail armour, which gives a -2 to slashing weapons like katanas but 0 for piercing weapons like arrows and spears. Maybe there could be a ceremonial type armour that doesn't give any real benefit except +1 on rolls dealing with communicating with the public.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:32 am

Post by inspiratieloos »

You forgot the 'health bar' in your combat explanation.

My suggestions:
-1 to opponent MoS if your armour > opponents weapon and he hits you
+1 to MoS if your weapon > his armour and you hit him
+1 to combat if you are in preferred range and your opponent is not
-1 to combat if you have a extremely bad weapon (rusted/broken)
Must defend if you are in long range with short weapon or short range with long weapon.

-1 to movement if opponent has lighter armour
-1 to movement if you have extremely heavy armour


Movement and combat switch off, winner of the movement roll gets 1 step closer to wanted range (close <-> average <-> long) on CMoS =<2, on CMoS >2 can move from long to close, roll for movement is agility or similar.

A rich character will almost always have a +1 bonus in combat due to better armour+weapon, a thieflike character will almost always fight in preferred range, but a warrior character has higher base weapon rolls, so it all balances out... Hopefully.

Since there is no combat mechanics thread:
Range vs. melee combat:
Ranger has a 'out of melee range CMoS', the ranger fires/casts at the opponent's 'health' while the opponent is moving in closer.
CMoS 0 -> steps closer
CMoS 1 -> Cover (ranger -1 next attack roll)
CMoS 2-4 -> Out of effective range (Ranger -1 all attacks)
CMoS 5-6 -> Almost there (Ranger -2 all attacks)
CMoS 7+ -> Melee range (Ranger can't use ranged attack, if no other weapon, an arrow counts as a extremely bad knife)

Melee character counts as defending against all ranger attacks, ranger is at -3 for movement rolls as long as he's firing. Ranger does not gain anything for winning movement rolls. Roll for movement is athletics or similar. Ranger can not get back out of melee range except by fleeing (however that works).

I went for maximum realism and balance here maybe at a (too high) cost of simplicity.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:10 am

Post by CooLDoG »

Why does being rich have to balance out with being poor? I though the whole idea of an RPG was to play what you wanted and accept that. Not make it into some super balance Starcraft mach. If you are poor you probably are going to have a rougher go at just about everything, just like in real life.

For me, I really don't give a shit about balance, I care about realism. I have never played an RPG before, so I really don't know how you guys assign values to all of the equipment... My only suggestion is to make the game as close to "fantasy life" as possible. Don't worry about balance between rich poor x race or y race, just set the initial conditions and let people play what they want to play.

But, I do know that people will try to game the system and try to make over powered PCs, however, they will soon realize that beating the shit out of everything with no effort is not fun. It is the journey not the end result that makes an RPG fun.

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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:46 pm

Post by inspiratieloos »

If you are poor, you'll probably have skills in other areas to compensate (faster/better fighter), if you don't then you have a problem.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:22 am

Post by CooLDoG »

How is that really a problem? But you will gain some unique skills like street smarts and a knowledge of the local geography that a rich person wouldn't.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:24 am

Post by inspiratieloos »

If you get into a fight your richer opponent will always have +1 due to better equipment, if you don't compensate that by having combat skills where he has skills that give him his money you're going to lose. You can of course choose a character with completely different skills, but you'll have to avoid all combat.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:26 pm

Post by CooLDoG »

Ahh, I see.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:42 pm

Post by DeathNote »

I like some of what you said inspiratieloos and movement is of course key. I think the original plan was for the winner of combat to be able to chose which direction he wished to move. The combat example was of a Guard and Thief with the Thief wanting to get in close. Because the Guard won combat, he was able to move back one step which put the Thief at a disadvantage and -1 MoS.

Still... I think implementing a Movement turn would be beneficial. Head on over to the combat thread that I just created and we can discuss a possible order in which actions will be carried out when in combat.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat May 26, 2012 9:45 am

Post by Bub Bidderskins »

I know we're not really discussing armour right now, but I'm going to throw done this idea so I don't forget it later. We can discuss this when the time comes.

The way that armour works now is that it reduces the combat margin of victory by a certain amount. This is good and simple. The only problem is that it doesn't allow for many different types of armour, because a reduction of 2 is extremely powerful, and and reduction of anything more would make the person nearly invincible. My idea deals with the level of coverage the armour provides. We can split the body up into roughly five sections:

head
torso
arms
legs
feet

You can buy armour for each of these parts of the body, and when you do it will increase your
armour coverage
. Armour coverage is expressed as a percentage, and represents what percent of your body is covered with armour. We could make each section equal 20% coverage, or make the torso worth more and the hands less, or something else. We can work that out later. Regardless, whenever an opponent attacks, you roll a D100. If the roll is below your armour coverage, then then you were hit in an armoured area, and the armour bonus applies. If the result is greater than your armour coverage, then you were hit in an unarmoured area and the damage reduction does not apply.

This allows for more variety in the armour types, since some armour might have less than 100% coverage, even if all parts of the body are covered. However, this may be off-set with a higher damage reduction, less movement penalty (or a movement bonus), or some other bonus. We can work that out when we get to items.

I don't think we should discuss this now, since I don't want to distract from the magic discussion, but I do want to throw this out there so I don't forget about it later.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:58 pm

Post by sajid »

For instance, there may be a mega Armour that gives 0 to opponent's C MOS, but it gives +1 to magic roles. Maybe you could make mail Armour, which gives a -2 to slashing weapons like Astana but 0 for piercing weapons like arrows and spears.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat May 18, 2013 2:42 pm

Post by jeep »

I know this is old, but are you really going to have an Armor system? I like what they put in the latest Fate rules.
Before you go crazy making weapons and armor charts for your campaign,
you should stop and think about whether their inclusion is really going to
make that much of a difference in your conflict scenes.
The reason we say this is because the first thing your players will want to
do is eliminate the effectiveness of whatever their opponents have by armoring
up. And unless you want your NPCs to get slaughtered, eventually you’re
going to have to do the same. If everyone is nearly always the equal of everyone
else in terms of weapons and armor, you have a zero-sum game, and
you might as well just go back to making everyone roll their default skills.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat May 18, 2013 11:22 pm

Post by inspiratieloos »

We know that. Basically you can get +1/-1 on rolls if there's a significant difference in the quality of armour/weapons with your opponent. Maybe -2 if you're so badly equipped that you should wonder what you're even doing in a fight.
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