I feel like it's getting to a point where we have to lynch one or the other for our sanity, and following Math's logic that: If NSG is town, even though he caused a mislynch, he is still town... It's probably better to lynch Math as he's saying her flip isn't going to determine his alignment anyway.
In post 522, CheekyTeeky wrote:Well he promised us a vote and he lied. Lynch all liars right?
Sorry - I fell asleep.
In post 534, Not_Mafia wrote:And Penguin previously prevaricated pertaining to my posts, saying I had 12 when I had 11, I thought it was my 13th posts but I had been duped
You weren't duped by me. You had 12 posts when I said you did - ISO starts with post 0.
What's the point of this post? I'd think if he actually was reveling in it it would be a bit more emotive, something like "Isn't it great how Mathdino is being PLed after advocating for one himself?" Maybe showy doesn't describe it best, it feels like he's going through a set of steps rather than actually making genuine jokes and such.
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.
I mean I don't think that's wholly inaccurate but I also don't see how telling me I'm trying to metaread everyone is a criticism of my play? I've been on kind of a meta kick lately across the board. Part of it I think is talking to Ellibereth about townplay.
Incoming self-defence that's more trying to help you see how I play:
I use meta primarily to nullify tells and reads, not to pinpoint people as town or scum.
So my general thought process is something like:
- Oh shit, Something_Smart is doing a ton of things that are SuperTown.
- But Smart is a really good/experienced player... he could probably fake those as scum.
- Okay, I'll metadive his scumgames to see if he can fake that kind of content easily. (I didn't read his towngames at all, because I was trying to nullify a towntell, not a scumtell)
- Doesn't look like he creates that kind of content effortlessly as scum. He's probably town here.
Same thing with Red:
- Red is making a bunch of nuanced posts that read like he's coming at things from a town perspective.
- I've played 2 scumgames with Red, and skimming those ISOs, he comes across as an actual crazy person.
- Stands to reason that he's not scum here, because he can't fake that content.
Then consider NSG:
- NSG has produced very little game-relevant content when she's been here.
- I know her towngame, and her gameplay this early game is not something I've seen before from town-NSG.
- Doesn't look like it's just NAI null shit, so she's probably scum here.
My reads come from the game I'm in. Then I get paranoid as to whether what I'm reading is just a NAI nulltell. So I go check their meta and see if their behaviour is something I should expect from them all the time.
You were literally just read incorrectly by meta in the game we just played together. From that, I can reasonably argue that you shift your meta effortlessly, and, as scum, are steps ahead of your previous scumgames. It would be idiotic for me to go and metaread you when that's exactly how people got you wrong in that game. So my read on you has been solely based on this game.
I'll actually re-read Red because if the argument is nuanced reads I'd have to check for those
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
because you're about the only person I don't townread (other than Not_Mafia who I'm not going to push at this point in time) and I've seen you do towny things early on in other games
DOUBLY so if Creature turns out to be town through the day. Creature's read was right on point. I'll give NSG a couple chances to explain to me why exactly I think that.
And yes, this is a test, the response may very well affect this read. Please do actually explain why I, personally, Mathdino, am scumreading you. I wanna see if you're seeing the same things.
oh, so this is where it started. my guess is that it's mainly my activity, but if i had to guess i'd also say it's probably because of my questioning / vote of jmo.
In post 369, Mathdino wrote:I'm not like 100% confident enough in this read to speedlynch her without a reaction.
That was half a lie; she didn't really explain how to read her, but we went over our respective scumgames and she more demonstrated that I COULD read her. Honestly I think we've just seen each other too much at this point. I don't expect her to be the easiest sort ever for others but I'd like to think I can gutread her, even if she's only posted however few times.
Math, i'm going to say this right now, and it applies to anyone who thinks they can metaread me off of the first few posts in a game, now or in the future – you're only going to get burned. Keep going down this path and one of these days i'll have a good start as scum and will get false cleared or one of these days i'll get lynched as town early for just having a weak rvs. It's already happened to RC before. I honestly don't really enjoy the prevailing conception about my meta so far (i think it's just a function of me rolling town so much more often than scum) and so i'm waiting for the game where it's disproven – i'd rather that not be this game where my town flip is what disproves it.
In post 549, Mathdino wrote:@NSG: Benefit of the doubt here. Why did you not seem to give a shit that I was locktowning you early on?
because i believe that
you
believe that you can read me based off of three posts. yeah, of course i saw the similarity to anything upick – the thing is, i expect you to do the same thing as town. so... it didn't really factor into my read of you at all.
think you can read me from three posts. i know that RC thinks that. so it wasn't really anything out of the ordinary? i also don't really feel like my play was anything out of the ordinary like it was in anything upick where there was a disconnect between
my own meta read of myself
based off of a few posts and what you were saying.
tl;dr: I fake-locktowned NSG to see her reaction. She didn't react all paranoid-like, so I called her as scum. She still didn't react all paranoid like, noting that
she believes that I think I can read her very easily
posts in a game. I'm not creature – yes, I can obvtown as town – the fact that I apparently haven't done so by page 8 is supposed to be a scumclaim? I also get the feeling that people are just equating my post length with my towniness rather than anything i'm actually saying. I can write walls as scum – it doesn't mean anything and i've done it before.
In post 215, northsidegal wrote:math, you're making the same mistake that katy made with regard to my "paranoid theory" comment – assuming that i was making that point as anything more than a simple observation / point of discussion. if i was "jumping on you" for that, i would've moved my vote to you (same with the postie/rt comment). i believed that it was entirely reasonable that you actually were regretting joining for whatever reason unrelated to your alignment, and given that i would have no way of proving what your disappointment was caused by, it would've been an entirely pointless avenue of discussion to persue.
In post 223, Mathdino wrote:No but that's the thing. It was a bad point, and given the pace of the game and the players already willing to go after me, it was fanning a flame that shouldn't have been fanned in the first place.
I would've understood if you, for example, pressure-wagoned me (like Cheeky), or pressure-interrogated me for more info. But you floated an idea out there in an already unstable gamestate that would only add more noise.
I'm not sure what you're scumreading me for here. Are you trying to say that me giving a short observation on a topic that someone else had brought up brings you materially closer to a lynch than choosing to hop on the wagon would? Like, i have no idea what "floating an idea out there in an unstable gamestate that only adds more noise" is actually supposed to mean, nor how it would make me scum.
[snip]
Math, how confident would you say you are in your read on me as of right now?
conflicted – i'm not sure how much he actually believes that the "prefers town" comment makes me scum and i know that he doesn't put a lot of weight into early game reads so it seems kind of strange, but as scum i would've expected him to try to pocket me more by defending me rather than trying to use knowledge of my meta to get a lynch on me.
In post 656, northsidegal wrote:i still scumread mathdino for his push on me and the entire weak justification for that. feels like he's trying to use a claimed knowledge of my meta as a tool
against
me moreso than to try to read me, if that makes sense – he's never once really tried to engage with me or to try to figure out
why
i'm not posting so much and if he really knows my meta and he's being genuine then he should know that inactivity doesn't always make me scum.
From here, we get the inconsistent OMGUS reaction, with (notably) the deflection with "you're just trying to activity-tell me", when that wasn't my case in the first place.
Near the end, she notes that she thinks scum-me would try to pocket her rather than try to use meta against her, but much later on pivots to "Math is scum for trying to use meta against me". I don't know how much she believes either of these statements, but if she legit thought my scum-strategy would just be to pocket her as town, that's clearly against what I'm doing here.
Anyway, read the spoilers, the reactions are different. Yadda yadda scum by meta. That shit is boring. The kicker is here:
In post 144, northsidegal wrote:i don't really like the idea of policy lynching just to set up for future games – it feels kind of weird, like playing towards a future wincondition or something. not even a future wincondition, but maybe even just sacrificing parts of this game to have a potentially better next game. i'd really rather just lynch scumreads.
doesn't it also assume that whoever we're policy lynching is on the losing team for this game?
She shows understanding of how I view this game. She also knows that when there are multiple win conditions, I'm not the type of person to stick to just one. She doesn't like it, but she understands it.
I've been fooled by scum-N_M, scum-CT, and scum-Bambi, and I've misread town-Gamma. And since she read Polygamist, she'd also know I've been fooled by scum-RedFlavor. I have not played with Penguin or Smart as town.
The ONLY player in this game I have a consistent track record of reading is NSG. She also knows that I think I can read her very easily. She also knows that I think she's an easily readable player; she demonstrated that in Be Yourself.
So suppose she's town and I'm scum. I obviously have to assume I'm going to win (because if I lose I'm out of the next game). And I'm more likely to roll town next game than scum.
So why would I want to remove the one player in this playerlist that I think I can read 100% of the time, when doing so would be blatantly against future wincons?
She clearly believes I'm actually trying to get her lynched, so from her POV, this can't be a case of "Math is just softpushing me for towncred". And she also understands why I wanted to policy lynch Bambi and N_M (so I wouldn't have to deal with them next game when I 5/7 roll town).
Scumreading me for pushing her is not only indicative of scum-NSG, it's also ridiculous given that she's framed me as someone who thinks I can read her 100% of the time (to the point where I signed up to spectate her Newbie Games during Tit for Tat just to be better at reading her).
The response to this is "something something WIFOM". Whatever. She's right that I play politically, and she's goddamn right I will play to future wincons. NSG is the last person I would want to mislynch, and the fact that I'm voting her right now is indicative of how sure I am on this. I would just add on:
- NSG knows she can obvtown as town, and knows that I face burden of proficiency in reading her correctly. Thinking I'm scum opportunistically jumping on her when in reality that would be suicide, is bad, and consistent with her reaction in Be Yourself.
- NSG three times framed my case as "you're just activity telling me" when that was explicitly not the case.
tl;dr: She OMGUS'd in a situation where it made no sense for scum-Mathdino to be trying to remove her from future games. NSG is scum.
I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit. VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
In post 529, Mathdino wrote:I will accept lynching {N_M, Bambi} today on the condition that NSG MUST be lynched on D2 or D3.
I'll need to see a case on Gamma; the biggest point against him right now is him being active everywhere else, but that's not much.
Cheeky is a bad D1 lynch.
Smart and Red are town.
Penguin I'm not nearly annoyed enough by right now to lynch him, especially not before doing a metadive (tm).
I don't like people activity telling me by saying "he's active elsewhere". My activity in a game is dictated purely by whether I feel like playing it at the time. This one's slow and dull imo.
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
