Micro 814: Geriatric Trio (Mafia Victory!!!)

[nonny]

VOTE: Komala for being first to post, way too eager.

[nonny]

VOTE: Komala for being first to post, way too eager.

What's wrong with being eager and why is it bad to be first to post but it's ok to be second or fifth?

Same reason having coyote in your name makes you a werewolf. Do I need to spell out random vote?

[nonny]

it's like you were nibbling on a kittens ear and then Cheesy said "WHATS EVERYONE LOOKIN AT? IT'S FINE TO EAT KITTENS." I don't really think you were full on eating that kitten but it's real real bad Cheesy wanted to let you.

This may be my favorite analogy ever.

More seriously the whole wagon seems off but not sure which side feels off more. The two back to back votes with no reasons posted is odd, understanding saying wagons are good in RVS but you could still say why you are voting, i.e if you agreed with MoI's interpretation of the no random vote from oath.

Secondly, Cheesy's post 24 is weird. So oath's wagon is justified but you aren't continuing it?

RedCoyote, though... remarks that they agree with MoI's reservation and is the one that asserts I should have more to offer 5 posts in- lol - then votes Invisibility? If you agree with MoI, who's to say Invisibility didn't as well? Or again could have been wagoning like they suggested? In which case, a reaction test or early wagon tends to be easier to manipulate if people know that's why you're doing it.

Sorry, are you saying wagons are best unexplained? Because that's what it sounds like, so they can't be "manipulated" but then they also can't be read (and also can't be used for AI reads). This makes no sense. Voting just to vote in RVS is one thing, voting and perpetuating a wagon without posting reasons seems ill advised.

[nonny]

i'm not sure what to think right now other than that hito is likely town

Ditto. I also get a town lean on MoI.

[nonny]

Nothing big to post right now. Am also looking for a Cheesy response. VOTE: cheesy hope that encourages a post to happen.

L-2

[nonny]

Cheesy is your least suspicious but you want to vote for him? Am I reading your list correctly?

[nonny]

Nothing big to post right now. Am also looking for a Cheesy response. VOTE: cheesy hope that encourages a post to happen.

Who in your mind is most likely to be Cheesy’s partner if he is scum?

Currently I only have an idea of who I think is not. Also, hard to look for scum partner until there is confirmed scum. Cheesy is the scummiest currently. That doesn't mean he's confirmed scum. Not sure I want to isolate reads based on a guess in very early game stages.

[nonny]

@ nonny: In 31 you imply that Cheesy should have done the same. Why would you want a wagon at L-1 at this stage of the game?

Coyote's the right place to park your votes for now, ladies and gents.

This was the part I was focusing on. Not saying he had to vote for Oath. He was telling others to vote for someone else. He happened to already be parked there from RVS. Either, he didn't believe in the Oath wagon like the claimed in that very same post, or he was trying to split the town between to wagons while supporting both.

[nonny]

MagnaofIllusion and nonny require prods

Searching for a replacement for RedCoyote

I’m here, busy weekend with the kids >.< will catch up and do full post tonight.

[nonny]

Cheesy is your least suspicious but you want to vote for him? Am I reading your list correctly?

No, I think you're reading my list upside down. I believe I mentioned town reading Invisibility and being suspicious of Cheesy, so why did you think Cheesy was my least suspicious?

The way the list was set up was just throwing me off. The --null-- made it seem like below that was null. Also, I'm just used to seeing lists more labeled or listed most to least. I assumed I was reading it incorrectly but asked for clarification because I didn't want to just assume.

Based on reads I want to vote Cheesy at the moment, but since I'm not really familiar with this site's voting mechanics (I'm used to plurality deadline lynches) I don't know if it's a good idea to put somebody at L-1 this early. Can anyone help me out here?

If you think a vote is warranted, then I say go for it. I don't think we're quite at hat stage yet, but I have been slacking on activity. Ultimately, your vote should be representative of you and not what is politically acceptable.

The quote from Komala does stand out as odd. Where else do you play that mechanics are that different? If you feel like a vote would help then apply it but if it is L-1 make sure it's announced.

On the other side the response from Coyote is slightly off putting to me, mostly that last sentence. I'm not sure Komala's hesitancy was based on being politically acceptable vs being unfamiliar with game play. Adding that last piece of advice alters the context of the original post in a way. Makes it read like Komala was trying to sheep or appease to an audience as it were. I may be reading into this but thought it worth picking apart.

This was the part I was focusing on. Not saying he had to vote for Oath. He was telling others to vote for someone else. He happened to already be parked there from RVS. Either, he didn't believe in the Oath wagon like the claimed in that very same post, or he was trying to split the town between to wagons while supporting both.

Post 24 doesn't read to me like Cheesy was scumreading Oath much, if at all. Just that he could understand the wagon on him. So it makes sense for him to vote someone else.

RE:Oath: His wagon's justified, Music Box and Invisibility should be commended for helping it unfold. Meanwhile, I find Coyote's reaction really weird. Instead of pushing the wagon forwards, in hopes of getting a strong reaction- especially that he agrees with the reasoning- he's voting Invisibility?

Maybe I'm naive but stating a wagon is justified implies some scum read. Why would a wagon be justified on someone you town read? Again, it stood out as odd to support a wagon and push a new one at the same time. Its an odd juxtaposition.

[nonny]

I don't think I'm ignoring it MusicBox. My first statement on the matter was that the post was weird, which it is. Are you treating it as stream of consciousness? Because I think that what it's meant to appear as, but even then why wouldn't you clean it up before actually posting it? Saying the first wagon is justified at the least is buddying, but again why would you say a wagon is justified that you don't feel is legitimate?
And yes, he did do the same thing as RC while calling him on it, he can try to paint it differently but they do look similar, I noticed that when skim back through the other day.

What I don't get is why you are so focused on this? What do you feel you've found from this interaction of tearing apart a post(sentence) based on a player who isn't even in game anymore?

[nonny]

nonny:
-RVS votes Komala for being first to post.
-Puts Cheesy at L-2. I'm curious why this vote didn't come in Post 31. Vote has stayed there since.
---Nonny's posting seems more like justifying her own vote than pushing the scum read itself, if that makes sense. Not sure what to make of that.

My vote initially was because I wanted to see a Cheesy response as well, he has since left and so makes my reason for the vote no longer valid maybe, I considered unvoting but currently don't see anywhere else I want to vote and you're not L-2 or above, so figured it was as good a place as any currently. Probably not the best sense but that's where I'm at. Does it make you nervous that it's sitting there?

also i'm voting oath because she is the most scumme
i'm going to iso people tomorrow and try to get more reads

This seems a little odd. Maybe the confidence that Oath will not be lynched prior to being able to do the promised reads? I know kmd unvoted so the risk of quick hammer is minimal (never impossible with more than one scum alive), just feels off.

Post 102 this actually makes sense. Its very unconventional but the logic seems sound. Though never like the prospect of a townie offering themself up as a mislynch, nor saying I want to go ahead and lynch him. It's very town, which could also be very WIFOM/gambit but feels genuine.

[nonny]

Does it make you nervous that it's sitting there?

No. I'm only at like two votes lol. Your post doesn't really satisfy my concerns by the way.

Don't think I'm here to satisfy your concerns *shrug*

Oath....you know you're not really lynched, right?

[nonny]

Responding or conversing is not the same as satisfying concerns. For one I don’t know if we have the same goals so therefore satisfying your concerns could be fruitless. Same could be said of anyone at this stage. Nothing is confirmed, even a strong town read is just a guess. So why should I worry about satisfying your concerns?

It seems, there is a hyper vigilance toward votes/voting in this crew. Mysicbox is being called out for not voting. Your (kmd) iso read was purely looking at votes. While, yes, votes are important and our only power I don’t see it as the most important focus. You can get a read based on who someone is not voting too. Or on content of posts. There are just more indicators. Some players throw votes around, and can be used for pressure, and obviously for lynching. But, I’m just not a player to throw mine around. I will change it when I see a need to change it. Unvoting seems pointless right now, if that’s wrong to you please elaborate. Based on what has been said I’m sure even if I did unvote and leave my vote without a home you’d still find issue, correct? So why would I change my manner of voting just to placate your preference?

[nonny]

You seem to be misunderstanding me. I don't care if you unvote or not. It makes no difference. My point was that your ISO seems to have the mindset of "I think my own play is ok" rather than "here's what I think of other people". I know that's common for players who are being wagoned, but you've faced very little pressure so it stands out quite a bit to me.

Hmm okay. I was misunderstanding your focus. I’m not good at reads, or sorely out of practice. This is first non newbie game since my hiatus (of 10 years). Not excuse, just explanation. I’ve re-read the thread twice this week and looked at ISO’s frequently, most is null to me so far except the last ~10posts.

[nonny]

I'm not keen on any of the other wagons but if it comes down to choosing between them then I'd be voting RC.

Why RC? Why not Invisibility?

Those voting RC (oath and hito) can you say more about why you're voting him? Went back and read the vote posts because I really couldn't recall clearly why.

also i'm voting oath because she is the most scumme
i'm going to iso people tomorrow and try to get more reads

How's this going?

NOW - that's that. I'm town- go back and reevaluate all your reads and stop pushing up on weak shit.

Do you have a read to share that isn't "pushing up on weak shit"? How do you feel about the posts since your claim?

VOTE: Invisibility

[nonny]

So.... you aren't scum reading anyone, at all?

[nonny]

UNVOTE: and

mod I will be v/la from tomorrow 7/27 until 7/31

Will be able to post some but will only have mobile access and not sure how much. Not confident enough in my vote the leave it there.

[nonny]

In post 104 I noted Vizzy’s post that felt off, then followed up on the promised read in post 121. I just finished a game with Vizzy so have seen the sporadac posting but that game he was scum and when put at L-1 he pretty much gave up. I was curious to see if the same result would occur, odds were low but still interesting to see. MoI do you only vote for players you scum read?

You can read into that post if you like Hito, but please also notice musicbox stating which wagon he’d do at deadline with no reasoning posted. That’s really all I was asking. How’d he pick that wagon over the other? (Withdrawing the oath wagon due to current confusion over it)

mod can you post new deadline countdown just for clarification

[nonny]

I mean I've basically said that if you believe AT ALL that I'm scum you need to lynch me. Your worries will only grow and become a distraction the longer I'm left alive.

At this point it looks like we’ve moved on, though the deadline may changes things. So are you going to keep singularly talking about your lynch or are you going to help find scum? All in all your VT claim doesn’t amount to as much as you are saying it does, anyone can claim VT. It did give information with how quickly you wanted to supply it and the reactions after. But really you should still be participating.

[nonny]

VOTE: Oath you weren’t even asked to claim at L-1 you just offered it. So saying we are going to string someone else up to L-1 for another claim is a possibility but don’t see it as a certainty. A VT should still participate, yes you may have a different play style but VT’s job is to hunt scum, but not even mentioning your opinions you give us less to work with D2 if you are the Lynch (or NK). Basically your flip will amount to less. Why do you want to put the town at a disadvantage? To me it currently looks petty and stubborn if you are town, looks like a gambit if you are scum. You are right the WIFOM is not worth it, especially if your participation is a factor.

[nonny]

MoI do you only vote for players you scum read?

Um … yes. I really want to know why you asked this because to me that’s basic Mafia 101. Aside from a compromise lynch at deadline or pure policy lynch I don’t see voting people who you don’t scum read. Especially if it is in some sort of “gambit” which I think is the most useless part of the Mafia lexicon that people still try to utilize and generally fail 99.5% of the time.

Maybe semantics but you never do reaction votes or pressure votes? Like to see how a null read or only slight scum read will respond?

Also this originally had to you with your question on my invisibility vote, which I’ve already explained my vote there.

[nonny]

VOTE: n_m
good wagon

Tell me more, please. Right now just looks like sheeping.

[nonny]

VOTE: n_m
good wagon

Tell me more, please. Right now just looks like sheeping.

wagons generate AI content
RC/NM slot has made like 3 posts that are real posts (not prodging or n_m spamming)

Right now just looks like sheeping.

also this is gross
pedit: nevermind it makes sense

Fair enough. Thanks for expanding.

Will do a re-read and post more tomorrow.

[nonny]

Doing my re-read now and will post soon. Sorry for delay had real life issues come up.

Ceejay, what's with the naked vote?

[nonny]

Like post 48 seems like a good summary from Komala.

My suspicion of Music Box is starting to rise. This game is hardly a font of over-posting. But looking at his ISO there really is nothing there. I need to go back and look at the game we were partners in and review the Mafia PT to see if he ever acknowledged lurking while not under pressure as a viable strategy.

Was this followed up on? Not that I see, and can't be now

Music box, do you find Oath, cheesy, and nonny scummy for believing L-1 votes should have been made?

In post 48, I asked a question to you specifically and also whether it's a good idea to put somebody at L-1 in the early game, which seems like something you have an opinion on considering this post, so why didn't you answer my questions?

I put off answering that because I wanted to get replies to my questions in 54 before doing so, in case my comments affected the responses to that. Re: Oath; it was mainly a gut feeling. Re: L-1; no it's not good to put someone at L-1 in early game because of the risk of an accidental - or intentional - early hammer before they have a chance to claim.

But, when do people claim outside of L-1 (obv besides CC)? How do you get to a claim without getting to L-1? (not advocating for L-1 or early L-1) This reasoning seems off.

Ceejay, it's pretty disconcerting that you're doing ISOs. If you read the thread enough to gather that there was a "lot of content", why not give summary reads on the game as a whole? Did you not have a single opinion when reading the thread sequentially?

This.

Hito that's easier to do later on. I was commenting more on the fact that current scum reads on him are based on things he also does as town.

So far he hasn't done anything. So how does this work?

What do you mean by "get off Oath so publicly then get back on"? Nonny was never on Oath until 161, when Oath, NM and Invisibility had two votes each, and nonny chose to vote Oath instead of following up on her previous vote, which was apparently just for pressure? 161 gave me the feeling she was blaming Oath for the vote, knowing she was town, even though there were two other wagons she could have gone on instead.

Correct, I wasn't on oath until EoD. Viz did start posting so did not vote back there, even though still odd he has/had no scum reads. I was very transparent in my vote on Oath, if you can't be bothered to help and want yourself lynched then why not? Obviously didn't want a townie strung up, but being unhelpful is anti-town, should have to pull teeth for participation, and there was still slight nagging feeling it could be scum gambit (obv wrong now). But, with the flip I assumed you'd still be after me so saw it coming really.

Music box: who else do you scumread? Who do you think is buddies? From re-read I really only see you tunneling on me, and it was from "gut"

Want to see more content from Ceej and N_M.

[nonny]

I had no clue you could just search for old PTs, the PT use is new since when I last played, seen them linked after games but didn’t realize it that easy to search for, thanks for the education.

I didn’t say I want claims, I asked when else do claims occur? You’re worried about a hammer prior to a claim, but people barely from what I’ve seen claim at L-2 for example.

[nonny]

N_M can you please post more than two words?

Ceejay can you answer the questions from previous page?

[nonny]

N_M can you please post more than two words?

Ceejay can you answer the questions from previous page?

What question there are no questions for me on the previous page

Okay, same page (now previous page) Hito’s post 201 and my 209

[nonny]

Doing my re-read now and will post soon. Sorry for delay had real life issues come up.

Ceejay, what's with the naked vote?

Because I think NM is scum...

Let me guess “because reasons”?

[nonny]

@ nonny:

Did you finish your reread? What are your current reads?

Yes, I posted things I found while reading. Sadly it’s not a lot and I still don’t have strong reads currently not happy with n_m and ceejay but feel it’s partially posting style, but lack of contribution is awful in a game that is already light as is.

[nonny]

Is it bad that the game pace is making me want to just hammer? N_M does appear scummy and like he’s hiding behind meta but we are also crawling along slower than a snails pace.

[nonny]

Hito: I did ask for more from people, I may just suck at engaging others but am totally exasperated at this point. I’m not engaging you because so fat I agree with your reads and your push on ceejay.

[nonny]

I was pretty salty last night, on a sober re-read I retract roughly 30% of my anger

that's it though

I feel you should have just done a “mic drop” instead.

[nonny]

So sell me on your votes in your next posts. Like I said, not_mafia voters have a bit of a special time with this, so instead you can have the alternative assignment of making the case that this broader wagonflow still makes sense with not_mafia scum. Take this seriously because the red names are sitting and really hoping you don't.

That's the problem. It doesn't make sense unless there's bussing going on, either mutual or one way. Without bussing nonny has more possible partners, so do Cj and Invis. But they would've known the heat was going to be on NM in Day 2 and planned accordingly, so we can't rule anything out.

Can you explain what you mean more, please? Not sure I'm fully getting what you're trying to say.

[nonny]

I feel you should have just done a “mic drop” instead.

this is a sassy post from someone who has neither voted nor done the n_m alternate homework assignment

who is scum

Because I don't have any convincing points on n_m scum aside from what's already been pointed out, which stems from lack of any content and from being basically anti-town. RC was more scum lean than komala was so I'd lean towards n_m over ceejay from that too. I don't like grasping at straws and overall feel frustrated that that seems to be all there is right now. Feel like we need more information which seems more likely to come from a lynch then from actual posting given how the last several (real time) days have gone. I'm not voting because the only person I see worth voting right now is still at L-1 but I'm not quite sure enough to hammer.

[nonny]

Too tired to do things. Still like my vote where it is.

Seriously? How about you actually answer Viz’s 258 instead of just throwing shade?

[nonny]

It’s like the name gets longer with each replacement, like the opposite of those Russian nesting dolls.

Hello Michel, thoughts on the game?

[nonny]

So to clarify you are voting me simply based on who else is voting me?

[nonny]

Not sure how I didn’t register prior that musicboc wasn’t voting me. Pings me as weird. Since she was seemingly focused on me. Whole interaction feels off.
VOTE: musicbox/vote]

Hard to scumhunt, Michel, when everyone is seemingly tip toeing with nothing standing out as overtly scummy. I’ve voiced my frustration in the lack of content numerous times while asking questions and trying to generate content. My v/la wasn’t as limited as I had expected, not going to defend my oath vote, I voiced all I need to about it day 1.

I have nothing to claim. I’m as vanilla as can be.

[nonny]

Given deadline is less than 6hours and I know I’m a bad lynch. VOTE: not_mafia

[nonny]

No message

[nonny]

No message

Oh and I claimed yesterday but VT.

KMD?

[nonny]

How likely do you all think it is that the term "hammerkeeper" in post #173 was interpreted as a crumb by the scumteam? Was there anything else that could have given away that hito was jailkeeper? "Hammerkeeper" is the only thing I can find, and there are a couple of scumpairings that I feel would only make the hito kill if they knew he was a powerrole.

This “breadcrumb” feels like a stretch and only stands out if you are looking for it. I don’t think scum would only kill Hito due to thinking him a powerrole as you state. Hito was the most active townie which in of itself can be a threat to scum. But, he also had the most solid feeling scum reads. So we can’t discount he was right and a liability for scum. Which would be bad for you from his last few posts. I agree with kmd it seems like you are preemptively defending that conclusion.

[nonny]

Oops, my bad for not double checking. By KMD I meant musicbox.

[nonny]

Working in digesting the new information. Will probably re-read and do ISO’s based on the flips. Agree with first part of musicbox’s 337. Will post more tonight.

[nonny]

mod: Can you update post 1 playerlist pretty please? Think I know most of it but would be nice to see all in one place. Thanks

[nonny]

mod: Can you update post 1 playerlist pretty please? Think I know most of it but would be nice to see all in one place. Thanks

I 100% forgot that was a thing a Mod is supposed to do.
It has now been updated!

Thanks!

(though ceejay is no longer in game )

Okay made it half way through a re-read and it became a chore. So going to try something different currently musicbox is fairly high on my scum list reading back to early game the contribution (in a low contribution game) was lacking at best and hyper focus on 1-2 things only. So I'm going to look at possible teams.

Michel/Komala and Musicbox: Does not seem quite so likely without some hardcore bussing coming from Michel on musicbox right now, which I guess in lylo is possible but it'd be easier to push for an easy mislynch.

KMD and musicbox: This actually hit me in the gut end of day 2 as being possible. They have almost no real interactions together except 3-4 "light" questions. Still Stand outs musicbox's continued hashing out of cheesy's only major post even after he'd left the game. KMD individually looks less likely to be scum going back to the unvote on the oath claim. Both of you were both heavy on my wagon yesterday (out of the players left) but haven't commented on it since or my hammer on N_M which even though seemed best course at the time I expected to get flack from, so the lack on comment is odd at this point.

Viz and musicbox: Possible but hard to say. Viz is playing like viz and not giving very much at all. Viz could you post a reads list please? (and not all town/null this time, please, unrealistic at this stage). Currently under most likely partner. In post 118 when musicbox states he's willing to vote RC with no reason why, then when asked simply stated "RC's scummier" in 148, this felt off then and in hindsight still feels off.
--->probably NAI but interesting to note they both random voted each other.

Now will look at other non musicbox pairings.

Though viz and anyone is almost possible due to his low content posting. The only players he's voted for that haven't been lynched/NK and confirmed town are music box (RVS) and ceejay/Michel (wagon). So I don't see a Viz and Michel pairing as likely. Looking at Viz and KMD does not seem likely either, KMD pokes at viz quite a bit and I don't see scum partner doing that, at least not that consistently.

KMD and Michel/komala: possible, interactions are minimal but KMD voices town read on Michel's spot repeatedly but not enough to push it into odd(this increases likelihood of buddies since it's just enough to not draw attention). Again Michel's recents posts of pairing musicbox and KMD means he's less likely to be partnered with either, in a lylo like this I don't see scum putting in the much effort to misdirect/bus.

I think that covers all the bases. In case it's not clear, which it may not be and probably looks more like rambling. My scum read teams are Music box and Viz or Music box and KMD in that order. Can delve in deeper tomorrow. We still have 6 days until deadline, I'm not confidant enough at this point to say I'd for sure vote on these reads, would like to see more interactions first.

[nonny]

So do you scumread me independently of Invisibility? Can you see anyone else as partner with Invisibility?

[nonny]

I can see Invisibility!scum as I posed before, not for same reasons but not sure how confidant I am in that read since the info is scarce to go on.

Could you reflect, KMD, on Michel and my posts regarding Music Box? Or are you still catching up and I’m interrupting?

[nonny]

Invisibility: are you scum? (You said if we have any questions to ask)

Okay, for real, I did ask but it was in wall of text. Invisibility please post a reads list and who you think most likely pair is

[nonny]

So viz do you think Michel is currently bussing Musicbox?

[nonny]

Music box: can you give us a solid date of when your limited access ends?

[nonny]

Hey, Invisibility! Whatcha doing?

Wanna answer my question, please?

So viz do you think Michel is currently bussing Musicbox?

KMD: what did you think of my summary of musicbox/Invisibility as possible team? (Can’t link mobile, sorry)

[nonny]

I know musicbox announced limited access, but I don’t like how vague it is. Feel like some effort would still be made to defend himself or atleast post reads instead of promises for content that have yet to be fulfilled

Invisibility has also been quick to vote all game and from what I’ve seen in other games typically votes almost with reckless abandon (no better way to describe it, I’m sure to him they make sense) . But no vote has come. Also, he could have easily voted musicbox since he was already under FoS.

[nonny]

No, I’m well aware. I didn’t say I want him to vote, I said istands out he hasn’t voted. Every game I’ve seen him in, this one included he is very happy to vote and wagon. It’s a change that he is not voting.

[nonny]

i havent really seen anything to sway me and at this point will vote musicbox prior to deadline. But do kind of want to see where votes fall because that may be more telling then the chatter we’ve had so far.

[nonny]

I can see voting to invisibility at this point, he is likely scum, doesn’t help with figuring out partner. But also if I vote viz I doubt he’s going to self hammer, so Michel and Musicbox have listed Invisibility as a scumread, do you see him being the lynch?

VOTE: Invisibility

[nonny]

Damn it! Sorry Michel and Viz, doubted myself at the last minute. :’(

[nonny]

I was just struggling to make a decision and the slow pace was messing with my head. I should have voted musicbox when I did my analysis. Didn’t want to be first to vote either. It was also the delayed second vote that through me off. Also being in another active game with you Michel was messing up my read on you in both but was trying to keep as separate as possible. Overall was my own lack of confidence.

Don’t think anyone ever came close to breaking the post restriction rules, between all the replacements and the slow pace was kind of a hard game IMHO.

[nonny]

Was hoping for more of a happy medium in terms of pace. Pretty sure no one every came close to breaking the post restrictions, which whole you’re in the game is little too slow. IMO