Micro 819: THE LAB 3 - What Does This Button Do? (Game Over)

[ceejayvinoya]

Hey guys
How was your N0?
The most productive thing I did was flip my device off tbh.

I can actually flip people off using my device lmao

VOTE: Arkham

[ceejayvinoya]

At this point horror is basically confirmed town and any hammer is a scum claim.

That wagon up to L-1 is garbage and not even active enough for it to be reaction testing. Fail.

This feels LAMIST. How is an RVS wagon at L-1 in any way AI?

If you think horror is scum...
You think 4 town wagoned scum to L-1 on Page 1?
Or
You think ANY number combination of town and scum wagoned scum to L-1 on Page 1?

When it's much more likely that an opportunistic wagon formed on town Page 1 in RVS because it's the easiest vote to back away from and not be held accountable to.

The game has 2 mafia. They're not L-1 'ing each other page 1. Horror is town.

Move on.

Nah.

I've been put to L-1 on RVS as scum before, with both of my partners on the wagon
On a white flag game
And we won it.

Not conftown. Now move on.

[ceejayvinoya]

Yes. On the game I was referring to, two of us being lynched means we lose (white flag mechanic). Same thing.

[ceejayvinoya]

And I pulled some towncred out of that stunt.

Truth is, no one ever quickhammers on rvs. Show me a game where it happens.

[ceejayvinoya]

Yes. On the game I was referring to, two of us being lynched means we lose (white flag mechanic). Same thing.

Not at all the same thing.

Aight shiw me what's different.

[ceejayvinoya]

Yes. On the game I was referring to, two of us being lynched means we lose (white flag mechanic). Same thing.

Not at all the same thing.

Aight shiw me what's different.

One has 3 scum
This game has 2 scum
Bus your partner
2 scum left
Here there is 1 scum left

Meaning? One less vote, one less voice to help sway the town, one less mode of confusion.
That makes a difference. It's actually strategic to bus in White Flag because it's unexpected, gains credit and the 2 of you remaining can properly hunt everyone else.
Lone scum? There is no benefit to being the only scum after RVS bussing your partner. ZERO. There is no cred gained. There is no information spewed.

Aight I see.

Only thing I'd contest here is that there may be cred gained, but yeah going along the rest of the game solo with vague mechanics is a chore.

That would make horror likely town, not exactly happy with conftowning him tho.

[ceejayvinoya]

Agreed

[ceejayvinoya]

@Giygas & CJ: Would you mind going ahead and explaining those reads?

Initial ping from Oath's rvs vote, plus her line of questioning and posting looks genuine to me.

[ceejayvinoya]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I was waiting for inferno v glowball to blow over. Anyway...

Horror you don’t think that there wasn’t any resistance because the game just started or people wanted to see if anyone fell for the fake hammers? The fake hammers were kind of a troll anyway

There's probably a fair bit of truth to this, and I'll admit my post was pretty weak. I get impatient waiting for things to get going, especially in early game of a setup like this that really intrigues me. I thought at the very least a vote (no matter how weak) could get some discussion started.

Oooh a page 1 L-1. Haven't seen this one in a while.

The fact that it built up so quickly without any resistance makes me think there's at least one scum on the wagon. Enigma's entrance felt forced, as if making the hammer joke was the excuse to hop on the wagon without having to be committal about it.

VOTE: Enigma

VOTE: Horror
Not forced, no resistance, not scum, maybe joke, somewhat committal

Activate box, push button, double triple quadruple vote. BOoM we win, yay.

Can you translate this post for me? I have absolutely no idea what you're saying here.

Inferno/Oathball gut reads tvt right now.

Oh I pushed the button and I'm expecting it to give me extra votes to use, so I can use it flip you scum and win this game.

My entrance wasn't forced
There is no resistance to the wagon
I'm not scum btw
Maybe it was a joke make not
The repeat of my vote was probably less joke and random, based on your reaction to the wagon

Are you serious here? You're actually using your device right now?

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: inferno

Glowball wasn't overselling, he was just frustrated. I think you're reaching here bud

This here pings me in a bad way.

VOTE: Arkham

[ceejayvinoya]

Kk
How do you feel about Enigma and Horror?

They look fine to me...

[ceejayvinoya]

So let's see.
Giygas can be town.
I think glowball v inferno over there is tvt
Horror also likely town.

I'm sticking with my Arkham vote...

[ceejayvinoya]

cj's reentrance to the game is 109-111 is absolutely horrible. He admits to actively lurking to avoid the discussion, asks a fairly pointless question (especially considering the double/triple vote thing was obviously a joke, and even if he thought it was legitimate he could look at the vote count on the previous page to know that it wasn't), and 111 is seriously one of the weakest votes I have ever seen.

Hey let's discuss this for a bit.

I didn't think it was a joke okay? Enigma said he has already used his device. Now we know from game mechanics that we have no idea what exactly a device does. If not multiple votes, it could be something else, and I wanted to know if he really did use it.

[ceejayvinoya]

Hey let's discuss this for a bit.

I didn't think it was a joke okay? Enigma said he has already used his device. Now we know from game mechanics that we have no idea what exactly a device does. If not multiple votes, it could be something else, and I wanted to know if he really did use it.

Alright, let's discuss.

Activate box, push button, double triple quadruple vote. BOoM we win, yay.

How do you believe this isn't a joke? If he's serious he was talking about hammering me on page 2 after I was at L-1.

No comment re on/off but gotta admit that I don't even know what my device does ahaha. I remember reading that if we figure out how the mechanic works, this helps town out quite a bit.

This is really the only other post I can see where he mentions his device - I don't see where you're getting an indicator that he has used it when he says he doesn't even know what it does.

Heeey. No one ever said we can't use our device because we don't know what it does. Sure, earlier on it was confirmed that it does not do double voting, I wanna know if he really did use it so I can consider what it really does do, considering that it really is active during the day.

[ceejayvinoya]

Oh just realised this game is on shortened deadlines. Highly suggest a non inferno lynch today. Also recall the hammer voter gets the device so we should consider that as well ....

We have no choice but to lynch Inferno

This post looks bad to me.

[ceejayvinoya]

Sorry miss glowball

[ceejayvinoya]

@Glowball While I would agree Gigyas > Enigma and I think I see the buddying post you were referring to, I would still rather have Arkham for now given that he's been actually lurking. Also, you can engage in the game without getting in a death 1v1 with inferno. I actually believe that you can even engage with inferno without getting in a death 1v1 with inferno!

VOTE: inferno

Glowball wasn't overselling, he was just frustrated. I think you're reaching here bud

This here pings me in a bad way.

VOTE: Arkham

So let's see.
Giygas can be town.
I think glowball v inferno over there is tvt
Horror also likely town.

I'm sticking with my Arkham vote...

Oh just realised this game is on shortened deadlines. Highly suggest a non inferno lynch today. Also recall the hammer voter gets the device so we should consider that as well ....

We have no choice but to lynch Inferno

This post looks bad to me.

Hey CJ can you please give some reasoning for your reads? Thanks.

UNVOTE: for now.

Arkham on post 76 looks like he just picked the winning side, slightly defended it, and voted the other.

Giygas looks town to me because he's not playing along. Most of his posts question something. It's weak but he's leaning town to me.

No one really gave up on glowball v inferno. They both think they're right. I can't see either one of them purposefully trying to look town in fighting. This argument looks really genuine to me, with both sides believing what they think is right. TvT.

Horror is engaged townie to me.

NM usually has good reads, but his post there looks... bad. Usually when he scumreads someone he does naked votes on the guy. Sometimes repeatedly. Then says things like "this guy is scum". I never saw him go with " we have no choice but to lynch this guy".

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: Enigma

[ceejayvinoya]

Aight confession time. I killed Giygas. the Gauntlet shown here was mine. Apparently I was a one shot vig.

horrordude0215

, who was aligned with the

town

, was killed Night 1.

Giygas

, who was aligned with the

town

, was killed Night 1.

The

GAUNTLET

has shattered!

Deadline in (expired on 2018-08-26 09:30:00)

No I did not know that it was gonna do that.

And just for laughs:

Hey guys
How was your N0?
The most productive thing I did was flip my device off tbh.

I can actually flip people off using my device lmao

VOTE: Arkham

I now have Giygas' device.

[ceejayvinoya]

So it was known you could target people with your device ? I asked the question, and I can’t target people with mine. But why Gigyas if you didn’t know, and how do you know it’s a one shot ?

I assumed that the gauntlet was one of two things: either protective or killing. I targeted Giygas because I thought he would be targeted by scum. After all, he hammered yesterday, and he implied that he has more than one device.

[ceejayvinoya]

My device is a box with a button and it says it’s shut and I can’t open it after trying, not sure if that means 1-shot. And why NM when I can’t target :/

You mean you can't target people with your device? So the neighborizer function of your device targets people randomly???

[ceejayvinoya]

@NM can you confirm that you have a pt with enigma?

[ceejayvinoya]

Darn my head hurts. @NM how did your device say that enigma is scum?

[ceejayvinoya]

I used both of the devices that I got from Giygas yesterday. The first one created a forcefield around me. The second did nothing.

[ceejayvinoya]

I sorta want a no lynch. We can figure out our devices then.

[ceejayvinoya]

Yeah I knew that. I'm being honest here. It really did nothing.

I can add that I had to use those two devices in a very specific manner, which is to choose which should I use first.

The first one worked, the second one didn't.

So I'm guessing something like I can only use one of these devices at a time.

[ceejayvinoya]

how is your printer purple???

[ceejayvinoya]

Invis. Have you tried to use enigma's device? And heey what's your device?

[ceejayvinoya]

Yeah.

Giygas started with two devices. I got both when I vigged him.

[ceejayvinoya]

And @Inferno is your printer really purple?

[ceejayvinoya]

You're right it is. I just found it out of the ordinary, because all of the devices I got were practically colorless.

[ceejayvinoya]

@Mod may you please confirm that if someone kills another player here, he gets their devices, regardless of alignment?

[ceejayvinoya]

Great

[ceejayvinoya]

Hi. Also not scum.

[ceejayvinoya]

i didnt because i didnt think it would work
also
its a thing that has a knob that i can turn between NSWE
i have no idea what it does

Have you tried using it tho

[ceejayvinoya]

I have a purple printer that I’m pretty positive performs the project of printing information.

And what happened here btw? Did your printer print anything?

[ceejayvinoya]

But what did it do tho...

Where was the switch originally at? Before you mived it n1?

[ceejayvinoya]

My printer keeps printing “Nothing Detected.”

What did you do with it? Target players with it? Or did you just leave it alone and it did that?

[ceejayvinoya]

Hmm. Any ideas on what it's supposed to detect?

Maybe it's connected to Invis' device...

[ceejayvinoya]

And @Glowball can you still operate your device during the day? Like ask it nicely for results?

[ceejayvinoya]

I’m thinking it’s reflexive, like it detects when someone targets me with something?

I thought of this, but it struck me as a useless function, idk.

[ceejayvinoya]

And @Glowball can you still operate your device during the day? Like ask it nicely for results?

No I cannot. I asked that yesterday.

So what happened? You sent out your device, it came back to you, then that's it?

[ceejayvinoya]

Your drone can either do one of two things. See who visited Enigma, or see who Enigma visited.

Did you ask either of these?

[ceejayvinoya]

You said it's a drone that records information on who you targeted, so I assumed it's something like tracker or watcher...

[ceejayvinoya]

Your drone can either do one of two things. See who visited Enigma, or see who Enigma visited.

Did you ask either of these?

It could be an investigative that simply reveals what action was performed...

And I don't think a drone is cut out for this kind of job. This is more like the type of thing that I expect Inferno's device would do, if it targets.

Pedit that's why the no lynch. Extra night = Extra info.

[ceejayvinoya]

What are you going on about? I simply said that we need an extra night for figuring out how our devices worked.

Enigma's device is probably a One-Shot Nexus. That's my best guess. Poor guy.

And yeah, that's something I'm worrying at. Why not send your device to anyone anyway? Your only problem seems to be on extracting info from said device.

[ceejayvinoya]

Oh heck yes.

I ask what happened if I punched things with my device (gauntlet). Nothing was said there, but upon trying to wear it, the device did the work for me, attaching itself to my arm...

Also it was implied that the device was powerful and not entirely in my control?

And it also compels me to select a target. (Compulsive?)

[ceejayvinoya]

Two things. A gauntlet is a piece of armor. The other is that the button is at the center of the palm. I had serious doubts about it being a weapon, so I assumed protective.

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: No lynch

I wanna see what the other device I got does first.

[ceejayvinoya]

Heads up: I never bus.

[ceejayvinoya]

And I don't know why you're calling me out on the accuracy of my reads when the objective of this game is to tell town from scum.

[ceejayvinoya]

Ceej... just as I voted yesterday seems the most likely to be scum. You should ISO him, but here are a few points:

Ceej and Inferno were the two most dismissive of me confirming Horror as town - which I find scummy because scum usually have an issue with confirmed town assertions. It's not as easy to cast doubt when someone has basically said they are town. Horror was also night killed and revealed to be town.

I pretty much admitted I was wrong here and said your read may be right.

Yes. On the game I was referring to, two of us being lynched means we lose (white flag mechanic). Same thing.

Not at all the same thing.

Aight shiw me what's different.

One has 3 scum
This game has 2 scum
Bus your partner
2 scum left
Here there is 1 scum left

Meaning? One less vote, one less voice to help sway the town, one less mode of confusion.
That makes a difference. It's actually strategic to bus in White Flag because it's unexpected, gains credit and the 2 of you remaining can properly hunt everyone else.
Lone scum? There is no benefit to being the only scum after RVS bussing your partner. ZERO. There is no cred gained. There is no information spewed.

Aight I see.

Only thing I'd contest here is that there may be cred gained, but yeah going along the rest of the game solo with vague mechanics is a chore.

That would make horror likely town, not exactly happy with conftowning him tho.

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: inferno

Glowball wasn't overselling, he was just frustrated. I think you're reaching here bud

This here pings me in a bad way.

VOTE: Arkham

This is the worst. Now, Ark was scum, but this post from Ark wasn't objectively bad or scummy. It was honest. Not only that Ark wasn't the only one to notice how frustrated I was getting with Inferno YET Ceej latched onto this and was the FIRST vote on the Ark wagon. Scum bussing gone too far? I think so.

Lol you're weirdly sympathetic to people protecting you or something.

It's objectively bad and scummy. All Arkham needed to look town with a vote there was to make his vote look genuine by stating something that really is true, which is you're frustrated on Inferno earlier. Hell, a blind guy can see it. I know it.

Arkham didn't even support an argument there. He just said Inferno was reachy. I can't even tell what on. About horror not being conftown anyway even when put at L1 on a 2-7 game?

Arkham was the one reaching there.

And if you're going that route, you might as well townread me because it looks like I just got rid of my scum buddy early in the game and heaven knows what would I do without him.

[ceejayvinoya]

Like there were several opportunities there where I could have hopped on another wagon. Like NM's wagon.

[ceejayvinoya]

In post 145, ceejayvinoya wrote:
So let's see.
Giygas can be town.
I think glowball v inferno over there is tvt
Horror also likely town.

I'm sticking with my Arkham vote...

Ceej's reads from DAY ONE are 100% accurate of those flipped... and if he were to assume he's right about me and Inferno then Invisibility would be his target today. Yet, it seems he's not entirely too confident there which is strange for a game when you've been spot on thus far.

THAT'S BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHO'S SCUM HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE CONFIDENT

You make me cry

[ceejayvinoya]

Ceej admits to killing Giygas who openly stated they had 2 devices - scum get the devices of those they kill. We've already lynched one scum, the other scum needs as much help as possible so Giygas was the best choice. Not to mention, as unbalanced as the mod said this game could be IN WHAT WORLD would 7town vs 2scum WITH EVERY TOWNIE BASICALLY A POWER ROLE need a one-shot vig? We don't.

I'd agree with you here if:
- you can tell me how your device gives you results.
- you can tell me what Inferno's and Invis' device is supposed to do.
- you can tell me how Enigma using his device helped town

I could go on but I think you get it.

[ceejayvinoya]

If scum targeted Giygas and Ceej targeted Giygas ONLY Giygas would have died, but Horror died too meaning Horror was scums target. Why? Why would Horror need to die before Giygas? He wouldn't. BUT this way the remaining scum gets 2 kills and 2 devices.

I have an issue with this. It's called BALANCE.

Aren't you worried that what you're theorising here is sounding scumsided? Because it is.

[ceejayvinoya]

This is not enough of a reason to assume it's protective. It has a button for Christ's sake. I don't buy for one second that he thought that gauntlet was protective and if for a second you thought it was protective or killing then you target someone else- not Giygas.

Oh so for you, glowing glove with a button == killer device? Looks like I now know what to NOT give you for Christmas.

[ceejayvinoya]

If you weren’t aware, I’m reading through
And I’m starting to lean scum again on glowball

You know what glowball. I'll buy that case on CJ.
The reason I was leaning on you was because it looked like you were using all of this setup spec stuff to look like you were being active and therefore scummy, but you're posting has been too town toned to ignore.

Finally! Something that's not glowball related!

What setup spec stuff? glowball isn't too involved in setup spec. She didn't even use her drone last night!

Oops. It's still glowball related. Eh.

[ceejayvinoya]

Damn you piss me off.

I don't understand why you joined a game with vague mechanics only to not be willing to figure them out. Go play normals or something.

[ceejayvinoya]

If scum targeted Giygas and Ceej targeted Giygas ONLY Giygas would have died, but Horror died too meaning Horror was scums target. Why? Why would Horror need to die before Giygas? He wouldn't. BUT this way the remaining scum gets 2 kills and 2 devices.

I have an issue with this. It's called BALANCE.

Aren't you worried that what you're theorising here is sounding scumsided? Because it is.

"11. This game is technically bastard and may be very swingy and/or unbalanced"

And this is like one of your worst yet.

Why don't you marry the rules or something?

You do understand town is supposed to figure out mechanics? And they can't do that if scum has most of the devices?

Pedit yeah that was at glowball

[ceejayvinoya]

Scum is probs inferno. He has more than one device.

[ceejayvinoya]

And that flip flopping of his read on you earlier was bad.

[ceejayvinoya]

The difference is you know all of my devices.

@inferno how do you turn your printer off?

[ceejayvinoya]

@inferno how do you turn your printer off?

I don't know how many, I'm just sure it's more than one. It's important that he answers this first.

[ceejayvinoya]

Sigh. Why do you have to step in and ruin shit.

If you must know, things he said didn't add up.

[ceejayvinoya]

This is what he said about what he did pre game with his device.

Hey guys
How was your N0?
The most productive thing I did was flip my device off tbh.

Then later on it doesn't make sense anymore.

I have a purple printer that I’m pretty positive performs the project of printing information.

I thin Invis is most likely scum.
I can also see scum cases for everyone in the game rn. Ironically, glowball is my weakest of those.

It doesn’t target. I just hit a button and it prints stuff.

Flip means switch to me. Or maybe a lid.

I don't see how he could flip it off if all he would do with it is just press a button and then print.

[ceejayvinoya]

I thin Invis is most likely scum.
I can also see scum cases for everyone in the game rn. Ironically, glowball is my weakest of those.

It's also funny that he has no solid scumread and kept us all between varying degrees of scumminess.

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: inferno

[ceejayvinoya]

Exactly!

Tho tbf I townread Invis a little more because he wants a no lynch

[ceejayvinoya]

Hey guys
How was your N0?
The most productive thing I did was flip my device off tbh.

I can actually flip people off using my device lmao

VOTE: Arkham

VOTE: inferno

Glowball wasn't overselling, he was just frustrated. I think you're reaching here bud

This here pings me in a bad way.

VOTE: Arkham

So let's see.
Giygas can be town.
I think glowball v inferno over there is tvt
Horror also likely town.

I'm sticking with my Arkham vote...

@Glowball While I would agree Gigyas > Enigma and I think I see the buddying post you were referring to, I would still rather have Arkham for now given that he's been actually lurking. Also, you can engage in the game without getting in a death 1v1 with inferno. I actually believe that you can even engage with inferno without getting in a death 1v1 with inferno!

VOTE: inferno

Glowball wasn't overselling, he was just frustrated. I think you're reaching here bud

This here pings me in a bad way.

VOTE: Arkham

So let's see.
Giygas can be town.
I think glowball v inferno over there is tvt
Horror also likely town.

I'm sticking with my Arkham vote...

Oh just realised this game is on shortened deadlines. Highly suggest a non inferno lynch today. Also recall the hammer voter gets the device so we should consider that as well ....

We have no choice but to lynch Inferno

This post looks bad to me.

Hey CJ can you please give some reasoning for your reads? Thanks.

UNVOTE: for now.

Arkham on post 76 looks like he just picked the winning side, slightly defended it, and voted the other.

Giygas looks town to me because he's not playing along. Most of his posts question something. It's weak but he's leaning town to me.

No one really gave up on glowball v inferno. They both think they're right. I can't see either one of them purposefully trying to look town in fighting. This argument looks really genuine to me, with both sides believing what they think is right. TvT.

Horror is engaged townie to me.

NM usually has good reads, but his post there looks... bad. Usually when he scumreads someone he does naked votes on the guy. Sometimes repeatedly. Then says things like "this guy is scum". I never saw him go with " we have no choice but to lynch this guy".

You said earlier that me leading a lynch on Arkham was bussing gone too far.

It wasn't. I consistently scumread him ever since game start. I even forgot that I already voted him and then voted him again. I even told horror what I think about Arkham.

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: inferno

Glowball wasn't overselling, he was just frustrated. I think you're reaching here bud

Cool
Now that this is out of the way, can we wagon teh bat plz?

VOTE: Arkham
I don’t even know how I did that.
Please don’t accuse me of voting for voting’s sake now lol

I did a reread and on second consideration, what I thought of inferno looks like shit.

This would mean Invis bussed tho...

Currently fos Invis

[ceejayvinoya]

my recent scumgames

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76883
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76409

my recent towngames

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=76401
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=76496
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76282

there are others on my wiki if you think it will help

[ceejayvinoya]

Oh I'm also on Invis' first recent scumgame as town

[ceejayvinoya]

^shading

are we supposed to talk about when can we all be online at once?

[ceejayvinoya]

Why don't you pull out some posts? Show where I was different?

Wouldn't that be irrelevant tho? Since it would be a different game?

[ceejayvinoya]

See exactly

You couldn't

Which asks the question: how can you tell they're different?

VOTE: Invis

[ceejayvinoya]

On one hand, CJ has some odd interactions with Ark and openly admits to bussing in similar situations.
On the other, Invis sheeps the wagon way too hard imo.
The way CJ talks about Ark/NM late in the day feels like wagon derailing...
But he had plenty of opportunity to pull out and he never did.

I dunno guys, I’m stumped

I don't get it.

You can check my scumgames. As much as possible, I never bus teammates. I never admitted to bussing. Did I?

[ceejayvinoya]

Whoops
I misread your early posts
I thought you said that you bussed your partners, not the other way around

Now where here, what do you think? Could I have bussed Arkham? Did Invis bus? Like look at what happened. The only reason that Invis voted Arkham is that you told him to.

Do you think that scum would vote his partner at day start and keep his vote there until his partner gets lynched?

Isn't it more likely that the one who voted later is the one who bussed?

[ceejayvinoya]

i did it because arkham was really scummy

Really?

Cool
Now that this is out of the way, can we wagon teh bat plz?

VOTE: arkham
sure

[ceejayvinoya]

what inherently makes a scumbuddy less likely to vote park?

Uh, a chance to move his vote?

[ceejayvinoya]

GG. Sigh.