Micro 826: Double Day Unlimited (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Vote CheekyTeeky
Vote Saudade
Vote notasexualobject

[Kmd4390]

Unvote Saudade

[Kmd4390]

nm unvoting people....right after cheeky asked him to unvote her. That's new.

Yeah I noticed that too. *strokes beard*

why arent u conforming to rvs like the rest of us, saudude

because I dont feel like it

Unvote Saudade

?

?

[Kmd4390]

The slight scum read I had is gone.

[Kmd4390]

I read post 20 in the wrong tone and didn't realize it until seeing his other two posts. Originally, it sounded like scum not sure what to say. Now I see that his attitude towards the game is intentional. With that added context, I get no read from post 20.

[Kmd4390]

Saudade, do you have any reads? How long does it typically take you to get reads? And what do you normally do to get reads?

[Kmd4390]

Notsexual, how do you feel about not_mafia and performer having less votes than you? Your vote read as self preservation and they both have more votes than Saudade. Your comment about not_mafia sounds like he's a similar read to Saudade (unsure on both) so basically I'm wondering what stood out about Saudade that made your vote land there.
^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?

Performer, does draynth have a history of lurking as scum? If not, why did you add the "if you are town" to that post?

[Kmd4390]

Not_mafia why do you townread cheeky?

[Kmd4390]

^correction: I see you are already voting booth of them. So instead I'll ask this - why the self preservation votes already?

It's less of a survivalist attitude, and more of a "oshit there's going to a mislynch already without much discussion." Odd question though, "already". I don't understand this part. I've seen that typically self-preservation votes aren't accepted as town, but is there a point in time it is? Is it too early for me to be concerned about being lynched?

I mean...if deadline is like an hour away, a townie is at L-1 with intent declared, and they have a chance to hammer someone else, Id be surprised if they didn't. But seeing self preservation when half the game still has an RVS mindset is concerning.

That's fair. I hadn't realized I was being scummy up until I was called out for it. I found no reason to hide it because I hadn't realized that it pointed in the direction of me being scum.

Yikes...

[Kmd4390]

I don't think he realizes how bad it sounds though and would probably hide if if he did. He basically said as much while responding to you.

[Kmd4390]

@kmd talk to me about saudade, you still sticking with your guns on him?

@not_mafia hi

Huh? I don't have a read on Saudade. I retracted my scum read. His next few posts made me realize my reason for scumreading him didn't apply. He's basically a true null. I've been meaning to look for some meta. Will probably see what he's got on Friday.

_____

Will read aeros stuff tomorrow

[Kmd4390]

I'm not gonna have the energy to catch up tonight. Plenty of time to do it tomorrow though.

[Kmd4390]

pedit: oh k. Then I assume your vote on Cheeky is completely serious? Would like to hear your take on her.

The original vote was because her play seemed more focused on herself than others (posts 9 and 14) and because the reason for townreading you felt surface level ("scum would have" always rubs me the wrong way. Not all scum play the same). After I voted, I also didn't like her saying she was close to a "zero doubt" scum read on Saudade who hadn't really done anything yet aside from tell us he'll play for real later. It seemed more like she wanted something to latch on to in order to show she's taking stances than that she was genuinely sorting players and trying to develop reads.

I look forward to seeing your meta dig. I meta'd him and this is very different to his opening in games where he's town.

I'm curious what games you looked at that have you scumreading him for his opening. His explanation seems to hold up not only in his town games, but his scum games as well. (NY215 being a slightly weird case because he wasn't really around for RVS, but even as scum he wasn't basing reads on RVS). I personally buy his answer to me. I don't necessarily town read him for it though. I do town read him though as I keep reading. His stretch of posting on Page 6 is similar to my own thoughts although maybe with a touch more emotion than I'm feeling (see post 135). You linked Micro 820. It doesn't look that different to me. Can you be more specific on what you feel he did differently in that game?

Yeah because it's the same....not. way to reduce my entire push down to scumreading him for one surface level post. You're intentionally misrepping me here.

VOTE: Aeronaut

Wait, what? I don't see a misrep, or hell, even a misinterpretation. I actually see exactly where Aero is coming from here.

It's you trying to make a story around what looks to me like just a confused townie.

Do you still see him as confused after he posted more? Because once I got a sense for his tone, it seemed more like disbelief at Not_Mafia's actions than confusion.
edit: Ok, guess I'm wrong here based on post 172

_____________

Cheeky vs Aero really looks bad for Cheeky in my opinion. Aero asked some good questions like why Cheeky isn't talking more about Saudade, especially the response that was her "key trigger point" and what did she get from the reaction test. She responds my saying she doesn't want to talk to Aero because he makes her angry. Like....what? Where did that come from. I also didn't read Aero's Saudade post as a defense, especially not such a defense that it's damning. Aero just called Saudade a "confused townie". It's not like he came right after Cheeky saying "get your vote off him. he's town. we aren't lynching there." Unless Cheeky's post was about something else Aero said that I'm forgetting or missing? Looking back, maybe post 117? But he doesn't really even give a read on Saudade there.

_____________

Going to take a step back because I feel like I so desperately want Cheeky to be town that I'm going to end up stonewalling any attempts on her without legitimately considering the other viewpoint(s).

Are you sure you are townreading her for alignment related reasons and not just for having a similar style to you? What do you think Cheeky would do differently as scum?

kmd - honestly have to look at him again via ISO, he hasn't stood out to me so far other the suggestion of a no lynch.

I didn't suggest a no lynch. Uhhh, are you feeling ok actually? Looking back I see you first said Aero did this and then you realized it was me. I went back and ctrl+f'd "no lynch" and the only mentions I see of it are the rules and your posts stating that someone else brought it up. Where is this coming from? Also, can you show me where Cheeky was being proactive in sorting Saudade? She voted him for his "the fok" and then was close to "zero doubt" without saying much else. Anything after that is just tunneling in my opinion.

Cheeky is attempting to push for an explanation and Aeronaut shuts it down for no reason that I can think of other than that he is trying to prevent Saudede's lynch. Sure, it wasn't much to go off of, but Cheeky delivered his narrative and it seemed that Aeronaut panicked after seeing the post.

How can you possibly see Aero as the one shutting things down when Cheeky specifically said she wouldn't communicate with him? Or are you just saying he disagreed with her and I'm misreading what you mean by "shuts it down"?

Currently, Performer and Oka seem to be the most Town for me, and if they aren't, I still view no reason to push them. They seem to be keeping the conversation going and contributing moreso than I have (which I apologize for).

Why is contributing a town tell?

________________

Katyusha, can you explain the reads in your entrance? I agree with very little of what you said so I want to see where you're coming from.

________________

i’ve literally done that as town before and would still stand by those decisions when I made them

sometimes it’s just better for the health of the gamestate to not get into a conversation that leads to a pissing match or both sides relentlessly nitpicking eachother rather than doing anything productive

like on policy not engaging your scumreads is bad but I understand why that happens and I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s not gamesolving just because she thinks she sees where the conversation is going

I didn't personally see anything to suggest the conversation was going that way though. They disagreed on a few things. Aero pointed some of those things out and asked good questions. And it looked like he was being respectful. I don't see why that conversation needed to be shut down at that point and I can't help but notice Aero's questions weren't answered as a result.

on a different note aero I don’t really see what you’re getting out of cheeky - the way she’s playing makes a lot of sense to me. starting out early game by making strong accusations gets people to take sides and move the game along, and cheeky’s been consistently transparent with what impacts her thought process. Like I can’t look at it and not see genuine scumhunting from it,?

Can you show specifically where she did that if Performer doesn't answer me first?

This is a trademark of mine. NM is familiar with it. When I say x is scum, doubt = zero it means I'm 100% confident you're scum. It doesn't happen every game but it has a 100% success rate D1 and a 100% fail rate thereafter for no obvious reason. Saying I was close was based on my gut pings which I expanded on in my minicase of you.

Are you at zero doubt yet or still just close?

The only way I can really gauge N_M alignment atm is his vioting pattern.

If someone wants to lend me a hand on how else you can draw blood out of stone then please do.

I usually use associative tells or process of elimination with Not_Mafia.

I feel like you holding back from giving reads or making pushes is coming from a frozen wolf because you're at L-1 and don't want to give any info if you flip.

Im at l1 and i didnt know?

lmao

If you dropped the same case now or at the time you commented on it, sure it could be weak and extremely nitpicky. But getting the ball rolling is extremely townie and I don't really see scum wanting to get the ball rolling and have discourse be engaged. Scum probably wants everyone to sit on their asses so we can drown in apathy.

Again, this is a playstyle thing. I personally don't enjoy games where everyone sits on their ass so even as scum I don't like to encourage it. Also, this site gives free town reads to anyone who can stay active and talk somewhat smoothly so what scum wouldn't try to come out of the gate strong if they are capable of it?

Could everyone provide a brief readslist / status on where you feel the game is?

Town on top, scum on bottom:
Kmd4390
Aeronaut
Okapoka
Saudade
Performer
Not_Mafia
Katyusha
notasexualobject
CheekyTeeky

"Driving the game forward", imo, isn't what Aero's doing. He's defending Saud with nothing and going directly against Cheeky, which seems to have actually halted the conversation and now we're being derailed into trying to lynch Cheeky.

Why is a lynch on Saudade driving the game forward where lynching Cheeky is derailing us? Is this just a fancy way to say you agree with Cheeky's top scum read more than Aero's? If Cheeky were to flip scum, would Aero have been driving the game forward all along? If Saudade were to flip town, would Cheeky be derailing us? Better question: If Aero and Cheeky are both town, who has done more to progress the game?

Performer - Town,

relatively unbiased

Can you elaborate on the bolded?

a certain someone seems to be widely tr, and I'm getting a little paranoid here about that person...
he knows who he is...…

I didn't bother asking earlier in my post because I figured it would be answered by now but I don't see anything. Who is this super secret paranoia read?

[Kmd4390]

Cheeky that's basically my null pile, but Saudade is a slight town read for that stretch of posting on page 6 that I mentioned. Katyusha is a slight gut scum read, possibly just because I don't see where she is coming from on basically anything she's said.

[Kmd4390]

Cheeky I had a few questions for you in that post.

[Kmd4390]

Cheeky I had a few questions for you in that post.

I'd answer them if I considered them important. I'd rather you sort me from my actions. I'm not a fan of explaining myself when anything I say can be construed as scummy - like how it has been so far. I'm pretty sure you've already decided I'm scum based on your terrible readslist so answering questions seems kinda pointless in helping you sort me.

Ok I'll just keep my vote here then.

__________

Okapoka, did not_mafia give reads somewhere?

[Kmd4390]

@kmd & aero I was speaking of Oka earlier

For the no Lynch thing or the secret paranoia read?

[Kmd4390]

You lurkers suck.

Sorry, fell asleep reading this last night. I'm on page 13.

Update: I feel really good about oka and a little better about cheeky. Saudade I lean town still and he's made me laugh a few times. I could compromise on his Lynch though and would strongly prefer it to an aero Lynch. He's someone I expect will be lynched at some point in this game anyway and I'd rather have his flip Day 1 than like Day 3.

I'm trying to read some more now but not sure how far I'll get. I'm sure I can finish tonight.

[Kmd4390]

I just can't see scum saying "oh sorry I didn't realise that was scummy" like what scum player is going to bring attention to scummy shit and apologise hoping it's going to work?

If someone notices they are getting voted for being scummy, saying oh sorry like they are going to stop can make them think the votes will go away. Obviously, we know that's not how mafia works. If you appear scummy, it happened. It can't be apologized away. But if NotAsxual doesn't understand that, it explains those posts. Is there a reason town would be more likely to do that than scum? Because I believe that was the thought process regardless of NotAsexual's alignment.

I mean either this dude is very confidently open wolfing or completely clueless to how scummy his behaviour is. I'd say the latter because I feel a player newish to MS wouldn't have this kind of confidence as a wolf.

Or hasn't learned how to look town as scum yet which makes NotAsexual very transparent. We see scummy posts because we see scum. You and oka were talking about "too scummy to be scum". You realize that's been considered a fallacy for a long time, right? I also don't at all see how you are getting that NotAsexual has to be confident in order to be scum. There's no way this play has been intentional.

gotta love it when an entire game becomes basically a game of 4 people + random afks/replacements in and out at odd intervals

Yeah it's hard for a lot of us to keep up with a few of you.

if cheeky and aero is tvt
scum probs content in letting it build up
people who were least vocal about cheeky v aero were kmd and katy
i think one scum is in there, but they also have pretty good reasons not to have been commenting
kmd is already scumreading cheeky
draynth replaced out in the middle of the interaction so katy couldnt even have the chance to comment

but its either TvT and scum in <katy,kmd> or its not TvT

Actually my reason for not being vocal during their argument is that I was out celebrating my anniversary with my wife that night and rushing home to get the kids from the babysitter that morning, not because I was already scumreading cheeky. I actually made a point not to be on my phone that day so she could have my full attention. I'd have done that regardless of my alignment in this game. Some things are just more important. I also comented when I came back. It should be obvious from looking at my posts which side I took.

_______________

Hitting submit early while I take care of some things around the house. Will finish later.

[Kmd4390]

saudade who's your pick for naso's partner? playing devil's advocate with myself rn

Kat, you asked about my early gut read on you. I think I was just looking at your posts, disagreeing with everything, and didn't like it. Some of your later posting has me leaning town on you. This game like your question to performer about how he scum hunts feel like a genuine effort to get reads. I'm at a point where I think at least one scum is either playing really well or is not_mafia because I'm starting to doubt myself a bit on cheeky too which leaves NotAsexual as my only confident scum read.

____________

I have to point out it's kind of amusing how people dont seem to realize Saudade is trolling with like every one of his posts.

_____________

arent you voting like
everyone

He's not voting cheeky.

_________

Unvote cheeky
Vote not_mafia

I can't come up with a reason not to.

[Kmd4390]

I think his vote is serious. I don't think most of his interactions with anyone have been. What game was that with not_mafia?

[Kmd4390]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=76150

this dumpsterfire of a game was the last iteration of the setup

Seems he had a lot more to say about people in that game than he has in this one. I didnt realize he'd unvoted oka though until I ISO'd him just now.

[Kmd4390]

Feel like egging ppl to hammer Saudade is in line with his egging people to hammer pine

Also had a similar infrequent posting schedule early game iirc

^ might be biased in how infrequently people did anything d1p1 that made me feel like screaming at a wal

Here he asked for a hammer twice. In that game, he said multiple times In The first five pages that he wanted pine lynched. He was more interactive there. I get that he didn't say much, but he responded to people. He specifically said he wants pine dead. Here, it's just a grand total of two unprompted hammer requests. That's the entirety of his posts about Saudade.

[Kmd4390]

*shrug*

Would be cool if he did but he's had plenty of opportunity to answer questions and hasn't done so.

[Kmd4390]

...from one lynchbait lynch to another eh?

Saudade and NotAsexual are probably today's lynches. Not that I buy into the idea of Lynch bait, but can you tell me why Saudade doesn't fit that description?

Preview edit: well yeah. Eliminate two people from your scum pool In a 7:2 games and the odds of anyone else being scum increase drastically.

[Kmd4390]

Saudade and NotAsexual are probably today's lynches. Not that I buy into the idea of Lynch bait, but can you tell me why Saudade doesn't fit that description?

I've already established my reasons on saudade. You saying "can't think of a reason not to" is pretty bs considering you townreas saudade for being consistent in his style yet you scumread NM for being consistent in his. NM needs to be PoEd and is the worst lynch for info.

Why is everyone ignoring Performer?

Consistency in style hasn't been the reason for any of my reads. I don't think that would change for many people based on alignment. I also don't support Day 1 info lynches. Performer is a low content town read for me so there isn't much to say.

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: Performer for having an animated profile picture that I stared at for like 3 minutes

*ahem*

Nm's ISO looks scummy since it's so bare, upon another ISO. But I can't think of a reason why he would go out of his way to engage with her. Can't see scum nm going out of his way to do something like that.
UNVOTE: not_mafia aka my ex-Mason partner! Fun times!

That along with what I said earlier on this page, is making me rethink NASO read again.

Weak...

[Kmd4390]

I'll take a crunch wrap too. And a cool ranch Dorito taco.

[Kmd4390]

anyway so like in an hour i said i would hammer saud but like

i thought naso would actually post by then

You could hammer NotAsexual instead.

[Kmd4390]

If we wait much longer, both lynches will be deadline lynches and it will be harder to use info from the first one towards the second.

[Kmd4390]

I'd say hammer NotAsexual and decide from there. If NotAsexual flips town, let everyone who will be saying "told you so" have their Saudade lynch. If NotAsexual is scum, start looking for associative tells.

[Kmd4390]

pedit: yeah exactly but what even are the associative tells from my pov? it's why i dont like the lynch in the first place

Not sure. I haven't looked yet. No one has flipped scum.

[Kmd4390]

I only see reason to rule out Saudade, Aero, and maybe Oka as partners to NotAsexual. Do you see reasons Cheeky, Not_Mafia, or Performer can't be scum with NotAsexual?

[Kmd4390]

N_M makes sense with anyone really

True...

[Kmd4390]

there is two sides to hammering now

either hammer now to send a message that doing nothing wont be tolerated

or dont because we are rational people who dont want to mislynch because we get pissed off

That's assuming this is an inactivity Lynch and... That's not why the wagon is there.

[Kmd4390]

What difference does it make whether you do it or Kat does?

[Kmd4390]

Like if you aren't willing to do it, why do you want Katyusha to do it?

[Kmd4390]

Кароче не тени резину давай хаммертайм

[Kmd4390]

Performer, I agree with you about the "lock town" thing. It doesn't exist in a game without power roles. But I've seen people say to to exaggerate their reads enough times that I've stopped fighting it. It's become a playstyle thing that people aren't changing.

Katyusha, you seem to be misremembering my stance about possible NotAsexual partners. Performer and Not_Mafia are the only ones you and I agree on. I said I'd only rule out Aero, Saudade, and maybe Oka. That still leaves cheeky, who you call town on play and you who I consider town on play. I'd also be open to the possibility of oka if someone were to see things differently than me.

[Kmd4390]

*shrug*.

It's not really a thought I'm ready to entertain yet. It's basically when I look at it I think "probably not buddies but I could be wrong" where Saudade and aero make zero sense as buddies.

[Kmd4390]

V/LA until Monday

Working 16 hour days.

[Kmd4390]

I found some time to read up in between my doubles. The things I don't like are performers reaction to oka and not_mafia in general.

Katyusha and oka I just really don't see being scum. Cheeky I'm willing to admit that either I was wrong or I'm not going to convince anyone she's scum without lynching her partner first. I'm pretty sure most of us agree we aren't lynching in that trio today. I don't really see Saudade as scum after the way he played under the threat of a hammer. So that only leaves aero, performer, and not_mafia.

I could be convinced Aero is scum but I'm not leaning that way.

Vote Performer
Vote Not_Mafia

[Kmd4390]

Reads change over time. I said what I didn't like about performer and not_mafia.

[Kmd4390]

Performer did a scummy thing and I started scumreading him..

You and Aero looked town as you posted more.

"Ok I'll leave my vote" was said out of frustration.

[Kmd4390]

Okay not that I mind the town read but why can't I be scum with Saudade or aero?

[Kmd4390]

Oka*

[Kmd4390]

is it time to revisit the aero vs cheeky theory?
if cheeky=town and katy = town then kmd or aero should be scum, and i don't really know associatives possible for kmd so then aero?

aero partner is ??? discuz
maybe im wrong somewhere but
we need more talking and poeing guys

Not_Mafia or Saudade probably would make the most sense.

[Kmd4390]

I don't get why it has to be one one and one off

[Kmd4390]

i'm terrible at it but i know how the pieces move and like the mechanics

also this is not an ordinary setup lmfao - in this and the newbie setup bussing D1 is a really bad idea you need to be extremely confident in. in this you need to be confident you're not POE'd (easy to do if you're a charismatic player reaping towncred off of a bus, and I think only you fit that description in the PL. Maybe KMD can pull it off in a vacuum but I don't think it's his personality unless he felt it was the only play), in the newbie setup the PRs can usually curbstomp solo scum into autoloss

otherwise i dont think D1 bussing is that bad? it's just here im thinking of it differently

pedit: saud unvoted performer

I've hardbussed before. Depends on how scummy of a partner I get.

[Kmd4390]

No he can't that's the point. I'm not defending him like I usually would at this point, all I'm saying is that if he flips town scum win.

It's Day 1. If that happens I'm sure we can rally and turn things around.

_____________

Still wondering why it has to be one on one off by the way.

______________

lynching in the dark

Nah. We all seem to have reads if I'm not mistaken. Even if we didn't, it's possible to hit scum randomly. Day 1 mislynched aren't auto losses unless the setup really sucks.

[Kmd4390]

Ok will you guys compromise with me? I will hammer NM if you guys promise to lynch KMD if nm flips green.

I'd agree to this and self vote tomorrow on a green not_mafia flip if everyone were to agree to let me choose who is lynched after my own green flip. So effectively give me a vengekill and I'll do it.

[Kmd4390]

I grew up playing sports and a lot of my mentality came from that. Id rather have the ball in my hands than have someone else decide the fate of my team. I know I'm not perfect but I believe in myself and trust myself to succeed in anything I do. If I don't succeed, I learn. If I succeed, I win. I never lose or fail because I don't look at a learning experience as a failure and I never stop learning.

[Kmd4390]

Too early to tell

[Kmd4390]

Can I like tinfoilhat and say if oka and/or kat are scum they deserve the win and I wouldn't be mad at all lol.

Ugh

[Kmd4390]

Ok will you guys compromise with me? I will hammer NM if you guys promise to lynch KMD if nm flips green.

I'd agree to this and self vote tomorrow on a green not_mafia flip if everyone were to agree to let me choose who is lynched after my own green flip. So effectively give me a vengekill and I'll do it.

What the.

So you're saying if nm is green, and if you flip green, you want to choose who to lynch - which I'm going to guess you'd want to choose me lynched, since you're only voting nm & I.

Stringing together deaths this far ahead just doesn't sound right.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just somehow missed how i said it's too early to tell who I'd pick, but you should have reached that conclusion anyway using your own logic about how far ahead it is. We would have two flips and everyone's reaction to those flips. It's impossible to tell what I'd do at this time.

[Kmd4390]

I still do t see why it has to be one on one off but if it does oka is right. I think cheeky just factored her own reads into it though and I'm surprised no one seems to understand that

[Kmd4390]

Kat why can't it be not_mafia or Saudade with oka? Are we just all assuming cheeky/Kat/oka are like confirmed town or something?

[Kmd4390]

Kat why can't it be not_mafia or Saudade with oka? Are we just all assuming cheeky/Kat/oka are like confirmed town or something?

what? how are people all assuming they're confirmed town? that's hardly the case this day. You are clearly keeping keeping up with the thread, so this assumption doesn't sound like it's from town.

Multiple people are making that assumption although most of that rhetoric is coming from the trio themselves.

_____________

V/LA until after deadline.

I'll be either at work, sleeping, or getting ready to go back in to work until about 3pm Thursday. 16 hour shifts with zero internet access there.

[Kmd4390]

See that's a better way to look at it than Cheekys post 969 which my phone is being dumb and won't let me quote for some reason.

[Kmd4390]

Can I like tinfoilhat and say if oka and/or kat are scum they deserve the win and I wouldn't be mad at all lol.

[Kmd4390]

Anything I need to know? I'm here for about ten minutes.

[Kmd4390]

Not quite sure where to look knowing at least one of my town reads is wrong.

Vote Not_Mafia

May as well start there but I know I need to look over some things.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd who are you looking at in terms of first wrong townreads to eliminate

Not sure yet. I'm honestly glad scum killed cheeky because she's probably who I would have thought of first for scum playing well. Did I miss why not_mafia pairings don't make sense? The vote count you quoted in 1205 kind of makes too much sense to be wrong on aero/Saudade though. I dunno. I could probably be convinced to vote there. I mean...even if not_mafia is scum, one of aero/Saudade almost has to be at this point. Scum will kill in you/oka and I don't think the two of you are scum together so it's best if I don't discuss any doubts on either of you today. So yeah to answer your question I think I'm looking at admitting I was wrong on one or both of aero/Saudade.

Unvote

[Kmd4390]

I don't think N_M hardbusses Saudade when he's very likely to get poe'd lynched and is aware of that when looking at the playerlist. N_M makes ballsy risks as scum, sure, but there's a calculated thought process behind them when it happens. There's no reason for him to hard push his partner when n_m's actually in danger of losing partner!Saudade and thus the game D1P1. If, say, his "lynch saudade" spam only started D1P2 then it'd be a different story, but leading a lynch on your partner and advocating for it when, again, it was practically a 50/50 for me to lynch Saudade with my townreads or NASO because I wanted to see how Saudade would react since I wasn't sold on him being scum, is suicide.

You/n_m is self evident from your perspective but my argument there would be that you floated n_m as a scum candidate when cheeky and I were townreading him and discredited my metaread (which fwiw was fair). If n_m was a widely townread slot the gamestate would probably look different, and deterring that forces only one of you to endgame in a team. Not a risk that's worth taking when you're forced to take a townblocced slot to lylo.

For both your slots n_m frequently appears as a common link between who you scumread - I think in the current gamestate where Oka and I are both unlynchable, bussing wouldn't really help fight vs poe. lynching n_m is basically required for both of you to win as scum, and as town he's perfectly reasonable to suspect because you basically have Aero/N_M or Aero/other of saud/kmd as the only two viable teams without me or Oka in them. So like, it makes

sense

for you guys to suspect him, but from my vantage point it's more likely he's town since he doesn't fit in a team with either of you and you both suspect him. If that makes sense?

Like, we have a pool of you/n_m/saudade. If, optimal play dictates that Aero goes before N_M, then if two people are pushing for a suboptimal decision then I think it's more likely that one of those people know it's suboptimal to do so and are trying to push a scum wincon because Saudade!scum and you!scum both need n_m lynched no matter who they're partnered with, unless of course it's N_M which I don't think it ever is.

Aero also just fits with everyone sans my own slot as scum, so lynching n_m before aero is a choke unless A: someone has a real reason to scumread Oka or me or B: someone disagrees with clearing Saudade/N_M and KMD/N_M pairings. We can risk a n_m lynch if we really wanted to after an Aero red flip, we can't really say the same if we mislynch n_m since it'll be lylo. Gaining a second lynch is really powerful for town so we really want to be sure we're hitting scum, and lynching someone with only one viable partner (besides Oka) is pretty anti-town.

This game is weird. I'm never this easily swayed but yeah... That makes so much sense. Hmm.

[Kmd4390]

Saudade, they both carry their styles from game to game.

[Kmd4390]

Gonna try to catch up. I see a lot of pointless spam. Is there anything specific I should give my attention to?

[Kmd4390]

I have them both as town on play, but am at the point where by PoE one or both of those is probably wrong. Was leaning Aero but he dropped a couple of town tells in the replace out post where he no longer has a win condition to work towards although I realize he could just be trying to help set up the replacement out of etiquette. Basically I expect the lynch comes down to the two of them and I'm not standing in the way. I've been wrong enough this game that I don't have confidence in any reads. One thing that stands out to me is that Saudade and Aero wagons seem to be all town. Why did scum not vote them? Obvious answer is maybe it's as easy as the team is just Aero/Saudade.

__________________

I just read everything else and have nothing to add on it. It's all either spam, stuff that has already been said, or just not relevant.

[Kmd4390]

I have them both as town on play, but am at the point where by PoE one or both of those is probably wrong. Was leaning Aero but he dropped a couple of town tells in the replace out post where he no longer has a win condition to work towards although I realize he could just be trying to help set up the replacement out of etiquette. Basically I expect the lynch comes down to the two of them and I'm not standing in the way. I've been wrong enough this game that I don't have confidence in any reads. One thing that stands out to me is that Saudade and Aero wagons seem to be all town. Why did scum not vote them? Obvious answer is maybe it's as easy as the team is just Aero/Saudade.

__________________

I just read everything else and have nothing to add on it. It's all either spam, stuff that has already been said, or just not relevant.

why arent u creating content then?

You quoted what I've got at the moment. Today was busy. I was with family for my grandpa's 70th birthday. I come back and there's like another ten pages. I'm just trying to keep up at the moment.

KMD I need you to start posting more than a post per 10 pages

Then quit creating 10 pages every time I'm doing anything other than reading the thread. *shrug*

But you can't just cya, if you don't like how its being played, why aren't you actively trying to change gamestate to develop reads? Ask some questions or whatever. IDK. But rn kinda feels to me that you are just saying yo gamestate sucks but I don't want to do anything about it.

My only issue with gamestate is that I was wrong on Day 1 and it's too fast paced. I'm reading what Katyusha has to say and it just makes too much sense so I'm basically on board with Aero/Saudade as the most likely team. I mean...what questions do you expect to "improve gamestate"? "Why do you post so much?" lol

[Kmd4390]

saudade/gamma
kmd/gamma
----
kmd/saudade
n_m/gamma
----
n_m/oka
oka/gamma
----
kmd/oka
----
kmd/n_m
saudade/n_m
saudade/oka

sorry for spamming lol, just realized i left out a pretty important team :/

I don't see any reason to disagree with the order of the non-me teams here and that means the most likely team without gamma is Not_Mafia/oka which I don't think is it. So I'm good with a gamma lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Let's start here. What made you think I was disappointed with gamestate? And why does that matter more than who to lynch today?

pedit: ok so you are pretty ok with gamestate then, right?

*shrug*. I've never really been one to think about gamestate. For me, it's more about reads and action. Who is scum and how can we get them lynched. After you brought it up though, I realized that yeah the amount of posting is a lot to keep up with. That's my biggest gamestate issue.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, ok. I must have been misunderstanding what you meant by gamestate then.

What I mean is I'm not really confident that I've read anyone correctly on their play because I know I've been wrong a lot. I feel pretty good about Gamma's chances of being scum based on vote counts and Katyusha's possible pairs posts.

my hope with my interaction with saudade was to point out how flawed his reasoning is.

Well that's a given. You and Not_Mafia carry your playstyles from game to game so him saying you are scum together for playstyle reasons obviously isn't selling me. If Not_Mafia had a history of being active and verbose or no history at all, sure, maybe there'd be something to what he's saying. But that's not the case. You guys both play the way you are playing now as both alignments so that's the wrong way to try to read either of you.

[Kmd4390]

Should I just hammer gamma? It's only the first of two lynches so we can still talk and Lynch one more time before going to night.

[Kmd4390]

So are we waiting for that to happen?

[Kmd4390]

I'll wait until you're ready then. I don't really see myself not hammering at some point though.

[Kmd4390]

the deeper point i'm getting at is that i don't have the insider knowledge that you're town and think that either kmd is bussing you to lynch saudade and oka at endgame or that saudade doesn't want to lynch his partner more than likely

meaning that i need like, reasons from your vantage point to scumread oka

Saudade and oka? I thought you said I'm next if gamma is scum. Am I misremembering that?

[Kmd4390]

What's a poppy head?

[Kmd4390]

Oh

[Kmd4390]

Katyusha I'm waiting just for you so if you change your mind just say the word.

[Kmd4390]

I feel so robbed

[Kmd4390]

I want a name from not_mafia. Or was poopy head it?

[Kmd4390]

Did you know there's a handy dandy Not_Mafia titty squeeze command, it's;

Code: Select all

[v]Gamma Emerald[/v]

V Gamma Emerald v

[Kmd4390]

Oh Saudade did that already. My bad

[Kmd4390]

Woof woof

[Kmd4390]

Well that means Kmd would have to vote me

I plan to. I asked if anyone wanted to hear you out first and Katyusha does so... We wait.

[Kmd4390]

Playing for me has exclusive perks playing for Kat does not.

If you're both town, I'm playing for both of you. What is the harm in waiting?

[Kmd4390]

Right now you're playing for Kat if you hammer Gamma

Nah, I think gamma is the most likely player to be scum. I'm not voting there for katyusha. I'm waiting for Katyusha.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not voting not_mafia or oka today. If I was gonna do not-gamma it would be Saudade but I don't at all want to do that before gamma.

[Kmd4390]

or you post and thats all I see

Ok. No sense wasting my time talking to you then.

[Kmd4390]

Guess

14?

[Kmd4390]

I'm still here

[Kmd4390]

Vote Gamma

Let's see the flip.

[Kmd4390]

Ugh, now what

[Kmd4390]

Katyusha, how sure are you that we can rule out not_mafia/Saudade or oka/Saudade? I feel like those were only thrown out on the assumption scum won't bus but not_mafia didn't do anything to get Saudade actually lynched and he's gone away from that since. And Saudade hasn't said anything that's actually convinced anyone oka is scum. My point is that Saudade looks the most individually scummy in vote counts, but your logic leaves him no partners from my point of view if I'm sure you are town.

Oh cool reading farther shows me oka is realizing not_mafia/Saudade might be a team too.

where is kmd

You posted this at almost 3am so naturally like any other reasonable human being I was... Watching TV with my wife. Lol.

@kmd, give me the most elaborate read you have on not_mafia

Well I had him as the most individually scummy of current living player Day 1. I think he slides into the second scummiest slot now. I kind of think it's Saudade/him. I wish Saudade had done Kat's thing because I'm still confident she's town. All I need is to rule out you and the game is solved from my point that of view. I mean I'd be willing to listen if someone thinks Kat is scum but I'm just not reaching that conclusion on my own. That only leaves Saudade, not_mafia, and you. So yeah that's where I'm at. Leaning Saudade/not_mafia and if I'm wrong, you're probably scum.

[Kmd4390]

Also gonna say what I think should be obvious just in case. Lynching for possible number of partners in LYLO would be dumb. The only thing we should look at partners for is ruling someone out entirely. If someone has no viable partners, we can take them off the table. But I'm not listening to any argument that "x only makes sense as scum with z where a can be scum with b or c so Lynch a". It only takes one.

[Kmd4390]

thought about it for the entire day but im back on kmd/saudade vs oka/n_m being the possible teams and am heavily leaning the latter

want to do a full reread though

I don't think Saudade is town though...

[Kmd4390]

Katyusha what would you think about lynching not_mafia today?

[Kmd4390]

The fact that I town read you and Katyusha mostly.

[Kmd4390]

Not_mafia post after me too. Prove we aren't a team.

[Kmd4390]

Also Katyusha if you are still here.

[Kmd4390]

Cool

I’m tempted to vote Oka just to confirm you as town from his pov but idk how ballsy I’m feeling

Sorry for triple vote but please don't do this. Saudade/not_mafia scum team could win with that move.

[Kmd4390]

Sweeeeet

[Kmd4390]

Hi

[Kmd4390]

50% sounds awesome.

[Kmd4390]

I don't see any reason to Lynch outside of those two now so not_mafia if it's up to me you get to stay today.

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: saudade

no more need for discussion

This is not a hammer

[Kmd4390]

Oh lol.

[Kmd4390]

Well I'm gonna keep posting and you can figure all this out lol. It's still early and my brain is off

[Kmd4390]

When I stepped away just now though I realized not_mafia is probably scum but unlikely to be on the table because you guys can't rule out me/Saudade

Possible teams in order of likeliness for me:
Saudade/not_mafia
Oka/not_mafia
Oka/Saudade
Saudade/Katyusha
Oka/Katyusha

For everyone else there is me/Saudade and me/oka.

I don't think oka's vote can change anything, right? Because every team involves either him (voting Saudade) or Saudade (being voted).

So we have all we are getting with these votes.

Oh wait no. Because if oka keeps posting, we can rule out him/me and him/Katyusha for not quickhammering not_mafia.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. We did the same thing at the same time and got different results.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, I see. You took out you/oka and me/oka already. I mean I guess he'd stick around in that case so fair I guess.

[Kmd4390]

I'm here. Was in shower. Sorry

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: Saudizzle

My first instinct is always correct

Acknowledged

[Kmd4390]

So Saudade is my only possible partner from everyone's point of view, correct?

[Kmd4390]

Saudade/not_mafia - now requires LYLO cross bussing
Oka/not_mafia - still possible
Oka/Saudade - Still possible
Saudade/Katyusha - still possible?

Katyusha/oka

- Katyusha could have hammered saudade
me/Saudade - still possible

me/oka

- I could have hammered saudade.

Am I missing anything?

[Kmd4390]

Sigh of relief goes here

Ok so even if you can theoretically be scum w saudade I’m going to hardclear you - so from that we have

Oka/N_M
Oka/Saudade
N_M/Saudade

I think Oka is the most likely to flip independently and I’m sticking to my associative reads being correct and that I consistently followed the red herrings that came from townreading Oka. I guess our compromise option is N_M, but then we risk Saudade bussing correctly (though I think N_M not voting me here ever has scum equity)

Pedit: To us, yeah. Saudade can be scum with everyone but I don’t think that makes him the correct vote

Nah if I vote Saudade it's absolutely not because of his number of possible partners. Like I said earlier that's bad play today.

[Kmd4390]

If Saudade/not_mafia could be ruled out, I see why oka has to be the Lynch. No other team without him makes any sense to me. I think looking through not_mafia's meta for what his bussing looks like could be beneficial here. Unfortunately I don't have time to do that until my kids go to bed tonight.

[Kmd4390]

If Saudade/not_mafia could be ruled out, I see why oka has to be the Lynch. No other team without him makes any sense to me. I think looking through not_mafia's meta for what his bussing looks like could be beneficial here. Unfortunately I don't have time to do that until my kids go to bed tonight.

Actually you/Saudade is the only other team lol. And if that's the team I'd want to Lynch Saudade first so yeah consider me woof woof again today.

[Kmd4390]

She said 30 minutes. You only waited 29.

[Kmd4390]

That would be fun. I'd be confirmed town.

[Kmd4390]

Also that means I dont have to be courteous anymore and can say mean things


Pedit: I effectively have a confirmed scum on you? As in equivalent to me being cop?

Lol what? How do you rule out Saudade/not_mafia with the same confidence as a power role result?

[Kmd4390]

Oh.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, ok. The cop guilty thing was hypothetical for if Katyusha were to vote and no quickhammer comes. Got it. This is why I should finish my coffee before playing mafia lol.

[Kmd4390]

I Think Katyusha would have voted you already as scum, oka. If we confirmed that the team was Saudade/Katyusha or oka is scum, I think she'd be confident she can get oka lynched for the win.

[Kmd4390]

Lmoa woof woof

[Kmd4390]

Oka why aren't you trying to convince us to Lynch Saudade?

[Kmd4390]

Fair

[Kmd4390]

inherently there exists no real me neither does there exist a real you. we all put on diff personas when we talk to people. you don't act the same with strangers vs friends vs families. yes i have an online persona and you do too.

saudade has been shitposting this entire game and tunneling. for someone who is as old as he is, he should be able to show some semblance of critical thinking.

Second time this week I've heard 23 called "old". I'd love to be 23 again.

For real though I wonder why not_mafia didn't see on his own that Saudade should be confirmed scum from his point of view.

[Kmd4390]

Transcend definitely plays to win.

[Kmd4390]

Holy fuck oka is too young to even remember 9/11? Can I even say fuck in front of him?

[Kmd4390]

F.. sh.... Crap

[Kmd4390]

I don't disagree with you about Saudade.

Hell

heck, I might vote him. But that sounds like a playstyle thing. If you can find me a town game where he shows more critical thinking than this, then you have a point.

Preview edit that's at oka if it wasn't obvious

[Kmd4390]

Because it's funny

[Kmd4390]

You can't be serious...

[Kmd4390]

No Transcend is like you but... I think slightly more serious and wants to be everyone's friend unless he scum reads them. He's banned now though.

[Kmd4390]

I am serious. Every post has a reason behind it. Whether its emotional or calculated, there is a reason why everyone makes a post. The fact that there is a submit button and essentially a filter to what you say makes it so all your posts have to be strategic. I don't care what alignment you are, you still filter stuff out.

I ask you again, why would someone care about coming off as funny on page 3?

Because it's his schtick. I think he does it as either alignment.

[Kmd4390]

Katyusha does scum-oka say this to scum-not_mafia?

@not_mafia if you are town sheep me, if you are scum sheep me anyways so you dont get lynched tomorrow. saudade is effectively confirmed scum for both of us.

To me it looks like he was going through pairs to figure out where everyone is going to vote, figured out Saudade should be confirmed to not_mafia, typed "if you are town", and realized afterwards it applies to a scum not_mafia too.

[Kmd4390]

I am serious. Every post has a reason behind it. Whether its emotional or calculated, there is a reason why everyone makes a post. The fact that there is a submit button and essentially a filter to what you say makes it so all your posts have to be strategic. I don't care what alignment you are, you still filter stuff out.

I ask you again, why would someone care about coming off as funny on page 3?

For what it's worth, don't ever lose this mentality though. I've caught scum in the first few pages this way. You just have to realize that a lot of the time the reason for things isn't always alignment.

[Kmd4390]

I mean...

Here are the possibilities.
1. Saudade is scum..
1a. His partner is bussing him because he started LYLO voting off with a bus. This is oka or not_mafia.
1b. His partner is Katyusha or myself. I know it's not me and Katyusha is my strongest town read.
2. Saudade is town, correctly called the scum team. They responded by voting him. This is oka/not_mafia which Katyusha also had as the team going into today.

So I'm not at all ready to hammer Saudade.

[Kmd4390]

If we Lynch Oka:
1. He flips scum. We try to Lynch his partner tomorrow.
2. Scum wins.
2a. Scum was Katyusha/Saudade. Wtf?
2b. Scum was Not_Mafia/Saudade. I should have trusted my instinct.

[Kmd4390]

I feel like a Saudade/Katyusha team counts on me sheeping them and goes all out against oka/not_mafia though and if they are scum that's exactly what happened.

Fu.....crap.

[Kmd4390]

LYLO is hard

[Kmd4390]

I feel like a Saudade/Katyusha team counts on me sheeping them and goes all out against oka/not_mafia though and if they are scum that's exactly what happened.

Fu.....crap.

I don't think scum Katyusha in this world waits this long to vote though. She could vote and Saudade would be like come on woof woof what are you waiting for. I can only think of town reasons not to have voted oka yet.

[Kmd4390]

I'm gonna step away. My trigger finger is getting itchy and there's still a chance it's Saudade/not_mafia and I think my family feels ignored today lmoa.

[Kmd4390]

1) Some people do this some of the time, sure. It's not a 100% thing or easy to do but yes meta can change.

2) Mistakes are possible, yes.

3) Like I said before, alignment isn't always the purpose. For example, do you only use the word "their" when you mean "there" as one alignment?

4) Some people are better at this than others.

[Kmd4390]

I mean I'm not at all gonna say you are more likely to typo as one alignment over the other. But yeah not proofreading is a reason for a typo. The reason for not proofreading can be that you care more about your message than how it's delivered (either alignment) or something came up in real life so you just hit submit (this never has anything to do with alignment).

[Kmd4390]

yeah i agree that not everything is alignment indicative but everything has a meaning and somethings are more likely to come from scum than town.

agree/disagree

Agree

[Kmd4390]

I wait for a game to reach a certain point of content, then I reread and come to a conclusion.
dare I say never have i based my reads on things that come from RVS or the first 5 pages generally but everyone have their own methods i suppose

^Unless this was a lie, he was probably just passing time with those first ten posts.

[Kmd4390]

My guess is he struggles to create content so he waits for others to do it for him. The joking is probably just what he considers the most fun way to pass time. He doesn't seem the time to just not post when he doesn't have anything useful to say. This is all probably true as either town or scum.

I'm sure there are better reasons to vote Saudade than that he joked throughout RVS.

[Kmd4390]

So he trolls, is bad at writing cases, and doesn't play as hard as you do. Do you think Saudade as town is a better player?

[Kmd4390]

What specifically makes you think he'd do that as town?

[Kmd4390]

i guess i can't know for sure that town!saudade would play like that. but basically all town players play to win unless they get emotional in which case they might do some throwy things.

I disagree with this.

[Kmd4390]

but basically all town players play to win unless they get emotional in which case they might do some throwy things.

I disagree with this.

This, I mean.

[Kmd4390]

that site meta isn't what it used to be...

[Kmd4390]

Explain

I'm just old I guess lol

[Kmd4390]

In 2008-2010ish, if you posted one liners all the time, you were considered an unreadable VI who isn't trying. A few people would openly call you a policy Lynch, but most would justify a scum read and you'd be lynched Day 1 in most of your games. Everyone else posted walls and built cases with numbers or bullet points or something fancy to make it stand out. Everyone else was expected to comment on the case and agree/disagree and say why. There was a lot more logic and debate and a lot less fluff and memes. Games would take up less pages but it was bigger posts and almost the entire thread was game content.

Compare that to now and you can see why I don't care for the changes. People fluff post constantly and when I'm 5 pages behind people say "oh just skip it lol". To a 2008er, that just feels so wrong. Surely, 5 pages is way too much content to miss. Then a style like not_mafias (no offense dude) that would have been Day 1 lynched in every game gets looked at as "oh that's just the way he is" which I understand is correct and all because his style doesn't make him scum. But you see the difference. We've lynched three people and not_mafia and Saudade are still here.

I dunno. Maybe the new mafiascum isn't any worse but it's for sure changed and when you've seen the old style, yeah it feels like no one is trying anymore.

I've also had a rough night so if this feels whiney or whatever I apologize. I'm gonna be in a rough place mentally for the remainder of this game for sure. RL stuff. *Shrug*

[Kmd4390]

Usually it was a way to look like you're contributing if you're scum or a weak player. Now it's more "lol memes" for the sake of it. The point is in current site meta, people do it as both alignments and care more about being funny than winning the game. With Saudade, I think the way to read him is more look at his pushes than the memes and jokes. Yes, he's a meme poster. Yes, that makes things difficult for the rest of us. But reading into his reasons for being a meme poster is about as useless as drying off with a wet towel.

Instead, I'm looking at his votes on you and not_mafia. The first votes of LYLO. So either Katyusha is his buddy (Katyusha wanting to eliminate possible teams the way she has isn't something I expect scum to do) or he decided bussing was the best way to play LYLO. That means he expects not to get lynched tomorrow after his buddy flips or he is confident whichever of you/not_mafia is town won't be lynched. Katyusha was already floating a you/not_mafia team so he couldn't count on Katyusha not voting one of you. I had expressed doubt in not_mafia but not you. So if Saudade bussed because he thought his buddy would survive, that points to you/Saudade. Now is there a scenario where he bussed and expected to live tomorrow after his buddy flips? Meh, probably not.

The other possibility is Saudade is town and was just right about you/not_mafia.

Either of those two possibilities seems to have you as scum. The only other possible teams are Katyusha/Saudade which I don't see or Saudade/not_mafia. I really am running out of ways you can be town.

Then looking at your play specifically today (as in RL today), I feel like you as town knowing that Saudade is scum and that you are on the chopping block with him would be more urgent in pushing that we need to Lynch Saudade or we are going to lose. Scum you knows that you can still win if you are lynched. Scum you is trying to appear level headed and not flail because there is still hope that you either live or get lynched and win anyway. As town, you don't have that luxury. Katyusha has believed since day start that you and not_mafia are scum. The only way town you wins is by getting through to me and making me vote Saudade. And I just don't feel that sense of urgency coming from you. I made the trigger finger comment for your benefit to see if that urgency would come out. I don't see it.

Tl;Dr woof woof

Preview edit: hitting submit before I read the rest.

[Kmd4390]

You aren't getting it. He isn't the kind of person who is going to out-logic you. If it was a logic battle with you as scum and him as town and whoever wins the debate wins the game, scum wins every time. However, when he votes, he makes his intentions clear.

I do think I'm ready to vote though if Katyusha is.

Woof woof.

[Kmd4390]

Oka today is probably the first day since this game started that I didn't leave the house. Then something happened in RL that made me need distractions to get my mind off of RL. That's the main reason I'm more active.

[Kmd4390]

I'll live

[Kmd4390]

Oka, first off I'd never lie about real life. I'm a busy guy and if you look through my last five years or so of past games you'll see it gets mentioned in almost every game as both alignments. I'm only in one game as a result.

But I want to point out one inconsistency in your logic anyway. You say a me/Saudade team would be close to winning. But why does that lead to Saudade going quiet (I don't think he has but meh) and me being more engaged? Is it just the fact that he's already voted? And why wouldn't I have voted sooner if Katyusha seems so intent on voting you anyway?

Also, I know you briefly mention the idea that town me wants to solve but... There's also the fact that we spent a few hours confirming teams as impossible so being around for that was important. And being near the end of a game is a critical spot for everyone.

Everything you are saying about Saudade STILL boils down to style. None of it makes him scum.

[Kmd4390]

What makes you want to vote not_mafia over oka?

[Kmd4390]

woof woof

[Kmd4390]

Ahhh

[Kmd4390]

Katyusha:

Usually it was a way to look like you're contributing if you're scum or a weak player. Now it's more "lol memes" for the sake of it. The point is in current site meta, people do it as both alignments and care more about being funny than winning the game. With Saudade, I think the way to read him is more look at his pushes than the memes and jokes. Yes, he's a meme poster. Yes, that makes things difficult for the rest of us. But reading into his reasons for being a meme poster is about as useless as drying off with a wet towel.

Instead, I'm looking at his votes on you and not_mafia. The first votes of LYLO. So either Katyusha is his buddy (Katyusha wanting to eliminate possible teams the way she has isn't something I expect scum to do) or he decided bussing was the best way to play LYLO. That means he expects not to get lynched tomorrow after his buddy flips or he is confident whichever of you/not_mafia is town won't be lynched. Katyusha was already floating a you/not_mafia team so he couldn't count on Katyusha not voting one of you. I had expressed doubt in not_mafia but not you. So if Saudade bussed because he thought his buddy would survive, that points to you/Saudade. Now is there a scenario where he bussed and expected to live tomorrow after his buddy flips? Meh, probably not.

The other possibility is Saudade is town and was just right about you/not_mafia.

Either of those two possibilities seems to have you as scum. The only other possible teams are Katyusha/Saudade which I don't see or Saudade/not_mafia. I really am running out of ways you can be town.

Then looking at your play specifically today (as in RL today), I feel like you as town knowing that Saudade is scum and that you are on the chopping block with him would be more urgent in pushing that we need to Lynch Saudade or we are going to lose. Scum you knows that you can still win if you are lynched. Scum you is trying to appear level headed and not flail because there is still hope that you either live or get lynched and win anyway. As town, you don't have that luxury. Katyusha has believed since day start that you and not_mafia are scum. The only way town you wins is by getting through to me and making me vote Saudade. And I just don't feel that sense of urgency coming from you. I made the trigger finger comment for your benefit to see if that urgency would come out. I don't see it.

Tl;Dr woof woof

Preview edit: hitting submit before I read the rest.

I feel like I'm no longer capable of making good decisions or thinking rationally because of RL. Last night was worse than when I said I was going through things before. But looking back, this is where I explained why I want to Lynch oka today.

[Kmd4390]

Do you think I should vote oka?

[Kmd4390]

If oka flips scum we are both confirmed anyway. If he doesn't, the game is over. We're both confirmed as can only be scum with suadade.

[Kmd4390]

I don't see how but ok

[Kmd4390]

Ok

[Kmd4390]

Unvote if there's a benefit to it.

[Kmd4390]

[Kmd4390]

Katyusha trust your instincts but wait until you are sure enough that you can't see yourself voting differently. Is there still a chance you vote not_mafia? Is there still a chance you vote suadade?

[Kmd4390]

I have conflicting feelings.

I think, based on the associatives I'm seeing and have seen all game, the only logical team is N_M/Oka. But I mostly just want to make sure that I didn't screw up how I'm reading those interactions and let Saudade win off of good distancing (tbf most of the interactions I see with Saudade teams are eliminated because of the reactions *to* Saudade, but I don't want to discredit N_M or Oka's ability to react to scum partners) or go against a townread I've held all game.

It's more just tying up loose ends rather than be being unsure.

Then take as long as you need. Feel free to bounce ideas off of me. If you're town, you now know 100% I'm on your team.

[Kmd4390]

kmd do u like winning

Winning is one of the things I value most in life.

[Kmd4390]

if u want to win then u should vote saudade :^)

Scum-you would say the same thing and be trying to deceive me </3

[Kmd4390]

If kmd and kat would trust me this game would be over by now zzzz

It's a game of mafia. Why should I trust anyone?

[Kmd4390]

Why is that exciting if you aren't ready to vote him yet?

[Kmd4390]

because i could clear myself to him and just have hard confirmation in everyone's pov that it's N_M/Oka N_M/Sauade or Oka/Saudade

That makes perfect sense and fits with what your mindset has been all along. Sorry for the brief bit of doubt.

[Kmd4390]

Sausage

[Kmd4390]

Hmm

[Kmd4390]

Woah

[Kmd4390]

Oka, I forget. Did you give any kind of case specifically for a suadade/not_mafia team?

[Kmd4390]

Kinda leaning that way.

[Kmd4390]

Because you/not_mafia makes more sense.

[Kmd4390]

I thought you were Okapoka

[Kmd4390]

Identity crisis.

[Kmd4390]

Ugh now I'm behind again and out of town til monday

[Kmd4390]

I thought we were lynching oka.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah.

You played well Katyusha. Used good logic, obvtowned, took charge. Just couldn't quite nail the scum team.

[Kmd4390]

I thought my oka post was pretty strong...

[Kmd4390]

Should have picked up on him not being able to put together a case on Saudade though. And I was right that his LYLO plea to not_mafia didn't make sense as buddies but I didn't stick with it.

[Kmd4390]

Thought I voted plenty until LYLO?