Micro 844: Geriatric Half Mast Nightless [Endgame]
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OkaPoka Survivor
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Hello there.
VOTE: cheekyteeky
Why? Who knows...
Anyways I figured I'd explain why I am playing a geriatric game because I can.
Often times when I play mafia, I always try and not post that much because I feel like I post too much and then I end up spam posting the game around the middle of day 1 and yeah. So maybe this rule set in my mind will keep me from making triple-quadruple posts. Also I can't speak well concisely and I never edit my posts barring maybe the first few, so I guess I'll try and keep my posts my "professional." No promises though.
As for the setup, I really didn't care for the setup when I joined so I guess I'll go ahead and check it out.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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This might be the perfect playerlist to do this. Y'all wanna do some RAoPS? (Random Asking of Philosophy Stage) where we hit each other up with some philsophical questions about how we view the game should be played? Yes? Please? Yes?
10 posts every 24 hours is a lot lmao I don't think I really need to hardcore restrict myself.
First question should be, do you believe in lynching lylo liabilties (aka policy lynching people who are troll-y)?-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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OkaPoka Survivor
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Most games I don't have good reads until later on(I can feel confident but usually they are trash reads), so as a result I've embraced the idea of clearing people I can't sort/most people can't sort early. Even if I have a scumread early, its usually based on some weak foundation so as a result I do like policy lynching over scumreads most of the time d1.
Of course exceptions occur if I have a strong enough scumread on someone.
I've seen how much trouble slots that are very difficult to sort have caused as maf, and won games that were undeserved because certain players were just too lynchable but made it to lylo. I've also clashed a lot with people I thought were scum, but ended up flipping my read on them, but when I scumread someone I tend to get into a 1v1 mode to force stuff so its usually a bad sign if I push someone early because it means the game gets zzz for everyone else. I try to steer clear of 1v1s best I can, but sometimes it just happens.
I don't know if I would consider my lynching preference as policy lynching, its more of creating a better environment for town to succeed later on. (And of course make it easier for me to sort people).
Especially with mountainous setups like these with no pr mechanics to save us, I think lynching the slot hardest to sort would be a good gameplan day 1.
That was a lot of rambly ideas. But I want to make this post a warning post to anyone who wants to meme this game and be purposely hard to sort because that's just rude.
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Anyways since this is a mountainous setup, anyone else agree with my game plan of lynching lurk slots/troll slots day 1 if they appear?
I've played two mountainous setups "recently", both as scum, both won precisely because of some really fortunate slots decided to gift my team the win.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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viewtopic.php?f=84&t=77358 (this game was with n_m) honestly winnable for town, lylo with 3v2, but n_m got kinda compromised lynched.
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=76784 replaced into a scum slot, had a lot of interesting players tho-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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hard to do a proper take on everyone this early + not everyone has checked in but
I don't like shoshin too much because she seems to have a very high opinion of herself.
Brass is playing the "haha look im so awkward card" too much. Also I do not believe brass has truly endured the suffering of a scarring lylo situation.
I like slimer's opinion on the game. Feels like he has suffered/seen some free town wins gone down the drain, and the fact that he's adapting to it is a good sign.
As for you cheeky, I don't know. You are just different than DDU.
Yeah none of that is AI, but whatever.
Everyone else hasn't done enough stuff for me to have a take on them.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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I don't think there is enough to policy lynch anyone (yet). The point is that hopefully this is enough warning shots to make sure nobody ever decides to dance with the idea of being policy lynched, because in the end I don't like policy-lynching, its more of a necessary evil. In that DDU game, if I were town, Not_mafia and saudade would have been cleaned up day 1.
But the greater picture is if I can get everyone on board with policy lynching individuals who do go the troll route, then nobody will ever dare to enter the "look at me im a troll" stage, so if u want, you can throw yourself behind this idea too.
Sausage was scum that game, so him scumreading you was probably just leaving his options open for a lynch. I guess I'll see whats-up as we go down further.-
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viewtopic.php?f=83&t=77685
this one?
That game was just disgusting to watch. Though to be honest I thought you were scum that game, so I guess I can't actually read you. I'm hoping that town!you can find scum out day before lylo.
I need to stop posting and let others have fun.
Maestro hasn't posted btw guys.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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Still don't see what Shoshin means by
Cheeky response by quoting me, but I don't feel it so ehh? Its going over my head.Lots of words to say nothing.
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Brass I think that we should lynch people that will get autolynched in lylo or corrupt how lylo is played out. For example, someone who straight up lolhammers should be autolynched before lylo. Saving them for "later reevaluation" is naive.
Not planning this game (or any game) for lylo is setting up for failure.
Town can piece together the game a lot better as the game goes on (should be self-evident) thus wouldn't you want the best people to be there when you have the most to work off of? Assuming that we can be successful with little-no information is just silly and at that point we are rolling dices to win. Especially in mountainous games where interaction is key to finding things out.
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Nothing slimer has done is AI.
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Townslipping does not exist and solidifying townreads off of "townslips" and early interactions is yikes.
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u r a person 2 is getting scary close to how i played DDU.
VOTE: u r a person 2
Don't know what no lunch sees in u r a person 2 but whatever.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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OkaPoka Survivor
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Cheeky, have you hit doubt = zero on Shoshin?
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I have some private notes on what I'm expecting u r a person 2 to be doing as scum/town, but part of the reason why I think your play so far is close to my DDU scumgame is your target selection of who you are siding with/going against. Don't want to elaborate more on that until I know its not coincidence. Cheeky is kinda right but also missing some stuff.
But no I don't think you are a troll/lurker fwiw. And my stance of this is more nuanced then getting the most lylo-liability person hung, I still scumhunt, but if I feel someone will compromise the ability of lylo to be played succesfully enough, then I'll switch to policy-lynching. Nobody qualifies in this category here yet, and part of the reason why I started the discussion was partially to get content rolling, but also so everyone would be deincentivized to be lurky/trolly even if its a geriatric.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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@no lunch, was just wondering if you had a main that Cheeky knew about and meta'd you from there.
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Anyways here are my thoughts.
Watching the same three people go at it, (no lunch, u r a person 2, and CheekyTeeky) for this long does nothing to further the game state for town. I think it would be healthier for the game if we paused this argument, enough has been said on either side to make a decision and reinforcing it will just give more room for scum slots to posture in and attach to (barring the scenario in which all three are scum). If anything, any development in this triad should be only furthered by outside slots because otherwise this game will devolve into watch three people go at it while the others spectate.
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Anyways, Cheeky that's a d1 doubt=zero from you on no lunch. Do you feel likewise for u r a person 2? I don't know how comfortable I am with the idea of you hard defending me and then following me onto this wagon when you have a self-proclaimed 100% success rate on doubt=zero'ing d1 on somebody else. Even with your explanation, a scum lynch is a scum lynch, no?
I'm pretty sure u r a person 2 is scum here, but still.
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Part 2, why u r a person 2 is scum. I'll keep it short.
When playing DDU, I was scum.
My mentality was to get townread early, buddy up, and then help powerpush through the game. I would basically double down with my town butt-buddy (katy that game) and help attack whoever we were duo-pushing together, even try and steer her in the direction of a mislynch. Also had other goals but those are irrelevant to this discussion.
Seeing u r a person 2's iso, I see a slot that's trying to find a buddy in town and then ganging up on the common "scumread." His "unique-r" analysis comes after he gangs up, which is key because that's what I did as scum.
Fwiw I townread Shoshin which contributes to my theory.
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Maestro has big post. I skimmed. I think I answered some questions by elaborating in wall post. LMK if you need anything else answered.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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I'm asking for a distinction of why Cheeky is preferring u r a person 2 to no lunch. With the doubt=zero in my mind. I was wondering because previously Cheeky was pushing no lunch. Now I wonder harder because I see a doubt = zero d1.1. If you think they should provide more reasoning for a vote, just say that. If you disagree with how they voted for the person you're voting for, just say that. Why go through all the trouble to question somebody about a vote but be all awkward about it?
Nothing to respond to here.2. I like this qvestion. Zees ees good qvestion.@no lunch RE the response in 164:it matters because they wanna know if you're Scum or not so please link some games from whatever other site you've played on, and if it's EpicMafia I promise to only judge you a little bit.
What do you want me to say? I didn't check if you were on site or not. I clicked on your iso and saw 2 posts from you in total.3. The next time you wanna get all opportunistic, just commit, bro. Lurking =/= Not Being On-site. You have a 2014 join date. Act like it?
I think we are good here?
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Brass you just made an entire post elaborating on aubrey and slimer.
Then you voted Cheeky.
Elaborate on Cheeky too please.
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Town!Shoshin is town for now as long as she remains this way. She has limited herself too much to win as scum, even if its disagreeable.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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I like where my vote is Cheeky. Don't see how anything he has done can change your mind if you are following my thought process here. The part where scum gets caught is the initial phase of finding someone to stick to, like in DDU where I was still trying to find a spot to fit into and buddy up. Didn't you basically doubt=zero onto him Cheeky?
Cheeky's tone is all over the place this game, but I don't know if this is out of her town range. I don't think tonereading is an effective way to read Cheeky. Her alignment is contingent on the accuracy of her reads, imo.
Whether Maestro wk you or not I don't think really matters now? If he did WK you we would have to preflip you as town here.
I'll post more after slimer posts.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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U2, I'm not metaing you. I'm using personal experience to read you. I'm an expert on how I think.
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@cheeky
On Maestro. I don't see a WK from him really. A WK usually is stronger and has follow through, and he's just kinda nullreading you and being ambivalent. I actually think the bigger issue with him is whatever that commitment post was.
Come back to u2, he does not seem like a noob so your "defense" of him and townread of him doesn't hold up. If shoshin is scum, she'll trip up eventually because she literally cannot maintain her position as scum forever, unless she decides to completely abandon her teammates. U2 is trying to split the game into two blocs methinks.
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@shoshin so what's your scum meta like? Do you throw out townreads as scum?-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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OkaPoka Survivor
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OkaPoka Survivor
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You aren't misrepping. I've been in your shoes and laughed at policy lynches, but I've seen too many games get too close or lost because certain slots weren't dealt with earlier. C9++ should be evidence enough for a game that got too close. I do mention maestro though in that sentence. I still deep down don't like policy lynching, but its a necessary evil.
Anyways I can see why you think that I'm using my own scum meta to case U2. I really can. But it goes beyond that. I'm just citing my own play as examples of why U2 play is scum-indicative. If you want, ignore the me part of the equation. U2 is still guilty of what I accuse him of, I just want to see if Cheeky got what I was saying, because getting Cheeky sorted was the most important factor for me this game. Its not meta. Its thinking like scum to catch them.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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Well then its your opinion, and if you are town I'm taking Cheeky's evaluation over your evaluation.
I think I specifically mentioned maestro for the policy lynch thing though, no?
The point about me specifically is because I felt like I saw something, and continue to see something that nobody else is. I use myself as an example because I've done it as scum. He isn't supposed to defend himself because mafia is not a game where one side makes an argument and the other side makes a counterargument. If he wants to prove himself as town, he'll do so. The latter is easy to fake. Its about seeing the mentality. And if I can stop his roll and make sure this "townbloc" doesn't do what the DDU "townbloc" did, then my job here is done. Townblocs just aren't town though. I haven't played with an actually pure townbloc. Its lazy play for town, its free ride for scum.-
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Because the townbloc did not emerge from flips, it emerged from tone reads. That's the worse way to create tone reads.
In DDU I got townread because of an RVS comment I made and basically made it through lylo in a townbloc this way.
In Grey Flag, two of three scum including myself got townbloc'd because we made posts with content while the actual town were playing poorly.
In this game, the townbloc of {Shoshin, U2, NL} forms from Shoshin townreading them. But it solidifies because they are basically pushing the same few people, which this early without flips is just sus because that means they have to all share a common way of tonereading people since really, no true content is out there yet. When I read U2 posts, I don't actually see an attempt at developing independent thought, early on. Instead, he's concerned about following his townreads and then after the fact developing a scumread on them. Like his "reason" follows his "action" when it should be the other way around for town. That's at least how I generally play scum, because you can't really have truly independent scumhunting thought. You have to find the right way in, and then you can spew whatever you want once you find your match.
The only reads he ever reconsiders are his scumreads, never his townreads. This should be a red flag in of itself, because town is generally more paranoid about buddying and what not. He's making himself too susceptible with buddying, he's too confident in his townreads. That's how I'd play scum, because I don't ever want to break a townbloc I'm in as scum, or even try and make anything be reconsidered, I'd want the gamestate to be as same as possible.-
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Well if I end up getting the noose instead of Cheeky.
I need the townies of this townbloc to reconsider why and how they managed to get be a part of it.
And do everything possible to slow down the roll.
I don't want to see my tactics win against me.
Thanks.
Meanwhile if you want to lynch scum, lynch U2.-
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Because townblocs don't form D1 out of tonereading.
And we still have time so I don't have to settle for less yet.
And nightless games are exactly why townblocs are even stronger for scum, once scum is in there is no paranoia of why haven't one of us been killed yet questions arising that is common in others.
Probably last post for today.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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I think Maestro flips town here? Like sure he's been scummy. But with wagon composition being basically same as the flashwagon that appeared on me, either we have all the town here or this is scum theater trying to find a person to lynch? Like why would scum go from town -> scum, instead of just pushing me here if Maestro is scum unless Maestro is town but easier to lynch?
Either that or wagon is all town.
Which is unlikely.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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I don't think scum busses today. Doesn't make sense as it would be too hard for them to win.
So either everyone is town voting Aubrey and Aubrey is scum or Aubrey is town.
Basically the question boils down to do I think that <Shoshin, NL, U2> are town, include <OkaPoka> if you aren't me, include <Slaxx> because he's essentially voting Aubrey.
I think its all town at this point.
That would mean Aubrey + Gamma or Aubrey + Brass.
Gamma is town.
Aubrey + Brass is gamesolve. stop townblocking brass.-
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OkaPoka Survivor
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nobodyIn post 449, Gamma Emerald wrote:Oh I forgot to ask it
Who do you think is/was a lylo liability this game?
maybe slimer?
but I'd play lylo with anyone here-
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OkaPoka
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OkaPoka
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OkaPoka Survivor
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OkaPoka Survivor
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i was wondering if i should ask if he is town or scumIn post 495, no lunch wrote:
OkaPoka. What was on your mind when you made this post? Detail, please.In post 458, OkaPoka wrote:Aubrey r u town-
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id rather have no lunch than be a person 2
That heart reminds me of a song
If there's a prize for rotten judgement,
I guess I've already won that
No man is worth the aggravation
That's ancient history, been there, done that
Who d'you think you're kidding
He's the earth and heaven to you
Try to keep it hidden,
Honey we can see right through you
Girl you can't conceal it
We know how you're feeling
Who you thinking of
No chance no way I won't say it, no no
(You swoon you sigh why deny it oh oh)
It's too cliche I won't say I'm in love
I thought my heart had learned its lesson
It feels so good when you start out
My head is screaming "Get a grip girl
Unless you're dying to cry your heart out
Girl you can't deny it
Who you are is how you're feeling
Baby we're not buying
Hon we saw you hit the ceiling
Face it like a grown-up
When you gonna own up that you got got got it bad
No chance no way I won't say it, no no
(Give up, give in, check the grin you're in love)
This scene won't play I won't say I'm in love
(We'll do it until you admit you're in love)
You're way off base I won't say it
Get off my case I won't say it
(Girl don't be proud it's okay you're in love)
At least out loud I won't say I'm in love-
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I think someone should make a post restriction game (# of posts) but you can donate remainder of your posts to other slots because I sure as hell don't want to use 10 posts per day and I think slaxx would like it over me and now I'm just saying random things because honestly i dunno anymore but ok bye goodnight lets have no lunch for lunch get it im funny haha-
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i was thinking
isnt the deadline really 30 days long per day phase because its no lynching 3 times in a row that results in a draw so we could theoretically extend the deadline over and over and then lynch and you know
seems like a flaw
not relevant to the game, my gut is still disliking of no lunch but i was just thinking-
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who said thisIn post 696, no lunch wrote:"NL is scum with Shoshin"
Shoshin flips town
"NL is scum! Look at all this scummy posting!"
It's like no one else in the town has actually played mafia before-
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