Micro 860: AMGWPPTTIOTSDED

[mbaki]

hey look, i rolled town again

[mbaki]

i think ss entrance is townie

[mbaki]

i think wisdom entrance is scummy

[mbaki]

SS
xwing - johnny - sash
Vedith - TTTT - Creature
Wisdom

[mbaki]

ebwop:

mbaki






































SS
xwing - johnny - sash
Vedith - TTTT - Creature
Wisdom

[mbaki]

:thonk:

[mbaki]

why does x place a vote at all?

[mbaki]

oh because you die if you aren't voting

okay

i think we need to find two towns though, otherwise scum can day kill x 2 minutes before deadline and then we have 4 hours for whoever's online to scramble

[mbaki]

actually this game should be stupidly easy

Creature can obv town if he's town, and he will be one of them

I will find one more town and declaratively mark them as the second one

i think this is just locked d1 unless i'm missing something lol

[mbaki]

wait

@DDL

Does the day kill reset the FULL clock or just 4 hours like a lynch? I assume the full clock but just making usre

cause if so we need to find one townie collectively, probably Creature, and then in the event scum kill him (which they will if we're right) then we just do the same with his read and autowin

if i disagree strongly with his read i will fight it but generally this just seems like a broken setup lmao

[mbaki]

lol uh i dont know if wisdom is the type of player who would propose the gamebreaking plan regardless of alignment (I know people like Jingle or myself would do it as both, but people like Mathblade would not do it as scum)

but my rvs meme read on him moves to town for bigning it up a bit

[mbaki]

creature doesnt obvtown in my recent experience

i can only cite my one completed game with Creature since returning

he was slightly scummier than I remember, but I correctly identified him as town and hard defended him (though I had more paranoia than I used to have with Creature)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78012

[mbaki]

that said, identifying town is much more trivial than scum

and this is a somewhat strong (well actually looking at it its just okay but still not bad) playerlist, so this shouldn't be hard

[mbaki]

No point rvsing in this setup

[mbaki]

okay I think Creature and Wisdom are town, also kind of SS

page 2 solve?

[mbaki]

Well

finding 2 town is still a task

just a much easier task than finding 2 scum

[mbaki]

I want to be the last town not Wisdom

I town read Wisdom

I just dont want to die

[mbaki]

Even a random number generator could win this setup more than half the time.

75% * 75% = 56.25%

If I were a betting man, I'd be milking this setup for Town To Win every time.

Cheers.

to be fair, the vast majority of mafia players have reads that are =rand long term

[mbaki]

so a 56.25 ev isnt actually that bad

[mbaki]

we need 3 conf town

which is fine because Creature and Wisdom are town

[mbaki]

Rule Amendment: If both mafia goons are lynched on the same day, they get also one-shot venge-kill.

I apologize for this. I actually designed rule 4 and 6 to specifically to counter this situation, but it clearly was not sufficient. I modified the rule set ex-post to the review, and my oversight does not reflect quality on the reviewers.

normally I would complain about a mid game rule change to hurt town but tbh it's better this way, makes the win a lot more rewarding.

[mbaki]

we need 3 conf town

which is fine because Creature and Wisdom are town

why are you not calling yourself town?

I said 3 and named 2 players, I actuall did

[mbaki]

we need 3 conf town

which is fine because Creature and Wisdom are town

I'm fine with Wisdom, but why the hell Creature has to be conf town beginning every game? Is this a hidden site rule?

hes not conf town yet but as of now this is his town game

[mbaki]

VOTE: Creature

Might as well do this

[mbaki]

There is no reason to townread Creature so far.

His entrance is more of what I'd expect his town game to post. I think I solved this one on page 2. Maybe thats just me.

[mbaki]

well that seems prematirr

[mbaki]

He just said he didn't want to put Wisdom as town, how would that kill make him look bad?

By having the kill be somebody he just didn't town read?

Anyways I'm at

mbaki
Creature SS
xwing Sash
-
Johnny
Vedith
TTTT

[mbaki]

F.

We should be able to bypass the vengekill by lynching 5 people today and then 2 people tomorrow. All we need then is one townie plus two other people who aren't scum together.

Nah. We need to identify one town now and its auto. I volunteer me. Or later, I will pick the townie and you will assume I didn't pick my scum partner and sheep me.

[mbaki]

@mod

do they get one shot vengekill EACH or for the TEAM?

Rule Amendment: If both mafia goons are lynched on the same day, they get also one-shot venge-kill.

I apologize for this. I actually designed rule 4 and 6 to specifically to counter this situation, but it clearly was not sufficient. I modified the rule set ex-post to the review, and my oversight does not reflect quality on the reviewers.

[mbaki]

I killed Wisdom. Lynch me.

[mbaki]

By having the kill be somebody he just didn't town read?

Wouldn't the surface-level assumption be that scum wouldn't cast doubt on someone and then immediately kill them?

I think it actually makes TTTT look worse but sure, surface level yea.

[mbaki]

I town read you, SS.

[mbaki]

You act like we were gonna end the discussion there with Wisdom as town. We literally can't shorten these day phases, there was going to be 9 more pages of discussion. It was just that as of page 2, Wisdom was super town.

[mbaki]

I town read you, SS.

Well, stop that.

[mbaki]

pages

days*

[mbaki]

Or scum just wanted to kill off one of the two people hard pushing the gamebreaking strat, and killed the one with a less good scum game for paranoia purposes. And/or didn't know who I am so chose Wisdom as the namekill (a mistake).

[mbaki]

I actually wanna say that

that kill kind of spews me and Creature as town

because the only benefit to shotgun killing this early is to cut off the discussion at its legs. if we went to EoD and then they should Wisdom, it is probably because town was about to win.

[mbaki]

Oh wait, there was already a shot?

we need 3 conf town

which is fine because Creature and Wisdom are town

Well, I think we first stick to two town, which will force mafia to use their daykill as early as possible. After they daykill we see what do we do.

i don't think creature is good enough to fake town slip like this as scum?

[mbaki]

actually i think ved is town
and ssss is town
and creature is lock town

dont really care about rvs reads on johnny, sash, or xwing

and tttt is probably scum

[mbaki]

VOTE: Creature

[mbaki]

Yes, we do. Myself, Vedith, and SS are all fine contenders.

[mbaki]

i am more sure on vedith town than ss town anyways

just pick your favorite out of me and vedith to live, that person can, and this game is just over.

[mbaki]

although we can't actually quick end this game because we need to stall deadline out due to lynch mechanics.

[mbaki]

@mod

, is there anything we can do to shorten the deadline? Either unanimously pm you in private to shorten it by 5 days or something?

Also, fwiw, I think this is a fine setup and fun, probably better as a marathon with deadline extensions by 2 minutes instead of 4 hours or smth. Cool concept though I like it a lot.

Granted

[mbaki]

I sent 6

[mbaki]

Vote anyone who isnt Sash or me, and if they vote anyone it's a scum claim. bam.

[mbaki]

I vote you

sash votes me

you vote literally anybody else

done.

mod posts vcs too

[mbaki]

heh, i thought about that. but realistically what scum is gonna be on every four hours to extend it? sleep is a thing

[mbaki]

uh, pretty confident, if you would feel more comfortable with 3 as a safety net then he is my first choice. but i am 95% on Creature and 100% on myself, so that is the preferable option to me.

[mbaki]

Because TTTT is scummy.

[mbaki]

gut

[mbaki]

actually i think ved is town
and ssss is town
and creature is lock town

dont really care about rvs reads on johnny, sash, or xwing

and tttt is probably scum

the other is probably Johnny, Sash, or X

probably more likely to be X, but idk.

if you get saved and sent to 3p, and the game doesnt end, that means you're scum because this is Creatures town game. Which means we get to 1v1, which is fine, and my read doesnt need to be that confident.

ime, this isnt what your scum games like. every time you've rolled scum with me your postings a lot more forced and over explained.

[mbaki]

Yea

and that town is Creature so again it doesnt really matter if Vedith is scum,him and both die if the game continues

[mbaki]

tttt if you read me as town (which presumably you do since you want me to survive), I'm telling you this is Creature's town game. I have a 20ish game streak of reading him correctly, which is a lot. so this is a lock.

[mbaki]

eddie cane

[mbaki]

every game i've played in the last year is in my egosearch, i took a break from this site for a while as i have a new main mafia site.

i dont really want to out how i read creature past activity, but its about posting style. he is high activity here which is very town indicative, but his tone / wording is his town game regardless.

[mbaki]

there's a consensus 2 tr's, which auto wins. changing the vc atm is a scum claim from anyone except vedith because vedith is probably going to be annoying and lolvote and thats playstyle.

[mbaki]

that's not really a waste, killing one of me/wisdom off super early is the proper play if we have a game winning strat. but no, i dont really think vediths scum

[mbaki]

you're putting me as town, and i'm telling you, this is creature's town game. he's never not getting saved here.

[mbaki]

he's not a hard read for me though and you have me as town, im also super curios how you have xwing as town from his 2 (?) posts o.o

[mbaki]

no it's not its openly scummy because you arent voting him after the day kill and the vote count is on this page so he definitely knew that, its posturing

[mbaki]

vedith votes for whoever
and nobody else votes and we have 3 survivors (vedith, mbaki, creature)

I will sign off on this.

[mbaki]

Don't really want to out how I read Vedith more than I have here, but this is probably his town game. I would rather just Creature and myself, but if people insist on Vedith I can accept. At worst, tomorrow Vedith and I die and Creature lives and town guarantees a win.

[mbaki]

But that makes no sense from my point of view.

And why does that make no sense, Vedith?

[mbaki]

Remember ThinkBig game where you were actively trying to gamethrow despite my hard carry? Remember how I've read Creature right in 20+ games without error?

We are not repeating that. If you are paranoid of me, then you get to come to f3 and Creature can be the sole survivor. If you are not paranoid of me, I can be the sole survivor even though that's directly suboptimal.

This is not a normal game. We are not playing this like a normal game. Wisdom died because he and I figured this out on page 3 and scum couldn't let that discussion continue for long.

I know you are more likely to vote. I already said you're the only player in the game who is going to lolvote because you're dumb (in jest) and want to have more fun xd rather than take the free win.

If you vote tomorrow, that's still fine! The only people you can vote are me and Creature who are both town. It'll be a loss for you regardless. In all odds there won't be a tomorrow because all 3 of us end up being town.

I'm not trying to be mean Vedith. You're a chill enough dude and lighthearted in games. I have a perfect winrate this year / since coming back to MS / on this alt, and I am trying very hard to maintain that. Normally, I wouldn't care about suboptimal play.

[mbaki]

Oh I'm Eddie Cane, I think I've said that somewhere in the thread too.

And fwiw, I didn't come into this intending to play this strat. Wisdom posted it and it

is

optimal, to the point the mod had to intervene to weaken it a bit (the right call @DDL, don't worry. this is an experimental setup).

[mbaki]

Okay do whatever.
Just tell me where to vote or not to vote.

At this point it's not even a game that can be played.

Well right now, vote somebody random. Say, SS.

TTTT is voting you -> you vote SS -> you're living.

Sash is voting me -> I'm voting Creature -> I'm living

I'm voting Creature -> Creature is voting SS -> Creature is living.


If you and xwing want to play the game, post reads! Play the game! You can still try to guess the scum team just for personal satisfaction and whatnot. Just leave out the voting part, because this solve I think is very very likely a lock.

Right now I'm at Eddie Creature Vedith town, Sash soft town, SS soft town, xwing ??, Johnny ??, TTTT ?? with both scum probably in those 3. If I'm wrong, its probably SS, Sash is a little stronger town.

[mbaki]

oh look the person i called scum isn't okay wtih the plan

[mbaki]

I did

I picked Vedith

[mbaki]

Creature

[mbaki]

who do you think is scum in that solve?

[mbaki]

except creature is obv town and that's a read everybody who's played with creature should have

[mbaki]

yes because hes a very easy read lol

probably Sash

[mbaki]

i mean i town lean SS, if people insist he can go over Creature. But I'm just saying, its dumb because Creature is the easiest read on site and hes town here.

[mbaki]

im not set on creature as town, though i think mbaki is town, so im a bit fine to sheep his creature read..

and did you miss this too? what's the scum motivation for simply being a doormat and being fine with the plan? zzzzzzzzzz..
scum cant afford to not be voted and not vote..

who do you think scum is? the most likely slots are you (arguing with the plan a bit but not really) < Johnny (flaked) < tttt (arguing with the plan a bit). There arent always options.

[mbaki]

Creature, who in this game should be able to read you other than me?

[mbaki]

SS is who I was thinking should be affirming my read on you, though he's absent.

[mbaki]

well SS

if you're sus of me that's fine, i know you know you can't read me

but what is your read on vedith?

[mbaki]

@Tris, who are you assuming is town in 290? me?

[mbaki]

you are the one who town read vedith, i would rather sash over vedith at this point i think but i'm okay with either.

if you think i'm scum with vedith, we can switch it to sash. but deadline is in ~14 hours so make it snappy.

[mbaki]

i will also approve switching myself to sash, actually, if and only if sash and vedith both agree to let creature be the only survivor d2 after seeing my town flip today.

[mbaki]

Vedith tryhards more as scum than town, I buy him being mad at how this turned out and disappearing being his town game.

Deadline is soon.

[mbaki]

i will also approve switching myself to sash, actually, if and only if sash and vedith both agree to let creature be the only survivor d2 after seeing my town flip today.

why sash over SS?

Stronger town read significantly.

[mbaki]

their play isn't scummy

[mbaki]

i will also approve switching myself to sash, actually, if and only if sash and vedith both agree to let creature be the only survivor d2 after seeing my town flip today.

Sounds like a good plan.

@Vedith your choice then, i can switch my vote to Sash who can vote Vedith if you approve

Sash, make sure you're online before deadline a fair bit please.

[mbaki]

Uh, 99.5%. He is very not good at scum. If y ou haven't played with him before, I get your suspicion, he's scummy without knowing his meta. I think my first game with him is the one and only time I've ever lynched town!him.

[mbaki]

If he's scum, it's most likely with Vedith.

Agree.

Mbaki Sash Creature should be fine.

I approve of this

[mbaki]

Oops

their play isn't scummy

Is it townie though?

yes

[mbaki]

Yes

I scum read him in that game. I even have proof, See: dead thread. I gave nsg my reads and then joined. I spec a lot of games.

I told you, I've read Creature right with pretty much 100% accuracy. He's town here. No ifs, ands, or bets.

[mbaki]

tttt is town here, creature..

I'm going to have to trust you on this... he is pinging me weird.

That's because TTTT is probably scum, and xwing is either wrong or scum.

[mbaki]

and if it looks like mbaki and creature both survive
make sure there are five survivors
not three

jesus christ no we are not ruining the solve, i knew scum would try something.

we are having 3 survivors.

if you think i'm a team with creature, and others me with vedith, i will put sash in my spot. Then I will flip town, and creature will be confirmed town and will be the solve survivor d2.

you lost. don't be annoying about it.

[mbaki]

TTTT is scum claiming by voting X, regardless of X's alignment. He is doing a last minute deadline push to obfuscate the plan and cause scrambling.

The scum team is TTTT x or TTTT tris, outside shot of TTTT ss but I don't think ss is scum.

We are nomming 3 of myself, sash, vedith, creature. xwing, do not vote. you are not living. you can help pick which of those 3 if you want.

make it the 3 not me if you feel safer! and then tomorrow, creature wins.

this is solved. do not fucking throw.

[mbaki]

Day two will end in 0 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes

i will be asleep so i'm going to say this again.

nom Sash, Vedith, Creature. Creature lives if it goes to d2 and no other discussion should be had. I have a 20 FUCKING GAME streak, there is no questioning that consistency.

@Sash, vote SS. I will vote you after.

@xwing, unvote if you're town, @tttt, unvote but i know you're scum so you're not going to.

[mbaki]

Sash needs to show up before I sleep for that to work. Otherwise, I can't gamble it.

[mbaki]

going to bed in 30

if i do

The vote stays. This push under a day before deadline is not a coincidence, its to cause chaos.

[mbaki]

okay

i am going to bed

the votes stay as is

IF YOU NEED TO NOM ANYONE, DO NOT MAKE IT TTTT. IF I HAVE TO TENSE ANYTHING ITS THIS.

probably shouldn't nom xwing or tris anyways, but xwxing is the townier of the two so its ~ok~

if i'm asleep, i give permission for sash to vote SS over me and kill me on the condition Creature lives tomorrow and TTTT DOES NOT GET VOTED. Tris probably shouldn't get voted.

[mbaki]

VOTE: tris
If mbaki's okay with this he can unvote. If not he can propose something different.

Still don't see TTTT flipping town though so it's probably moot

I think tris tttt is more likely than any other solve

can you unvote please?

[mbaki]

SS, vote Sash, Sssh or somebody else, vote Creature, and I'll unvote and die

[mbaki]

if I unvote Creature dies, Sash or someone else needs to vote Creature first

[mbaki]

well SS also

what is the problem with Vedith me Creature living? you now agree with me tttt is a wolf and we clearly arent partners, and even if we were creature lives d2 not me. o.o

[mbaki]

we clearly arent partners, and even if we were creature lives d2 not me.

lol
if you two are partners with only three players left
the game is over

WE as in me and TTTT

stop talking you're outed and jts annoying

thanks

[mbaki]

If 2 Scum go through and 2 town go through don't we still lose the same as 2 Scum and 1 town?

yea but tttt is scum so that's not happening rn

[mbaki]

@Vedith
yes
which is why I said 5 go through is they insist on mbaki & creature both surviving

in other news
let's send my partnee through and not do the optimal strat

[mbaki]

you are wrong.

[mbaki]

vedith can you vote Creature please?

I'll unvote now

[mbaki]

@Vedith
yes
which is why I said 5 go through is they insist on mbaki & creature both surviving

in other news
let's send my partnee through and not do the optimal strat

I want three
have always wanted three

you say differently in a post quoted here l o l

[mbaki]

I don't understand the plan to send me creature and mbaki?
If we're giving Creature the last living point then why not just send him alone now?

Personally I think having 7 go through
Then 5
Then 3
Then 1 is the better play.

But this game was apparently already solved?

scum get a day kill if they both die in 1 day now to amend the breaking strat

[mbaki]

UNVOTE:

[mbaki]

vote count 2.07

Day 2, Vote Count 7

Sashaddin

(0) :

TTTT

(0) :

Tris

(1) :

Vedith

(1) :TTTT

mbaki

(1) : Sashaddin

Creature

(1) : Vedith

Xwing

(1) : Something_Smart

Something_Smart

(2) : Creature

Not voting:

(3): xwing, Tris

With 8 alive, each player can have at most 3 votes.

At this time, if the day ends, Creature, Vedith, Something_Smart and mbaki survives.

Day two will end in (expired on 2019-03-27 17:30:00)

Edited the vote count in the quote above.

So right now, Creature, Vedith, SS survive.

I would rather SS vote Sash over xwing here. Other than that, we're done.

[mbaki]

That's a point.
If Scum don't get through, what's to stop a constant reset?

The mod will intervene if they're delaying needlessly for 4 hours for days I'm sure...

[mbaki]

I would rather SS vote Sash over xwing here. Other than that, we're done.

I guess it doesn't matter

I would actually rather the surviving group is Creature Vedith Sash, not SS. But I don't care enough to argue that.

Let me say this again

Creature lives day 2. Do NOT FUCKING get paranoid. That makes the game auto. I will die today, and flip town, and you will sheep that.

[mbaki]

Creature vote Sash

[mbaki]

If I vote Sash then he'll also survive. If he unvotes then I can but that seems like a waste of time. Obviously if xwing scumclaims by voting then I'll get off them.

Creature can switch to sash, and when he does (not before in case he disappears) unvote. Bam.

[mbaki]

Sashaddin (0) :
TTTT (0) :
Tris (1) :
Vedith (1) :TTTT
mbaki (1) : Sashaddin
Creature (1) : Vedith
Xwing (1) : Something_Smart
Something_Smart (2) : Creature

uh so

Creature vote Sash, SS unvote

that gives us uh

TTTT -> Vedith
Vedith -> Creature
Creature -> Sash
Sash -> mbaki


Actually, SS, you should vote Vedith in case TTTT unvotes. Just because why not. Other than that, this is a good solve.

[mbaki]

SS vote Vedith here

and bam, I die, this game is over. gg scum team whatever amalgamation of TTTT >>>> tris > xwing > ss you are

[mbaki]

i feel like a dick for playing this strongarmy

[mbaki]

Don't. TTTT is succeeding in convincing town to not let you survive apparently.

If I cared, I could definitely fight it. I don't think a single townie has actually suggested I should die here, just TTTT.

But I am confident in my solve so I don't care. I will die. Its the simplest solution.

[mbaki]

anybody moving votes now is scum claiming, for any reason.

[mbaki]

hey tttt man if i'm wrong you can have a metaphorical cake

[mbaki]

lock?

[mbaki]

i don't think quick killing is suboptimal necessarily, though the kill choice was.

gg

[mbaki]

I'm not very good at setup designing, and will try harder.

you designed a setup that made me in because i thought it sounded cool, not because of the playerlist

that is very rare, please don't bash yourself because a somewhat but not even super breaking strategy came out - identifying 3 town in a 9p game with scum interference isn't a particularly easy task.