Micro 878: Chain of Command [Game Over]

[Michael Scott]

Yo, Auro head checking in. I was the potential third head Liz mentioned in the sign-ups.
I won't be posting in the thread, I'll be discussing with Volxen though.

-Auro

[Michael Scott]

Hmm on second thought I'll post, but only GIFs

-Auro

[Michael Scott]

[Michael Scott]

Ok

Spoiler: Fullclaim

[Michael Scott]

[Michael Scott]

I'm listening

[Michael Scott]

I declare intent to lynch Machae Scott

Claim in your next post or I am hammering you.

We know we weren't at L-1 at the time that you posted this, and we know that your hammer is fake. Why are you trying to fish out our role at this point? You already know we have claimed PR Lieutenant. Why are you trying to get us to claim which specific PR we are when there are several days left to the deadline? It's especially suspect of you to do that considering that B&W recently said that our wagon should be derailed (737).

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

did you replace just one head

Yes. I am the Jack head from Liz and Jack.

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

It's especially suspect of you to do that considering that B&W recently said that our wagon should be derailed (737).

Why does this matter?

-Blake

If Voted is scum and he sees that our wagon is falling apart, it's better for him to try and get a fullclaim out of us before someone else gets wagoned. Especially since town!Voted did a "hammer test" on Zeebu in the first CoC game, it makes sense that scum!Voted would try to mimic his play from that game by fake intenting/hammering us, and then when he gets called out on it he just falls back on his play from the first game to defend himself.

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

Auro hasn't said he's paranoid about me yet, therefore he is confscum.

[Michael Scott]

Actually after discussing this with Auro, it seems unlikely that scum!Voted would try to rolefish us via fake intent/hammer as he already knows that we are both a PR and the Lieutenant, and finding out which specific PR we are is of minimal value to scum!Voted compared to the scrutiny he potentially subjects himself to for rolefishing.

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

How are you so informed?
In 3 hours you read this AND last game?

I am the Jack head from Liz and Jack. I've been in this game all along and I was also in the first CoC game. Auro was following this game on-and-off before he replaced in. He was also the Terk head from the Terk and Tantor hydra in the first CoC game.

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

Auro was following this game on-and-off before he replaced in.

Has he also a read on who is scum team based on interactions between these scums?

Auro said he thought that Liz and I along with Aubrey were the scumteam prior to his replace in, now he's reading the game again to re-evaluate everyone.

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

Ico ill give you a kiss if you vote lizz n jacks slot

Lets lynch them both

[Michael Scott]

l&j - scum. i dont like the claim. i believe that you are a power role and lieutenant, but not that youre town. i think your PR is of the variety that would be very beneficial to scum at some point to disobey. i think youre setting yourself up to disobey and draw out a claim on later days.

So just to be clear, you are scumreading our slot specifically because of the fact that we claimed PR Lieutenant at L-2? You seem to be scumreading us based on the notion that we would want to prematurely get our claim out there… because that somehow makes it easier for scum!us to justify disobeying the Captain’s orders at some future point in the game. If we are scum, how does us claiming PR Lieutenant on day one make it any easier for us to “get away” with disobeying the Captain’s orders? Suppose we are scum, and after claiming PR Lieutenant today, we disobey the Captain’s orders as you are suggesting. Suppose the Captain is town, and the Captain makes a fullclaim later in the game and reveals that PR x (our slot) disobeyed orders, and then the Captain gets nightkilled and all of this becomes confirmed information. How does the fact that we claimed at L-2 on day one, as opposed to claiming at a later point in the game, make it any easier for us to justify disobeying the Captain’s orders? We still would come under scrutiny for disobeying orders in most cases regardless of which PR we are, especially if the Captain becomes confirmed town. The major exception to this would be if we are the poisoner and the Captain ordered us to self-target – obviously in that case, we would have a good reason for disobeying. In almost all other scenarios we would come under a lot of scrutiny for disobeying orders. Regardless of our alignment, it makes sense for us to just obey the Captain’s orders in the vast majority of cases. The fact that we claimed at L-2 on day one doesn’t change this.

Also, how does scum!us use the fact that we have already claimed to draw out a claim from someone else on a later day? You said yourself that you believe that we are both a PR and the Lieutenant. If we are a scum PR Lieutenant, then it’s very likely that we would hardclaim the PR that we actually are, as opposed to fakeclaiming another PR. And if we claim the PR that we actually are, we are obviously not going to be CC’d.

You also aren’t taking into account the obvious downside for scum!us to hard claim PR Lieutenant on day one: explaining how we are continuously avoiding the nightkill. Scum!us could try to make arguments along the lines of “perhaps the command structure isn’t all-town so scum isn’t prioritizing killing command ranks” and/or “scum is keeping us alive to save us for a mislynch”. But it’s better for scum!us to avoid scrutiny on this front all-together and not have to explain why we aren’t getting nightkilled, and it’s much easier for us to do that if nothing has been revealed about our role and rank.

There are no benefits to us claiming prematurely regardless of our alignment. Scumreading us based on this alone makes no sense. Do you have any other thoughts about our slot aside from our claim?

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

Zeebu sucks as town, does practically nothing and is hopeless. As scum he posts lots of reads and pushes people.
In this game, which of these two personalities is he closer?

This isn't really a compelling argument -- you're essentially saying that Zeebu has done very little in some of his past town games, so if he is doing very little here that in-and-of-itself must mean that he is town. Even if he typically does more in his scum games, I think you would agree that "doing very little" is easy to emulate as scum, yes? And in any case, he has posted reads (640) and he is pushing our slot. Are you still townreading Zeebu based on the reasons that you listed here?

- Volxen