Micro 881_Tourist Trap | GAME OVER

[Bows and Bells]

MaryJoLisa

: Do you feel like you'll do better in this game, after completing micro 875? And do you have more experience with this setup than that game?

This setup is similar to 875 in that it's semi-open game. Each time I play the game (in any setup), I gain experience and exposure to new things. If I can do as well in this game as I did in 875, I'll be very happy. I was on the winning team there after all.

Not BP

--MJL (Bells)

[Bows and Bells]

I am RadiantCowbells. Please don't ask for an autograph, I'm not signing any photos.

Can you sign a photo of RAS?

I would be so incredibly hurt if RC was in any way qualified to sign his name as RAS.

-MJL

[Bows and Bells]

B&B you have 48 hours to submit your pinkies or you will be subject to the full extent of my wrath.

On behalf of Bows, we submit our pinkies to you without reservation. They are yours, and we ask in kind for the pinkies of the RadiantTroubadour party as well.

[Bows and Bells]

That was about MJL, btw.

I must teach my hydra partner through effective leadership. When RC requests your pinkies, you give them. That's it, end of story. RC has never mishandled my pinkies before so I have no reason to believe that he'd mishandle them now.

-MJL (Gonna try to remember to sign my posts)

[Bows and Bells]

Typhon Jam

: What is your stance on signing posts on a hydra account? How do you feel about your first ever game? (according to MaryJoLisa)
~tn5421

You misunderstood her. This is not my first game, in fact, I'm the one who introduced MJL to mafia. I've simply never played on Mafiascum before or the hydra variant.

I'm fine with it.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

I'm getting some people confused. TeamWorldwide, are you guys posting as one voice, or are you breaking up your posts by user? I noticed Osetr signed a post. (BTW, Hi, Osetr!)

What makes you guys so worldwide? I know where Osetr's from, but what time zones are Chemist and Phone in, and are they actively posting?

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Spoiler: not bp claims

Hard claim not BP.

Not BP

I claim not BP.

Not BP

Not BP

I claim not BP

hello, we are not a BP

I do not have a bulletproof vest.

NOT BP

so every slot's claimed not bp, so tracker claims are next. we are not tracker

I'm sorry, but we're going to need more explanation for this request. I do see other players are following along, but I don't yet understand why. You've always done an all-call in the newbie area for one role, but never two.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Hi what’s happening

Warning that I’m probably not going to be doing much this game, will be leaving it to my other heads

-Mist

Who are you, Mist?

[Bows and Bells]

We are not tracker either.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

I just want to enjoy poking Austerity and maybejolisa a little first.

K, but if you poke me, you have to poke Typhon just as hard. We're a matched set.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

I must have missed something. Why would we policy lynch Azorius Senate?

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

I must have missed something. Why would we policy lynch Azorius Senate?

--MJL

we wouldn't.......................................................................

mjl do you have any reads currently? if not, just like general thoughts on happenings?

I do actually have some reads. I've got to do something off the forum first. I'll give a reads list in a few hours.

[Bows and Bells]

Typhon Jam and I just finished catching up and this is what we see so far:

AzoriusSenate:

Scum lean, but maybe they’re being so scummy that they wouldn’t make it this obvious?

TeamWorldwide (Chemist1422 + Osetr + Phone0Ix):

I guess null read. Typhon Jam notices TWW (Osetr) appearing too willing to town read people and he’s not spending time trying to work anyone into a scum slot with the possible exception of Jingle, who he makes a point of calling LAMIST in two different posts.

Austerity

: Null read. Sometimes we think he’s being helpful and other times we think he’s shutting down possible avenues for scum hunting.

Inferno390:

We think town lean. We noticed some NAI interaction between Inferno and Conflict of Interest (tn) that didn’t ping us as anything other than TvT.

RadiantTroubadour (RadiantCowbells + Katyusha):

Town read on the grounds that advancing the all-call for town tracker made sense after Austerity explained it. It seems helpful to town’s agenda.

Conflict of Interest (tn5421 + RedFlavor):

Null read. Nothing really stands out other than the interaction with Inferno, which Typhon Jam and I felt was TvT.

Jingle:

Town lean. Jingle feels loose and relaxed like he’s got nothing to account for. We also noticed that although RC’s all-call felt very towny, not fully breaking it down for us for us to really understand the pros and cons of this move felt opaque to us. Jingle (and Austerity to a lesser extent) broke it down for us so we had the tools to play with more understanding.

Gamma Emerald:

Null. I don’t have experience with this player to draw from and neither Typhon nor I find anything that stands out in his posts as any alignment.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Hi everyone. I'm here for a little bit. Catching up again.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

I must have missed something. Why would we policy lynch Azorius Senate?

--MJL

we wouldn't.......................................................................

mjl do you have any reads currently? if not, just like general thoughts on happenings?

I do actually have some reads. I've got to do something off the forum first. I'll give a reads list in a few hours.

your pop-ups seem very odd but if the reads are actually coming up that's fine

They're "pop-ins" not "pop-ups."

Spoiler:

[Bows and Bells]

Oh, and I apologize about the pop-ins. I'm working with a partner who is unfamiliar with the terrain here so a lot of our game time together is me just showing him the ropes of how MS works as a whole.

[Bows and Bells]

TWW is Team World Wide

Someone tell us what "wig" means.

[Bows and Bells]

I think your reasoning is garbage.

Provide me an alternative wagon of equal or greater value.

My reasoning is not garbage and is instead based on significant experience.

I would probably be willing to wagon anyone who isn't a townread, but my preferred wagons would be Gamma or B&B.

I feel almost flattered to be considered a potential wagon candidate. Thank you!

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Really? Cause this doesn't suggest to me that you prefer any wagon, considering neither of your suspects are being voted and you're not voting anyone.

You are correct. If I had a strong preference for who I wanted lynched, I'd be voting them. That's why I used the terminology "probably willing to wagon" and not "want to lynch."

Unfortunately, there's no way to express a strong preference for who you don't want lynched besides, you know, yelling at people.

All I get from this is that you think not lynching > lynching TWW, which I disagree with fundamentally.

I actually thought it was universally agreed upon that not lynching the first day gives scum the advantage.

But Jingle, where are you seeing that Austerity wants a no lynch?

[Bows and Bells]

But Jingle, where are you seeing that Austerity wants a no lynch?

It's not that he's saying he wants a no lynch, it's that he's doing fuckall to push towards a lynch.

Yeah, but by that metric, Typhon and I are also doing fuckall to push a lynch.

Typhon and I both noticed that sometimes Austerity does seem to be dismissing valid lines of questioning that could lead to good wagons. -And before you ask which lines of questioning, I didn't record that. That observation was made during a real-time conversation. I'll be proactive and visit that again tonight with my partner and we'll let you know what we think.

[Bows and Bells]

Jingle (and Austerity to a lesser extent) broke it down for us so we had the tools to play with more understanding.

No. Good IC =/= town.

I specifically went over with her how this wasn’t a good reason to town read people, so I guess I wasn’t paying very close attention to the reads list she compiled.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

--MJL

Yeah, you better be ashamed!

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

I'm still deciding (and for now, I'll be deciding on behalf of Typhon). I'm combing through the thread right now, and I'm wavering on Austerity, and some of the decisions I made on him were intertwined with my feel about AzoriousSenate. So I'm just trying to give the thread a fresh look. I think I lean lynchbait on Azor right now, but that may change by the end of the day.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Why are you wavering on Austerity? Are there any specific posts that give you pause?

Yeah, I think I mixed up some early posts and thought some of them were replies to different users, so I was reading them out of context.

[Bows and Bells]

Most of them. Austerity often responds to posts without quoting, and some of them are not posted immediately after the post he's responding to and he's not using names to help me follow the conversation.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Wtf is the fruit??

[Bows and Bells]

The fruit was a bait attempt by Katy to try to get Austerity to follow up on her words by voting Gamma.

Of course it was! How could I have missed that?

-- MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Tasty, juicy fruit or nasty, mushy, durian fruit?

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

I wouldn't consider you tempting, you haven't really done anything that pings me as scum.

Azorious and Austere seem like juicier fruit to me.

[Bows and Bells]

Agreed

VOTE: Azorious Senate

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

back with my analyses

bows and bells

there was a bit of unwillingness to claim not BP? nullscum

Can you please show me where we were unwilling to claim not BP?

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

back with my analyses

bows and bells

there was a bit of unwillingness to claim not BP? nullscum

Can you please show me where we were unwilling to claim not BP?

--MJL

Yeah, I don't get that accusation. We claimed not BP on the first page.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

Typhon you wanna make this wagon a thing?

I think Gamma could be scum but I think this is more likely scum reacting to a tvt wagon

You mean shift my vote off Azorious and onto Team World Wide instead?

Only if you wine and dine me first.

[Bows and Bells]

I'd also like to hear people put me with a partner, I don't think I've seen any of that in the evaluations of the game I have read.

Why should I? I think you're scummy and partner hunting rn seems like a distraction.

Your analysis doesn't matter at this point. Regardless of our alignments, we are at ends of a spear against eachother.

His analysis is correct. Why should pairing our scumreads with a potential partner be a requirement for justifying a lynch candidate day one? You're just adding unnecessary hoops to the equation.

[Bows and Bells]

Katy, I'd be amenable to switching my vote to Team World Wide if you can convince me he makes a for a better day one lynch candidate than Azorious.

[Bows and Bells]

I actually think that's a fairly compelling argument you're making for TWW, Katy. His reads have been iffy, I'll give you that, but I do agree that his reaction to the wagons is his worst offense. I would think if you're town, you would want to stick to your scumreads for a lynch candidate. It would be a bit strange to just drop off your top two scumreads because they're already the two biggest wagons and just arbitrarily vote for somebody else. Seems like the kind of thing scum would do since they don't care who gets lynched day one so long as it isn't them.

I'd have to consult with my partner if we were to change our vote, though.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

Azorius is trying to dominate the game by marking themselves as "mayor". I really don't see town motivation in that

i am not taking it literally and he hasnt really done anything that makes me think he's driving the game maliciously? if you're town having control over the gamestate *does* mean town is controlling the gamestate too

Or he's doing what you suggested and taking refuge in audacity.

MJL does seem to think he's off this game compared to the last game she played with him in.

[Bows and Bells]

Or he's doing what you suggested and taking refuge in audacity.

MJL does seem to think he's off this game compared to the last game she played with him in.

i mean sure, but occam rn makes me feel that tww is scum and tww/azorius isnt svs

if theres a strong meta read i'd be glad to take a look but with this specific instance i think being deliberate in playstyle choice could lead to a false positive very easily. especially with a very small sample size

Excellent point, in fact this is pretty much exactly the reason I would give to counter somebody making a similar push for a lynch based on meta analysis.

I've consulted with MJL, and she's greenlighted the switch.

VOTE: TeamWorldWide

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

just woke up and i see 3 votes on me, lol
sure, but the reason i didnt really do anything with 2 of my wagons being my scumreads is because in one game i had the town was split between 2 peeps and one flipped scum and everyone just cleared the other one when he was scum too, so both the leading wagons ended up flipping scum

will respond to the rest of stuff later when im not as sleepy

So you decide ignore them both instead? How does that correct for the type of mistake town made last game?

The correct response is to make sure people don't drop wagon number two off their radar if they are still pinging you as scum the next day phase. How does dropping off both of them advance your strategy in any way?

[Bows and Bells]

also like
tn was super obvtown in our last game
they're mega mega different this game

You're not wrong, but he's also the whole reason I'm here.

I stand by my veto. I shall die alone on this plateau a humble Jingle, knowing that I don't actually have a good reason to oppose this lynch, but choosing to do so anyway because it's a thing I decided like 2 weeks ago and if we can't stand by arbitrary decisions made with no evidence what right have we to call ourselves men?

Now, to Jungle.

Now those are words to live and die by.

I vote Jingle for mayor. Move over, Azorious.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

Crap I thought I was on the hydra account. My bad.

[Bows and Bells]

Really.

Yeah, really. I mean, I'm not scumreading you per se, but your play in buddying me to start a wagon is the type of thing I would consider doing as scum. Unlike everybody else here, I'm not familiar with all your playstyles, but going off what I know I would do as scum, I'm definitely not willing to townread you yet either since I don't want let you to slip through the cracks.

Why is CoI obvscum to you?

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

I will offer you my pinkies as the highest claim of towniness that I can offer in exchange for your support lynching conflict if interest.

Wait, is RC back in?

[Bows and Bells]

Looks like it? I'm town reading the slot either way.

RC, you're town this game, right?

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Damn, gloves are coming off, this should get interesting.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

Ok CoI might be scum here

[Bows and Bells]

Like especially given that it was unclear what thread response was going to be you were discrediting my read on CoI by saying stuff about how I might be pushing this as scum without really giving a read, then when CoI made an awful catch-up and others called him out you quoted gamma in support but then yeah as I said above.

You’re confused, I wasn’t discrediting your read on CoI, I was just pointing out that you buddying me for the TWW wagon was something I would consider doing as scum so I wasn’t willing to townread you for it.

I’m more than willing to put the hammer down on CoI although MJL might need some convincing.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

She greenlit it.

Consider this my official

intent to hammer

Make your final case, Conflict of Interest.

[Bows and Bells]

Oh, wow. I'm going to defer to Typhon for posts for the next few hours, but I just wanted to interject with a quick comment for which I offer no context:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Oh, wow. I'm going to defer to Typhon for posts for the next few hours, but I just wanted to interject with a quick comment for which I offer no context:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

--MJL

Yeah, sure, just make me do all the work again.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

I’m gonna do some crazy here.
VOTE: Jingle
This is where my gut is telling me to vote, and I’m at a loss for anything better to do with my current information. And also Jingle’s ISO seems really... weird? I dunno, it’s a long shot, but it’s better than having no game impact.

Jingle is pinging me hard as well.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

And if he were scum he'd have known that CoI wasn't flipping scum...

Exactly, I also feel like he would have had the most reason of anybody to take out Superfan since he seemed to be expecting RC and Katy to tunnel him. Superfan seems like an odd choice for scum to have taken out unless there was an overriding reason too. Their hard push on CoI could have potentially been used to to scumpaint them for another townie mislynch.

[Bows and Bells]

HURT: Inferno's amazing idea to lynch Jingle
Assume cop didn't what to break the game and investigated Jingle.
2/3 of cop being in game. Noone says anything. Jingle is 2/3 conftown.

I also don't think Jingle would call TI on himself if he were scum. Too risky.
Assume there are 2 goons - jingle has 50% of being cough day 2 in exchange for cop reveal.
Assume there is one roleblocker and one goon. Jingle must be SURE who the cop is in order to do samething he did. Is here un obvious cop?

I also find Jingle very sus, I think he was discussing only mechanics, off-topic, but almost never progressed the game. Nevertheless, because of reasons stated above, I restrained from scumreading him.

-Parasol Slime

This is also something I was mulling over. Scum!Jingle would be making a big risk drawing attention to himself by asking to be investigated. He would know there was either a 50/50 chance or 100% chance of there being a cop depending on the scum role setup. However, he did add the conditional “if CoI flips red” clause to the equation. This could have given the appearance of making a town play while giving himself an out since he knew CoI would flip green. Granted, if there is a cop, they might have decided to investigate Jingle anyway since he drew attention to himself, or they forgot the part where he only requested the investigation if CoI flipped red.

This is my first time playing mafia on this site, so I’m not familiar with all of your playstyles. My question for those who have played with Jingle before is whether scum!Jingle is willing to take these kinds of risks.

[Bows and Bells]

Jingle only called TI on himself after a scum flip, I thought?

Why does this ping me

Is it wrong?

The whole "TI stays silent if they get an inno so we have an inno without outing any PR's" thing doesn't work without a scum flip, because it could be a JK.

Yeah, that plan seems to me like it would be better served in landing scum!Jingle into a comfy spot with towncred than it would be in advancing town’s interests. The risk attached to it is that scum!Jingle could get outed by the cop. The only question I have is whether scum!Jingle has a history of making those kinds of risky plays.

[Bows and Bells]

Yeah, that plan seems to me like it would be better served in landing scum!Jingle into a comfy spot with towncred than it would be in advancing town’s interests. The risk attached to it is that scum!Jingle could get outed by the cop. The only question I have is whether scum!Jingle has a history of making those kinds of risky plays.

I do, but it was irrelevant. The plan was always for investigatives to target as they normally would if there was a townflip, which I thought was tacitly understood.

By "target as they normally would," do you mean investigate you anyway if there was a townflip or investigate who they would have investigated if not you?

[Bows and Bells]

By "target as they normally would," do you mean investigate you anyway if there was a townflip or investigate who they would have investigated if not you?

Investigate as they would have anyway. I'm a decent investigation target, sure, but I wouldn't take it as confirmed that I was investigated.

I don't, which is why I'm not sure why you said my point was "irrelevant." That fits exactly into what I said about how you making the call for the TI on yourself only if CoI flipped red would be a cozy move for you to make as scum. You're just confirming why I'm already scumreading you.

[Bows and Bells]

If CoI flips green, I'm just as much a potential scumfuck as any of you bastards and should probably never be trusted because I'm slippery like a faux.

Indeed.

VOTE: Jingle

[Bows and Bells]

All birds are animals, while not all animals are birds.

You gave me set of seagulls, claiming they are birds.
I said your seagulls are not birds.
You said there is at least one bird in your seagulls.

ALL BIRDS ARE DUCKS

FTFY.

Actually fixed that for you.

[Bows and Bells]

Actually fixed that for you.

But not all ducks are birds?

No, they are gods.

[Bows and Bells]

No, they are gods.

Very Greek, if they are. If you ever want to be truly terrified of tw, google the duck sexual reproductive arms race.

I know all about them nightmare corkscrew dicks already.

[Bows and Bells]

RadiantTroubadour (RadiantCowbells + Katyusha)
Conflict of Interest (tn5421 + RedFlavor)



Gamma Emerald

Inferno390

AzoriusSenate

Bows and Bells (MaryJoLisa + Typhon Jam)
Slimes
Austerity

Updated reads list, with all of the various changes. Spacing intentional.

I would actually agree with putting GE and Inferno as the top two townreads. You’re obviously my top scum pick. I have yet to decide where everybody else fits in.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

You're really good at the game as scum too, to be fair. And given how sheepy people are this game I wouldn't be surprised if scum-you can mislynch CoI and walk away without a scratch.

(...)

I would like to discuss this post. I personally find it scummy, painting Katyusha-slot as possible scum.
Austerity, what was the motivation behind it?
-Parasol Slime

Hard disagree. He laid out one of the main reasons I didn't fully trust RC/Katy myself, being one of the people that was being sheeped by them. In fact, I was really surprised their slot was taken out by scum last night, considering that Katy's push on CoI looked bad once he flipped green and they would have made for tempting lynchbait. That's also why Jingle is pinging my scumradar so hard right now, since he would have had more reason to take out RC/Katy Hydra than anybody else would as scum. Post 1048 lays it out.

Cause RC thinks I'm scum with CoI and is going to tunnel me unless I'm cleared in the case that CoI flips red.

Of course, CoI flipped green, and then the RC/Katy is taken out during the night. Looks pretty damning from my perspective.

[Bows and Bells]

Wait, I just realized I made a mistake in my train of thought. If RC was only going to tunnel if CoI flipped red, then him flipping green would have negated the concern Jingle had for a tunnel attempt.

Still, I don't trust you Jingle. Don't know what else to say, my mind is convinced you're scum.

[Bows and Bells]

Yeah, you know what, now that I realize that my main reason for suspecting Jingle was scum wasn't actually valid upon reflection, I can't really keep my vote on him for any good reason other than the fact that my mind has constructed idea that he's a sneaky mastermind.

UNVOTE:

[Bows and Bells]

Okay then, hit me with your best shot.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

*It's not very effective*

[Bows and Bells]

Neither him nor Gamma Emerald have really explained their reasoning, other than GE saying he can see me being in cahoots with Austerity.

[Bows and Bells]

Because it looked like everyone else on the wagon wasn't serious about it and they jumped ship as soon as it hit L-1. That could indicate distancing, actually.

As for the latter, you have seemed actively nasty in your pushes, whereas B&B hasn't really given me strong vibes either way yet.

Everyone else on the wagon jumped ship when I called them out on their reasons for suspecting me being bullshit.

Incorrect, I jumped ship when I recognized the flaw in my own logic. I still don't trust you enough to townread though.

[Bows and Bells]

If ya'll haven't reread yesterday I would highly recommend it. Interactions are pretty juicy between me and Gamma. If you can eliminate the thought of Gamma + Me on a team then you should be hammering Bows n Bells at the moment. Also I've quoted some of the deputy mayor's scumhunting posts from yesterday to see who they were pushing on other than the lynch. Based on these posts I think we can find scum. Scum was most likely trying to kill the person with the best reads.

If scum was trying to kill the person with the best reads, they clearly made a mistake going after Superfan. They pushed a wagon on a person that was, and I quote, "obvscum," who ended up flipping town. I'm surprised that they were taken out, they could have made for tempting lynchbait on Day 2.

[Bows and Bells]

Hey MaryJoLisa and Typhoon

I've noticed that neither of you really commented meaningfully on my CoI push beyond Typhoon insinuating that I could.be scum pushing a mislynch. You didn't give a read on the slot. Why is that?

And if this was the reason that Superfan decided to scumread me, it's not a good one in hindsight. CoI did end up being a mislynch and I stated that I was weary of sheeping Katy again after she got me to switch my vote onto TWW.

[Bows and Bells]

At this point the only person I'm confidently townreading is Inferno.

Austerity is a nullread. So is Slime Collective at the moment.

Gamma Emerald has dropped in town cred for me now that I'm not so fixated on Jingle. MJL made the point that he hasn't really done anything to advance the game this day phase other than vote for us right out of the gate and justify it by saying he could see us working as a team with Austerity.

I still lean scum on Jingle, he's in a cozy position for scum, but not as strongly as I did before. I also scumread Azorious, although that might just be because I find his playstyle obnoxious.

[Bows and Bells]

If you are going to decide drop that hammer on me, my advice is to push Azorious and Emerald much harder than you guys have been next day phase.

That's all I have to say. I'll leave it up to you all.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

Wait a second, you can't even hammer Slime.

[Bows and Bells]

Whatever, they're my thoughts. Take them or leave them.

[Bows and Bells]

Agreed that they likely aren't working as a team, but they still both need to be pushed.

[Bows and Bells]

Why do either of us need to be pushed. Not really feeling Gamma scum here but granted they have recieved zero pressure today. I'm happy to allow them to live one more day tbh.

Because neither of you have received that much pressure yet. The day one wagons on you two day one were quickly moved onto other people.

[Bows and Bells]

At this point the only person I'm confidently townreading is Inferno.

Austerity is a nullread. So is Slime Collective at the moment.

Gamma Emerald has dropped in town cred for me now that I'm not so fixated on Jingle. MJL made the point that he hasn't really done anything to advance the game this day phase other than vote for us right out of the gate and justify it by saying he could see us working as a team with Austerity.

I still lean scum on Jingle, he's in a cozy position for scum, but not as strongly as I did before. I also scumread Azorious, although that might just be because I find his playstyle obnoxious.

Could you explain your Inferno townread? I feel nothing but fence from them.

He established as early as last day phase that he was picking up scum vibes from Jingle and stuck with it into this day phase (although he has unvoted, though he said he still thinks Jingle should be lynched). I would think scum would try and push for a juicier target than that day one, Jingle didn't really appreciate in scum equity until today. Plus, his fight with CoI struck me as very TvT.

[Bows and Bells]

Part of it is also just gut. He's striking me as town for some reason.

[Bows and Bells]

Slime can't hammer, he's already on the wagon.

[Bows and Bells]

Because I don't see otherwise why Jingle wanted to pass off the hammer to you. The hammer is effectively in his hands unless you guys can convince Inferno or Austerity to vote for me.

[Bows and Bells]

Ah, just saw post 1278

[Bows and Bells]

@Gamma, what exactly is your case on us? I ISOed you and I can't really see what the cause for the vote is, especially given that you didn't TR Azorious or Austerity until after you placed a vote on us. So it just feels like you're backing into a read rather than arriving at a conclusion through any kind of logical process.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

No, we don't have a path to a win drawn up already because we didn't roll scum this game. We have to solve the game like the rest of town.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Why don't you think ANY scum kills the only really active and powerful town voice here?

Because it was an active and powerful town voice that just hard pushed a mislynch.

So... The premise here is that I am the only one who would have killed RC hydra because he pushed a single mislynch.

Let's take a poll of the audience:

Who would have considered shooting RC if they were scum?

I would not have, precisely because they pushed a mislynch so hard day one. I would have kept them as a potential target for scumpainting. I mean yeah, it's an incredibly risky move as scum to push a mislynch like that day one, but I'm told RC is good at this game and knows what he's doing. Was everybody really ready to town confirm them at the end of the dayphase?

I have a different question: who would have considered lynching them this day phase if they had survived the night?

[Bows and Bells]

I would not have, precisely because they pushed a mislynch so hard day one. I would have kept them as a potential target for scumpainting. I mean yeah, it's an incredibly risky move as scum to push a mislynch like that day one, but I'm told RC is good at this game and knows what he's doing. Was everybody really ready to town confirm them at the end of the dayphase?

The premise of "Would you shoot them" presumes that you, as scum, would have knowledge they are town.

If you had been scum last night, would you have shot RC, or at least considered it?

They would have been one of my last choices for a night kill.

-TJ

[Bows and Bells]

intent to hammer B&B

They ignored my reasoning on them despite me quoting it so I have no objections

Just drop it already, I doubt you guys are changing your mind.

Good luck, town.

[Bows and Bells]

Gamma and Azorius Senate are where town should be looking next.

Start with Gamma

for having no stated reason for pushing a wagon on us and for not bothering to ask for a claim with the intent to hammer (cause the claim doesn't matter to him). Next look at Azorius because I wonder if the cockiness isn't just all false bravado.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

In fact, I'll go ahead and put this here for the record.

VOTE: Gamma

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Bows and Bells conceding here as scum. Looking good for town.

We'll see if you're feeling so cocky when town is at MYLO tomorrow.

You're supposed to fight here if you're not scum. You have failed spectacularly at that...

You're the last person I care about meeting the expectations of. At least town has one more day to figure things out without me in the game, hopefully not by taking cues from you.

[Bows and Bells]

TJ out, bring down that hammer already.

[Bows and Bells]

Is that the actual hammer, or the fake hammer?

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

We had Azorius and Slime voting for us, and then Bingle voted for us and now Gamma just voted for us. That looks like the actual hammer.

Oh well.

We were town.

Town, maybe use this time to solve the game until the thread gets locked?

[Bows and Bells]

(Sorry, #1314 was mine)

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

*crickets*

Really? No one wants to discuss with Bows and I about our towniess and who scum might be in light of our impending flip? Not even you, Gamma?

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

What?? We literally don't need to fool you. Why would we even do that? Did I calculate the hammer wrong or something?

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

Scum!Us' efforts to "fool" you in twilight would be thwarted by a red flip. That makes no sense at all.

Yeah, Gamma then Azorius, town.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

How so?

(Gamma first, then Azorius, town.)

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

I don't have to convince you unless we haven't been hammered. I believe we have been hammered (unless I missed an unvote or misunderstood the vote requirements), so the proof will be in the pudding shortly.

What I saw from you was starting a wagon on us for no reason, not stating a good cause for that wagon (Bow said he thought he might have seen a cause, but I didn't see anything compelling at all), then ultimately hammering us without actually requesting our role. It's my position that our role didn't matter to you because a dead townie is a dead townie any which way you slice it or dice it.

--MJL

[Bows and Bells]

1300 has two votes on me and it defines that it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Bows and Bells (2) : AzoriusSenate, Slime Collective
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Later on, Bingle votes for us in 1301 and Gamma declares intent and ultimately hammers the vote in 1312.

That looks like four valid votes to me: Azorius, Slime, Bingle and Gamma. I'm feeling pretty sure we're hammered, so I don't get how the whole "twilight doubt schtick" is buying Gamma or Azorius anything of value. They should be handling this much better if they were town.

--MJL