Micro 905: High Noon (GAME TERMINATED)

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Checking in, will read later.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

nothing else to say about having been dueled?

I literally hadn't noticed, I didn't read any of the thread.
Please vote for no lynch guys, I think this whole thing was just an (admittedly dumb) joke, and this is TvT.
Still, if you want to policy lynch someone for dueling someone who literally hasn't posted yet, I understand.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

also we literally lose a mislynch if we NL, that's never happening. it's you or NM.

Well, I'm not the one who started this debacle, so I guess you should get rid of him.
Since he started this nonsense, I would expect him to be duelled to death next if I lose since I'm going to flip town, he clearly cant be trusted.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Alright, yeah, just vote for NM then, he caused this mess, I'm just a completely innocent bystander.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Fishy Logic is scum

huh

maybe we should duel them then

:thonk:

We can't duel them because I duelled a player at random in the first post of the game

Right here, he admits that it's a completely random choice.
If he's town, he's absurdly aggressive RVS move and he is still acting anti town.
If he's scum, well, he's scum.
Either way, he is the correct target here.
If I die, I fully expect him to be duelled and killed next.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

One last thing, NM, this was pretty bad manners.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

It's possible that correct play is simply to quicklynch NM for it because allowing scum In a good position to force duels with townies to keep weak scum alive increases scum equity a lot

How would scum!NM be in a good position here?

And QC, do you have a read on NM?

-L

I read him as town because this move doesn't make sense for scum. If I lose, he probably gets killed and he just really hurt scum.
It's a very anti town move no matter what.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Has anyone expressed interest in killing him if you flip town?

Where did that idea come from?

If you want him to run around starting duels for memes for the rest of the game, be my guest.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

NM should be dead by now because we don't lose anything if he dies other than a chance to lynch someone who hasn't done anything.
I don't see what scummy things I've done other than...prod dodge at the very beginning of the game? Which I think is pretty fair since you don't exactly know when the timer will start running.
I just used the quick reply at the bottom, I didn't read the thread at all
I guess I can give my reads elsewhere if people want, but I've been preoccupied with this duel. I think that's pretty understandable.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Oh, and NM wants to do some more joke policy lynches. Look out Amrun, there's a duel coming your way soon if NM lives.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Quantifiable Conundrum (L-4)

: noone

Not_Mafia (L-2)

: Fishy Logic, Amrun

RadiantCowbells, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Lovebird, eth0s

I want to lynch Amrun because she's stuck in 2011

Oh, and NM wants to do some more joke policy lynches. Look out Amrun, there's a duel coming your way soon if NM lives.

Why would I try and lynch Amrun when FishyLogic is scum?

Because you just said so.

This is the alternative guys, this guy or me.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I read him as town because this move doesn't make sense for scum. If I lose,

he probably gets killed

and he just really hurt scum.

Doesn't this by same logic mean that that move makes no sense for Town either?

-L

NM should be dead by now because we don't lose anything if he dies other than a chance to lynch someone who hasn't done anything.
I don't see what scummy things I've done other than...prod dodge at the very beginning of the game? Which I think is pretty fair since you don't exactly know when the timer will start running.
I just used the quick reply at the bottom, I didn't read the thread at all
I guess I can give my reads elsewhere if people want, but I've been preoccupied with this duel. I think that's pretty understandable.

What's up with you getting so defensive here? It was said that lynching NM is the correct play but that there's no rush.
And can you answer 128?

-L

Yeah, but I feel like a scum player wouldn't do this since there's a pretty big difference between thoughtlessly doing some sort of super risky strat when there are 7 people vs. 2. If you straight up ruin someone's game like that, that can have some real social repercussions and it is arguably throwing the game. It could lead to future policy lynches. But if there are 7 people and we lose anyway, the responsibility is split amongst us all and there will certainly be other places/people who will make mistakes too.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Quantifiable Conundrum (L-4)

: noone

Not_Mafia (L-2)

: Fishy Logic, Amrun

RadiantCowbells, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Lovebird, eth0s

I want to lynch Amrun because she's stuck in 2011

Oh, and NM wants to do some more joke policy lynches. Look out Amrun, there's a duel coming your way soon if NM lives.

Why would I try and lynch Amrun when FishyLogic is scum?

Because you just said so.

This is the alternative guys, this guy or me.

I said I wanted to, not that I would

So far all you've done is duel someone for no reason whatsoever on a whim, so I'm going to take the liberty of disregarding this defense, and I encourage everyone else to do so too.

actually fishy logic's posting is really bad and consistent with what I know from scum!FF so I'm getting scumpings there, too.

For the record I'm totally cool with policy'ing NM in this duel

Please do so, I would like to actually begin to solve the game, and this duel has just been a giant distraction so far.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I lean Guilty Lion as town due to 172. It has a lot of reasoning and he also argues against claims that my first post was somehow "bad," which is so ridiculous (I've already explained before that I literally did not read a single post in the thread before making it, which is extremely plausible.)

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

@Lovebird, I would like to hear what you think about what's going on. You're lurking.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I lean Guilty Lion as town due to 172. It has a lot of reasoning and he also argues against claims that my first post was somehow "bad," which is so ridiculous (I've already explained before that I literally did not read a single post in the thread before making it, which is extremely plausible.)

Is “a lot of reasoning” = town?

It leans town, yeah.
I'm trying to contribute to the broader game, but I'm a bit preoccupied with the duel.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I lean Guilty Lion as town due to 172. It has a lot of reasoning and he also argues against claims that my first post was somehow "bad," which is so ridiculous (I've already explained before that I literally did not read a single post in the thread before making it, which is extremely plausible.)

Is “a lot of reasoning” = town?

It leans town, yeah.
I'm trying to contribute to the broader game, but I'm a bit preoccupied with the duel.

Do scum not provide reasoning?

Scum tend to provide less, worse, or incorrect reasoning. I'm not seeing any if those here and this is relatively early on, so I find it more meaningful.

I'm trying to contribute to the broader game, but I'm a bit preoccupied with the duel.

Why is the duel stopping you from contributing? The consensus is that NM is going to die here, he's at L-1, and I'm pretty sure he dies first even if you scumclaim here.

-L

I actually have already contributed a bit if you keep reading, but I don't think you can call anything a consensus when less than half of the players seem to agree on it. We don't even have intent to hammer here. I'll be free to disregard the duel once that gets announced.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Nice gambit, but players in a duel cannot vote.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Ethos, RC, help me understand here. Is there some level of drama/bad feelings between you two that predates this game? You don't have to go into detail, but it looks like there's something like that going on and I want to confirm since it looks like some people are voting emotionally.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

RC started game throwing on page 6.
VOTE: RC.
I don't like doing it, but it's half policy lynch (open game throwing) and half my best solve being RC/Lovebird.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

You're welcome to explain it too RC, even just acknowledging my suspicions would go a long way. If I'm right, then I'll unvote amd probably stay out of this duel unless it begins to drag out into our time to debate our lynch.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

You know what? Fuck it. UNVOTE: . You two work it out. This is TvT driven by emotion and I don't want to participate further. I will be willing to hammer tomorrow if we're at an impasse.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

He's a magic pirate

John Titor?

I didn't have anything to say, but now I think ethos is scum

@Lovebird, why did that post from eth0s ping you? I got the opposite impression tbh

I think, his attitude showed he didn't care about solving in his earlier posts.

This is your entire iso. Do you wanna come play the game you signed up to play? It's already in progress, maybe you didn't get the pm, who knows?

Love to know what you are doing and where your head is at.

Highly agreed. FL is sus, but so is Lovebird for lurking. Might be worth throwing a few votes in her direction to get her attention.
Then again, I think she's close to being prodded and replaced, and that slot hasn't been very scummy yet.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I was gonna look through your and mine ISO's and point out some stuff but if you're gonna be acting like that then I'll just chill until some good soul comes along and hammers.

-L

Unless I'm miscounting, ethos is at L-2.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I should have known this setup would just be abused and toxic and it's honestly my bad for joining. I should have known RC would have pulled this shit on me. And believe me, he was going to find a reason no matter the circumstances. Call it AtE if you want but I'm not trying to wiggle out of shit. I WANT to be lynched at this point. It's not fair to sub out and make someone else deal with my slot but I abso-fucking-lutely don't want to play this game anymore so I'll claim scum if it means you people will get this duel over with.

I think the setup is probably good but it should have rules like no duels before post 75 and there must be at least 75 posts between duels.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Oh, you also hadn't answered 289. Would bw lovely to actually hear your thought processes here.

-L

As I've said before, I think this whole duel is purely emotional now instead of being based on any in depth reasoning, so I've shifted off of any assumptions based on it. That could change after a flip.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Also, Lovebird is the other half of my solve because I'm always suspicious of lurkers.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I'm trying to contribute to the broader game, but I'm a bit preoccupied with the duel.

QC, you keep repeating this line but I don't see these contributions to the game. I'm also not sure what about that duel was taking so much of your time to address. You completely ignore the largest broader game related thing going on in RC vs. eth0s until the duel starts and then push RC as a maybe policy lynch?

Can you elaborate on why you're town reading eth0s? Also, why weren't you interested in why eth0s suddenly started hard town reading you in #225?

You must be pretty far behind on your reading, because I've stuck to my word and contributed since then.

If you don't see why it might occupy a lot of your time, I invite you to jump directly into a situation where it's you vs. another TR player and you're at L-3 from the beginning of the game. You will suddenly have a new perspective on things.

I think that his back and forth with RC looks townish.
I don't care about that post. I don't see why someone having a slight TR on me (which he clarifies later, which makes me think you're super behind on the game,) is something that deserves a reaction.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I intend to hammer eth0s but I'd like to make QC take some hard stances first

I agree with this sentiment.

You know what? Fuck it. UNVOTE: . You two work it out. This is TvT driven by emotion and I don't want to participate further. I will be willing to hammer tomorrow if we're at an impasse.

This post is icky as fuck. "This is tvt but I'll hammer whoever while extracting myself from any discussion that might lock me into certain reads that I can't easily shake later on. Yeah, I'll give no indication of where my head is at an just say I'll hammer when it comes to that and no one will suspect me... That'll get them on my side."

I don't give a fuck about this duel because it's emotionally driven TvT, and taking a hard stance for either side will look bad, since I'm confident in my TvT read. As far as I'm concerned, ending this charade is a service to town because then we can move on to discussing our lynch since there are no more duels allowed in D1.
There's two reads for you: they're both town. I've also said I TR GL. Lovebird is SL since I find lurking inherently suspicious. Everyone else is null.
There, you can now no longer make this argument.
.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Oh, you also hadn't answered 289. Would bw lovely to actually hear your thought processes here.

-L

As I've said before, I think this whole duel is purely emotional now instead of being based on any in depth reasoning, so I've shifted off of any assumptions based on it. That could change after a flip.

I don't really understand your answer here or your 299. Why would you stay out of a duel? What if RC is town and emotional about being shaded but it turns out eth0s is still scum regardless? And why do you dismiss "in depth reasoning" when RC did give several explicit reasons as to why he was dueling eth0s?

and if it's legit TvT shouldn't you be trying to figure out how scum is going to navigate it? I don't understand what's motivating you to excuse yourself from participating

I never said I'm not watching. Scum navigates this duel by keeping a low profile. It's a giant distraction that wastes our debate time.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

And in regards to what you said on me sorting QC: at the risk of digging myself into a hole I would like to clarify that I don't TR qc. Yes I do TL him but in no way did I mean to imply that I have a confident read on his alignment.

Quantifiable Conundrum (L-4)

: noone

Not_Mafia (L-1)

: Fishy Logic, Amrun, eth0s

RadiantCowbells, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Lovebir

Okay I'm hard town reading qc now.

VOTE: not_mafia

Actually, eth0s goes from town leaning you to hard town reading you.

Are you caught up on reading?

Oh, you meant that?
Yeah, I didn't react at the time and I won't now. That's not abnormal. Most people don't really react to TR's on themselves. Not sure what you're trying to get at with this.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I don't care about that post. I don't see why someone having a slight TR on me (

which he clarifies later,

which makes me think you're super behind on the game

Where did this exactly happen? And he was hard TRing you.

And I was saying that you first indirectly called RC scum (by him being a part of your best solve) and gamethrowing, refused to explain either, then got to "emotional charged TvT" without explaing what exactly changed your mind there either.

-L

It happened in 289 IIRC. He later flipped back to a hard read, but I'm not reading much into it, since I think it was just a way to encourage people to end the first duel (there, you got a reaction Dannflor.)
I stand by my assertion that this duel is anti town, and that he is probably town, which does make it game throwing. I initially thought that he must be scum because he started a duel against another player that I think is town.
My move back to where I am now came from me rereading their interactions. My attention was focused elsewhere.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Waiting for a flip before I post anything else

Don't speedvote. It's time to slow down

Agreed. There's no more use in bickering, we're about to get some great info.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I believe Lovebird is overdue for a prod, and I think she will run out the 24 hour force replace timer sometime today.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

VOTE: Lovebird
Stop lurking.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I think lurking is inherently scummy, that deserves discussion and I'm getting the vote started. However, my vote is not "sitting" anywhere. I'm willing to move it if appropriate. It doesn't look great that you're already throwing shade by claiming that I'm doing that.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I'll try to answer more questions/provide more content tomorrow evening. It's been a long day for me.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Radiant Cowbells (L-4)

: noone

eth0s (L-3)

: GuiltyLion

Amrun, Dannflor, Lovebird, Fishy Logic, Quantifiable Conundrum

Can two duels even happen simultaneously? This is getting out of hand. At least this duel is pretty good.

Scummy post from amrun

In what way?

It's an empty comment.

Sure it is. It does at least state that the duel contains a scumread for me. It’s less empty than 90% of your ISO. I have plenty of content. This is a stretch.

I think she's claiming that she was prod dodging.

I think it's GL Lovebird

LB is in there for sure, she only became active once the TvT duels that she knew were TvT were over, then suddenly we get this deluge of content. She has no meaningful posts before then.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Lovebird, how does my posting in previous games differ? Keep in mind that you only have two newbie games to go on, but in this game it's been a wild ride for me since the beginning. You're going off of a very limited data set.
Also, LB, where were you during the first two duels. You didn't really do anything except for prod dodge. You didn't go v/la, so what's up and why should we not find that suspicious? The fact that you haven't even bothered to deny that you've been lurking is the most suspicious thing.
My solve is LB/?

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Eth0s lynch puts me on super shaky ground

I will almost certainly die tomorrow if we do not get scum today

I think that duel was extremely ill-advised, but I think you're far more likely to get NK than duelled because by my count you are nearly universally TR.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Just to make it explicit: I TR RC and TL FL.
GL is back to null, he's been lurking too much.
LB is scum.
All others null.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Quantifiable Conundrum (L-2)

: Amrun, Fishy Logic

Lovebird (L-3)

: Quantifiable Conundrum

RadiantCowbells, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Lovebird

Why no mention of me Lovebird

IDK what to think about you.

^ scum scum scum scum scuuuuum

Care to elaborate? Not Mafia's posts looked like this too and we all know how much good he did for town.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Don't bullshit us. You had no meaningful posts for the first several days of the game. You simply didn't interact with anybody at all outside of the bare minimum of one line posts to avoid getting prodded. Anyone who reads your iso can see it and a lot of people have remarked on it.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

You had no meaningful posts for the first several days of the game.

You mean, the first two?

48 hours with no real content is still lurking.
Try to rationalize it away all you want, we all saw it and we're all aware. Seemingly the only thing you can be bothered to do is defend yourself, you don't even try to solve when you're not under attack.
You lurked. It's a fact. I dont have anything more to say on this topic for now.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I think GL going from "QC is newb scum if scum" to town reading QC to wanting to lynch QC today

is very partnery

In my previous 2 games, people have accused me if being newb scum.
Both times they were wrong. This is a pattern. My town play just looks like that I guess.
I would love to hear what makes it look that way. Maybe I'll turn out to be a great scum player who always looks town by accident?

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I lean Guilty Lion as town due to 172. It has a lot of reasoning and he also argues against claims that my first post was somehow "bad," which is so ridiculous (I've already explained before that I literally did not read a single post in the thread before making it, which is extremely plausible.)

Put yourself in my shoes man, I wanted any lifeline I could get.
This is also pretty bad tbh

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Ooops that post came out wrong. Wish this site had a WYSIWYG editor.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I feel frozen here, but I do think that RC has been a bit too solvy in this game to be scum.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't play games with funky mechanics that take away from legit scum hunting. If the first duels were tvt then scum has a legit way to stay out of it all, and then we go into a lynch where we are starting over with info that may or may not be useful to go off of.

I'm confident that the first two duels were TvT. Of course, I'm biased on one of them.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

QC, who is scum besides Lovebird?

I'd say either Amrun or GL are the most likely.

Does QC even have real scumread? Don't think so.

I strongly SR you and I've backed up the logic behind it. We've been over this.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Quantifiable Conundrum (L-2)

: Amrun, GuiltyLion

Lovebird (L-2)

: Quantifiable Conundrum, Radiant Cowbells

Guilty Lion(L-3)

: Fishy Logic

Dannflor, Lovebird

Lol, what's the logic? I'm not here for two days? I'm soooooo scummy

You had no meaningful posts for the first several days of the game.

You mean, the first two?

48 hours with no real content is still lurking.
Try to rationalize it away all you want, we all saw it and we're all aware. Seemingly the only thing you can be bothered to do is defend yourself, you don't even try to solve when you're not under attack.
You lurked. It's a fact. I dont have anything more to say on this topic for now.

Guys, this is his logic for me scum.

It's damn good logic too. You kept a low profile while town were at each other's throats instead of trying to do anything productive. Very scummy.

Subject: Newbie 1957 - Game Over

@QC - How are you looking at this thread and getting me as the antagonistic one and ceejay as being particularly victimised? I just don't see it. And are you answering my question/asking your own on Ceejays RVS wagon for when I asked or as it stands now, cos literally no one is voting there any more? Also you still haven't answered Xea's (and now Ceejay's) question about why you ignored Sus's response to Spam. You got a reaction from me, how you read it?

@Sus - Any particular reason you are defending me? I'm starting to feel like you want to pocket me... Also, it sounds like you have scummier reads than Accessinator, any reason you chose a pressure vote for activity over persuing a scum read? Any reason you chose Accessinator over Spam? They are both low activity and Spam has done even less to explain his position.

@Both of you - Gun to your head, who is scum? Why? And why aren't you voting for them?

You can easily see how someone might see you as antagonistic within this one post. Forget the tons of accusations you've made on very little evidence, forget your habit of demanding that people answer questions that some third party kinda hinted at, and we can even forget that a tiny little joke at your expense seems to have sent you up a wall, just look at this right here:

Gun to your head

It is day 1. There are no wagons above L-3. There have been 0 flips. This is aggressive.
I also don't like the essentially zero content that EspeciallyTheLies has posted, but, based on the timeline he gave us, I suspect that he'll be getting replaced out. If he doesn't enter the game with some actual content, then I'd suggest that he might be a relatively safe lynch since a silent townie isn't useful for too much, and laying low as scum is a good thing.

I think you're also looking for my response to sus's #46? I didn't think that was a serious question, I thought it was pretty clear that it wasn't exactly a super thoughtful vote. Nobody had much of anything to go on, so I jumped on a vote to see where things went.

And if you have any more questions that you're just dying to know the answer to, please either reask them or quote them at me, I've legitimately tried to answer everything that I've seen asked of me and at this point if I haven't it's because I've missed it.

As for my current reads:

Null

EspeciallyTheLies - No real content.
Nezahaulpilli - Moderately town leaning just for calling out Xeogarius in 84. In fact, 84 is a pretty great post all around.
Suspicious - Post 48, while old, is good, it's breaking up a potential quicklynch, but it's very minor. He's defending me a bit too hard too in 92, 93, and 94, which looks a little bit like buddying.
Accessinator - One good post 91. Insufficient content so far. If this pattern continues, I will get more suspicious.
Cee - Nada
EspeciallyTheLies - 1 post. he's probably going to get replaced out.

Town

Mizzytastic - town, but overconfident town, which can be dangerous in its own way. It seems like it's pretty uncontroversial that he's town at this point, I haven't seen anyone contradict that, and he's clearly very interested in solving this.

Scum

NotMySpamAccount - Horrible post #22, goes from a random vote to a real one on the same guy based on essentially nothing. #72 seems like he's trying to discredit someone (although I could be reading more malice into that post than intended,) he has three more throwaway posts, and finally his #96 is very weak and doesn't contain much reasoning. Still only scum leaning though, since absent a slip up, I don't think we're going to have the data to be certain someone is scum on day 1. I am less confident about this one, and may swap him out with Accessinator.
Xeogarius - 99 is weird. It's weird to have such a strong read on Access this early on, and it seems like scum might try to deflect onto a relatively safe player. He's also very defensive in 58, and seems to be the most anti-mizzy player here overall, and as I've said before, I think Mizzy is the most widely agreed upon town.

VOTE: Xeogarius sheeping Mizzy and he hasn't felt any real pressure yet. I would like to see what happens when that changes.
I might change to Accessinator if we don't get some more content. It feels like he's trying to skate by under the radar.

He posts like this in his newbie game. Wtf? He's obviously scum this game.

Thanks for posting this actually. Check out some of the massive similarities between that game (where I was town) and this game: I'm suspicious of lurkers, and I spend a lot of time convincing people who I think are overzealous town to cool down. In this game I'm pushing a lynch on someone who was lurking and I spent the entire 2nd duel bemoaning that it was obviously TvT and based on insufficient evidence. Sound familiar?
Of course, this post is out of context anyway, since the reason why it was so long was because that's what I thought people wanted to see: these big huge walls. I've learned a bit now.
If you look early on in that game though, there were a lot of read lists being traded back and forth for a while, which makes up the bulk of the post's vertical length (excluding the quotes.)
Also, yeah, I got asked a lot of questions and I answered them. I've done the same here. You've been awfully unwilling to answer for what you've been up to this game though. All you've really done is defend yourself when the duels finally ended and people could actually take a minute to make these calls.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I will vote anyone who speed duels.
Also, fuck, I legit can't believe LB wasn't scum.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

Well, RC not being NK has changed my position on everything. I almost feel lime putting everyone down as null again.

[Quantifiable Conundrum]

I still can't believe LB wasn't scum.
Sorry LB.