Micro 927: Hectic's Ultimate Conspiracy (FIN)

[clidd]

Im with Datisi and Kanna.

[clidd]

If the selection of roles were not random, I have a hunch about Hectic's selective reasoning.

[clidd]

I imagine 8 ~ 9 possible scenarios, and I believe that I can reduce this number with our interactions.

[clidd]

Waiting for opinions on my theory.

[clidd]

My theory is that he sought to balance the scum alignment by adding a player, theoretically, more experienced with an intermediate / weak player.

So Ame immediately came to mind. I was in a scum game of Hectic (which he won), where only Ame had an SR on him, while the rest of the players had him as a TR. I believe that this event changed Hectic's perspective on Ame and, as a result, selected her to be a scum in this game. Part of it was balancing, because he knows she is good, and the other part is curiosity, because he never saw scum!Ame before.

[clidd]

This game: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82022&start=1750

[clidd]

Well.

[clidd]

I thought that because there were few players, there would be more flexibility.

[clidd]

Forget what I said then.

[clidd]

So what now ?

[clidd]

I think I'm getting used to making theories out of context.

[clidd]

[clidd]

No, im town. But you might be scum due to the overreaction.

[clidd]

Actually, no

My theory is based on the premise that you are scum due to balance and it seems that I am correct in that. You waited for me to totally disregard the theory in order to attack me, without giving a previous explanation.

[clidd]

No, im town. But you might be scum due to the overreaction.

This response was too slow. You had to think of how you wanted to respond.

I'm certain you're scum.

daTZ/Kanna make the move and let's win this page 2

This is a lie, Ame. This opportunism will not be fruitful.

[clidd]

Also would like to do another round after if that's possible?

Sure, but im trying to understand what the heck are you doing.

[clidd]

I can see that reasoning coming from town! Ame and scum!Ame, but you're completely wrong about me. It seemed to me very biased the way you positioned yourself when I admitted that my theory was out of context.

For a moment, I considered that I had caught you, especially for the overreaction, so I sent the gif. It doesn’t make sense for the scum!Clidd scenario to attract so much attention with a theory that could be proved wrong later, and the fact that you pulled that out directly, without considering the possibility that it was a genuine mistake, is a main factor that I rate as indicative scum.

[clidd]

Your first commentary on the game was a de-characterization of what we had talked about, as if we hadn't tried to add anything to the game.

[clidd]

The fact that you suggested Kanna as partner says unconsciously that the reasoning you thought is something that came from your own experience, that is,

Kanna is your partner

.

[clidd]

I assume Datisi is neighbor PR, so he might selfvote and we win, as you and Kanna are probably scum.

[clidd]

Partners have to be in the same neighborhood.

??

[clidd]

One neighborhood consisting of 3 VTs
One neighborhood consisting of 1 VT and 2 Mafia

I believe I read something else when I entered the topic of the game queue.

[clidd]

Aren't special roles that can use self-vote ? Or any town ?

[clidd]

Ok, now it's clearer.

[clidd]

I still don't understand fully your case on me, but I'm feeling that you are town.

[clidd]

I was going to say 8, 10 maybe.

[clidd]

Well, nevermind.

[clidd]

The fact is that only the two of us are debating here. Due to the lack of intervention on your side, you are unlikely to be scum at that point.

[clidd]

Yes, im confident on this.

[clidd]

How do you feel about Datisi/Chemist ?

[clidd]

Hey, Ame.

[clidd]

I just wanted to say that I really enjoy playing with you, regardless of the peculiarities of one game to the other.

[clidd]

Well, now back to the game.

[clidd]

I found the quick way he posted it as a sign of excitement, something I consider one of the elements of a town mentality. So I have a TL on him.

[clidd]

Datisi, however, I consider null. I feel that his engagement with me and the Chemist was not natural.

[clidd]

VOTE: Clidd

My hood is the town hood. Whoever is town in the other should selfvote.

???

This makes me want to self vote

Look at the development after that. I believe it is evident that she was looking for a reaction. She is town.

[clidd]

The fact is that only the two of us are debating here.

Due to the lack of intervention on your side

, you are unlikely to be scum at that point.

What does the bolded mean?

Also, I posted fairly quickly after the game started as well. How come you don't have the same conclusion about it as you do with Chemist's posting?

1.

If she were scum, her partner would suddenly appear during our debate to offer argumentative support to her.

2.

There was a delay of 23 minutes for you to interact after Chemist and I posted, so my conclusion about you is different.

[clidd]

VOTE: Clidd

My hood is the town hood. Whoever is town in the other should selfvote.

???

This makes me want to self vote

And looking back at it, I find it very strange that Dsj did not question me.

He ignored the entire progression of the discussion and selected that post, out of context. Town!Dsj was very inquisitive during the lylo against Hectic, and it seems that this feature has been erased here.

[clidd]

The partner could further strengthen the push on me by pressing a self-vote more quickly.

Which means:

Ame + Chemist> unlikely, as Chemist was online and did not interfere.
Ame + Dsj> unlikely, as his first post would not make sense to question his own partner (75)

[clidd]

Yes, it seemed plausible to me.

[clidd]

I would totally dodge an argument if I thought my partner could handle it

What would you do if your partner tried to frame the only town in your hood, hypothetically ?

[clidd]

I think the hoods can be useful because it provides mafia an additional way to operate, which means an additional opportunity for catching them. Dsj has been scummy in mine.

I sympathize with this perception.

Clidd have you seen Death Note?

dsj you've yet to refute any of my points.

And you tried to pocket me by agreeing with a clidd-kanna team

Also chem has completely stayed out of it

Unless either of you can convince me otherwise within the next dozen posts I'm going to make like Voltorb and self destruct

There's rocks are tripping me out maaan

12

I've been thinking about Datisi + Kanna, but with Kanna AFK and Datisi showing a genuine questioning attitude, it is very unlikely that both are scums. By PoE, Chemist + Dsj is the most likely pair.
Partly due to the Dsj's impartial pov, which has biased characteristics, and partly due to the lack of expressive Chemist engagement. Unless there is a hidden theater between Ame and Dsj.

[clidd]

I just wanted to say that I really enjoy playing with you, regardless of the peculiarities of one game to the other.

Here I tried to say that I like to play with you regardless of my role, Ame.

[clidd]

It's ok to me.

[clidd]

Ame, you lost using this method in the other round. Why are you repeating ?

[clidd]

Reset.

I'll be straight to the point: I believe Kanna is scum considering she was AFK as town and had an overreaction at the beginning of this round.

[clidd]

I wanted to check to what extent this emotional read is correct.

[clidd]

Sup fuckers I'm town this time

Haha we got him again clidd

Actually, nevermind. This reaction is enough for me to believe that he is also town, so our entire hood is automatically town.

Regardless of whether my read is correct or not on Kanna, there are 2 scums on your hood.

Game solved.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Town on Ame's hood might self if she's bluffing at this gambit.

[clidd]

Well there is the potential that Datisi dramatically altered his meta for the sake of contrast.

4

What do you think of this Clidd.

I had a very similar thought wrt Kanna being scum this game. Either I'm right, and you self-vote to a win, you don't self vote because you're scum with her at which point you're outed, or my hood is scum in which case I trust you to figure it out.

For what reason do you place this trust? Especially considering there has not been enough content to read you with precision.

Furthermore, why are you not considering the possibility that I am scum with Chemist?

Scum win this game by pushing a player of the opposing neighborhood as they need one of the members there to self vote. dsj and I both should have taken this as a town tell on each other in the previous game (the fact that we were pushing each other, members of the same hood).

The fact that you and Clidd are both pushing for a Kanna lynch so early is suspicious. And it looks like Clidd is goading the other members of my hood to do the vote if I don't follow through.

Play to Ame's read on Kanna and play to Kanna's and Chem's paranoia on Ame's countdown.

2

183--> Possible, but Kanna is scummier. I only need to know 1 scum in a hood to know that it is scum sided.

[clidd]

Datisi is unlikely to be scum again with the kind of reaction I mentioned.

Not to mention the development I noticed on our hood. He is more active than usual, something totally contrary to the last round.

[clidd]

And if he were to actually choose to change his meta, it would not be so drastic, as it would bring suspicion.

He would clearly perform in a more subtle way, with small/medium changes to appear to be within the ''profile'' that we expect from him as a player.

The sudden appearance we saw doesn't fit that.

[clidd]

Ame, listen:

im town, Kanna acted scummy and your read was identical to my read on her, so it was not malicious reasoning at all.

The fact that Datisi was acting extremely different confused me, so I thought he was town. Now I see that I am wrong, but I am STILL

TOWN

. It was also weird your insistence on such mechanic of selfvote for time, so it was not my fault the lack of precision in my reads in this game.

I always do my best based on the available impressions and you know it. You three MIGHT pick me, I am the only town in thiS hood and I acted entirely with a good intention to solve the game.

[clidd]

I am aware that I have damaged your view of me, but try to understand what I'm saying. Datisi and I were partners in the previous round and I noticed the way he plays. I also considered that it would change if he flip scum again, BUT NOT the way it was executed. Do you not agree with me that it would be extremely suspect if he changed radically ? he basically did not take the same questioning instance, nor did he act the same way in the chat on our hood. How could that not be suspicious? The action itself is very obvious and easy to recognize, so I considered it unlikely to occur in this game, especially because of the courage he had in the opening posts. His mentality, at no time, pointed to bias and that was why I had considered him town.

What I'm saying about your method is that you didn't worry about the fact that it didn't work in the last round, which seemed unrealistic for the town!Ame that I'm used to see. You simply repeated the same line of reasoning, with the reactions, without reflecting on past events and improving it. I know you added a slightly different mechanic, but it is still strange that you adopt this behavior WITHOUT a previous reflection.

[clidd]

clidd is your argument just "I was wrong BUT I'm town"

My argument is:

I had reasons for my reads, even though they’ve proved wrong now. It was not manufactured or invented, I REALLY thought the game would be over.

If you notice, I was the one who started thinking about Kanna being scum and both Datisi and Dsj magically agreed with me. How am i scum here??

[clidd]

Do you not agree with me that it would be extremely suspect if he changed radically ?

Correct, I don't agree with this. I don't see how it would be suspicious to play differently than you did as scum. This is backwards reasoning to me. That being said, I'm not doing anything until we hear from dsj. I think there a high probability that Datisi is leaving you out to dry here just waiting for us to vote dsj.

Additionally I town lean you more than not, but I am weary of your reasoning here.

This is NOT a backwards reasoning, I'm being completely logical here, If I see a player playing completely differently than he was as scum, I will always be inclined to think that this is his meta!town, it makes no sense for me to assimilate that he necessarily flips as scum

twice in a row

and is completely changing the way he plays, even looking like another player, to make it difficult for us to read him. If it were Hectic, I would even agree, but Datisi's own profile does not suggest it. I had no way of guessing that such a small chance would occur right now. My reasoning was perfectly in line with the information likely and available for evaluation. It is a fallacy to say that I was acting in bad faith to pull a random self-vote with ''false'' reads.

[clidd]

@Hectic/mod

can I quote posts frm the hood here?

[clidd]

Ok, I will not discuss this. Think whatever you want.

[clidd]

@Clidd; How was my intro so scummy that you had to have me as lockscum though? Also the previous round wasn't even my town meta, it was just me saying I'll come back later cause I was busy.

Team is Clidd/Datisi again, let's go guys

1. Your activity
2. Overreaction
3. Timing
4. Lamist
5. Lack of post-suspicion engagement

This with the fact that I thought it was unlikely that Datisi would be scum again, so I was sure my hood was entire town. I even tried to discuss this theory with them, but both were so receptive that I made the mistake of not doubting the lack of paranoia in our hood. They simulated a progression from "

Why do you think that?"

to

"we fully agree"

in a short period of time. I have proof of that, but I intend to paraphrasing it as soon as I get home.

[clidd]

Everyone please answer each question and be as thorough as possible on questions where reasoning can be provided. If we want to win, the town among you must out town the other two. Help us come to understand your towniness.

Clidd

1. Please explain how "posting differently from scum play is town indicative" and "posting differently from scum play is suspicious" is not contradictory. I want to understand your thought process here.
2. If I had gotten to 1, would you have reset me or were you so sure on Kanna that you were willing to let it end then?
3. In post 191 why did you link my 183 instead of just responding to it? (you had it quoted)
4. What did you mean by 176? I understand the emotional read part, but what do you mean by wanting to check if it were correct? How would you do so?

1. I will not explain it again. It seems ''contradictory'' to you because you are unable to follow my line of reasoning correctly.

2. As I explained, Kanna's entry into this game was very scummy, as her reaction after the suspicion was announced. I did not see a significant attempt to try to explain herself, just as I found the call to quote an isolated game strange, as if that proved something. Last round I assimilated with an event that happened in a past game, involving Hectic and you, so it would be completely plausible for her to use such information as scum. So YES, i was sure to some extent. But the lack of opposition to this theory prevented me from recognizing that this hypothesis was incorrect, because for me, my logic was perfect.

3. I was answering the important part of your post. For me the game would end there, so much so, that I speculated about Datisi just to try to instigate myself if I was correct (and concluded that I was).

4. At the time, I was discussing on the hood the possibility of Kanna, in fact, being scum. Then I theorized that you would be the partner, trying to simulate a town attitude with the same tool that you used in the last round. Initially, I wanted to confirm if I was right, or chasing the wrong track, but I didn't find any arguments against that when commenting with both on the hood. The fact that I opened this dialogue in the private chat with them was because I considered my hood to be the town, so it would be useless to discuss it in depth in the public chat with scums to disturb my thoughts.

The way they conducted the private chat was good, as Datisi interacted with me directly while Dsj served as support, making some sporadic comments and agreeing with everything that was said.

Sequence of important events:

1 ° -> Datisi posts very fast and says he is happy to be town, asking if I am too.
2 ° -> I say that I have suspicions on Kanna
3 ° -> Dsj makes a pointless comment, imitating my "huum", as if he wanted to convey the feeling that he was suspicious of that.
4 ° -> Exactly ten minutes of discussion later, Datisi "appears" from the ''beyond'' and says that he agrees with me.
5 ° -> After I mentioned the possible Ame's bluff and suggested the possible connection between Kanna + Ame, Datisi asks if I want to reset her counter or if I should expose her bluff (he didn't disagree with me at any moment, nor questioned the motivation. It just seemed like I said, "Guys, I think Kanna and Ame are partners" "Datisi:" Okay, I agree "" Dsj: "" Okay, I agree too ". they basically abstain from responsibility because they knew I was wrong, so they could use that fact against me later.
6 ° -> I mention that I find it strange that you are insisting on the same approach as the last round, since it did not work.
7 ° -> Datisi immediately 2 minutes after my posts says he considers the duo Kanna + Ame lock-scum ???
8 ° -> Randomly, Datisi tells Dsj to post more (trying to pretend they don't have a chat in common).
9 ° -> Dsj starts to be more active and bring generic ideas that scums usually post a lot on the hood (trying, again, to deliver the feeling that he was suspicious of something, even agreeing with EVERYTHING I was saying)
10 ° -> I make transparent some actions that I will do in the public chat, awaiting opinions.
11 ° -> Datisi stops posting, as if he wants to wait and see what I'm going to do.
12 ° -> As soon as I say I'm not going to reset Ame's counter again, 1 MINUTE EXACTLY, Datisi says that if Ame doesn't selfvote, she will be confirmed along with Kanna, reaffirming the hypothesis I had previously mentioned .

It was always like that, I posted something, explained, Datisi agreed, Dsj posted something about paranoia, but even so he believed on every single of my words, and then there was a period when the posts stopped, from both, as if they were doing something else to not reply. Obviously, I don't need to deduce that they were using scum chat during that time.

[clidd]

@Clidd; How was my intro so scummy that you had to have me as lockscum though? Also the previous round wasn't even my town meta, it was just me saying I'll come back later cause I was busy.

Team is Clidd/Datisi again, let's go guys

1. Your activity
2. Overreaction
3. Timing
4. Lamist
5. Lack of post-suspicion engagement

This with the fact that I thought it was unlikely that Datisi would be scum again, so I was sure my hood was entire town. I even tried to discuss this theory with them, but both were so receptive that I made the mistake of not doubting the lack of paranoia in our hood. They simulated a progression from "

Why do you think that?"

to

"we fully agree"

in a short period of time. I have proof of that, but I intend to paraphrasing it as soon as I get home.

Actually, 3 of these relate to activity. If you knew I was town in that last round and didn’t participate because I was busy then why do you think activity would be AI for me? Also I said this:

Wow, ok.

If you're thinking it's me based on my intro, take a look at my marathon games. I don't believe everyone who thinks is me is town honestly.

But why didn’t you check my marathon games to see if I was telling the truth? Or at least asked about it? You didn’t give me the benefit of the doubt at all there because you wanted to make an easy push

The second point is gamblers fallacy, clidd. At least one of you/dat rolled scum twice there (´• ᴗ •`✿)

Your marathon didn't mean that you was telling the truth. You act as if mentioning a past game with similar initial behavior confirms you as town, when in reality, this assimilation with past games can be done by any alignment, just like I used the game in common with Hectic and Ame in the past round, as scum, to suggest a behavior I wanted to point out. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fallacy you are implying, my point was that I imagined the chance of Datisi to be scum again low, and I associated this point with the towny behavior he was apparently presenting. My point is NOT AN ISOLATED fact, but the joining of a set of EVENTUALITIES that combined form a read. That's HOW I play.

[clidd]

He's lying. He stopped posting after Kanna selfvoted.

[clidd]

Ame, post 220 was said out of context. I was developing my line of thought about kanna and you as scum team. I mentioned briefly that MAYBE I would have reset your count, but I went back after I came to the conclusion that I had no doubts about the Datisi's alignment at that moment, before Kanna selfvoted.

[clidd]

I'm almost giving up on explaining this, but in summary:

it all depends on the context. In this game, specifically, I observed a demonstration in the past round of Datisi's attitude as scum. Theoretically, if he flip scum again in a row, it is notorious that he would try to change his playstyle to appear town. However, imagine that he changes drastically, leaving the questioning sphere and adopting a greater conformity, agreeing much more often than normal and posting differently on the hood. It's very suspicious, don't you think? it is almost as if a beggar who begs on the street appeared, hours later, on the same street he frequents, in evening dress and wearing a million-dollar ferrari, the radical change of posture would attract a lot of attention. And that's basically what I noticed in this game. It is so suspicious that I did not imagine it was scum simulating a different playstyle, precisely because of how obvious it is. If he had gone for the logically safer option, he would have changed a few lighter strokes, at most medium, to show that he was slightly out of the scum spectrum that we saw. In the same analogy, the beggar would appear on the same street, hours later, in a regular jacket, slightly cleaner and with semi-new shoes. He would not attract so much attention and could beg for money at will.

The contradiction, in your head, occurred because you don't understand that I consider several scenarios where the two things happen,

"posting differently from scum play is town indicative"

and

"posting differently from scum play is suspicious"

. There is no universal truth regarding this, but different contexts and scenarios that vary in applicability through the variables from one game to the other.

[clidd]

And I wouldn't reset your counter, because I was sure of you bluffing and Kanna being your partner.

[clidd]

You know that my reasoning is genuine.

[clidd]

I can't comment because of the rules, but I believe this is not the first time that someone think I'm contradicting myself because they can't understand me.

These people are always wrong, that's my own playstyle.

[clidd]

Waiting for votes.

[clidd]

For me it's very intuitive. The problem with this game was the SR I had at Kanna and the TR I had on Datisi early.

[clidd]

It's pretty obvious that I'm playing alone here.

[clidd]

Im town, don't worry.

[clidd]

2 votes left for win

[clidd]

@Kanna @Chemist

[clidd]

I'm unconvinced

It feels like you used reasoning you knew you could justify instead of reasoning you actually had

Unless I have two brains and each has its own reasoning, this is wrong.

[clidd]

You are confusing reasoning with lines of thought.

[clidd]

VOTE: dsj

feels like he doesn't have any agenda behind his posts

Dsj lied and distorted the context of one of the phrases that I said, it makes no sense for you to townread him.

[clidd]

Not to mention the unexplained periods of inactivity and reappearance on the hood at opportune times.

[clidd]

Whatever, I have already detailed everything that needed to be clarified.

I won't be crawling because of a single round.

[clidd]

I haven't seen either of them refute me. All the events I have mentioned are true.

[clidd]

By consenting with my post, they acknowledge that these events occurred, otherwise they would have shown opposition.

[clidd]

Yeah, just checked. It was mostly clidd and I talking in the hood, with dsjstr occasionally making a meaningless post. When i told him to start talking and asked him if I was getting pocketed by clidd, he immediately got ~suspicious~ because of the obviously logical problem there that clidd would have to be his partner. clidd kept insisting we're the town hood, and dsjstr additionally said that we've been talking a lot and that usually happens when scum are trying to trick town. though he never mentioned any suspicion in the main thread.

Datisi omitted many things about himself when talking about his version of those events on hood.

Did you notice how he doesn't mention that he

agreed with me

on more than one point ? probably no, but I did.

He could also have tried to explain why he agreed with me, but he didn't too. He stayed as little as possible from what was asked, without giving further details.

[clidd]

And considering that I was the only one who gave additional details and explained the full version of the facts, I am obvtown at this point.

[clidd]

Kanna, this is very important.

[clidd]

I mentioned all the events chronologically on the hood, explained why I had reasoned you + Ame and mentioned how/why my lines of thought were not questioned by both on the hood. Be aware that I kept myself as transparent as possible, without omitting any information, unlike Datisi, and I did not lie, as Dsj did.

[clidd]

Kanna feels his pleading is uncharacteristic, but I say that's because we've never seen him in a position where he had to convince us he was town over someone else.

This is true, I rarely stay alive to experience lylo situations. This is the second time in 1 month of games.

[clidd]

If you vote for dsj we lose, if you vote for me we win. It's in your hand now.

[clidd]

I appreciate your game plan, Datisi. It's very intuitive and I also thought you were town.

[clidd]

Not really. He kept insisting tht its a "fact" that we're the Town hood.

Send a conclusion after developing my reasons for you being town and Kanna scum is "insisting" ?

[clidd]

You are omitting information again, because my main focus was on understanding if Kanna and Ame were scums, while our hood was parallel.

[clidd]

My goal was to try to figure out which hood is which, not necessarily the alignments of every member. It was partly a "mindmeld" - i thought Kanna's intro was odd, and when clidd mentioned the same thing in the hood I thought he was Town and figured we were the Town hood.

His explanation of "why would town!Ame use the same thing again if she just lost" sounded sound enough at the time, and I was confbiasing I guess.

"

figured we were the Town hood

"

- How did I "insist" that we were the town hood if that thought was already present in your mind ?

[clidd]

I mentioned it before in private, asking if any of them wanted to reset it. Clidd just commented that he doesn't find your approach genuine or whatever. A bit later, he said he's resetting it, but then changed his mind. I just went along, because i thought we were the Town hood.

[clidd]

Ok, you just skipped 22 posts to select that. I didn't really have cohesion, obviously.

[clidd]

I wonder who said

kanna/ame gg ez"

before my post and is criticizing my conclusion

[clidd]

I'm not criticising your conclusion lmao
You never had that conclusion
You knew that wasn't the team

Though there's no point to this conversation in the first place

Ok

[clidd]

If I did a lie counter on Datisi's progression in the game, such number would exceed the mass of the sun and moon together.

[clidd]

Yeah, absolutely

[clidd]

You played it very well, using the basics. Perhaps I should have been more cautious before considering our entire hood as town. I shared a lot with you two that was not developed

[clidd]

And as a result, they got a bad impression on mem

[clidd]

And because Datisi didn't post after Kanna voted despite it being during his active hours,

This part is bullshit. Kanna self voted at 1:30am for me. It was one of the days i actually was asleep at the time, i posted when i woke up. If you could find me posting elsewhere on the site at the time that'd be a valid argument, but...

To be frank i have absolutely zero motivation to actually read clidd's essays and try to argue them. So. If your reasoning is "I'd rather give scum the win bc the Townie is doing nothing" or "i wanna vote dsjstr so at least one of clidd/datisi lose because of the first round" then go right ahead.

This was good too.

[clidd]

Are he saying he lied about you reinforcing that it was the town hood during his and dsj's interaction?

Nah, he stated things without context, ignored several posts on the hood and did not quote everything he said. He actually typed "gg ez kanna + Ame" after I presented my reasoning, but anyways.

[clidd]

But I won't worry about that, if you want to vote for him or Dsj, I understand.

[clidd]

That said, I am going to turn my focus to other parallel eventualities.

At least I had fun in this game. The calm instance of Datisi is something I did not expect.

Good voting.

[clidd]

Could you make a case on why dsj is scum? You haven't really talked about him.

Dsj is just a henchman, Datisi is the big fish.

[clidd]

dsj

1. On a scale of 0-10 how upset would you be if we chose Datisi?
2. Was there any sign in the hood that Cliid or Datisi were trying to get you not to reset my count (either by implying that if I didn't follow through I was scum or more directly)?
3. If you were in our position, who would you choose based on the public content currently available and why?
4. Who is scummier out of Clidd and Datisi to you and why?
5. Why didn't you post in the game thread?

1. 10
2. clidd out right said they would reset your count and Aaron agreed to it
3. No idea I'm glad I'm over here
4. I would say clidd, Aaron had an emotional response when it was revealed that this is the mafia side
5. I was busy with another game and then I fell asleep

Items 2 and 4 are biased. He mentions "Aaron" to unconsciously direct attention to me, as the only distinguishable name in his report is "clidd".

[clidd]

I have already explained these points as well. My interest in Dsj is 0.

[clidd]

If he did, he would be automatically linked to you. Scum! Dsj is not as good at simulating superficial behavior as you are.

[clidd]

The fact that you don't reason it proves that your mindset is scum.

[clidd]

because clidd has to carry his scumbuddy and i have to scream at yall until you vote for me

Funny, because I spent HOURS ARGUMENTING AGAINST THREE PEOPLE ALONE.

[clidd]

My point is that YOU ARE SCUM

[clidd]

You shouldn't even have the right to type in this chat. I have already unmasked you and anticipated your steps.

[clidd]

[clidd]

You aren't going to jail.

[clidd]

Guys, can't we finish this ? Datisi will continue to move the board until we checkmate him.

[clidd]

I appreciate your game plan, Datisi. It's very intuitive and I also thought you were town.

What was his game plan?

It isn't obvious ? he was aware of the impression I had about scum!Datisi and reversed the behavioral polarities in the hood and in the general chat. The Datisi who put little on the hood and showed himself with a questioning instance, became an individual of quick agreement and objective simplicity. His plan was to agree with me (as he noticed that I am inclined to trust players who collaborate with me), use Dsj to disperse attention, distort events to damage my image, and mimic the behavior of one of the past games, typing in a more fluidly way to captivate players' doubts, just like he did with you.

[clidd]

After I made the "dsj, am I getting pocketed?" question and he had a poor reaction you immediately jumped in saying it's a fact we were the town hood.

Clidd I'm confused by your answer, did or did this not happen?

The event he mentioned is distorted. That comment occurred, but it was directed at the impression I had about Kanna and you being scums.

[clidd]

My interest in dsj himself is very much 0 too, don't get me wrong. I just find it very peculiar how he wasn't even trying when it was looking like the votes will swing onto Clidd. As if he doesn't care if Clidd gets voted as the "townie". Wonder why.

If he did, he would be automatically linked to you. Scum! Dsj is not as good at simulating superficial behavior as you are.

How would he be linked to Datisi by trying to prevent you from being voted? The goal for each of you should be to prevent the other two from being voted. The fact that dsj was allowing you to be voted suggests that he has no incentive to keep you from being the pick, i.e. that you two are partners.

Frame/WIFOM, Ame. You are not new to this game.

[clidd]

Okay, I'll stop. I'm going to bed soon anyway.



also pagetop

[clidd]

Alternative theory, you and dsj are scum. You meta read Datisi as town just as you read me as town in the previous game to get on his good side and to give you an excuse to declare your hood as town. Datisi jumped the gun and agreed with you, but you were prepared for the fallout and began immediately town casing yourself afterward. And because how close you two were associated, we would likely choose dsj, your partner as the townie.



Right, which is why I know that players are usually playing yomi on layer 1. You keep making the assumption that they are layer 2:

-Datisi is being suspicious, so he must be scum (L1) :: but that's too obvious so he must be town (L2)!
-dsj isn't fighting the Clidd wagon, so he must be fine with it (L1) :: or that's what he wants us to think (L2)!

I'm sure you've heard of a thing called Occam's Razor, Clidd. You keep bypassing the simplest and most reasonable explanations because the more convoluted answer suits your needs.

Alternative theory, Kanna acted scummy, Ame too. Clidd noticed and started to talking with Datisi and Dsj about it, and they both agreed. With the manipulation of meta, Datisi remained off Clidd's radar, while Dsj tried to sow small superficial paranoia seeds on the hood, although he agreed with every word of Clidd. As instructed by Datisi, Dsj took advantage of the few appearances in the general chat to act apathetically, making it difficult to identify his partnership with Datisi. After Kanna's self-vote, there was an intense distance from Dsj, while Datisi planned what he would respond. Clidd was bombarded with questions in the meantime, giving enough space for the scum duo to emerge later, with a

''mother fucker''

comment from Datisi as a preparatory reaction so that later, he could react to the accusations directed at him appropriately, mimicking the elements perceived by Ame, Chemist and Kanna, who unconsciously classified as towny, precisely because of the simplicity and calm of such act. As a result, Clidd, who had everyone against him, endeavored to elucidate the logical sequence of events and open the eyes of the jurors, but was eventually overshadowed by Ame's wrong line of reasoning, who after voting correctly earlier, pursued the wrong leads and departed from the truth that would lead to victory. Noting, later, that Clidd had already solved the game alone, but failed to carry three players on his back.

L1 and L2 for me are joystick components. Occam's Razor seems familiar.

''

You keep bypassing the simplest and most reasonable explanations because the more convoluted answer suits your needs.

''

- You are doing exactly what you mentioned. You see what's going on, but you don't observe it. Usually, I expect smart instances from you, but I noticed a large cognitive fall of your progression from the beginning of the round until now. I'm not intending to prolong this discussion, so if you want to decide now, it will be better. Just knowing that I'm right is enough to me.

[clidd]

Plus:

effort is my strongest town meta. The last round is the only complete game as scum that I have on my profile. If I were scum in this round, which is totally different from the last round in terms of effort and reasoning, all my method and texts would be used against me as scum meta in future games, making it difficult for anyone to have a TR in me. I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot like that.

[clidd]

You know that as well as I do, Ame.

People automatically read me as town because of this meta, so it would be illogical for me to throw everything in the trash because of a short game with 6 players.

[clidd]

Everyone please answer each question and be as thorough as possible on questions where reasoning can be provided. If we want to win, the town among you must out town the other two. Help us come to understand your towniness.

Clidd

1. Please explain how "posting differently from scum play is town indicative" and "posting differently from scum play is suspicious" is not contradictory. I want to understand your thought process here.
2. If I had gotten to 1, would you have reset me or were you so sure on Kanna that you were willing to let it end then?
3. In post 191 why did you link my 183 instead of just responding to it? (you had it quoted)
4. What did you mean by 176? I understand the emotional read part, but what do you mean by wanting to check if it were correct? How would you do so?

1. I will not explain it again. It seems ''contradictory'' to you because you are unable to follow my line of reasoning correctly.

2. As I explained, Kanna's entry into this game was very scummy, as her reaction after the suspicion was announced. I did not see a significant attempt to try to explain herself, just as I found the call to quote an isolated game strange, as if that proved something. Last round I assimilated with an event that happened in a past game, involving Hectic and you, so it would be completely plausible for her to use such information as scum. So YES, i was sure to some extent. But the lack of opposition to this theory prevented me from recognizing that this hypothesis was incorrect, because for me, my logic was perfect.

3. I was answering the important part of your post. For me the game would end there, so much so, that I speculated about Datisi just to try to instigate myself if I was correct (and concluded that I was).

4. At the time, I was discussing on the hood the possibility of Kanna, in fact, being scum. Then I theorized that you would be the partner, trying to simulate a town attitude with the same tool that you used in the last round. Initially, I wanted to confirm if I was right, or chasing the wrong track, but I didn't find any arguments against that when commenting with both on the hood. The fact that I opened this dialogue in the private chat with them was because I considered my hood to be the town, so it would be useless to discuss it in depth in the public chat with scums to disturb my thoughts.

The way they conducted the private chat was good, as Datisi interacted with me directly while Dsj served as support, making some sporadic comments and agreeing with everything that was said.

Sequence of important events:

1 ° -> Datisi posts very fast and says he is happy to be town, asking if I am too.
2 ° -> I say that I have suspicions on Kanna
3 ° -> Dsj makes a pointless comment, imitating my "huum", as if he wanted to convey the feeling that he was suspicious of that.
4 ° -> Exactly ten minutes of discussion later, Datisi "appears" from the ''beyond'' and says that he agrees with me.
5 ° -> After I mentioned the possible Ame's bluff and suggested the possible connection between Kanna + Ame, Datisi asks if I want to reset her counter or if I should expose her bluff (he didn't disagree with me at any moment, nor questioned the motivation. It just seemed like I said, "Guys, I think Kanna and Ame are partners" "Datisi:" Okay, I agree "" Dsj: "" Okay, I agree too ". they basically abstain from responsibility because they knew I was wrong, so they could use that fact against me later.
6 ° -> I mention that I find it strange that you are insisting on the same approach as the last round, since it did not work.
7 ° -> Datisi immediately 2 minutes after my posts says he considers the duo Kanna + Ame lock-scum ???
8 ° -> Randomly, Datisi tells Dsj to post more (trying to pretend they don't have a chat in common).
9 ° -> Dsj starts to be more active and bring generic ideas that scums usually post a lot on the hood (trying, again, to deliver the feeling that he was suspicious of something, even agreeing with EVERYTHING I was saying)
10 ° -> I make transparent some actions that I will do in the public chat, awaiting opinions.
11 ° -> Datisi stops posting, as if he wants to wait and see what I'm going to do.
12 ° -> As soon as I say I'm not going to reset Ame's counter again, 1 MINUTE EXACTLY, Datisi says that if Ame doesn't selfvote, she will be confirmed along with Kanna, reaffirming the hypothesis I had previously mentioned .

It was always like that, I posted something, explained, Datisi agreed, Dsj posted something about paranoia, but even so he believed on every single of my words, and then there was a period when the posts stopped, from both, as if they were doing something else to not reply. Obviously, I don't need to deduce that they were using scum chat during that time.

What do you think would happen if people saw that I can do that as scum ?

[clidd]

The partner could further strengthen the push on me by pressing a self-vote more quickly.

Which means:

Ame + Chemist> unlikely, as Chemist was online and did not interfere.
Ame + Dsj> unlikely, as his first post would not make sense to question his own partner (75)

Make the comparison my actual analysis with last round. You will see that I am right.

[clidd]

Speaking of references.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82235
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81841

[clidd]

Kanna made on post. You made an incorrect assumption off that one post and an incorrect assumption on one trait of Ame despite her logical explanation. Then when it's made known to you through mechanics who the scum team is, you apparantly consider yourself to have "solved" the game. #slowclap

I'm not buying the false bravado.

You should play as scum to the best of your ability. Not doing so is against the spirit of the game and the site.

It's ok, just vote on Datisi or Dsj if you want then. It won't make a difference.

[clidd]

Reasoning 0

--> Ame.

[clidd]

I had to quote meta for you to hear me. Honestly..

[clidd]

Because continuing to push in this manner would affirm a Cliddatisi agenda, and because Caliddatisi would want to avoid the fallout during the voting phase, it is unlikely there was a Cliddatisi agenda; therefore, Clidd and Datisi are unlikely scum together. [Strength:

Modest

]

[clidd]

Your bravado/obnoxiousness is out of character given our recent buddying. I'm still considering whether it's scumClidd overattempting to mimic his town confidence or if the Sherlock GIFs are simply stimulating a subconscious emulation.

Actually, I am slightly irritated by your inability to notice that I am town in this round.

It seems like I spent hours talking with walls about my case on Datisi.

[clidd]

And this character '' Sherlock '' helps me to not be toxic.

[clidd]

It won't make a difference.

"The fun in this game is winning for me. If I fail to do that, I fail to do what I set out to play the game for" -Clidd 2020 (paraphrased from memory)

Yes, that is right. But that doesn't mean having to carry three players on my back while I receive whipping.

You are confusing fun with sadism.

[clidd]

I did not put myself in any position, you was the person who led me to an interrogation room where I am until now. I can't empathize with you for the way you approached my case, because you totally disregarded the fact that I prioritized this game for many hours, almost as if my participation meant nothing. I was bombarded with many questions and inquiries while Datisi and Dsj were received more flexibly, with few questions.

I respect your method, but I started to get uncomfortable with you and this round, so I probably won't play the next one, regardless of the outcome.

[clidd]

2 votes left.

[clidd]

You just proved what I said about you.

[clidd]

The recent progression is terribly unsatisfactory. We are stagnating at a point that should be easy to assimilate. Ame already has the right answer, but insists on chasing the wrong clues to achieve her particular preference scenario.

[clidd]

I wish I had done this before -> VOTE: clidd

We would have won in seconds.

[clidd]

Clidd, what did you mean by #383?

359, last paragraph.

[clidd]

Clidd, what did you mean by #383?

359, last paragraph.

Where do you think the error is occurring in argument 1?

Your interpretation of Dsj. He already had his answer ready when he quoted Datisi's supposed "emotional" reaction in 220. That was agreed between the two previously. If you noticed later, when Datisi answered your question in 226 he implied that he knew about your "traps", therefore, instructed Dsj to purposely fall into them. They took care to post at different times, to create the impression of information-distance between both.

[clidd]

Yes, it was my first anime. But I stopped watching when L died, he was the best character.

[clidd]

Haha I figured.

You should check out The Promised Neverland. It's a short series (12 episodes I believe) and I think you'll like it. I see you as the character "Ray."

Hum, I heard about it.

The synopsis seems suggestively promising, although it approaches a very strange and post-apocalyptic premise.

I just wonder how this character mentioned is similar to me.

[clidd]

Yes, it was my first anime. But I stopped watching when L died, he was the best character.

[clidd]

This is the same lylo: Im Ame and Datisi is Kanna.

[clidd]

Don't overthink it, vote on me.

[clidd]

It's ok, I have no opposition to his second victory as scum.

[clidd]

i did keep up with strawberry, but considering those questions gave you a townread on both scum and a scumread on some townies, you really wanna be reusing them?

Shameful.

[clidd]

She already solved, but you probably know that.

[clidd]

It's ok, I have no opposition to his second victory as scum.

Would it be because it would also be your victory?

This makes no sense, both are partners.

[clidd]

You just proved what I said about you.

Were you scum claiming here?

Yes, you were absolutely correct in your deductions.

[clidd]

Yeah that was very good.

Sorry I failed you Kanna.

It will never happen again.

Clidd were you serious about not playing again?

The GIF BATTLE WAS GREAT. lmaoed when datisi pulled out Kira.

@Hectic Death Stranding!

The game was fun, but I'm cognitively exhausted.