Micro 943: Treestump Express [Game over!]

[ProHawk]

Hey everyone!

[ProHawk]

Vote: Chemist11422

Disagree on reads list.

[ProHawk]

UNVOTE: Chemist

Yall are making me nervous

[ProHawk]

Avatar Reads:

northsidegal
Porkens
Morning
Misty
ProHawk
ceejay
tuxedo
votato
Quick

@me, I want constructive criticism

~Cosmic

I don't understand this post, can you elaborate please? It appears to be a reads list but I don't want to assume if real or joke as I fell a lot of your posts are off the cuff so to speak...

[ProHawk]

Hawk ruining the fun though. Each person to not hammer was narrowing the PoE bit by bit. Until we confirmed scum Chemist. Now we got actually scum hunt.

Not a fan of quick hammers.

[ProHawk]

I unvoted because I hadn't had time to digest what was happening. I'm getting the feeling that Chemist is town, and yes I am a bit suspect of people on the Chemist wagon, yourself in particular actually

[ProHawk]

These posts imply that Chemist is town

Conspire not hammering here is town.

Conspire not hammering here is town.

As scum they’d just quickhammer then self stump

Yes?

Yeah you got it.

Hawk ruining the fun though. Each person to not hammer was narrowing the PoE bit by bit. Until we confirmed scum Chemist. Now we got actually scum hunt.

While being confident that Chemist is scum?

Tuxedo, how confident are you on Misty!scum? That strategy is as good of a strategy that voting early in lylo is to "confirm" people because they don't hammer (pretty bad).

~Cosmic

Is Misty Chemist? I think pretty confident. Certainly more so than any other play at the moment. Their joke or gambit seemed pretty misguided and shallow, and the follow up of look I wasn't scared to die I must be town felt hollow especially because they seem pretty scared to die. Also they were at L-1 for a long time without dying.

I think Tuxedo realized that he slipped up and later corrected himself...

Well technically you could be scum with Chemist, but my original thought is if chemist isn't scum. Then scum would just come in here a hammer as fast as possible. Then the day would end, and the mafia that did the hammer would be the one treestumped. Making us go into Lylo with minimal information.

VOTE: Tuxedo

[ProHawk]

Feeling town from Conspire and Chemist

Not feeling great about votato and Tuxedo

Want to see more from ceejay

[ProHawk]

i thought Tuxedo was a bit towny though. Could you elaborate a little on the "slip" you think he mightve done that makes you suspect him?

Sorry, sometimes I don't do a lot of thorough elaborating on my thoughts...

From a scum mindset, they (scum) already know who is town and who isn't right? So Tux's post 67 and 73 were based on the assumption that Chemist was town, and therefore anyone not hammering them was also town. This would make sense from the Tux!Town perspective if he also had a town read on Chemist, however we learn in Post 76 that Tuxedo has a scum-read on Chemist so there is a dissonance there that from my perspective makes sense as scum and not town.

Am I missing something here?

[ProHawk]

I'm just going to pop in and say we should treat L-2 as L-1 since scum can, as stated previously, lolhammer with zero consequences.

For what Hawk said my logic was as Morning Tweet said. It wasn't a great plan, but since I felt pretty good about scum!Chem I wasn't that worried. Probably should have been more cautious in retrospect. Though I am happy to consider Conspire completely off the lynch table for today.

Also minor thing, eople can just call me Tux. I think some people have called me TM and if others will call Morning Tweet MT that's going to get confusing fast. At least to me.

Tux, I don't understand what you are saying here, can you explain better why you feel like Conspire should be completely off the lynch table today?

[ProHawk]

nope, seems you are pretty in tune with the scum mindset.

wut?

For reals tho, what are your reads?

[ProHawk]

nope, seems you are pretty in tune with the scum mindset.

wut?

For reals tho, what are your reads?

no u

I don't understand your reticence here. I also am going to be re-doing my reads once I get some time to sift through my thoughts. A lot of the people who I feel are likely scum seem to be voting eachother...

ok on second readthrough of Tux's posts wrt to #111, i can buy Morning's reasoning. I think Tux looks better too. The key i think is that they weren't scumreading chemist *before* claiming we were town so it's possible they were in the mindset chemist was nulltown before deciding they were more likely scum later. the earlier posts looked like pressuring.

I'll go back and review again and try not to tunnel here...

Just finished a game with CeeJay as scum... this game isn't looking much different from that. Would like to hear some thoughts on the game from him.

[ProHawk]

Okay, so I just got through an ISO of Tux and I really just can't get past my bias here...

Conspire...

I wanted to see where you were going with it. I thought you had a plan, and that if the plan was simply to vote the first person to follow it would be a pretty scummy plan.
What do you think of the other people on your wagon?

Where does the tone of this post point Tux's read of Chem? Answer that and then go read post #59 Why does Tux like Porkins' post?

I'm going to take a break from Tux for a bit and digest all of the stuff I have missed on, I see ceejay is still gone... but may likely be replaced.

[ProHawk]

so you could run the WIFOM "conspire didnt hammer, ergo town" argument. actually, didnt that logic come from you initially, tux?

But there is no world in which scum!us doesn't hammer town!chem for towncred because we don't need it. We can just do our job and go to lylo.

tbh...i still kinda don't understand votato's pairing but oh well

~Esper

There is a lot of this logic floating around, and I want to put in my two cents here.

I don't know about anyone else, but this is my first time playing this setup and if I were scum, I don't necessarily think that I would have thought about quick-hammering particularly that quick into the game had my team-mate not been Chem. So for me there is a very real possibility that there are other scenarios aside from the "optimal" play as scum at work here.

Especially looking at you Conspire, you have two heads with which to figure out how to make a play, and if you are scum here then you would have had to also make that correct play with your scum-team as well.

I guess what I am saying is that people often don't play "optimally" and some of us are basing a lot of reads based on that optimal play.

[ProHawk]

I really like MT for town.

This Post on the voting analysis was a ton of work. There is a lot that I don't really get or understand because it's hard to present association this early in the game without actually having flips. But it feels very town scum hunting and trying to figure stuff out.

I also feel like the end conclusion meshes with how I'm feeling about Porkins and Ceejay

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally we get a reads list from porkens...

Conspire,MT
Tux,pro hawk,quick
Check,contato,chem

Tux sits squarely in the third from the top position on reads, and then we get a vote on tux in 270.

VOTE: tux oh god please stop I’m not scum

This vote reads super opportunistic to me. There is a bit of talk about being too-scummy to be scummy, but I don't really subscribe to that logic.... if it looks like a duck and quacks like one...??

I was actually going to say that I didn't think Tux and Porkens were scum together until I saw this...

VOTE: unvote this was a terrible vote. Tux has given town responses 80-90% on reread.

I still believe chemists opening gambit is more likely scum. I keep coming back to that fundamental thought. I’m pretty sure we could find the partner examining the reactions, but since game ends with one scum why overthink it.

VOTE: chemist

I think I want to

unvote

VOTE: Porkens

Porkins, I don't think you ever explained WHY you voted for Tux, just that it was a bad vote, so let's start there.

[ProHawk]

Are quick's posts going over anyone's heads or is it just me?

Also, ceejay may be replaced hopefully soon? I don't like the timing on it though...

[ProHawk]

It was pure self-preservation, his wagon was competing, but it was stupid.

If you didn't feel like he was scum, why him over you?

[ProHawk]

Why is porkins town?

[ProHawk]

actually you know what

I'm tired and don't feel like getting the quotes right

But basically PH is pushing on porkens without any sort of follow-up solving using the push, which is weird because it seems like a "let's start here" vote

I'm not sure what you mean here... he has been making short posts, I don't see a lot of scum-hunting here and his vote on Tux was super opportunistic when Tux wasn't even a scum-read of his.

What is your read on Porkins?

[ProHawk]

So we have top three contenders in Quickety, Porkins, and MT...

Obv I feel like I'm good where I am at.
Quickety's vote is non-opportunistic so I like that, but would need to go look at his read on Pork
MT I have felt very town from their posts.

[ProHawk]

Why is MT not voting anyone with 10 hours or so to go???

[ProHawk]

That was based on top votes only to be clear

[ProHawk]

Why has Ceejay been completely taken off the table?

~Cosmic

No one is voting there??

Honestly, wouldn't be a bad vote, I would vote here. I don't know that meta is a strong argument, but ceejay did exactly the same thing in my last Newbie game where he was gone/lurking the entire game until the end and then picked up the second day. I was hoping there was going to be a replacement here if ceejay legitimately didn't have time to give the game.

[ProHawk]

I'm not for Votato, CJ, and Porkins being lynched today. All the stuff people are scum reading them for seem just playstyle and NAI. Honestly don't like Conspire's pivot here. Do you not scum read Morning anymore? Prohawk where are you at? You seem to be flirting with a CJ pivot as well.

I am, there's really a lack of information from CeeJay's ISO which is scum-leaning for sure. I agree with you on votato at this point, but I could see a CeeJay or Porkins scum flip.

I think I may be a little tunneling on MT-town because I feel like our thoughts have been aligning on reads but I can go re-visit that again I suppose.

[ProHawk]

ProHawk's ISO is JUICY.

Nom nom nom

[ProHawk]

Just the man we need! Who's scum, ProHawk? I've heard you're a pretty great scumhunter.

~Cosmic

Only if you tell me who you heard this from...

[ProHawk]

I think this setup is actually really hard and really cool all at the same time.

[ProHawk]

You're welcome

[ProHawk]

Hello Esper!!!

I am going to do the real 5head play and meta prohawk and see what his inclination to bus is.

@Mod is prohawk allowed to post?

^ if he can he is a coward.

I take offense.

[ProHawk]

I'm curious as to how trees grown on trains...

[ProHawk]

Does anyone have any questions for me?

[ProHawk]

Life questions that is...

[ProHawk]

Life questions that is...

What hobbies do you have outside mafia?
I used to play some MTG myself but I stepped back from it. I am also playing Fire Emblem Three houses and Golf story on my switch

MTG is the bomb... I played way back when, things have changed a ton since then. Commander play is kinda a fun interesting twist for the newer game set.

I like to get out and hit some racquetballs from time to time tho.

[ProHawk]

I'm on that same inferior forum theme!!

[ProHawk]

So about mafia...

[ProHawk]

what do you fill that gut with?

[ProHawk]

what do you fill that gut with?

small children and baby animals mostly. not bats.

That doesn't sound appetizing

[ProHawk]

Damn

[ProHawk]

Glad y'all agreed that keeping myself in 3p wasn't a great choice...

[ProHawk]

Good game guys! Out of curiosity any suggestions for a different 3p lylo? In hindsight maybe ceejay wasn't the best to bring along??

Thanks for playing the end game Porkens!

[ProHawk]

gg

did not enjoy f3 but d1 was fun

because of the ending?