Micro 949 | Mask of Monsters | Game Over!

[Kay Mask]

ok i'll interact with you Kim. this sounds like good idea

what you want to talk about? tiaj

Well played.

[Kay Mask]

It's a mafia game... we play mafia.

I don't know what my avatar is from.

[Kay Mask]

you think all these RVS voters are afraid of making their mains obvious? they're not giving us much to work with here

Maybe. I think it's a lot more dangerous to play cryptically out of fear of making your main obvious than it is to play straightforwardly.

[Kay Mask]

Typo pings me as possible distancing but this Kim/Kat interaction does not look like theater

Pretty early to be talking about this...

[Kay Mask]

I don't think there's much point in talking about what could or couldn't be theater until we see a red flip.

[Kay Mask]

[Kay Mask]

Why would scum intentionally switch posting styles on an account after just one post?

[Kay Mask]

Sure, it's possible that it was. It's also entirely possible that she's a townie who posts in a somewhat inconsistent way.

[Kay Mask]

you realize town will be trying to pick a posting style that's dissimilar to their main?

I mean... you shouldn't. Not unless your main has a highly unusual and recognizable playstyle.

[Kay Mask]

Because otherwise this exact issue is going to happen.

If everyone is playing in an affected way, it will be a lot harder to identify who's being genuine and who isn't.

[Kay Mask]

Well, this has been fun.

[Kay Mask]

No. I was just hoping we'd actually be able to get through the game without any slips.

Of course in retrospect that was kind of a silly thing to expect. This game really should have been played in a PT.

[Kay Mask]

They said to me, "You'll never see its face--
The monster hides behind its mask too well."
The stories that its victims cannot tell
Say evil blossoms in the darkest place.
We came for one last chance to keep its pace
And send the wretched creature back to Hell--
But right before our eyes, the darkness fell
And we, who won the sprint, have lost the race.
The truth is, there's no monster we can fight
Except the one that hides behind our eyes--
Those fires of distrust brighter than the sun.
When we accuse each other with a fright
We scorn, and shout, and meet a quick demise.
We've just destroyed ourselves; we have not won.

[Kay Mask]

I probably just outed myself to like a dozen people lol. I don't even care. If anyone can prove they know who I am from that I can pretty much lock them as town.

[Kay Mask]

VOTE: Kris

Why?

[Kay Mask]

I guess, but do we lose anything by waiting a bit and seeing if scum shoot him? There's always the off chance that that wasn't really Kris slipping.

[Kay Mask]

What are you trying to accomplish?

You haven't given any reads, you're not voting anyone, and now you're trying to stall out the obvious play for an asinine reason

I'm trying to play the game. The game's only been going for 24 hours-- there's plenty that can still happen today even despite the slip, and plus we can force scum to make the first move, which might give us information as well.

[Kay Mask]

That would be, like, super against the rules.

[Kay Mask]

Hmm I feel like you're shading him in bad faith.

It's confbias, but it doesn't read like bad faith to me?

[Kay Mask]

Why would scum go to such a length to case someone they could literally kill at any time?

[Kay Mask]

northsidegal

, if the preference was PM'ed unanimous would you move the game to a PT? I'm having fun and want the mask part to go smoothly as possible.

I second this motion. Probably unrealistic at this point in time, though.

[Kay Mask]

If Kris is indeed town, I think the people who argued saving the shot until LYLO is better (Kirk and Karma iirc) have a higher chance of being scum because I have seen it be a reasonably effective tell that if someone claims the scum's actions were dumb or didn't make sense, scum are more likely to defend them. It's not ironclad, but it is a thing.

[Kay Mask]

It's probably not safe to assume that scum still haven't interacted with each other by this point.

[Kay Mask]

Interesting phrasing. Maybe a townslip? Scum is just one person controlling two accounts.

Sorry, you know what I meant

[Kay Mask]

Not a bad tell, but I'm not defending wolf actions as being not dumb. I'm pointing out that suspicion on people pushing Kris is ill-founded due to the mechanics.

Fair enough.

[Kay Mask]

Kay, what are your individual thoughts on myself, Kuzko, and Karma?

You seem pretty fine to me so far? It's not like scum can't play the way you're playing, but your posting seems to be pretty natural and you're not shying away from engaging and that makes it less likely that you're scum given that scum probably need to adopt an affected manner on at least one account.

What I've seen from Kuzco seems pretty solid, although admittedly it's very little. Pointing out that scum are more likely to use gimmicks is fairly astute and it seemed like he really believed that (of course this changes completely if Kris ends up being scum and it was a bus), and while I wouldn't say 183 was a townslip since I did know that scum was one person and just phrased it badly, I like that he pointed it out.

Karma I don't really have anything on.

[Kay Mask]

for sure, but it usually gets some response and this had zero.

Not true, I responded to it. I could tell it was a joke.

[Kay Mask]

"tiaj" = "this is a joke"

[Kay Mask]

This game sure is moving at a leisurely pace.

[Kay Mask]

Opening post seemed slightly scummy. Caring about komainu isn't what I care about right now. But the way you have been interested in Kris is very worst. He doesn't matter. It's like it's a way for you to find things to talk about to seem like a townie. But you pick a thing that doesn't matter. So it doesn't actually mean you aren't in the cartel

This is... not terrible logic, actually. I would expect that scum on at least one account would be trying to avoid interacting normally so their interactions between the two accounts don't look too similar.

[Kay Mask]

Kay mask will you please join my family?

What do you mean by this?

[Kay Mask]

then use vote for first time

I mean using the vote wouldn't really help if there isn't enough content for it to be aimed accurately. I have some townreads but I wouldn't really feel good ending the day with so little accomplished.

[Kay Mask]

I'm going to go against the grain here: Kay weirds me out, I think a certain type of scum player would play an account like Kay.

Probably.

But also, a certain type of town player would play like me, because I am playing exactly like I normally do.

[Kay Mask]

I don't know if you are the Yakuza or not but if you are you are a high ranking member. We will get many reward money for arrest. Kim made up a theory where kuzco has to talk funny on purpose just to seem different from the other monster. If her theory is right, it could mean kuzco is a wolf, but not a very rewarding one to kill.

Killing scum rewards us with an extra lynch.

Also, it's kinda required for our wincon...?

[Kay Mask]

I don't really have any scumreads per se. I townread Kim, Kuzco, Kitsune, and to some extent Kirk. Setting Kris aside, I'd probably be wanting to lynch in the remaining group of Katrielle, Komainu, Karma.

Although, the more I think about it the more I think that maybe we should just flip Kris because that information will be very useful especially in sorting Kuzco.

[Kay Mask]

wait maybe we should lynch Kris first. someone brought up a good point yesterday about how a Kris!scumflip would massively help in hunting the other scum account and would probably narrow things down significantly. while if we continue to leave Kris for later like we have been doing, we might lynch someone we never would've lynched if we'd known Kris/Porkens was scum. combined with the earlier argument that he WILL die if town when scum go for the multikill, we really should be doing this:

That was me. I think I'm with you here. I think Kris is fairly likely to flip town but we really lose nothing by seeing the flip before we commit to anything else.

VOTE: Kris

[Kay Mask]

I don't scumread Karma per se, but I have a decent amount of townreads outside of them.

[Kay Mask]

If Porkens is the mafia, I suspect Karma and Komainu.

I would like to assume that Porkens did not break the rules of the game and slip on purpose to get Kris lynched.

[Kay Mask]

Kris was Porkens and was being weird.

[Kay Mask]

I am sorry you find my posts forced, but so far both of this game's deaths are players who failed enough to embrace their fear of discover, so they will probably stay that way

Er, there's a difference between making sure you post on the right account and posting weirdly so nobody can guess who you are.

[Kay Mask]

What's a difference without a distinction

But there is a distinction. I am doing the former, you are doing the latter, and look whose posts are easier to parse.

[Kay Mask]

Neat play Karma.

It seems kinda like it was for show to me?

Like, that's such a weird thing to actually expect to work, and it's not like your response rules out you/Kim being a team.

[Kay Mask]

also Kay you ignored my top pick for scum question. i'm not asking you to force a scum read if you don't have any, in that case just pick your "least town read". cool profile picture btw where'd you get it from?

Sorry, having to log into the alt is a pain and I forget stuff that I read while I was on my main. Probably Karma is my top scum pick.

I do not know where my avatar is from.

[Kay Mask]

i am very frustrated if I have made so much effort to hide and people can find me and kay is bitching about how her posts are "easier to parse"

If it makes you feel any better, I have no idea who you are.

[Kay Mask]

Why do you think Kitsune is very likely town?

[Kay Mask]

Sorry, I'm back.

[Kay Mask]

I have also observed Kay's inability to take any form of stance on a matter that requires confrontation

My what? I've taken plenty of stances. If by confrontation you mean scumreads, that sounds like a pretty arbitrary distinction to me. The game can be solved through correct townreads or correct scumreads.

[Kay Mask]

Komainu certainly fits the pattern of scum looking to fake a loss of interest.

[Kay Mask]

My PoE from earlier is pretty intact-- Katrielle, Komainu, Karma. I would still feel comfortable executing in any of those three.

[Kay Mask]

Yes. Because the two flips we had didn't really change anything.

[Kay Mask]

Yes. My townread on Kuzco was predicated on Kris being town. Kris flipping scum would have demolished that townread, which is pretty significant and worth doing, especially since Kris had slipped and would have had to be killed eventually anyway. But it's also reason to keep Kuzco out of my execution pool, because if I think that Kuzco is likely town unless Kris is scum, it would always make sense to kill Kris first.

[Kay Mask]

At the point where I would have wanted to consider pushing a counterwagon, Kuzco had already slipped.

[Kay Mask]

Then if 2 is a convenient number, I assume it's a point in my favor that my PoE is of 3?

[Kay Mask]

Why?

[Kay Mask]

And?

[Kay Mask]

If you insist on summarizing it in bad faith, then sure.

[Kay Mask]

Man this is irritating, this is normally where I'd make a meta appeal...

There's at least one person who knows who I am right? Can you back me up here?

[Kay Mask]

Ok. Summarize it in good faith. Explain how caring quite a bit while contributing very little isn't action for the sake of looking active.

Because I would only do something "for the sake of looking active" if I had a vested interest in appearing active but not really being active.

I have not been hugely active; like I said, secret alt games are always going to be like that. It's a pain to log into the alt. What activity I have had has focused on trying to understand what people are doing and how they're thinking. I haven't been focused on finding scum, in part because the alt slips have distracted us from being able to scumhunt, but also because I put a high premium on townhunting rather than scumhunting. I am pretty confident in Kim and Kitsune being town.

As for Kirk, I thought his early-game engagement showed a lack of reservation and an openness that scum would be hesitant to use because it would make connecting their accounts easier (and it's just sometimes hard for scum to fake in general). That engagement waning does of course increase the likelihood that was an act that he's no longer able to maintain, but I still feel good enough about him to not want to touch him right now.

So if we're looking to get some wagons going, I would be fine voting in any of my PoE. I agree that the game ought to be moving a little faster than it is.

[Kay Mask]

Here are the difficulties with this approach:
1. You put a premium on townhunting over scumhunting, but not only is this a borderline fallacious mindset (If you call everyone town in this game, you will be right almost 80% of the time), but you also fail to have townreads that everyone else does not already have as town.

What are you talking about? If I call everyone town I will be right 0% of the time because it's impossible for everyone to be town. And I don't really see how them being common townreads factored into it. They are still my own. I can explain the rest if you want.

2. Your lynchpool happens to be exactly the number of players that need to be lynched before scum win.

See this is a bad faith argument. It doesn't mean anything unless you set out to come up with reasons why I look scummy and then came across this. Not to mention it isn't even true-- scum need two more incorrect executions to win.

3. Kirk and Kuzco are the only players you can talk about reasons for your reads on, and when you spoke of your Kuzco read you were seated so firmly on the fence that I'm almost certain it's top is imprinted on your rear.

That's, uh, not true? Although I didn't make it clear at the time I did explain later that my Kuzco townread was dependent on Kris being town. That's not fence-sitting.

Do you see how you saying this gets us absolutely nowhere, adds nothing, and the only person getting anything out of this is you look slightly better because you wrote quite a few words so it looks like you're more invested?

Lmao. Because I'm looking so much better out of this exchange.

How, exactly, did you think I was expecting to look better? I know that people hate this stuff. I've been getting shit for it since I joined the site. It does not make me look better, pretty much ever. Can you at least trust that that is true?

[Kay Mask]

Additionally, this isn't an argument that you're not scum because you aren't doing the scummy thing I accused you of doing, it's a statement that declares you aren't doing this scummy thing I'm accusing you of doing, because you'd only do it if you were scum.

Of course. You asked for a good faith explanation, so I gave you the truth. I never said it was the only plausible explanation. Yours is of course PLAUSIBLE, you're just treating it like fact when it's only conjecture.

[Kay Mask]

I'm saying that you don't know I'm doing that, because there's another possible explanation for what I'm doing. But you're assuming I am, and since it is something only scum can do, you're assuming I'm scum, and trying to use that to prove I'm scum.

[Kay Mask]

Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

[Kay Mask]

I townread Kim because she seems to be doing everything in her power to bring the game to a state where it's harder for scum to hide. As in, she's very interactive, she's very animated in her personality and is encouraging others to be the same, her activity hasn't dropped off and she seems interested in making sure the game doesn't die, and she seems to be trying to work with people rather than antagonize or nitpick them.

I townread Kitsune because they have been drawing attention to themself including with the poem thing, and family gimmick, and the baiting of people such as 239 - 242, and the no execute vote. If scum this is nothing short of brazen, and definitely risks accusations of trying to distract the thread and use a weird scum gimmick to avoid being paired with their other account.

[Kay Mask]

Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

The latter is not exclusive to the former. You probably are engaging in ways that you prefer, and you probably prefer to engage in ways that advance the game thread very little. This is a false dichotomy.

You're right; according to your narrow definition of advancing the game, my posts don't do that. But the dichotomy isn't between doing what I like and not advancing the game; it's between specifically trying to pretend as though I'm contributing, versus just doing what I feel like doing (which is assumed to NOT be deceptive in that case). That is a real dichotomy; either I'm intending to be deceptive, or I'm not. You seem to be implying that I am. That's the part I take issue with.

[Kay Mask]

Now that's a bad faith argument and not a response to my argument.

It is a response. You said that if I just called everyone town then I'd be right on 80% of people-- well, of course, that means that calling everyone town is a dumb thing to do and not helpful. It just means that the accuracy rate on townhunting has to be higher than 80% for it to be good townhunting. If I have three townreads and they're all correct, that would be useful, no?

[Kay Mask]

And yes of course I'm interacting with you to make people want to execute me less; that is kind of the point of a defense, no? I'm trying to understand your argument and explain why it isn't accurate.

(Also, I think it's spewing us as not partnered pretty effectively.)

[Kay Mask]

Even though you don't know who I am, I should hope you think highly enough of me to expect that I wouldn't intentionally misconstrue you to make you look bad, because that wouldn't even work?

If you're trying to argue that townhunting isn't a real thing and that I'm making it up to push a scum agenda I... don't know what to tell you. I can go through some random games and look for examples of it but that sounds like hell. Better is to ask the other players here if they think it's legit or not.

Regarding the dichotomy, it does really seem that we aren't understanding each other correctly. Can you try to state, in as simple terms as possible, what the dichotomy you are talking about is, and why you think I must be on one side of it rather than the other?

[Kay Mask]

Even despite this I think it unlikely that all but the people who know me well will be able to guess me, and for those people if they were really invested in it I would have to significantly change my play to avoid being guessed, and I don't think it's worth it.

I guess that's an argument for moving the day along quicker, because it gives scum less time to figure it out.

[Kay Mask]

You're not willing to vote me, even though your vote was just on me?

[Kay Mask]

I don't understand your reasoning in the slightest, but I'm fine with voting Katrielle. And her latest posts don't really help her case (has nothing to do with the fact that she's suspecting me, it looks like she's setting up a vote using shitty associatives).

[Kay Mask]

Takes a pretty shitty mod to miss naked unvote huh

Fair enough

[Kay Mask]

I'm here.

[Kay Mask]

Sorry I was expecting to be free a few hours ago but I got sidetracked.

[Kay Mask]

Katrielle and Karma are the only two users who will sometimes allow a quote to be the very ending of their post. I would say only a tenth or so of people will stylistically do this onsite. To me it would feel out of order.

I noticed this while looking at Karma's grammars.

Seems unlikely to be relevant.

[Kay Mask]

Plus he posts in the middle of the night, come on imagine how much effort that would take to pull off as scum and how easy it would be to mess up.

I don't agree with this, assuming you had a sleep schedule that allowed it it wouldn't be too hard to just pick timezones for your two personas and designate ranges that those accounts can only post during.

[Kay Mask]

And yes before you scream "zomg contradiction!!!" I changed my mind on Kitsune after looking at their posts again

I was pretty out of it last weekend and again I apologise for that

This is towny, I think.

[Kay Mask]

Well, hold on.

Why did you spell "apologise" like that?

[Kay Mask]

Kitsune/Karma not likely both scum.

[Kay Mask]

No, Rogue One is shit

Rogue One was decent imo. It was better than the rest of the new movies for sure.

[Kay Mask]

Okay, I'm caught up.

Looks like I can't affect the execution on my own, but I'm fine with killing Katrielle anyway.

VOTE: Katrielle

[Kay Mask]

Happy now, Karma?

I was never going to let the deadline pass without voting, I just like to use the available time.

[Kay Mask]

I posted it because my browser highlighted it as not a word and I was curious. "Because I use British English" would have been a perfectly acceptable answer.

But in retrospect I guess you're right, obviously they do use British English and there's no reason to pry further.

[Kay Mask]

i agree! it's not rocket science people, be a lil more loose

VOTE: Katreille

scum's second account making a late and safe entrance?

Typo pings me as possible distancing but this Kim/Kat interaction does not look like theater

Okay but wait can we talk about this then, because this is the American spelling of theater.

[Kay Mask]

Yeah scrap my scrapping of that question. I definitely want an answer now.

[Kay Mask]

I still maintain that the advantage we get from openness outweights the risk of getting guessed. As stated before I've been pretty damn open about myself and I still haven't been guessed. It's harder than it seems to guess someone's alt, especially since you can never be sure that it isn't someone you don't know.

[Kay Mask]

What is this shit Kay, if you saw someone seem to drop a cop crumb and a tracker crumb and they were both weak and you were confused about it would you call it out, or do you normally have common sense and can't make some really simple principle translations for this setup

It's not the same thing; it's not as though pointing out someone is American or British is going to tell scum who they are. They can probably deduce timezone based on posting times anyway (admittedly as I said this is imperfect, but so is someone using American/British spellings).

[Kay Mask]

yeah there's like no reason to point that spelling choice out

No reason to point it out as scum, you mean?

Why would I open myself up to backlash like this when I can just silently note it?

[Kay Mask]

Like literally if you're arguing that it's pro-scum to reveal then you have to think I'm town for revealing it and thus making myself look bad rather than just sitting on it as I would as scum.

[Kay Mask]

You're next ten posts should be five scumtells that only work on americans and five scumtells that only work on brits if you want to even pretend you're playing for the town benefit right now.

What are you talking about?

You realize what I'm doing right? I'm trying to reveal a potential inconsistency, which would indicate a persona.

[Kay Mask]

Kay i think you were finding things to comment on to look towny end of day

So I commented on one thing twice?

[Kay Mask]

Saying two opposing things, no less.

[Kay Mask]

Like obviously I was looking for things to comment on. Obviously if I have thoughts I'm going to share them. Why is it that you think I don't point that out as town, when my philosophy as town (as is a lot of people's) is to say whatever I feel like saying?

[Kay Mask]

Yeah, you're probably right... I would like to assume that other people try to play similarly to I do, but actually that would be terrible, so it's probably for the best that they don't.

I do wish that I could talk to Komainu for real though instead of through the persona, because I have seen a few things from them that show pretty good insight.

[Kay Mask]

Let's try this, Kay, if you think I'm town, as a favor to me drop this and lynch Katrielle with me.
I'm probably the nightkill and when there's no babysitter left for this dumpster fire you can return to this mudwallowing

I am voting Katrielle. Regardless of where the Komainu thing went I didn't want to try to derail the wagons this late in the day.

[Kay Mask]

It's plurality, there's enough votes to kill anyone.

[Kay Mask]

sigh i really think we should be voting Kay here. she's done a number of things that make little sense as town. being so open about your main, not obscuring play style, and even asking for meta defenses doesn't make sense

I understand you think they don't make sense. But my question is, is it more likely that you and I have a different style and those things do make sense to me, or is it more likely that I'm scum intentionally doing conspicuously weird things I wouldn't do as town for whatever reason?

Kay could you answer my previous question about your reasons for town reading Kitsune vs. Kris?

Sorry, I must have missed it. Let me go back and look real quick.

[Kay Mask]

also why didn't you townread Kris for his brazen and very attention seeking gimmick if you're townreading Kitsune for their gimmicking?

Oh, I found it.

The reason is that Kris's gimmick was super flat and was at the expense of actually taking any kind of real tone. Kitsune is still using a tone and still interacting in a way that's accessible; they aren't hiding behind it the way Kris seemed to be. Kitsune's gimmicks are a part of their personality rather than being in lieu of a personality. Does that make sense?

[Kay Mask]

I'm sorry that you disagree with the way I played.

But if you think that I would know better than to act like myself as town, why would I not also know that as scum?

[Kay Mask]

Katrielle - antispewed
Kim - you're not that dumb
Kitsune - I'm not that dumb
Karma - I don't think they're that dumb even though I think their reads are poor
Komainu - MAYBE
Kirk - Not that dumb, would be such a disparate amount of effort to set alarms for the time zones and then play one of the accounts without any persona

So what, your idea is that if I'm scum my other account would have to be Komainu?

Why wouldn't you want to execute Komainu first, then?

[Kay Mask]

This is a post.

[Kay Mask]

Kirk, do you know who I am?

[Kay Mask]

The thing is that I didn't bother hiding from myself from the maybe ~20 people who would probably be able to figure me out anyway. In the case where one of those people is scum, there's probably little I can do to avoid being found out by them unless I completely obfuscate my game, which wouldn't be fun and also probably wouldn't let me really engage with the game very much.

It seems like Kim and Kitsune were the only ones who know me well enough. I'm fine with that, because that pretty much means Kitsune is town unless they're stone-cold bullshitting about knowing who I am.

[Kay Mask]

Of course if I were a wolf I could simply say 'yes' then not elaborate under a pretext of not revealing anything to the wolf in this delicate situation

I actually would not have believed you if you'd said yes You clearly haven't been playing like you do.

[Kay Mask]

Kitsune, you know my main?

Check my main's posts over the 4th of July weekend.

[Kay Mask]

I'm really struggling to imagine a world where Komainu is town.

[Kay Mask]

And Komainu just seems like, I don't know, the most persona-like of the remaining players.

[Kay Mask]

Obviously I know that isn't the case, but I think my interactions with Kitsune regarding the "apologise" thing are clearly not theater anyway.

[Kay Mask]

Speaking of which, Kitsune has an English test for you.

[Kay Mask]

They must have some reason to want to do it that way. It's not like there's any downside to it, anyway.

[Kay Mask]

Would that fear be assuaged if I got Kirk or Karma to agree that you should do the test? Then there's no denying that at least one townie wants you to do it.

[Kay Mask]

VOTE: Kirk

This is fine. I don't think there's a world where it makes sense to kill me before Kirk, anyway.